I meant “and still give them a unique set of traits.”
Having rules for hybrids is not a bad idea in general, it's just more complicated than you seem to realize.
I dunno, I think it might actually be a bad idea in general.
You think species should be entirely cosmetic, so you might not be the most unbiased opinion in the room.
.. aaand? Is there such a thing as an unbiased opinion on this topic? Does me having an opinion somehow invalidate my thoughts on the topic? Like what's your point?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Literally everyone who read the Character Origins UA knew this was coming. And we all knew that the goal isn't to eradicate half-elves and half-orcs from the game, rather it's to make half-anything (humanoid) possible. This is just the latest grist for the "WotC bad" outrage mill.
Personally I'm disappointed that half-elves are being dropped as an official template, because I thought it had a good set of stats to reflect the in-between state of half elves. They've got the pointed ears and subtle magic stuff to them that sets them apart from humans, but the lack of trancing and relatively rapid aging likewise sets them apart from elves. Not particularly invested in half-orcs, they mostly just existed because orcs themselves were initially a hard antagonist race.
I do kinda understand WotC deciding that attempting to codify even the broad strokes of the biracial experience in a fantasy game's lore is an iffy look, especially with the scrutiny they've received lately, but I hope the final description at least mentions considering if being different set such a character apart when the player is working out their origin.
Why not leave the traditional templates in there and then add a third template that describes how to create half-other combos. Half-elves and half-orcs have been a part of the game for decades, I feel they should be prevalent enough to warrant their own entries in the lore.
Why not leave the traditional templates in there and then add a third template that describes how to create half-other combos. Half-elves and half-orcs have been a part of the game for decades, I feel they should be prevalent enough to warrant their own entries in the lore.
I'd be fine with them including "EXAMPLE SPECIES: HALF-ELF" below that section so that it's "officially" in the book in that respect, without truly being its own entry like it is now.
Why not leave the traditional templates in there and then add a third template that describes how to create half-other combos.
Because they don't want to call them 'half-X' (they could rename them... but people would probably complain about the new name)
Because neither is any sensible way a combo (both have traits that come from neither parent).
Now, they could certainly add a section on combos, which could include the traditional combos (human-elf and human-orc), but I doubt it would be more than adding a note along the lines of "At the DMs option, a character can mix and match features from two different species; work with your DM to come up with an appropriate combination. Some examples:".
if the revised PH includes boring half-n-half rules, then ask for a separate book to spell it out all fancy-like. i imagine they'd be happy to sell a more complicated 'trait A plus trait B' system with lore and maps and migration routes. and revised half-elves/-orcs, why not. but only if it looks like it'd sell.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
tell them you don't like features disappeared quietly in the night: providefeedback!
I don't like this change, but really, it's not worth losing sleep over. Yes, I have primarily played half elves since I started playing in the 80s. Picking elf, then customizing it to say half-elf on my character sheet though is no different than picking Rapier and editing it to say Gladius on my roman legionary character. While it's not a change I like, it's not worth getting spun up over.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
if the revised PH includes boring half-n-half rules, then ask for a separate book to spell it out all fancy-like. i imagine they'd be happy to sell a more complicated 'trait A plus trait B' system with lore and maps and migration routes. and revised half-elves/-orcs, why not. but only if it looks like it'd sell.
All they really need is a level 1 feat that lets you grab a trait from the other parent. A species trait is roughly equivalent to a 1st-level feat (see Human.) This will let us make mechanical hybrids without them having to worry about a lot of time spent on balancing since the PC is paying for it with their feat. And half-humans will be the most common hybrid since they have an extra feat to spare. It's win-win!
if the revised PH includes boring half-n-half rules, then ask for a separate book to spell it out all fancy-like. i imagine they'd be happy to sell a more complicated 'trait A plus trait B' system with lore and maps and migration routes. and revised half-elves/-orcs, why not. but only if it looks like it'd sell.
All they really need is a level 1 feat that lets you grab a trait from the other parent. A species trait is roughly equivalent to a 1st-level feat (see Human.) This will let us make mechanical hybrids without them having to worry about a lot of time spent on balancing since the PC is paying for it with their feat. And half-humans will be the most common hybrid since they have an extra feat to spare. It's win-win!
Feat:
Late Bloomer 1st Level feat
Prerequisite: None Repeatable: No
Another part of your Ancestry becomes more pronounce and noticeable. It can come accompanied by sudden physical changes or changes that manifest slowly over the rest of your life. This change isn’t always physical. Sometimes you just realize you have a talent or natural ability your grandparent has that you believed you did not. Choose another playable species and you gain all their traits. Your creature type, size, speed, and lifespan do not change.
All their traits would be a bit too much, imo. For one thing, you could stack up a pretty sizeable list of one off spells by combining races like elves and tieflings. The "speed does not change" part could have some wonky interactions with things like Flight, depending how that's structured.
Yeah spells would easily be the best min/max reason to use a feat like this. The reason I made it so speed doesn’t change is to make sure no one could use it to improve something like a fly speed. If your first species doesn’t have a fly speed you can’t use this feat to gain one. I guess I should have worded it, “You do not gain the creature type, size, any speeds (unless they come from a separate named trait that temporarily bestows the speed), or lifespan of this 2nd species.” That way you would gain the One DND Dragonborn Wings for flight, or 5e Tabaxi burst of movement, but you wouldn’t gain flight from a 5e Owlin and Aarakokra, or swim speed of a Triton as a second species with this feat. You could have those as first species and have those speeds. So an Aarakokra/Tabaxi could have some crazy flying burst speed but if a DM is allowing that combo it’s already a wild game.
Every time you have to hedge around a rule/feat with extra verbiage to try and preclude weird undesirable edge cases, the more "work with your DM to decide which mix of traits from your parent species would be best for your character" is the appropriate answer. The way it's always been the appropriate answer.
if the revised PH includes boring half-n-half rules, then ask for a separate book to spell it out all fancy-like. i imagine they'd be happy to sell a more complicated 'trait A plus trait B' system with lore and maps and migration routes. and revised half-elves/-orcs, why not. but only if it looks like it'd sell.
All they really need is a level 1 feat that lets you grab a trait from the other parent. A species trait is roughly equivalent to a 1st-level feat (see Human.) This will let us make mechanical hybrids without them having to worry about a lot of time spent on balancing since the PC is paying for it with their feat. And half-humans will be the most common hybrid since they have an extra feat to spare. It's win-win!
Feat:
Late Bloomer 1st Level feat
Prerequisite: None Repeatable: No
Another part of your Ancestry becomes more pronounce and noticeable. It can come accompanied by sudden physical changes or changes that manifest slowly over the rest of your life. This change isn’t always physical. Sometimes you just realize you have a talent or natural ability your grandparent has that you believed you did not. Choose another playable species and you gain all their traits. Your creature type, size, speed, and lifespan do not change.
One single trait/feature, not all. I would also possibly restrict it to only being selectable at 1st level.
And I would call this one something like "Hybrid Versatility" rather than "Late Bloomer" personally.
if the revised PH includes boring half-n-half rules, then ask for a separate book to spell it out all fancy-like. i imagine they'd be happy to sell a more complicated 'trait A plus trait B' system with lore and maps and migration routes. and revised half-elves/-orcs, why not. but only if it looks like it'd sell.
All they really need is a level 1 feat that lets you grab a trait from the other parent. A species trait is roughly equivalent to a 1st-level feat (see Human.) This will let us make mechanical hybrids without them having to worry about a lot of time spent on balancing since the PC is paying for it with their feat. And half-humans will be the most common hybrid since they have an extra feat to spare. It's win-win!
Feat:
Late Bloomer 1st Level feat
Prerequisite: None Repeatable: No
Another part of your Ancestry becomes more pronounce and noticeable. It can come accompanied by sudden physical changes or changes that manifest slowly over the rest of your life. This change isn’t always physical. Sometimes you just realize you have a talent or natural ability your grandparent has that you believed you did not. Choose another playable species and you gain all their traits. Your creature type, size, speed, and lifespan do not change.
One single trait/feature, not all. I would also possibly restrict it to only being selectable at 1st level.
And I would call this one something like "Hybrid Versatility" rather than "Late Bloomer" personally.
Err no, there's enough people I've personally talked to who are uncomfortable with "hybrid" being used to describe people, so that wouldn't be recommendable.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
If you have to do this as a feat rather than just letting it be the domain of a DM to handle for their particular table the way it should be, the name of the feat is 'Diverse Heritage'. No need to be weird with it.
Every time you have to hedge around a rule/feat with extra verbiage to try and preclude weird undesirable edge cases, the more "work with your DM to decide which mix of traits from your parent species would be best for your character" is the appropriate answer. The way it's always been the appropriate answer.
They need to do something because work with your DM isn’t always going to have the best results. Not everyone likes to homebrew and since they plan on supporting and growing AL they need something that works for it.
If you have to do this as a feat rather than just letting it be the domain of a DM to handle for their particular table the way it should be, the name of the feat is 'Diverse Heritage'. No need to be weird with it.
The reason for the late bloomer name is to make the Feat make sense in the event that someone takes this feat at a level other than 1. Technically all characters had lives before achieving lvl 1 so I chose Late Bloomer to avoid a bunch of backlash comments about how a feat doesn’t work because they should have had the traits since birth. I’m okay with any name.
Every time you have to hedge around a rule/feat with extra verbiage to try and preclude weird undesirable edge cases, the more "work with your DM to decide which mix of traits from your parent species would be best for your character" is the appropriate answer. The way it's always been the appropriate answer.
They need to do something because work with your DM isn’t always going to have the best results.
Honestly, the solution without a 'work with your DM' stage is what they already have in the playtest document.
The reason for the late bloomer name is to make the Feat make sense in the event that someone takes this feat at a level other than 1. Technically all characters had lives before achieving lvl 1 so I chose Late Bloomer to avoid a bunch of backlash comments about how a feat doesn’t work because they should have had the traits since birth. I’m okay with any name.
You'll be inviting far fewer problems if you just require it to be taken at level 1 and you can only ever take it once.
.. aaand? Is there such a thing as an unbiased opinion on this topic? Does me having an opinion somehow invalidate my thoughts on the topic? Like what's your point?
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Literally everyone who read the Character Origins UA knew this was coming. And we all knew that the goal isn't to eradicate half-elves and half-orcs from the game, rather it's to make half-anything (humanoid) possible. This is just the latest grist for the "WotC bad" outrage mill.
Personally I'm disappointed that half-elves are being dropped as an official template, because I thought it had a good set of stats to reflect the in-between state of half elves. They've got the pointed ears and subtle magic stuff to them that sets them apart from humans, but the lack of trancing and relatively rapid aging likewise sets them apart from elves. Not particularly invested in half-orcs, they mostly just existed because orcs themselves were initially a hard antagonist race.
I do kinda understand WotC deciding that attempting to codify even the broad strokes of the biracial experience in a fantasy game's lore is an iffy look, especially with the scrutiny they've received lately, but I hope the final description at least mentions considering if being different set such a character apart when the player is working out their origin.
Why not leave the traditional templates in there and then add a third template that describes how to create half-other combos. Half-elves and half-orcs have been a part of the game for decades, I feel they should be prevalent enough to warrant their own entries in the lore.
I'd be fine with them including "EXAMPLE SPECIES: HALF-ELF" below that section so that it's "officially" in the book in that respect, without truly being its own entry like it is now.
Now, they could certainly add a section on combos, which could include the traditional combos (human-elf and human-orc), but I doubt it would be more than adding a note along the lines of "At the DMs option, a character can mix and match features from two different species; work with your DM to come up with an appropriate combination. Some examples:".
if the revised PH includes boring half-n-half rules, then ask for a separate book to spell it out all fancy-like. i imagine they'd be happy to sell a more complicated 'trait A plus trait B' system with lore and maps and migration routes. and revised half-elves/-orcs, why not. but only if it looks like it'd sell.
unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
tell them you don't like features disappeared quietly in the night: provide feedback!
I don't like this change, but really, it's not worth losing sleep over. Yes, I have primarily played half elves since I started playing in the 80s. Picking elf, then customizing it to say half-elf on my character sheet though is no different than picking Rapier and editing it to say Gladius on my roman legionary character. While it's not a change I like, it's not worth getting spun up over.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
All they really need is a level 1 feat that lets you grab a trait from the other parent. A species trait is roughly equivalent to a 1st-level feat (see Human.) This will let us make mechanical hybrids without them having to worry about a lot of time spent on balancing since the PC is paying for it with their feat. And half-humans will be the most common hybrid since they have an extra feat to spare. It's win-win!
Feat:
Late Bloomer
1st Level feat
Prerequisite: None
Repeatable: No
Another part of your Ancestry becomes more pronounce and noticeable. It can come accompanied by sudden physical changes or changes that manifest slowly over the rest of your life. This change isn’t always physical. Sometimes you just realize you have a talent or natural ability your grandparent has that you believed you did not. Choose another playable species and you gain all their traits. Your creature type, size, speed, and lifespan do not change.
All their traits would be a bit too much, imo. For one thing, you could stack up a pretty sizeable list of one off spells by combining races like elves and tieflings. The "speed does not change" part could have some wonky interactions with things like Flight, depending how that's structured.
Yeah spells would easily be the best min/max reason to use a feat like this. The reason I made it so speed doesn’t change is to make sure no one could use it to improve something like a fly speed. If your first species doesn’t have a fly speed you can’t use this feat to gain one. I guess I should have worded it, “You do not gain the creature type, size, any speeds (unless they come from a separate named trait that temporarily bestows the speed), or lifespan of this 2nd species.” That way you would gain the One DND Dragonborn Wings for flight, or 5e Tabaxi burst of movement, but you wouldn’t gain flight from a 5e Owlin and Aarakokra, or swim speed of a Triton as a second species with this feat. You could have those as first species and have those speeds. So an Aarakokra/Tabaxi could have some crazy flying burst speed but if a DM is allowing that combo it’s already a wild game.
Every time you have to hedge around a rule/feat with extra verbiage to try and preclude weird undesirable edge cases, the more "work with your DM to decide which mix of traits from your parent species would be best for your character" is the appropriate answer. The way it's always been the appropriate answer.
Please do not contact or message me.
One single trait/feature, not all. I would also possibly restrict it to only being selectable at 1st level.
And I would call this one something like "Hybrid Versatility" rather than "Late Bloomer" personally.
Err no, there's enough people I've personally talked to who are uncomfortable with "hybrid" being used to describe people, so that wouldn't be recommendable.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
"Versatile Lineage?"
"Amalgamated Aspect?"
"Compound Expression?"
"Blended Ancestry?"
If you have to do this as a feat rather than just letting it be the domain of a DM to handle for their particular table the way it should be, the name of the feat is 'Diverse Heritage'. No need to be weird with it.
Please do not contact or message me.
Diverse Heritage works for me!
They need to do something because work with your DM isn’t always going to have the best results. Not everyone likes to homebrew and since they plan on supporting and growing AL they need something that works for it.
One trait would not be worth a feat.
I’m fine with all the name choices
The reason for the late bloomer name is to make the Feat make sense in the event that someone takes this feat at a level other than 1. Technically all characters had lives before achieving lvl 1 so I chose Late Bloomer to avoid a bunch of backlash comments about how a feat doesn’t work because they should have had the traits since birth. I’m okay with any name.
Honestly, the solution without a 'work with your DM' stage is what they already have in the playtest document.
You'll be inviting far fewer problems if you just require it to be taken at level 1 and you can only ever take it once.