I just can’t fathom that the document is so carefully worded that they couldn’t bring them self to call them half orc’s or half elves. I wonder how long before will be deemed offensive language. Vary sad
I just can’t fathom that the document is so carefully worded that they couldn’t bring them self to call them half orc’s or half elves. I wonder how long before will be deemed offensive language. Vary sad
They mention them, but honestly with the various ancestors available why do they need to specifically single those two out?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
I just can’t fathom that the document is so carefully worded that they couldn’t bring them self to call them half orc’s or half elves. I wonder how long before will be deemed offensive language. Vary sad
I have experienced posts who say that 1/2 elves is the same as other offensive language used to describe mixed races. The thing is trying to determine just how much of an issue it is or are they a troll.
I have also seen people using all races should produce offspring and only a few races should be able to reproduce to push ideas for humans in our world.
But again the problem is IDing the trolls from people making valid points and concerns about topics, and at times this is not easy.
I just can’t fathom that the document is so carefully worded that they couldn’t bring them self to call them half orc’s or half elves. I wonder how long before will be deemed offensive language. Vary sad
They mention them, but honestly with the various ancestors available why do they need to specifically single those two out?
I guess more than anything, it would be out of tradition. Honestly, I am a bit sad to see Half-Elves go away. The unique stat boosts they had helped make some really MAD multiclass ideas. In an upcoming Spelljammer Campaign I am in, I am only able to make a Paladin/Cleric/Sorcerer Multiclass thanks to Half-Elves getting a +2 and 2 +1's since you need Str, Wis, and Charisma.
There is the "ABILITY SCORE INCREASES FROM ELSEWHERE" box, but I am unsure if that will survive the UA phase. It would be nice if it did though.
I just can’t fathom that the document is so carefully worded that they couldn’t bring them self to call them half orc’s or half elves. I wonder how long before will be deemed offensive language. Vary sad
They mention them, but honestly with the various ancestors available why do they need to specifically single those two out?
I guess more than anything, it would be out of tradition. Honestly, I am a bit sad to see Half-Elves go away. The unique stat boosts they had helped make some really MAD multiclass ideas. In an upcoming Spelljammer Campaign I am in, I am only able to make a Paladin/Cleric/Sorcerer Multiclass thanks to Half-Elves getting a +2 and 2 +1's since you need Str, Wis, and Charisma.
There is the "ABILITY SCORE INCREASES FROM ELSEWHERE" box, but I am unsure if that will survive the UA phase. It would be nice if it did though.
That side bar only makes it so you can't stack the ability bonuses from two different sources, ie using Tasha's floating bonuses AND the 1DD background bonuses. And half elves didn't go away, you can still make a half elf, it's just that being biracial is totally character lore rather than having them be mechanically distinct. You can absolutely recreate them by using an elf and giving them the Skilled Feat.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
I just can’t fathom that the document is so carefully worded that they couldn’t bring them self to call them half orc’s or half elves. I wonder how long before will be deemed offensive language. Vary sad
They mention them, but honestly with the various ancestors available why do they need to specifically single those two out?
I guess more than anything, it would be out of tradition. Honestly, I am a bit sad to see Half-Elves go away. The unique stat boosts they had helped make some really MAD multiclass ideas. In an upcoming Spelljammer Campaign I am in, I am only able to make a Paladin/Cleric/Sorcerer Multiclass thanks to Half-Elves getting a +2 and 2 +1's since you need Str, Wis, and Charisma.
There is the "ABILITY SCORE INCREASES FROM ELSEWHERE" box, but I am unsure if that will survive the UA phase. It would be nice if it did though.
That side bar only makes it so you can't stack the ability bonuses from two different sources, ie using Tasha's floating bonuses AND the 1DD background bonuses. And half elves didn't go away, you can still make a half elf, it's just that being biracial is totally character lore rather than having them be mechanically distinct. You can absolutely recreate them by using an elf and giving them the Skilled Feat.
I probably should clarify I was talking about half-elf as the mechanical race option. You really can't recreate them because they got a +2 and 2 +1's for their stat bonus. There were certain MAD multiclass combos that I would not attempt without Half-Elf helping in the stat department.
I would not be able to viably create my Spelljammer character under One D&D character creation, as the first level stat array (post racial bonuses) used is not possible: 16 Str/9 Dex/14 Con/8 int/13 Wis/16 Cha. As it requires the +2 to Charisma and 2 +1's to Str and Con, something that is not possible in One D&D.
So for all intents and purposes, half-elf went away for me unless the Side bar lets you pick them if you forgo the stat bonuses from the background.
I'm really underwhelmed by the half-race rules. My ideal fix to this would be relatively easy I think.
Basically the "special traits" for each race would mark certain traits as replaceable or swappable. You still choose all of the "special traits" for one parent's race, and then you can replace 1 trait from the other parent's race. The trait you replace and the trait you replace it with both have to be "replaceable".
Human: Skillful
Ardling: Damage Resistance
Dragonborn: Damage Resistance or Darkvision
Dwarf: Stonecunning or Darkvision
Elf: Darkvision or Keen Senses
Gnome: Darkvision
Halfling: Naturally Stealthy
Orc: Darkvision or Powerful Build
Tiefling: Darkvision
I think you could probably make even more traits replaceable, but these ones all seem to be about on par power-wise. This would also allow WOTC to add more replaceable traits in future books to allow for more customization.
I like it. I'm considering allowing players to use 3-7 downtime days and a long rest to change their racial options between their parent races. The changes above can take this and expand it further.
The inclusion of Orc into the play test is obviously to allow half-orc players to continue being half-orcs with the hybrid rules, as presumably Orc go on to be placed into PHB. Poor old Aasimar, having to watch Tiefling get in the PHB in 4E, now Orcs and Ardling likely in the next edition; And where Ardling just seems to be a more interesting alternative to Aasimar.
I just can’t fathom that the document is so carefully worded that they couldn’t bring them self to call them half orc’s or half elves. I wonder how long before will be deemed offensive language. Vary sad
They mention them, but honestly with the various ancestors available why do they need to specifically single those two out?
I guess more than anything, it would be out of tradition. Honestly, I am a bit sad to see Half-Elves go away. The unique stat boosts they had helped make some really MAD multiclass ideas. In an upcoming Spelljammer Campaign I am in, I am only able to make a Paladin/Cleric/Sorcerer Multiclass thanks to Half-Elves getting a +2 and 2 +1's since you need Str, Wis, and Charisma.
There is the "ABILITY SCORE INCREASES FROM ELSEWHERE" box, but I am unsure if that will survive the UA phase. It would be nice if it did though.
The unique stat boost was part of the issue with Half-elves to begin with, they were fundamentally the best race from an ability score point of view and dominated anything that used Charisma, esp Paladin, tho that said, still weren't as broken as the races with 40+ foot of flight from level 1 (I.E. the original aarakocra), half-elf still had basically the best traits and ASI from PHB.
The inclusion of Orc into the play test is obviously to allow half-orc players to continue being half-orcs with the hybrid rules, as presumably Orc go on to be placed into PHB. Poor old Aasimar, having to watch Tiefling get in the PHB in 4E, now Orcs and Ardling likely in the next edition; And where Ardling just seems to be a more interesting alternative to Aasimar.
I just can’t fathom that the document is so carefully worded that they couldn’t bring them self to call them half orc’s or half elves. I wonder how long before will be deemed offensive language. Vary sad
They mention them, but honestly with the various ancestors available why do they need to specifically single those two out?
I guess more than anything, it would be out of tradition. Honestly, I am a bit sad to see Half-Elves go away. The unique stat boosts they had helped make some really MAD multiclass ideas. In an upcoming Spelljammer Campaign I am in, I am only able to make a Paladin/Cleric/Sorcerer Multiclass thanks to Half-Elves getting a +2 and 2 +1's since you need Str, Wis, and Charisma.
There is the "ABILITY SCORE INCREASES FROM ELSEWHERE" box, but I am unsure if that will survive the UA phase. It would be nice if it did though.
The unique stat boost was part of the issue with Half-elves to begin with, they were fundamentally the best race from an ability score point of view and dominated anything that used Charisma, esp Paladin, tho that said, still weren't as broken as the races with 40+ foot of flight from level 1 (I.E. the original aarakocra), half-elf still had basically the best traits and ASI from PHB.
I honestly disagree that there was an issue, especially with variant human being the actual dominating race due to the usefulness of a first level feat. However, that stat setup lended it self very well for incredibly MAD builds; I also really liked mountain dwarf having 2 +2's. I really felt that some races having these line ups offered some interesting mechanical setups, but it honestly did not affect the actual power ceiling as you could not start with an 18 in a stat. Starting with an 18 via Custom Lineage was far more powerful than Half-Elf ever was as it meant a build could come online as much as 4 levels sooner if they could pick a vital feat at first level while keeping up with ASI's or even getting ahead by starting with that 18.
Because most builds often focused on getting one main stat to 20, both mountain dwarf and half-elf didn't really help accelerate this as they didn't offer that first level feat nor accelerate a character towards getting a 20 in a stat. Dwarves could get 2 18's at 20 sure, but it is usually getting a singular primary stat to 20 that is the goal. What Mountain Dwarf was useful for was just getting a secondary stat, often Con, to 18 for a small bonus. Half-Elf was useful for getting a tertiary stat to 13 for any annoying multiclass requirements.
Even with how you get a 1st level feat at 1st level and humans being limited to 1st level feat for their free feat, I don't think the stat bonuses from mountain dwarf or half-elf would change much, as they don't accelerate a build coming online.
The inclusion of Orc into the play test is obviously to allow half-orc players to continue being half-orcs with the hybrid rules
The inclusion of orc in the play test is because people didn't actually want to play half orcs, they wanted to play orcs, it's just that half orc was the only option they got.
The inclusion of Orc into the play test is obviously to allow half-orc players to continue being half-orcs with the hybrid rules, as presumably Orc go on to be placed into PHB. Poor old Aasimar, having to watch Tiefling get in the PHB in 4E, now Orcs and Ardling likely in the next edition; And where Ardling just seems to be a more interesting alternative to Aasimar.
I just can’t fathom that the document is so carefully worded that they couldn’t bring them self to call them half orc’s or half elves. I wonder how long before will be deemed offensive language. Vary sad
They mention them, but honestly with the various ancestors available why do they need to specifically single those two out?
I guess more than anything, it would be out of tradition. Honestly, I am a bit sad to see Half-Elves go away. The unique stat boosts they had helped make some really MAD multiclass ideas. In an upcoming Spelljammer Campaign I am in, I am only able to make a Paladin/Cleric/Sorcerer Multiclass thanks to Half-Elves getting a +2 and 2 +1's since you need Str, Wis, and Charisma.
There is the "ABILITY SCORE INCREASES FROM ELSEWHERE" box, but I am unsure if that will survive the UA phase. It would be nice if it did though.
The unique stat boost was part of the issue with Half-elves to begin with, they were fundamentally the best race from an ability score point of view and dominated anything that used Charisma, esp Paladin, tho that said, still weren't as broken as the races with 40+ foot of flight from level 1 (I.E. the original aarakocra), half-elf still had basically the best traits and ASI from PHB.
I honestly disagree that there was an issue, especially with variant human being the actual dominating race due to the usefulness of a first level feat. However, that stat setup lended it self very well for incredibly MAD builds; I also really liked mountain dwarf having 2 +2's. I really felt that some races having these line ups offered some interesting mechanical setups, but it honestly did not affect the actual power ceiling as you could not start with an 18 in a stat. Starting with an 18 via Custom Lineage was far more powerful than Half-Elf ever was as it meant a build could come online as much as 4 levels sooner if they could pick a vital feat at first level while keeping up with ASI's or even getting ahead by starting with that 18.
Because most builds often focused on getting one main stat to 20, both mountain dwarf and half-elf didn't really help accelerate this as they didn't offer that first level feat nor accelerate a character towards getting a 20 in a stat. Dwarves could get 2 18's at 20 sure, but it is usually getting a singular primary stat to 20 that is the goal. What Mountain Dwarf was useful for was just getting a secondary stat, often Con, to 18 for a small bonus. Half-Elf was useful for getting a tertiary stat to 13 for any annoying multiclass requirements.
Even with how you get a 1st level feat at 1st level and humans being limited to 1st level feat for their free feat, I don't think the stat bonuses from mountain dwarf or half-elf would change much, as they don't accelerate a build coming online.
Variant Human was also broken, I am not going to argue against that one, but variant human being broken doesn't mean that half-elf wasn't as well. With half-elf it was possible to start with a 17 in charisma and then have a 15 and a 14 ability score in two other scores. While a variant human could with half-feats start with two 16s, their next ASI would still be a 13, so basically Variant Human is not out-right overpowered compared to half-elf, additionally half-elves get dark vision which variant human did not.
The inclusion of Orc into the play test is obviously to allow half-orc players to continue being half-orcs with the hybrid rules, as presumably Orc go on to be placed into PHB. Poor old Aasimar, having to watch Tiefling get in the PHB in 4E, now Orcs and Ardling likely in the next edition; And where Ardling just seems to be a more interesting alternative to Aasimar.
I just can’t fathom that the document is so carefully worded that they couldn’t bring them self to call them half orc’s or half elves. I wonder how long before will be deemed offensive language. Vary sad
They mention them, but honestly with the various ancestors available why do they need to specifically single those two out?
I guess more than anything, it would be out of tradition. Honestly, I am a bit sad to see Half-Elves go away. The unique stat boosts they had helped make some really MAD multiclass ideas. In an upcoming Spelljammer Campaign I am in, I am only able to make a Paladin/Cleric/Sorcerer Multiclass thanks to Half-Elves getting a +2 and 2 +1's since you need Str, Wis, and Charisma.
There is the "ABILITY SCORE INCREASES FROM ELSEWHERE" box, but I am unsure if that will survive the UA phase. It would be nice if it did though.
The unique stat boost was part of the issue with Half-elves to begin with, they were fundamentally the best race from an ability score point of view and dominated anything that used Charisma, esp Paladin, tho that said, still weren't as broken as the races with 40+ foot of flight from level 1 (I.E. the original aarakocra), half-elf still had basically the best traits and ASI from PHB.
I honestly disagree that there was an issue, especially with variant human being the actual dominating race due to the usefulness of a first level feat. However, that stat setup lended it self very well for incredibly MAD builds; I also really liked mountain dwarf having 2 +2's. I really felt that some races having these line ups offered some interesting mechanical setups, but it honestly did not affect the actual power ceiling as you could not start with an 18 in a stat. Starting with an 18 via Custom Lineage was far more powerful than Half-Elf ever was as it meant a build could come online as much as 4 levels sooner if they could pick a vital feat at first level while keeping up with ASI's or even getting ahead by starting with that 18.
Because most builds often focused on getting one main stat to 20, both mountain dwarf and half-elf didn't really help accelerate this as they didn't offer that first level feat nor accelerate a character towards getting a 20 in a stat. Dwarves could get 2 18's at 20 sure, but it is usually getting a singular primary stat to 20 that is the goal. What Mountain Dwarf was useful for was just getting a secondary stat, often Con, to 18 for a small bonus. Half-Elf was useful for getting a tertiary stat to 13 for any annoying multiclass requirements.
Even with how you get a 1st level feat at 1st level and humans being limited to 1st level feat for their free feat, I don't think the stat bonuses from mountain dwarf or half-elf would change much, as they don't accelerate a build coming online.
Variant Human was also broken, I am not going to argue against that one, but variant human being broken doesn't mean that half-elf wasn't as well. With half-elf it was possible to start with a 17 in charisma and then have a 15 and a 14 ability score in two other scores. While a variant human could with half-feats start with two 16s, their next ASI would still be a 13, so basically Variant Human is not out-right overpowered compared to half-elf, additionally half-elves get dark vision which variant human did not.
Half-Elf can't do a 17/15/14/14/8/8 array. To do that, they would essentially need a 15/14/14/13/8/8 array pre-modifiers which would cost 28 points, one more than what is allowed. 17/15/14/13/8/8 is possible and is not broken or game warping. They don't accelerate you towards a build coming online. What they did do was make some unorthodox multiclassing combos actually possible, but the actual top tier multiclass combos did not need Half-Elves' stat bonuses. If you don't actually need the stat bonus, half-elf then run into a similar issue as base human as optimization is focused more on your class' primary stat.
Also, Variant Human could do a 16/16/16/8/8/8 array which was pretty common on certain classes, namely Paladin. Granted, why I did say variant human were domineering, I wouldn't go as far to call them broken.
Custom Lineage is the one that I would say is potentially broken due to being able to start with an 18 in a stat when stacking the +2 with a half feat.
Variant Human was also broken, I am not going to argue against that one, but variant human being broken doesn't mean that half-elf wasn't as well. With half-elf it was possible to start with a 17 in charisma and then have a 15 and a 14 ability score in two other scores. While a variant human could with half-feats start with two 16s, their next ASI would still be a 13, so basically Variant Human is not out-right overpowered compared to half-elf, additionally half-elves get dark vision which variant human did not.
Half-Elf can't do a 17/15/14/14/8/8 array. To do that, they would essentially need a 15/14/14/13/8/8 array pre-modifiers which would cost 28 points, one more than what is allowed. 17/15/14/13/8/8 is possible and is not broken or game warping. They don't accelerate you towards a build coming online. What they did do was make some unorthodox multiclassing combos actually possible, but the actual top tier multiclass combos did not need Half-Elves' stat bonuses. If you don't actually need the stat bonus, half-elf then run into a similar issue as base human as optimization is focused more on your class' primary stat.
Also, Variant Human could do a 16/16/16/8/8/8 array which was pretty common on certain classes, namely Paladin. Granted, why I did say variant human were domineering, I wouldn't go as far to call them broken.
Custom Lineage is the one that I would say is potentially broken due to being able to start with an 18 in a stat when stacking the +2 with a half feat.
I meant to say with Standard Array, I.E. the 15,14,13,12,10,8 array, not point buy. However in point buy half-elf can do 17/16/16/8/8/8 if talking about min-max. So at level 4 if the half-elf takes a half feat for that 1 point in charisma while the human takes 2 ASI in charisma, they are basically the same (since only way to get the 3 16s is with a half-feat), except the half-elf has darkvision over the variant human.
Can I just make one request? Can we not use "hybrid" and "half-breed" to talk about people? Even if they are fictional characters? Can we instead use "biracial" or perhaps "multiracial?"
As for the challenge, here's me remaking my half elf character with the new system
Fiego Laurentis De Gryphon Fiego Laurentis de Gryphon, of the Waterdeep De Gryphones, is the youngest son of the youngest son in a noble family that shocked high society generations ago by intermarrying with an Elven Princess from the elves of the High Forest. The scandal has died down somewhat in the last hundred years, mollified by the deft politics of Fiego's grandmother and the matriarch of the family, the aforementioned Elven Princess. Fiego has never been one for hard work, sleeping through most of his classes at the Bardic College and relying on his natural wit and talent to coast through while sneaking out to have illicit duels with his classmates.
Current Build Race: Half Elf (Wood Elf Variant: Fleet of Foot) Common, Elvish, Dwarvish Ability Scores: +2 Charisma, +1Dexterity, +1Strength Background: Noble Proficiencies: Playing Cards, Draconic, Persuasion, Performance (swapped out History) Equipment: A set of fine clothes, a signet ring, a scroll of pedigree, and a purse containing 25 gp Feature: Position of Privilege Thanks to your noble birth, people are inclined to think the best of you. You are welcome in high society, and people assume you have the right to be wherever you are. The common folk make every effort to accommodate you and avoid your displeasure, and other people of high birth treat you as a member of the same social sphere. You can secure an audience with a local noble if you need to. Class: Bard
Playtest Build Race: Half Elf (Human Special Features) Skillful: Persuasion Versatile: Musician Feat Background: Rich Playboy Ability Scores: +2 Charisma, +1 Dexterity Skill Proficiencies: Stealth, Performance Tool Proficiency: Playing Card Set Languages: Common, Elven, Dwarven Feat: Savage Attacker Equipment: Fine Clothes (15gp), Signet Ring (5gp), 30gp in coin
So he lost 5ft of walking speed, one language, a +1 Ability Score, and a nebulous social clout feature. He gained Inspiration on waking up, one Skill Proficiency, 5gp starting coin (assuming Bards get a starting instrument and I don't have to buy that with Background gold), and two feats that already start him on his path toward being a gishy bard. It's a little bit of an adjustment, but I think I like it.
But he isn't unique from the other human at your table and that is the issue for me, a half dragonborn half halfling will either be a Kobold sized Dragonborn that is identical to a Halfling, or a Dragon born sized halfling that is identical to a Dragonborn but either way it will be the same as the full halfling, or full dragonborn playing.
I just can’t fathom that the document is so carefully worded that they couldn’t bring them self to call them half orc’s or half elves. I wonder how long before will be deemed offensive language. Vary sad
They mention them, but honestly with the various ancestors available why do they need to specifically single those two out?
actually they don’t, they talk about the pairing of a Human and a Orc or Elf but they don’t actually use the word Half Orc’s or for that matter Half Elf.
Variant Human was also broken, I am not going to argue against that one, but variant human being broken doesn't mean that half-elf wasn't as well. With half-elf it was possible to start with a 17 in charisma and then have a 15 and a 14 ability score in two other scores. While a variant human could with half-feats start with two 16s, their next ASI would still be a 13, so basically Variant Human is not out-right overpowered compared to half-elf, additionally half-elves get dark vision which variant human did not.
Half-Elf can't do a 17/15/14/14/8/8 array. To do that, they would essentially need a 15/14/14/13/8/8 array pre-modifiers which would cost 28 points, one more than what is allowed. 17/15/14/13/8/8 is possible and is not broken or game warping. They don't accelerate you towards a build coming online. What they did do was make some unorthodox multiclassing combos actually possible, but the actual top tier multiclass combos did not need Half-Elves' stat bonuses. If you don't actually need the stat bonus, half-elf then run into a similar issue as base human as optimization is focused more on your class' primary stat.
Also, Variant Human could do a 16/16/16/8/8/8 array which was pretty common on certain classes, namely Paladin. Granted, why I did say variant human were domineering, I wouldn't go as far to call them broken.
Custom Lineage is the one that I would say is potentially broken due to being able to start with an 18 in a stat when stacking the +2 with a half feat.
I meant to say with Standard Array, I.E. the 15,14,13,12,10,8 array, not point buy. However in point buy half-elf can do 17/16/16/8/8/8 if talking about min-max. So at level 4 if the half-elf takes a half feat for that 1 point in charisma while the human takes 2 ASI in charisma, they are basically the same (since only way to get the 3 16s is with a half-feat), except the half-elf has darkvision over the variant human.
Except, that Half-Feat the Half-Elf takes will not always be one further advances their build to being online. Human has full flexibility in this. Human was able take Resilience for Con Saves, while also getting Con to 16 with it, giving them +6 to Con Saves at T2, so they only need to find another +3 bonus from somewhere else to auto succeed on dc10 concentration checks. Also, feats like Polearm Master, Great Weapon Master, Warcaster, etc. do not give a +1 but Humans can still take at 1st level and get an 18 primary at 4th level; half-elf must take a half-feat and it must be one that raises their orimary stat. Also, nothing wrong with the 17/16/16/8/8/8 array, no shame in min/maxing; the upper scale of things does not warp the game balance. Plus, think exactly what this is often giving a half-elf, just a +1 in a tertitary stat so maybe +1 to wisdom saves or +1 to con saves and +1 hp per level. None of those are game changing. No matter what, Half-Elf and Variant Human remain in the bounded accuracy range of +3 stat mod for 1-3 and can potentially hit +4 at 4th level.
What is game changing was Custom Lineage getting an 18 at first level (by stacking the +2 and a half feat on the same stat) and then getting a 20 in their main stat at 4th level. This literally breaks the bounded accuracy range.
The bonuses that Half Elf and Human could get from a third 16 were relatively minor. Yes it the strongest option for some classes like Paladins (whom prefer human for resilient so they can hit +9 Con Saves at 6th level via their Aura), but it was still within bounded accuracy and did not warp the game's balance. Min/maxing in general for 5E was not game warping.
Can I just make one request? Can we not use "hybrid" and "half-breed" to talk about people? Even if they are fictional characters? Can we instead use "biracial" or perhaps "multiracial?"
As for the challenge, here's me remaking my half elf character with the new system
Fiego Laurentis De Gryphon Fiego Laurentis de Gryphon, of the Waterdeep De Gryphones, is the youngest son of the youngest son in a noble family that shocked high society generations ago by intermarrying with an Elven Princess from the elves of the High Forest. The scandal has died down somewhat in the last hundred years, mollified by the deft politics of Fiego's grandmother and the matriarch of the family, the aforementioned Elven Princess. Fiego has never been one for hard work, sleeping through most of his classes at the Bardic College and relying on his natural wit and talent to coast through while sneaking out to have illicit duels with his classmates.
Current Build Race: Half Elf (Wood Elf Variant: Fleet of Foot) Common, Elvish, Dwarvish Ability Scores: +2 Charisma, +1Dexterity, +1Strength Background: Noble Proficiencies: Playing Cards, Draconic, Persuasion, Performance (swapped out History) Equipment: A set of fine clothes, a signet ring, a scroll of pedigree, and a purse containing 25 gp Feature: Position of Privilege Thanks to your noble birth, people are inclined to think the best of you. You are welcome in high society, and people assume you have the right to be wherever you are. The common folk make every effort to accommodate you and avoid your displeasure, and other people of high birth treat you as a member of the same social sphere. You can secure an audience with a local noble if you need to. Class: Bard
Playtest Build Race: Half Elf (Human Special Features) Skillful: Persuasion Versatile: Musician Feat Background: Rich Playboy Ability Scores: +2 Charisma, +1 Dexterity Skill Proficiencies: Stealth, Performance Tool Proficiency: Playing Card Set Languages: Common, Elven, Dwarven Feat: Savage Attacker Equipment: Fine Clothes (15gp), Signet Ring (5gp), 30gp in coin
So he lost 5ft of walking speed, one language, a +1 Ability Score, and a nebulous social clout feature. He gained Inspiration on waking up, one Skill Proficiency, 5gp starting coin (assuming Bards get a starting instrument and I don't have to buy that with Background gold), and two feats that already start him on his path toward being a gishy bard. It's a little bit of an adjustment, but I think I like it.
But he isn't unique from the other human at your table and that is the issue for me, a half dragonborn half halfling will either be a Kobold sized Dragonborn that is identical to a Halfling, or a Dragon born sized halfling that is identical to a Dragonborn but either way it will be the same as the full halfling, or full dragonborn playing.
Fiego would beg your pardon with a hand on the hilt of his rapier. Just because he uses the special features of humans doesn't make him like anyone else that uses those special features. I mean isn't that the point in the DIY Backgrounds? That you can create a unique character with all the different pieces as well as the lore you make?
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Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
I just can’t fathom that the document is so carefully worded that they couldn’t bring them self to call them half orc’s or half elves. I wonder how long before will be deemed offensive language. Vary sad
They mention them, but honestly with the various ancestors available why do they need to specifically single those two out?
actually they don’t, they talk about the pairing of a Human and a Orc or Elf but they don’t actually use the word Half Orc’s or for that matter Half Elf.
And that's the issue you're taking up? I would think that a more freeform ability to determine a character's lineage wouldn't have to specifically call out those specific pedigrees. I mean what if they are 1/4 elf and 3/4 human? What if one grandparent on your mom's side was an orc and one great grandparent on your dad's side was an elf, but everyone else in your family is human? Except that we don't know how cousin Larry got that fire breath? Why is it an issue that they don't use the exact terms "Half Elf" or "Half Orc?"
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Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Can I just make one request? Can we not use "hybrid" and "half-breed" to talk about people? Even if they are fictional characters? Can we instead use "biracial" or perhaps "multiracial?"
As for the challenge, here's me remaking my half elf character with the new system
Fiego Laurentis De Gryphon Fiego Laurentis de Gryphon, of the Waterdeep De Gryphones, is the youngest son of the youngest son in a noble family that shocked high society generations ago by intermarrying with an Elven Princess from the elves of the High Forest. The scandal has died down somewhat in the last hundred years, mollified by the deft politics of Fiego's grandmother and the matriarch of the family, the aforementioned Elven Princess. Fiego has never been one for hard work, sleeping through most of his classes at the Bardic College and relying on his natural wit and talent to coast through while sneaking out to have illicit duels with his classmates.
Current Build Race: Half Elf (Wood Elf Variant: Fleet of Foot) Common, Elvish, Dwarvish Ability Scores: +2 Charisma, +1Dexterity, +1Strength Background: Noble Proficiencies: Playing Cards, Draconic, Persuasion, Performance (swapped out History) Equipment: A set of fine clothes, a signet ring, a scroll of pedigree, and a purse containing 25 gp Feature: Position of Privilege Thanks to your noble birth, people are inclined to think the best of you. You are welcome in high society, and people assume you have the right to be wherever you are. The common folk make every effort to accommodate you and avoid your displeasure, and other people of high birth treat you as a member of the same social sphere. You can secure an audience with a local noble if you need to. Class: Bard
Playtest Build Race: Half Elf (Human Special Features) Skillful: Persuasion Versatile: Musician Feat Background: Rich Playboy Ability Scores: +2 Charisma, +1 Dexterity Skill Proficiencies: Stealth, Performance Tool Proficiency: Playing Card Set Languages: Common, Elven, Dwarven Feat: Savage Attacker Equipment: Fine Clothes (15gp), Signet Ring (5gp), 30gp in coin
So he lost 5ft of walking speed, one language, a +1 Ability Score, and a nebulous social clout feature. He gained Inspiration on waking up, one Skill Proficiency, 5gp starting coin (assuming Bards get a starting instrument and I don't have to buy that with Background gold), and two feats that already start him on his path toward being a gishy bard. It's a little bit of an adjustment, but I think I like it.
But he isn't unique from the other human at your table and that is the issue for me, a half dragonborn half halfling will either be a Kobold sized Dragonborn that is identical to a Halfling, or a Dragon born sized halfling that is identical to a Dragonborn but either way it will be the same as the full halfling, or full dragonborn playing.
Fiego would beg your pardon with a hand on the hilt of his rapier. Just because he uses the special features of humans doesn't make him like anyone else that uses those special features. I mean isn't that the point in the DIY Backgrounds? That you can create a unique character with all the different pieces as well as the lore you make?
I would suggest that you are invested in your character already so a mechanical change doesn't impact how you view them. I have tried out the new mix race rules with a couple of tables now, in every case on purpose I put a half race taking the abilities of the same full race as another player. And in every case after playing a session the half race player said they didn't feel they where a half race, as much as they tried to roleplay it having a dragonborn halfling with the same abilities as the halfling at the table made them feel that they should reskin as a halfling. This has been the case at the 3 tables I have DM'd with the new rules and the one table I attended as a player, the half race rules just feel, flat and uninspiring,
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I just can’t fathom that the document is so carefully worded that they couldn’t bring them self to call them half orc’s or half elves. I wonder how long before will be deemed offensive language. Vary sad
They mention them, but honestly with the various ancestors available why do they need to specifically single those two out?
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
I guess more than anything, it would be out of tradition. Honestly, I am a bit sad to see Half-Elves go away. The unique stat boosts they had helped make some really MAD multiclass ideas. In an upcoming Spelljammer Campaign I am in, I am only able to make a Paladin/Cleric/Sorcerer Multiclass thanks to Half-Elves getting a +2 and 2 +1's since you need Str, Wis, and Charisma.
There is the "ABILITY SCORE INCREASES FROM ELSEWHERE" box, but I am unsure if that will survive the UA phase. It would be nice if it did though.
That side bar only makes it so you can't stack the ability bonuses from two different sources, ie using Tasha's floating bonuses AND the 1DD background bonuses. And half elves didn't go away, you can still make a half elf, it's just that being biracial is totally character lore rather than having them be mechanically distinct. You can absolutely recreate them by using an elf and giving them the Skilled Feat.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
I probably should clarify I was talking about half-elf as the mechanical race option. You really can't recreate them because they got a +2 and 2 +1's for their stat bonus. There were certain MAD multiclass combos that I would not attempt without Half-Elf helping in the stat department.
I would not be able to viably create my Spelljammer character under One D&D character creation, as the first level stat array (post racial bonuses) used is not possible: 16 Str/9 Dex/14 Con/8 int/13 Wis/16 Cha. As it requires the +2 to Charisma and 2 +1's to Str and Con, something that is not possible in One D&D.
So for all intents and purposes, half-elf went away for me unless the Side bar lets you pick them if you forgo the stat bonuses from the background.
I like it. I'm considering allowing players to use 3-7 downtime days and a long rest to change their racial options between their parent races. The changes above can take this and expand it further.
The inclusion of Orc into the play test is obviously to allow half-orc players to continue being half-orcs with the hybrid rules, as presumably Orc go on to be placed into PHB. Poor old Aasimar, having to watch Tiefling get in the PHB in 4E, now Orcs and Ardling likely in the next edition; And where Ardling just seems to be a more interesting alternative to Aasimar.
The unique stat boost was part of the issue with Half-elves to begin with, they were fundamentally the best race from an ability score point of view and dominated anything that used Charisma, esp Paladin, tho that said, still weren't as broken as the races with 40+ foot of flight from level 1 (I.E. the original aarakocra), half-elf still had basically the best traits and ASI from PHB.
Half-elf should had gotten +1 Cha instead, to be honest. Just like Mountain Dwarves shouldn't had gotten +2 Con AND Str.
I honestly disagree that there was an issue, especially with variant human being the actual dominating race due to the usefulness of a first level feat. However, that stat setup lended it self very well for incredibly MAD builds; I also really liked mountain dwarf having 2 +2's. I really felt that some races having these line ups offered some interesting mechanical setups, but it honestly did not affect the actual power ceiling as you could not start with an 18 in a stat. Starting with an 18 via Custom Lineage was far more powerful than Half-Elf ever was as it meant a build could come online as much as 4 levels sooner if they could pick a vital feat at first level while keeping up with ASI's or even getting ahead by starting with that 18.
Because most builds often focused on getting one main stat to 20, both mountain dwarf and half-elf didn't really help accelerate this as they didn't offer that first level feat nor accelerate a character towards getting a 20 in a stat. Dwarves could get 2 18's at 20 sure, but it is usually getting a singular primary stat to 20 that is the goal. What Mountain Dwarf was useful for was just getting a secondary stat, often Con, to 18 for a small bonus. Half-Elf was useful for getting a tertiary stat to 13 for any annoying multiclass requirements.
Even with how you get a 1st level feat at 1st level and humans being limited to 1st level feat for their free feat, I don't think the stat bonuses from mountain dwarf or half-elf would change much, as they don't accelerate a build coming online.
The inclusion of orc in the play test is because people didn't actually want to play half orcs, they wanted to play orcs, it's just that half orc was the only option they got.
Variant Human was also broken, I am not going to argue against that one, but variant human being broken doesn't mean that half-elf wasn't as well. With half-elf it was possible to start with a 17 in charisma and then have a 15 and a 14 ability score in two other scores. While a variant human could with half-feats start with two 16s, their next ASI would still be a 13, so basically Variant Human is not out-right overpowered compared to half-elf, additionally half-elves get dark vision which variant human did not.
Half-Elf can't do a 17/15/14/14/8/8 array. To do that, they would essentially need a 15/14/14/13/8/8 array pre-modifiers which would cost 28 points, one more than what is allowed. 17/15/14/13/8/8 is possible and is not broken or game warping. They don't accelerate you towards a build coming online. What they did do was make some unorthodox multiclassing combos actually possible, but the actual top tier multiclass combos did not need Half-Elves' stat bonuses. If you don't actually need the stat bonus, half-elf then run into a similar issue as base human as optimization is focused more on your class' primary stat.
Also, Variant Human could do a 16/16/16/8/8/8 array which was pretty common on certain classes, namely Paladin. Granted, why I did say variant human were domineering, I wouldn't go as far to call them broken.
Custom Lineage is the one that I would say is potentially broken due to being able to start with an 18 in a stat when stacking the +2 with a half feat.
I meant to say with Standard Array, I.E. the 15,14,13,12,10,8 array, not point buy. However in point buy half-elf can do 17/16/16/8/8/8 if talking about min-max. So at level 4 if the half-elf takes a half feat for that 1 point in charisma while the human takes 2 ASI in charisma, they are basically the same (since only way to get the 3 16s is with a half-feat), except the half-elf has darkvision over the variant human.
But he isn't unique from the other human at your table and that is the issue for me, a half dragonborn half halfling will either be a Kobold sized Dragonborn that is identical to a Halfling, or a Dragon born sized halfling that is identical to a Dragonborn but either way it will be the same as the full halfling, or full dragonborn playing.
actually they don’t, they talk about the pairing of a Human and a Orc or Elf but they don’t actually use the word Half Orc’s or for that matter Half Elf.
Except, that Half-Feat the Half-Elf takes will not always be one further advances their build to being online. Human has full flexibility in this. Human was able take Resilience for Con Saves, while also getting Con to 16 with it, giving them +6 to Con Saves at T2, so they only need to find another +3 bonus from somewhere else to auto succeed on dc10 concentration checks. Also, feats like Polearm Master, Great Weapon Master, Warcaster, etc. do not give a +1 but Humans can still take at 1st level and get an 18 primary at 4th level; half-elf must take a half-feat and it must be one that raises their orimary stat. Also, nothing wrong with the 17/16/16/8/8/8 array, no shame in min/maxing; the upper scale of things does not warp the game balance. Plus, think exactly what this is often giving a half-elf, just a +1 in a tertitary stat so maybe +1 to wisdom saves or +1 to con saves and +1 hp per level. None of those are game changing. No matter what, Half-Elf and Variant Human remain in the bounded accuracy range of +3 stat mod for 1-3 and can potentially hit +4 at 4th level.
What is game changing was Custom Lineage getting an 18 at first level (by stacking the +2 and a half feat on the same stat) and then getting a 20 in their main stat at 4th level. This literally breaks the bounded accuracy range.
The bonuses that Half Elf and Human could get from a third 16 were relatively minor. Yes it the strongest option for some classes like Paladins (whom prefer human for resilient so they can hit +9 Con Saves at 6th level via their Aura), but it was still within bounded accuracy and did not warp the game's balance. Min/maxing in general for 5E was not game warping.
Fiego would beg your pardon with a hand on the hilt of his rapier. Just because he uses the special features of humans doesn't make him like anyone else that uses those special features. I mean isn't that the point in the DIY Backgrounds? That you can create a unique character with all the different pieces as well as the lore you make?
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
And that's the issue you're taking up? I would think that a more freeform ability to determine a character's lineage wouldn't have to specifically call out those specific pedigrees. I mean what if they are 1/4 elf and 3/4 human? What if one grandparent on your mom's side was an orc and one great grandparent on your dad's side was an elf, but everyone else in your family is human? Except that we don't know how cousin Larry got that fire breath? Why is it an issue that they don't use the exact terms "Half Elf" or "Half Orc?"
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
I would suggest that you are invested in your character already so a mechanical change doesn't impact how you view them. I have tried out the new mix race rules with a couple of tables now, in every case on purpose I put a half race taking the abilities of the same full race as another player. And in every case after playing a session the half race player said they didn't feel they where a half race, as much as they tried to roleplay it having a dragonborn halfling with the same abilities as the halfling at the table made them feel that they should reskin as a halfling.
This has been the case at the 3 tables I have DM'd with the new rules and the one table I attended as a player, the half race rules just feel, flat and uninspiring,