I have a character that is far too good of a tank. Her enemies usually can't hit her, and if they do, they hardly leave a scratch on her. She's so good at being a tank that her enemies just take a turn attacking. and next round they ignore her and go hit everyone else. The rest of the party soaks up all the damage. She'd do better without the heavy armor and the shield. Then she'd take tons of damage. She'd probably end up making death saves every single combat, but that's ok. Plenty of healing around. Get her stable with a healer's kit, then use magic and everything is sorted out fine.
This is the opposite of tanking. This is how you build a bad tank.
A tank's primary job is damage prevention, and as a corollary, mobility prevention, because mobility prevention prevents melee damage. You should be protecting the party. Being durable yourself is 100% ok if you're taking hits for the party, but you need a way to take hits for the party. Letting them run off and hit the party means you have failed as a tank.
I agree. A tank's purpose is to protect weaker players that are more susceptible to damage. You call yourself a tank, but you are not. You are a defense, the worst type of fighter available. As a tank oath of vengeance paladin, you have failed. Also, what level is this character and what level is this party.
I believe a Bear Totem Barbarian Hill Dwarf with custom origin from Tasha’s focusing CON > STR can be super tanky. You can go crazy and get Tough feat at level 4 or 8. It’s 145 HP considering CON 18 and Tough feat. You are basically resistant to everything, virtually getting 290 HP at level 10.
Make that hill dwarf a mountain dwarf, dip into sorrceror to cast shield on you before you rage, you'll be a walking tank
Shield can only be cast as a reaction and only lasts until your next turn.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Not convinced the gloves on Arcane Propulsion Armor are compatible with Thunder Gloves.
I'm pretty sure that they don't, since they qualify as weapons in their own right. Which also means that they go off of Strength, not Intelligence. Overall, Arcane Propulsion Armor isn't actually a good pick for Armorers.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Tortles are better the worse their core class's base AC, so Tortles don't make particularly good Fighters.
Tortles' AC isn't affected by their Dex Modifier, so as long as they aren't planning on using ranged weapons, they can dump-stat Dexterity and only have it affect their Dex saves. That's useful for any class (even fighter) if they only roll one or two good stats.
Tortles are better the worse their core class's base AC, so Tortles don't make particularly good Fighters.
Tortles' AC isn't affected by their Dex Modifier, so as long as they aren't planning on using ranged weapons, they can dump-stat Dexterity and only have it affect their Dex saves. That's useful for any class (even fighter) if they only roll one or two good stats.
Anyone who wears heavy armor can already do that.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Tortle shells are one of those problematic lack of level scaling things. At first level, the tortle's 17 AC beats Chain mail so it's pretty good. At fifth level, the tortle still has AC 17, the fighter probably now has Plate and thus pulls ahead. At 20th level, the tortle still has a base AC of 17 (though items such as cloak of protection likely boost that at the cost of attunement slots), while the fighter might be wearing +3 Plate for a base AC of 21, which can benefit from all the things the tortle might use because it doesn't cost attunement slots.
Yeah, the tortle's natural armor is best for classes that don't get proficiency with armor or a means to make up for it, primarily wizards and sorcerers.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
The Tortle's AC not being affected by Dexterity (including negative dexterity modifiers) makes it a good choice for multiple-attribute-dependent builds, because it reduces the negatives of dumping Dexterity.
I've been working on a build that combines two levels of Paladin with Death Domain Cleric for the rest of the levels to maximize damage on each hit, utilizing the Death Cleric's channel divinity, and the Paladin's divine smite. Unfortunately, the build requires strength, wisdom, and charisma to all be at least 13, which means dexterity and intelligence have to be the dump stats (the 8 and 10, if using the standard array), since strikers and tanks can't really afford to dump constitution.
But again, you can just wear Heavy Armor, so dumping Dex already wasn't a problem for you.
Rogues will be in a hurry to max Dexterity and will hit 17 AC in Light Armor, so they don't need to be Tortles. Fighters, Paladins, and several Ceric subclasses wear Heavy, so they don't need to be Tortles. Monks will probably start at 16 AC at level 1, and hit 18 AC by level 8, so they don't need to be Tortles (unless they're doing something funky like a Strength build, in which case Tortle helps a lot ). Most casters honestly don't need to be Tortles either, because they're mostly very SAD builds that have plenty of room for Dex, and the opportunity cost of using one first level slot to have Mage Armor up all day long is very small from Tier 2 onwards.
That really just leaves the medium armor wearers (Barbarian, Ranger, Blood Hunter, Druid, most Clerics, some Artificers) that want to dump Dex as the primary beneficiaries of Tortle shells. Tortle defense isn't great if you need a great AC, because its -1 from Plate, doesn't benefit from Armored Fighting style, and can't be enchanted. But its an excellent way for melee characters that want Strength AND a class-feature-DC ability score maximized (Blood Hunters) to have one less thing to worry about, or for some low-dex caster builds that focus on casting score, constitution, and something other than dex (for whatever reason).
Armorer X(the melee version)/ echo knight 3 to use the disadvantage punches at range freely.
Or a Bugbear Armorer 5/ Rune Knight 3 that grows to Huge size by combining Giant's Might with Enlarge/Reduce. Who needs an echo when you can just punch the whole room from where you're standing 😆
Armorer X(the melee version)/ echo knight 3 to use the disadvantage punches at range freely.
Or a Bugbear Armorer 5/ Rune Knight 3 that grows to Huge size by combining Giant's Might with Enlarge/Reduce. Who needs an echo when you can just punch the whole room from where you're standing 😆
True, only difference is that with the echo you cant get punched back =P especially with sentinel feat
or if you can gain the elemental shard earth and the outer realm shard chaotic as a clock sorc X/ Fighter 1 (starting class) hill dwarf you can be a very good tank, and do a half decent barbarian impersonation XD
Armorer X(the melee version)/ echo knight 3 to use the disadvantage punches at range freely.
Or a Bugbear Armorer 5/ Rune Knight 3 that grows to Huge size by combining Giant's Might with Enlarge/Reduce. Who needs an echo when you can just punch the whole room from where you're standing 😆
True, only difference is that with the echo you cant get punched back =P especially with sentinel feat
Oh the echo knight build is much better. Combines so well with the whole "you have disadvantage on attacking my friends" mechanic. The Bugbear build is just for chuckles. All he does is flail his big dumb gumby arms. Poor guy.
Armorer X(the melee version)/ echo knight 3 to use the disadvantage punches at range freely.
Or a Bugbear Armorer 5/ Rune Knight 3 that grows to Huge size by combining Giant's Might with Enlarge/Reduce. Who needs an echo when you can just punch the whole room from where you're standing 😆
True, only difference is that with the echo you cant get punched back =P especially with sentinel feat
Oh the echo knight build is much better. Combines so well with the whole "you have disadvantage on attacking my friends" mechanic. The Bugbear build is just for chuckles. All he does is flail his big dumb gumby arms. Poor guy.
No no no, You must call him by his proper title... Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Balloon Man! or WWIAFBM for short. XD
Ancestral guardian barbarian with the mobile feat.
Ancestral protectors: The ancestral guardian while raging can designate a creature on its turn when it hits with an attack of any kind, from any distance. Could be your fist, could be a reach melee weapon, could be a longbow from quite far a way. That creature now has disadvantage on all attack rolls vs anything that isn’t the barbarian. This gives the creature disadvantage vs creatures, objects, or literally any other possible target. Furthermore if that affected creature targets a creature and still hits through disadvantage, all of the attacks damage is now resisted.
Spirit shield: at level 6, the ancestral guardian can use its reaction to reduce damage a creature takes so long as the barbarian is raging, is within 30ft of the other creature, and can see that creature. This can further reduce damage that’s probably already being resisted from an attack. This can also reduce damage from all non attack roll sources, such as failed saving throws or perhaps even fall damage.
an ancestral guardian with the mobile feat and perhaps a reach weapon has increased freedom to choose to go in to weapon range, choose to recklessly attack if necessary to ensure its debuff lands, and retreat 15-30ft away. The distance partially protects the barbarian if they did use reckless attack. It’s also close enough to be able to “rinse and repeat” while making sure your party is in range of your spirit shield feature.
these effects can drastically increase your parties effective hitpoints, and allows for almost any party member to confidently tank if necessary.
a centaur PC would have 40 base movement, mobile would add 10 ft, and barbarians fast movement would add a further 10ft at level 5 for a total of 60ft of movement speed. The 30ft movement speed back and forth would easily activate your centaur “charge” and “hooves” features which allows for a bonus action hoof attack without the need for polearm master feat. This further increases the odds of landing at least one attack vs the target creature to allow for ancestral protectors to activate. Being a “fey” creature would also slightly protect you from spellcasting that affects the mind or incapacitate you, as some of those features and spells target humanoids specifically.
tashas instinctive pounce feature granting half movement bonus on rage activation increases the likelihood of this tactic being effective on turn one, or on subsequent turns if you have to reactivate your rage feature.
interesting build variation is perhaps choosing a light foot halfling, dipping rogue for sneak die and cunning action using a rapier or short sword combo, and hiding behind a party member with your bonus action. Maybe 3 levels for swashbuckler, to be a strength-buckler and move in and out of spaces with less chance for opportunity attacks against you.
I honestly really like the idea Of using rogues as defensive machines. With High Con you can get a reasonable amount of hp and with uncanny dodge and evasion I think it's great. After taking 7th level in rogue I would switch to barbarian to reduce damage further and go to third level to become a bear totem barb. The race I would Pick for this is half elf for reasons I will describe later and I would Put your +1s into con and Dex. After that I think paladin is a good call To get some auras and to get bonus to saving throws at 6th level. I would take oath of vengeance to get the crit if you are facing one foe. I don't know about most campaigns but in ours when we went late game the Spell casters were very common and we made a lot of saving throws. I Know this is taking you into level 16 already but I think it is useful If you want to have high charisma to Take 3 levels in hexblade warlock to switch your weapons modifier to charisma. (also to take pact of the blade with a greatsword) The reason for doing this is to pick up elven accuracy and than with the advantage from Your oath of vengeance you can take a nice 27% crit chance to give your character offensive power. This is the reason for choosing half elf.The last level I would take is war cleric just because, it's war cleric. I also think It is interesting to weave all of this into character development and backstory. You will also have enough spell slots to smite during your rage. You will also need great weapons master To do extra damage and with triple advantage the -5 shouldn't be to bad If it is single combat.
I agree. A tank's purpose is to protect weaker players that are more susceptible to damage. You call yourself a tank, but you are not. You are a defense, the worst type of fighter available. As a tank oath of vengeance paladin, you have failed. Also, what level is this character and what level is this party.
SIGNATURE REDACTED
Shield can only be cast as a reaction and only lasts until your next turn.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I'm pretty sure that they don't, since they qualify as weapons in their own right. Which also means that they go off of Strength, not Intelligence. Overall, Arcane Propulsion Armor isn't actually a good pick for Armorers.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Tortle Echo knight
Echo knight gets killed by enemy barbarian
You: haha you only killed my echo
Tortles are better the worse their core class's base AC, so Tortles don't make particularly good Fighters.
Tortles' AC isn't affected by their Dex Modifier, so as long as they aren't planning on using ranged weapons, they can dump-stat Dexterity and only have it affect their Dex saves. That's useful for any class (even fighter) if they only roll one or two good stats.
Anyone who wears heavy armor can already do that.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Tortle shells are one of those problematic lack of level scaling things. At first level, the tortle's 17 AC beats Chain mail so it's pretty good. At fifth level, the tortle still has AC 17, the fighter probably now has Plate and thus pulls ahead. At 20th level, the tortle still has a base AC of 17 (though items such as cloak of protection likely boost that at the cost of attunement slots), while the fighter might be wearing +3 Plate for a base AC of 21, which can benefit from all the things the tortle might use because it doesn't cost attunement slots.
Yeah, the tortle's natural armor is best for classes that don't get proficiency with armor or a means to make up for it, primarily wizards and sorcerers.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
The Tortle's AC not being affected by Dexterity (including negative dexterity modifiers) makes it a good choice for multiple-attribute-dependent builds, because it reduces the negatives of dumping Dexterity.
I've been working on a build that combines two levels of Paladin with Death Domain Cleric for the rest of the levels to maximize damage on each hit, utilizing the Death Cleric's channel divinity, and the Paladin's divine smite. Unfortunately, the build requires strength, wisdom, and charisma to all be at least 13, which means dexterity and intelligence have to be the dump stats (the 8 and 10, if using the standard array), since strikers and tanks can't really afford to dump constitution.
But again, you can just wear Heavy Armor, so dumping Dex already wasn't a problem for you.
Rogues will be in a hurry to max Dexterity and will hit 17 AC in Light Armor, so they don't need to be Tortles. Fighters, Paladins, and several Ceric subclasses wear Heavy, so they don't need to be Tortles. Monks will probably start at 16 AC at level 1, and hit 18 AC by level 8, so they don't need to be Tortles (unless they're doing something funky like a Strength build, in which case Tortle helps a lot ). Most casters honestly don't need to be Tortles either, because they're mostly very SAD builds that have plenty of room for Dex, and the opportunity cost of using one first level slot to have Mage Armor up all day long is very small from Tier 2 onwards.
That really just leaves the medium armor wearers (Barbarian, Ranger, Blood Hunter, Druid, most Clerics, some Artificers) that want to dump Dex as the primary beneficiaries of Tortle shells. Tortle defense isn't great if you need a great AC, because its -1 from Plate, doesn't benefit from Armored Fighting style, and can't be enchanted. But its an excellent way for melee characters that want Strength AND a class-feature-DC ability score maximized (Blood Hunters) to have one less thing to worry about, or for some low-dex caster builds that focus on casting score, constitution, and something other than dex (for whatever reason).
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Conquest paladin 7/ undead warlock X to keep enemies susceptible to frightened at bay.
Armorer X(the melee version)/ echo knight 3 to use the disadvantage punches at range freely.
Or a Bugbear Armorer 5/ Rune Knight 3 that grows to Huge size by combining Giant's Might with Enlarge/Reduce. Who needs an echo when you can just punch the whole room from where you're standing 😆
True, only difference is that with the echo you cant get punched back =P especially with sentinel feat
or if you can gain the elemental shard earth and the outer realm shard chaotic as a clock sorc X/ Fighter 1 (starting class) hill dwarf you can be a very good tank, and do a half decent barbarian impersonation XD
Oh the echo knight build is much better. Combines so well with the whole "you have disadvantage on attacking my friends" mechanic. The Bugbear build is just for chuckles. All he does is flail his big dumb gumby arms. Poor guy.
No no no, You must call him by his proper title... Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Balloon Man! or WWIAFBM for short. XD
Ancestral guardian barbarian with the mobile feat.
Ancestral protectors: The ancestral guardian while raging can designate a creature on its turn when it hits with an attack of any kind, from any distance. Could be your fist, could be a reach melee weapon, could be a longbow from quite far a way. That creature now has disadvantage on all attack rolls vs anything that isn’t the barbarian. This gives the creature disadvantage vs creatures, objects, or literally any other possible target. Furthermore if that affected creature targets a creature and still hits through disadvantage, all of the attacks damage is now resisted.
Spirit shield: at level 6, the ancestral guardian can use its reaction to reduce damage a creature takes so long as the barbarian is raging, is within 30ft of the other creature, and can see that creature. This can further reduce damage that’s probably already being resisted from an attack. This can also reduce damage from all non attack roll sources, such as failed saving throws or perhaps even fall damage.
an ancestral guardian with the mobile feat and perhaps a reach weapon has increased freedom to choose to go in to weapon range, choose to recklessly attack if necessary to ensure its debuff lands, and retreat 15-30ft away. The distance partially protects the barbarian if they did use reckless attack. It’s also close enough to be able to “rinse and repeat” while making sure your party is in range of your spirit shield feature.
these effects can drastically increase your parties effective hitpoints, and allows for almost any party member to confidently tank if necessary.
a centaur PC would have 40 base movement, mobile would add 10 ft, and barbarians fast movement would add a further 10ft at level 5 for a total of 60ft of movement speed. The 30ft movement speed back and forth would easily activate your centaur “charge” and “hooves” features which allows for a bonus action hoof attack without the need for polearm master feat. This further increases the odds of landing at least one attack vs the target creature to allow for ancestral protectors to activate.
Being a “fey” creature would also slightly protect you from spellcasting that affects the mind or incapacitate you, as some of those features and spells target humanoids specifically.
tashas instinctive pounce feature granting half movement bonus on rage activation increases the likelihood of this tactic being effective on turn one, or on subsequent turns if you have to reactivate your rage feature.
interesting build variation is perhaps choosing a light foot halfling, dipping rogue for sneak die and cunning action using a rapier or short sword combo, and hiding behind a party member with your bonus action. Maybe 3 levels for swashbuckler, to be a strength-buckler and move in and out of spaces with less chance for opportunity attacks against you.
I honestly really like the idea Of using rogues as defensive machines. With High Con you can get a reasonable amount of hp and with uncanny dodge and evasion I think it's great. After taking 7th level in rogue I would switch to barbarian to reduce damage further and go to third level to become a bear totem barb. The race I would Pick for this is half elf for reasons I will describe later and I would Put your +1s into con and Dex. After that I think paladin is a good call To get some auras and to get bonus to saving throws at 6th level. I would take oath of vengeance to get the crit if you are facing one foe. I don't know about most campaigns but in ours when we went late game the Spell casters were very common and we made a lot of saving throws. I Know this is taking you into level 16 already but I think it is useful If you want to have high charisma to Take 3 levels in hexblade warlock to switch your weapons modifier to charisma. (also to take pact of the blade with a greatsword) The reason for doing this is to pick up elven accuracy and than with the advantage from Your oath of vengeance you can take a nice 27% crit chance to give your character offensive power. This is the reason for choosing half elf.The last level I would take is war cleric just because, it's war cleric. I also think It is interesting to weave all of this into character development and backstory. You will also have enough spell slots to smite during your rage. You will also need great weapons master To do extra damage and with triple advantage the -5 shouldn't be to bad If it is single combat.
Very few GMs would let a character multiclass that many times.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.