The keyword there is “enough.” It only has to be just rigorous enough to serve the purpose. If every species had 1 trait specifically balanced to be swappable, that would be enough. Not every trait has to be swappable, just one for each species.
If you think it's easy... demonstrate? Just go through the list of species in the first playtest packet and list each one.
Sure. Pay me to do Crawford’s job for him and I will.
If it's complicated enough that you feel the need to be paid, it's too complicated to actually include.
That’s the worst argument I have ever heard. WTF do we pay WotC for then?!? I guess Crawford doesn’t deserve to be paid either then? Or you, you don’t deserve to be paid for your work?
Then it should be no problem for you to make a new edition in its entirety right now, right?
I'm not saying a revised edition in general should be easy -- but rules for hybrid characters aren't even a necessary component, so if it takes real work, the default answer is "leave it out of the book".
Then it should be no problem for you to make a new edition in its entirety right now, right?
I'm not saying a revised edition in general should be easy -- but rules for hybrid characters aren't even a necessary component, so if it takes real work, the default answer is "leave it out of the book".
Everything that takes real work should be omitted from the book then? WTF?!?
That’s the worst argument I have ever heard. WTF do we pay WotC for then?!?
You're talking about something that will be one paragraph of text in a book of something like 256 page, and all I'm expecting is rough draft level detail. If it takes an hour to work out, it's too complicated to be worth its word count.
That’s the worst argument I have ever heard. WTF do we pay WotC for then?!?
You're talking about something that will be one paragraph of text in a book of something like 256 page, and all I'm expecting is rough draft level detail. If it takes an hour to work out, it's too complicated to be worth its word count.
That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. If it takes more than an hour to go through every race in the book and balance one trait for each against each other that’s too much work?!?
Then it should be no problem for you to make a new edition in its entirety right now, right?
I'm not saying a revised edition in general should be easy -- but rules for hybrid characters aren't even a necessary component, so if it takes real work, the default answer is "leave it out of the book".
You say this like it's common knowledge. "Naturally, everybody in the world knows that effort should not be put into making products if it can be avoided by simply having less content." Like, really, where are you going with this?
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Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
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Maybe you don't remember a time when the rules capped women's strength scores lower than men's? And that's just one example, I can literally link you to more, but having this conversation one more time is exhausting.
Of course I don't remember those times, you've got to be in your 60s to actually remember experiencing that. Though I'd argue that was more or less a technical inconvenience for minmaxers in the same way that some races were plainly better or worse than others stat-wise. Bad balance borne out of silly decision.
Nothing stopping you being old enough to remember that. I'm 54, I'm on these forums, and I *definately* played that edition back in the day. Mind you, a couple of girls joined our gaming group at one point, and they wanted to play Red Sonja-style characters, so we ignored the gender-based rules. Did use the racial level and stat caps, though I only remember hitting the level caps a couple of times before was got the Unearthed Arcana book that raised the level caps.
We even got to experience early 80's Canadian racism, as one player was an Algonquin tribal member. We tried to go to a 'local' D&D club's tournament game, and it didn't go well. I heard a lot of Quebecois swearwords that day. None of which I remember anymore, unfortunately. As a group we decided to never do that again.
I haven’t participated in this or other threads about the “half” comments as I don’t feel it’s my place to comment I do feel that WotC needs to say something about this. Maybe they have and I haven’t seen it.
But when I see articles and YouTube channels (non-political and political leaning alike) saying that WotC does not want mixed races in D&D because mixing races is racist (which I don’t think WotC is saying since they specifically gave guidance on how to create a character of varying parentage In a previous UA) I really think they need to make a statement clarifying their stance.
I haven’t participated in this or other threads about the “half” comments as I don’t feel it’s my place to comment I do feel that WotC needs to say something about this. Maybe they have and I haven’t seen it.
But when I see articles and YouTube channels (non-political and political leaning alike) saying that WotC does not want mixed races in D&D because mixing races is racist (which I don’t think WotC is saying since they specifically gave guidance on how to create a character of varying parentage In a previous UA) I really think they need to make a statement clarifying their stance.
Those are click bait YouTubers and some of them are racist. They are doing that on purpose. WotC literally gave guidance on how to play a mixed race character in one DnD. It just a boring option that many don’t like.
I haven’t participated in this or other threads about the “half” comments as I don’t feel it’s my place to comment I do feel that WotC needs to say something about this. Maybe they have and I haven’t seen it.
But when I see articles and YouTube channels (non-political and political leaning alike) saying that WotC does not want mixed races in D&D because mixing races is racist (which I don’t think WotC is saying since they specifically gave guidance on how to create a character of varying parentage In a previous UA) I really think they need to make a statement clarifying their stance.
Those are click bait YouTubers and some of them are racist. They are doing that on purpose. WotC literally gave guidance on how to play a mixed race character in one DnD. It just a boring option that many don’t like.
I understand that the UA had advice on handling this, I mentioned that in my post. I'm not opposed to their advice, I've given similar advice (long before 1D&D was a thing) on posts were someone wants to make, for example, a Dwarf/Gnome mix. I only bring this up because I've seen this on sites that are not even about D&D and they are misrepresenting what WotC was getting at. And in one instance, the YouTuber is actually mixed race, so I would hesitate to call them racist.
The problem is that Wizards did clarify their stance. They've been uncomfortable for years with what the existing half-elf and half-orc blocks say about mixed-heritage people, how each stat block posits the mixed-heritage critter it portrays as a horrible societal outcast shunned by everyone for nothing whatsoever save the crime of Not Being Pure. They'd rather handle mixed heritages differently in the new books, so they're going to do so. People have taken that to mean "WIZARDS SAYS HALF-ELVES ARE RACIST!" rather than "Wizards says their current portrayal of half-elves is not up to snuff and they'd like to try a new, less fraught portrayal of half-elves, half-orcs, and half-anything-elses in the new books."
Because people are actively hunting for reasons to make Wizards out to be awful at everything and horrible people trying to make everything worse. Remember, this is the same crowd that deliberately and mmaliciously misconstrued and deprived of context Kyle Brink's comments on wanting to make room for a more diverse array of leadership within the business. They've already decided Wizards is SuperMegaUltraHyperRacist and no amount of actual evidence will change their minds.
I would note that "half-elf" and "half-orc" are inherently problematic because they fail to mention what the other half is, and terms such as 'halfbreed' have generally been pejoratives. Having mixed characters isn't inherently racist, but the specific background and terminology used in D&D is problematic.
I would note that "half-elf" and "half-orc" are inherently problematic because they fail to mention what the other half is, and terms such as 'halfbreed' have generally been pejoratives. Having mixed characters isn't inherently racist, but the specific background and terminology used in D&D is problematic.
Then isn’t that a good reason to change the background and terminology?
Background: removed, in favor of letting the player or DM determine something narratively interesting. (Why would everyone of the same mixed heritage have the same background, anyway?)
Terminology: "half-<non-human-thing>" replaced with "Children of Different Humanoid Kinds" or whatever they're ultimately going with. To illustrate that the "half-<thing>" terminology is wildly insufficient to convey the idea (insufficient without invoking a very racist trope, that is).
The idea that "species must not be cosmetic" is not exactly unbiased, either.
Me, I don't think anything needs to be purely cosmetic, but I sure as hell don't want the system forcing "how I was born" to be gamified. It's a bad tradition, no matter how traditional.
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That’s the worst argument I have ever heard. WTF do we pay WotC for then?!? I guess Crawford doesn’t deserve to be paid either then? Or you, you don’t deserve to be paid for your work?
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I'm not saying a revised edition in general should be easy -- but rules for hybrid characters aren't even a necessary component, so if it takes real work, the default answer is "leave it out of the book".
Everything that takes real work should be omitted from the book then? WTF?!?
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You're talking about something that will be one paragraph of text in a book of something like 256 page, and all I'm expecting is rough draft level detail. If it takes an hour to work out, it's too complicated to be worth its word count.
That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. If it takes more than an hour to go through every race in the book and balance one trait for each against each other that’s too much work?!?
Whatever you say chief.
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You say this like it's common knowledge. "Naturally, everybody in the world knows that effort should not be put into making products if it can be avoided by simply having less content." Like, really, where are you going with this?
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
Nothing stopping you being old enough to remember that. I'm 54, I'm on these forums, and I *definately* played that edition back in the day. Mind you, a couple of girls joined our gaming group at one point, and they wanted to play Red Sonja-style characters, so we ignored the gender-based rules. Did use the racial level and stat caps, though I only remember hitting the level caps a couple of times before was got the Unearthed Arcana book that raised the level caps.
We even got to experience early 80's Canadian racism, as one player was an Algonquin tribal member. We tried to go to a 'local' D&D club's tournament game, and it didn't go well. I heard a lot of Quebecois swearwords that day. None of which I remember anymore, unfortunately. As a group we decided to never do that again.
I haven’t participated in this or other threads about the “half” comments as I don’t feel it’s my place to comment I do feel that WotC needs to say something about this. Maybe they have and I haven’t seen it.
But when I see articles and YouTube channels (non-political and political leaning alike) saying that WotC does not want mixed races in D&D because mixing races is racist (which I don’t think WotC is saying since they specifically gave guidance on how to create a character of varying parentage In a previous UA) I really think they need to make a statement clarifying their stance.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
Those are click bait YouTubers and some of them are racist. They are doing that on purpose. WotC literally gave guidance on how to play a mixed race character in one DnD. It just a boring option that many don’t like.
I understand that the UA had advice on handling this, I mentioned that in my post. I'm not opposed to their advice, I've given similar advice (long before 1D&D was a thing) on posts were someone wants to make, for example, a Dwarf/Gnome mix. I only bring this up because I've seen this on sites that are not even about D&D and they are misrepresenting what WotC was getting at. And in one instance, the YouTuber is actually mixed race, so I would hesitate to call them racist.
But I appreciate your reply. Thanks.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
The problem is that Wizards did clarify their stance. They've been uncomfortable for years with what the existing half-elf and half-orc blocks say about mixed-heritage people, how each stat block posits the mixed-heritage critter it portrays as a horrible societal outcast shunned by everyone for nothing whatsoever save the crime of Not Being Pure. They'd rather handle mixed heritages differently in the new books, so they're going to do so. People have taken that to mean "WIZARDS SAYS HALF-ELVES ARE RACIST!" rather than "Wizards says their current portrayal of half-elves is not up to snuff and they'd like to try a new, less fraught portrayal of half-elves, half-orcs, and half-anything-elses in the new books."
Because people are actively hunting for reasons to make Wizards out to be awful at everything and horrible people trying to make everything worse. Remember, this is the same crowd that deliberately and mmaliciously misconstrued and deprived of context Kyle Brink's comments on wanting to make room for a more diverse array of leadership within the business. They've already decided Wizards is SuperMegaUltraHyperRacist and no amount of actual evidence will change their minds.
Please do not contact or message me.
I would note that "half-elf" and "half-orc" are inherently problematic because they fail to mention what the other half is, and terms such as 'halfbreed' have generally been pejoratives. Having mixed characters isn't inherently racist, but the specific background and terminology used in D&D is problematic.
Then isn’t that a good reason to change the background and terminology?
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They did change the background and terminology.
Background: removed, in favor of letting the player or DM determine something narratively interesting. (Why would everyone of the same mixed heritage have the same background, anyway?)
Terminology: "half-<non-human-thing>" replaced with "Children of Different Humanoid Kinds" or whatever they're ultimately going with. To illustrate that the "half-<thing>" terminology is wildly insufficient to convey the idea (insufficient without invoking a very racist trope, that is).
I meant “and still give them a unique set of traits.”
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Having rules for hybrids is not a bad idea in general, it's just more complicated than you seem to realize.
I don’t think it has to be though.
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I dunno, I think it might actually be a bad idea in general.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
You think species should be entirely cosmetic, so you might not be the most unbiased opinion in the room.
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The idea that "species must not be cosmetic" is not exactly unbiased, either.
Me, I don't think anything needs to be purely cosmetic, but I sure as hell don't want the system forcing "how I was born" to be gamified. It's a bad tradition, no matter how traditional.