The new new UA includes their proposed revised ranger and hunter subclass along with feats and spells. Once you’ve looked it over I’d love to read your thoughts on it. To me, it looks pretty good. They have mashed together PHB and Tasha and some major revisions. The biggest change is where most of us wanted it - spells! We now get spells at L1, get access to cantrips and are no longer known only spells - we can ( like clerics) change our spells on a long rest. My major complaint seems fairly minor but here it is - no tool skill at level 1 when we should get to choose 1 from herbalism, navigator, cartographer and maybe poisoner. ASIs are now feats and there is a good selection of reasonable feats. TWF is improved but not hugely, it’s an improved 5e not a return to 1-3.xe. I need to go back thru more carefully and maybe do a couple of build tries but my initial impression is it’s greatly improved. So what do others think?
I find most revisions fine... Spellcasting is a very good improvement, and now with cantrips. Favored Enemy becoming Hunter's Mark may be a mechanic upgrade in some ways. Althought the Fluff part of selecting a particular enemy was interesting (including the bonus languages) for me (As a historic thing from earlier editions).
For the rest seemed really fine, maybe some balance changes here and there... and Hunter Subclass without the different choices felt off, but the features are fine as is, especially hunter's lore.
I am not a fan But am willing to give it a try but 5e still sounds more fun to play than 1dnd.
The ranger has lost a lot of tools used to prepare {the party} ahead of time. Reduced travel, ability to ignore difficult terrain, extra languages, Primal awareness, advantage+ functional expertise. The outlander feature is gone along with the favored terrain Superior version.
all of these "ribbon" (I hate the term because a lot of people use it as a insult) points are shoved onto Spells. Spells have gotten a boon so it may work but now every feature besides skills has a cost. The long game day - combat style seems harder.
We'll have to wait on the other UAs to say more, but I suspect the biggest impact of the myriad changes to fundamental class design is that multiclass spellcasters are much more powerful now, and that includes Rangers in spades given how incredibly good Ranger 1 is and how relatively lackluster Ranger 2 (since Rangers and implicitly Paladins are getting the Artificer multiclassing spell slots treatment, odd levels in half-caster classes is now better than ever and even levels are worse than ever) is in the UA (for similar reasons, as Charisma casters reach higher and higher levels, a Bard 1 dip will look tastier and tastier).
Did you notice all 3 classes subclass at the same levels now? 3, 6, 10, and 14. If that keeps up it'll completely change how we approach subclassing, since 1-dips into Warlock, Cleric, and Sorcerer won't give subclass benefits any more.
I predict that the build we use to compare optimal DPR - roughly Fighter 11/Rogue 3/Ranger 3, with the remaining 3 levels assigned based on the player's preferences - will be even better if these changes stick and propagate through the other classes, but the new balance will be so different we'll have to wait and see to say more. For example, right now Ranger 2 is strictly worse than Ranger 1/Fighter 1. Will that continue to be true?
We'll have to wait on the other UAs to say more, but I suspect the biggest impact of the myriad changes to fundamental class design is that multiclass spellcasters are much more powerful now, and that includes Rangers in spades given how incredibly good Ranger 1 is and how relatively lackluster Ranger 2 (since Rangers and implicitly Paladins are getting the Artificer multiclassing spell slots treatment, odd levels in half-caster classes is now better than ever and even levels are worse than ever) is in the UA (for similar reasons, as Charisma casters reach higher and higher levels, a Bard 1 dip will look tastier and tastier).
Did you notice all 3 classes subclass at the same levels now? 3, 6, 10, and 14. If that keeps up it'll completely change how we approach subclassing, since 1-dips into Warlock, Cleric, and Sorcerer won't give subclass benefits any more.
I predict that the build we use to compare optimal DPR - roughly Fighter 11/Rogue 3/Ranger 3, with the remaining 3 levels assigned based on the player's preferences - will be even better if these changes stick and propagate through the other classes, but the new balance will be so different we'll have to wait and see to say more. For example, right now Ranger 2 is strictly worse than Ranger 1/Fighter 1. Will that continue to be true?
Without seeing the other classes it’s hard to tell what happens with multiclassing. If all classes subclass at level 3 it’s going to change the dynamic in major ways. Also notice that rangers didn’t get fighting style until L2 if that holds true for fighters as well then Ranger 1/Fighter 1 would not necessarily be better than ranger 2.
1 level dips into bard/Wizard/sorceror for the ranger to get a jump on multiclass spell slots and access to evocation spells ( produce flame, faerie fire, Flame blade etc) may be a solid , if still MAD,, multiclass.
Feels like favoured enemy needs a boost otherwise it's eating into your spells and you either get to cast 2 spells or use a class feature. Comparing it to bards that get spells and bardic inspiration, they don't get Expertise at 1st level though so maybe that's the trade off? Not sure that's a fair trade off.
Suggested edit:
1ST LEVEL: FAVORED ENEMY You are adept at focusing your ire on a single foe. You always have the Hunter’s Mark Spell prepared, and it doesn’t count against the number of Spells you can prepare. Moreover, you don’t have to concentrate on the Spell once you cast it; it lasts for its full duration, until you end it as a Bonus Action, or until you are Incapacitated. You can cast this spell without using a spell slot a number of times per day equal to your proficiency bonus. You regain all expended uses after a long rest.
...also, why suggest Hunters Mark as a prepared spell when the feature above means it's always prepared? Spell Preparation. You have the following Spells prepared: Cure Wounds, Guidance, Hunter’s Mark, and Thorn Whip
I still think rangers should get advantage on a number of wisdom or intelligence skills checks per day. (Favored enemy updated.)
Frankly what I wanted was primal awareness with cleaned text and if you spend a specfic slot it allowed change to favorite enemies or terrain.(also cleaned up) Primal awareness was the best preparation option for smart planning of prepared spells in the phb. Now it's gone.
Feels like favoured enemy needs a boost otherwise it's eating into your spells and you either get to cast 2 spells or use a class feature. Comparing it to bards that get spells and bardic inspiration, they don't get Expertise at 1st level though so maybe that's the trade off? Not sure that's a fair trade off.
Suggested edit:
1ST LEVEL: FAVORED ENEMY You are adept at focusing your ire on a single foe. You always have the Hunter’s Mark Spell prepared, and it doesn’t count against the number of Spells you can prepare. Moreover, you don’t have to concentrate on the Spell once you cast it; it lasts for its full duration, until you end it as a Bonus Action, or until you are Incapacitated. You can cast this spell without using a spell slot a number of times per day equal to your proficiency bonus. You regain all expended uses after a long rest.
...also, why suggest Hunters Mark as a prepared spell when the feature above means it's always prepared? Spell Preparation. You have the following Spells prepared: Cure Wounds, Guidance, Hunter’s Mark, and Thorn Whip
I like your proposed change. Getting hunter’s mark PB times per long rest free would be a great addition. As to your last question I suspect you will see that errataed fairly quickly. There should have been 5 spells listed as prepared not 4 so maybe: Guidance, Thorn Whip, Cure Wounds, Speak w/ Animals and Hunter’s Mark?
After reading through the section on light weapons I’ve also changed my mind on the changes to two weapon fighting. If you choose dual wielding at either L1 or L4 and Two Weapon Fighting at L2 then after L5 you do 4 attacks a round 2 with a non light, non2handed weapon and 2 with a light weapon all getting the hunter’s mark damage and stat bonus damage for something like: 2D8+2D6+4D6(HM)+4(SB(+3?)) for an average of 38 damage a round which ain’t horrible. If you get a speed potion or get haste cast on you then it jumps to 57 damage a round. This more like 1e TWF than 5e and makes melee rangers a thing again.
Also agree on the comment where primal awareness and the extra things of favored enemy where really important. But Hunter's Mark already gives you bonues to wisdom checks (survival and perception i think).
Dual Wielding is a 4th lvl feat and doesnt give you extra attacks, just that you can have 1 non-light weapon in hand to get the extra TWF attack with the action.
After reading through the section on light weapons I’ve also changed my mind on the changes to two weapon fighting. If you choose dual wielding at either L1 or L4 and Two Weapon Fighting at L2 then after L5 you do 4 attacks a round 2 with a non light, non2handed weapon and 2 with a light weapon all getting the hunter’s mark damage and stat bonus damage for something like: 2D8+2D6+4D6(HM)+4(SB(+3?)) for an average of 38 damage a round which ain’t horrible. If you get a speed potion or get haste cast on you then it jumps to 57 damage a round. This more like 1e TWF than 5e and makes melee rangers a thing again.
You would only get 2 mainweapon attacks and one light wepon attack as it's restricted to once per turn.
LIGHT [WEAPON PROPERTY] When you take the Attack Action on your turn and attack with a Light weapon in one hand, you can make one extra attack as part of the same Action. That extra attack must be made with a different Light weapon in the other hand, and you don’t add your Ability Modifier to the extra attack’s damage. You can make this extra attack only once on each of your turns. For example, if you take the Attack Action on your turn and have a Shortsword in one hand and a Dagger in the other—each of which has the Light property—you can make one attack with each weapon, but you don’t add your Strength or Dexterity Modifier to
And yeah, I assume the prepared spells suggestion is just a copy paste from and old version before they added the favoured enemey hunters marrk. Who amongst us hasn't changeda document and forgot to change another thing associated with the thing you just changed before cicking submit :D
We will see what they do in the end - if you watch the videos it’s fairly Lear this version is an initial play test trial and there will be at least one more version before the final one.
After reading through the section on light weapons I’ve also changed my mind on the changes to two weapon fighting. If you choose dual wielding at either L1 or L4 and Two Weapon Fighting at L2 then after L5 you do 4 attacks a round 2 with a non light, non2handed weapon and 2 with a light weapon all getting the hunter’s mark damage and stat bonus damage for something like: 2D8+2D6+4D6(HM)+4(SB(+3?)) for an average of 38 damage a round which ain’t horrible. If you get a speed potion or get haste cast on you then it jumps to 57 damage a round. This more like 1e TWF than 5e and makes melee rangers a thing again.
You would only get 2 mainweapon attacks and one light wepon attack as it's restricted to once per turn.
LIGHT [WEAPON PROPERTY] When you take the Attack Action on your turn and attack with a Light weapon in one hand, you can make one extra attack as part of the same Action. That extra attack must be made with a different Light weapon in the other hand, and you don’t add your Ability Modifier to the extra attack’s damage. You can make this extra attack only once on each of your turns. For example, if you take the Attack Action on your turn and have a Shortsword in one hand and a Dagger in the other—each of which has the Light property—you can make one attack with each weapon, but you don’t add your Strength or Dexterity Modifier to
And yeah, I assume the prepared spells suggestion is just a copy paste from and old version before they added the favoured enemey hunters marrk. Who amongst us hasn't changeda document and forgot to change another thing associated with the thing you just changed before cicking submit :D
ahh, but at L5 you make two attacks so while while you only get one extra attack with the main attack you should be getting it again with the second main attack. The wording may well be a left over from the bonus action TWF of 5e. After watching the ranger video I’m fairly convinced it’s supposed to be as I described it. I may try playtesting it both ways.
I read it as one off hand attack regardless of number of attacks but I didn't watch the whole video so may be missing some context. Can alwasy just play it both ways and provide feedback when asked.
There is so much to love in this UA for the Ranger. 1. GWM and SS get nerfed so the damage difference between different martial approaches shrinks 2. Light weapon property makes two weapon fighting clear from your bonus action 3. 4 expertises (a bit much, but that is great, and a great reason to take nature or investigation) 4. Concentrationless Hunter's Mark 5. Spells AND Cantrips at 1st level
This is (at least) the second time WotC has UA'd concentrationless Hunter's Mark and last time it died because of the risk from multiclassing. Here again a one level dip for any martial or the rogue into Ranger is really tempting because of how front loaded it is. BUT making Hunter's mark concentrationless long term is what is needed for the Ranger to make it feel right in combat. Whatever happens that is needed, but the strain from multiclassing on game balance is going to want to push it out. So how do we save it:
Proposals 1. Push Favored Enemy (concentrationless HM) out to 2nd level, this makes the Ranger less level 1 front loaded. Smite is currently 2nd level, as are infusions for artificer, as are invocations for warlock, as is cunning action. 2nd feels like the right level based on the rest of the design. 2. Favored Enemy previously scaled at 1st, 6th, 14th. Perhaps you could push the concentrationless rider to 6th level. This would steer it mostly clear of multiclassing abuse
Overall I think this will bring more rangers to the table, which I think is a good thing.
They've basically replaced Natural Explorer with Tasha's Deft Explorer, so it makes sense to visit the changes all in one.
I love the expertise, two at level 1 and two at level 9 is amazing, and I would say more than reasonably compensates you for the loss of Natural Explorer. Especially considering people happily gave up Natural Explorer for one expertise previously. The loss of extra languages from Tasha's, which some tables would not have noticed, is saddening, but not insurmountable. Roving has a nice extra 5ft movement on top of Tasha's, which is nice, apart from that much the same, and tireless becomes used after every rest, not a long rest rechargeable proficiency times ability. Overall this is an improvement, less ambiguity will make Ranger more appealing.
I love the spellcasting changes, cantrips, prepared spells, rituals! This is an amazing boost to Rangers, very happy with this. Giving you choice in preparing spells is such a nice feeling, there are no regrets later in the game about spell choices, which can be off-putting to newer players.
Favoured enemy is an ability that I have never enjoyed, not just mechanically but thematically, and this change is probably the best iteration I've seen. I don't love it, but for me it is much better than previous attempts. It rules out the debate on whether to have Hunter's Mark prepared or not, and not requiring concentration means that it doesn't disrupt your other spellcasting. Overall a decent ability, there's no way they weren't having Favoured Enemy as it seems to be the Ranger's burden for all time so at least this feels not terrible. It doesn't (hunter's mark aside) have any non combat application, which is the biggest indictment.
I will miss Land's Stride, and to a lesser degree Primeval Awareness. I'd have liked to see some sort of reworking of Primeval Awareness, but it was not to be. Hide in Plain Sight was very poorly worded and I'm not sad to see that mess go, but it would have been nice to see it reworked/reworded.
I won't go past level 10 (well, 11, I guess I discussed Tireless) but I think these changes will be for the better at least for combat minded folks. It doesn't add much outside of that apart from Expertise, which is sad, so I hope they reverse that direction moving forward, because whilst mechanically I think this is probably better and more appealing, it is slightly less interesting. Of course, the spell changes may more than make up for this, which is something to consider.
Two-weapon fighting is now, if not good, at least viable (especially as you'll reliably have hunter's mark). Having that 2nd attack levels 1-4, and third attack level 5+ and still having your bonus action is going to make it more appealing for Rangers, so you might see more melee now.
There is so much to love in this UA for the Ranger. 1. GWM and SS get nerfed so the damage difference between different martial approaches shrinks 2. Light weapon property makes two weapon fighting clear from your bonus action 3. 4 expertises (a bit much, but that is great, and a great reason to take nature or investigation) 4. Concentrationless Hunter's Mark 5. Spells AND Cantrips at 1st level
This is (at least) the second time WotC has UA'd concentrationless Hunter's Mark and last time it died because of the risk from multiclassing. Here again a one level dip for any martial or the rogue into Ranger is really tempting because of how front loaded it is. BUT making Hunter's mark concentrationless long term is what is needed for the Ranger to make it feel right in combat. Whatever happens that is needed, but the strain from multiclassing on game balance is going to want to push it out. So how do we save it:
Proposals 1. Push Favored Enemy (concentrationless HM) out to 2nd level, this makes the Ranger less level 1 front loaded. Smite is currently 2nd level, as are infusions for artificer, as are invocations for warlock, as is cunning action. 2nd feels like the right level based on the rest of the design. 2. Favored Enemy previously scaled at 1st, 6th, 14th. Perhaps you could push the concentrationless rider to 6th level. This would steer it mostly clear of multiclassing abuse
And using that same idea, add better effects in that scale: like up the damage to 1d8 at 14th, or add an extra thing (cast it once or twice without spending a spell slot). The level 18th feature, even if a bit bump in damage, feels a little lackluster in comparison (and it will feel that way now that all 20th lvl features will become the new 17th-18th feature depending on class).
Another interesting fact is that at least for now... all experts receive their subclass features at the same levels: 3rd, 6th, 10th, 14th... and can probably see many other classes following the same idea, but i think they will probably define a different subclass scales per class group. It will be interesting for multiclassing breakpoints.
I agree that the expertise features are on point, and a better mechanical way to express the exploration/social part of a ranger, but still think a favored terrain like feature is still missing somehow, it doesnt need to be mechanically powerfull just a little flavor to add on top of a background that differs from other people with similar backgrounds i guess.
So I'm basically finished changing my Tasha's Ranger Beastmaster to a 5.ONE ranger to start playing tonight.
I had to move the character from half elf to elf and from Archaeologist to 'Guide' for the background.
So what changed?
I essentially gained the Wood Elf Magic Feat, the Magic Initiate (druid) feat, the Fighting Initiate feat (defense style) and the Druidic Warrior Fighting style (to give me the two cantrips the class now gets. I also gained 2 additional spells prepared.I gained an additional Expertise but lost 1 proficiency and a bunch of languages (I was quite the cunning linguist if I do say so myself) The overall changes also allowed me to take the Warcaster feat at 4. because I now needed a +1 wisdom feat and that fit the bill.
My ranger was a little unique. Druidic warrior Fighting style with Magic Initiate Druid as the level 4 feat. So these changes actually folded nicely into what I was doing and just resulted in a little bump in power in the form of +1 ac and an extra Expertise. I don't see much, if any use of the hunters mark for my character at this time due to competing Bonus Actions. My Bonus action is simply not available enough to consider HM a staple spell, but I'll be looking for any opportunity for it to see use. That being said, this is the second time that this version of Hunters Mark has appeared in a UA and it didnt survive testing last time due to multiclassing shenanigans so my doubts are high for it. I'll of course reevaluate once the Subclass document comes out since my Beast master subclass is being rewritten.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
The new new UA includes their proposed revised ranger and hunter subclass along with feats and spells. Once you’ve looked it over I’d love to read your thoughts on it.
To me, it looks pretty good. They have mashed together PHB and Tasha and some major revisions. The biggest change is where most of us wanted it - spells! We now get spells at L1, get access to cantrips and are no longer known only spells - we can ( like clerics) change our spells on a long rest. My major complaint seems fairly minor but here it is - no tool skill at level 1 when we should get to choose 1 from herbalism, navigator, cartographer and maybe poisoner. ASIs are now feats and there is a good selection of reasonable feats. TWF is improved but not hugely, it’s an improved 5e not a return to 1-3.xe. I need to go back thru more carefully and maybe do a couple of build tries but my initial impression is it’s greatly improved. So what do others think?
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
I find most revisions fine...
Spellcasting is a very good improvement, and now with cantrips.
Favored Enemy becoming Hunter's Mark may be a mechanic upgrade in some ways. Althought the Fluff part of selecting a particular enemy was interesting (including the bonus languages) for me (As a historic thing from earlier editions).
For the rest seemed really fine, maybe some balance changes here and there... and Hunter Subclass without the different choices felt off, but the features are fine as is, especially hunter's lore.
I am not a fan But am willing to give it a try but 5e still sounds more fun to play than 1dnd.
The ranger has lost a lot of tools used to prepare {the party} ahead of time. Reduced travel, ability to ignore difficult terrain, extra languages, Primal awareness, advantage+ functional expertise. The outlander feature is gone along with the favored terrain Superior version.
all of these "ribbon" (I hate the term because a lot of people use it as a insult) points are shoved onto Spells. Spells have gotten a boon so it may work but now every feature besides skills has a cost. The long game day - combat style seems harder.
Prepared spells ftw! :D
We'll have to wait on the other UAs to say more, but I suspect the biggest impact of the myriad changes to fundamental class design is that multiclass spellcasters are much more powerful now, and that includes Rangers in spades given how incredibly good Ranger 1 is and how relatively lackluster Ranger 2 (since Rangers and implicitly Paladins are getting the Artificer multiclassing spell slots treatment, odd levels in half-caster classes is now better than ever and even levels are worse than ever) is in the UA (for similar reasons, as Charisma casters reach higher and higher levels, a Bard 1 dip will look tastier and tastier).
Did you notice all 3 classes subclass at the same levels now? 3, 6, 10, and 14. If that keeps up it'll completely change how we approach subclassing, since 1-dips into Warlock, Cleric, and Sorcerer won't give subclass benefits any more.
I predict that the build we use to compare optimal DPR - roughly Fighter 11/Rogue 3/Ranger 3, with the remaining 3 levels assigned based on the player's preferences - will be even better if these changes stick and propagate through the other classes, but the new balance will be so different we'll have to wait and see to say more. For example, right now Ranger 2 is strictly worse than Ranger 1/Fighter 1. Will that continue to be true?
Without seeing the other classes it’s hard to tell what happens with multiclassing. If all classes subclass at level 3 it’s going to change the dynamic in major ways. Also notice that rangers didn’t get fighting style until L2 if that holds true for fighters as well then Ranger 1/Fighter 1 would not necessarily be better than ranger 2.
1 level dips into bard/Wizard/sorceror for the ranger to get a jump on multiclass spell slots and access to evocation spells ( produce flame, faerie fire, Flame blade etc) may be a solid , if still MAD,, multiclass.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
Feels like favoured enemy needs a boost otherwise it's eating into your spells and you either get to cast 2 spells or use a class feature. Comparing it to bards that get spells and bardic inspiration, they don't get Expertise at 1st level though so maybe that's the trade off? Not sure that's a fair trade off.
Suggested edit:
1ST LEVEL: FAVORED ENEMY
You are adept at focusing your ire on a single foe. You always have the Hunter’s Mark Spell prepared, and it doesn’t count against the number of Spells you can prepare. Moreover, you don’t have to concentrate on the Spell once you cast it; it lasts for its full duration, until you end it as a Bonus Action, or until you are Incapacitated. You can cast this spell without using a spell slot a number of times per day equal to your proficiency bonus. You regain all expended uses after a long rest.
...also, why suggest Hunters Mark as a prepared spell when the feature above means it's always prepared?
Spell Preparation. You have the following Spells prepared: Cure Wounds, Guidance, Hunter’s Mark, and Thorn Whip
I still think rangers should get advantage on a number of wisdom or intelligence skills checks per day. (Favored enemy updated.)
Frankly what I wanted was primal awareness with cleaned text and if you spend a specfic slot it allowed change to favorite enemies or terrain.(also cleaned up) Primal awareness was the best preparation option for smart planning of prepared spells in the phb. Now it's gone.
Edit: this is the best video so far(webdm) on the ranger IMO worth the whole watch. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97H0aXC2AWU
I like your proposed change. Getting hunter’s mark PB times per long rest free would be a great addition. As to your last question I suspect you will see that errataed fairly quickly. There should have been 5 spells listed as prepared not 4 so maybe: Guidance, Thorn Whip, Cure Wounds, Speak w/ Animals and Hunter’s Mark?
After reading through the section on light weapons I’ve also changed my mind on the changes to two weapon fighting. If you choose dual wielding at either L1 or L4 and Two Weapon Fighting at L2 then after L5 you do 4 attacks a round 2 with a non light, non2handed weapon and 2 with a light weapon all getting the hunter’s mark damage and stat bonus damage for something like: 2D8+2D6+4D6(HM)+4(SB(+3?)) for an average of 38 damage a round which ain’t horrible. If you get a speed potion or get haste cast on you then it jumps to 57 damage a round. This more like 1e TWF than 5e and makes melee rangers a thing again.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
Agree on the Hunter's Mark change.
Also agree on the comment where primal awareness and the extra things of favored enemy where really important. But Hunter's Mark already gives you bonues to wisdom checks (survival and perception i think).
Dual Wielding is a 4th lvl feat and doesnt give you extra attacks, just that you can have 1 non-light weapon in hand to get the extra TWF attack with the action.
You would only get 2 mainweapon attacks and one light wepon attack as it's restricted to once per turn.
LIGHT [WEAPON PROPERTY]
When you take the Attack Action on your turn
and attack with a Light weapon in one hand, you
can make one extra attack as part of the same
Action. That extra attack must be made with a
different Light weapon in the other hand, and
you don’t add your Ability Modifier to the extra
attack’s damage. You can make this extra attack
only once on each of your turns.
For example, if you take the Attack Action on
your turn and have a Shortsword in one hand
and a Dagger in the other—each of which has the
Light property—you can make one attack with
each weapon, but you don’t add your Strength or
Dexterity Modifier to
And yeah, I assume the prepared spells suggestion is just a copy paste from and old version before they added the favoured enemey hunters marrk. Who amongst us hasn't changeda document and forgot to change another thing associated with the thing you just changed before cicking submit :D
Maybe they should bit the bullet at this point and just remove Hunters Mark as a spell and make it a Ranger feature.
We will see what they do in the end - if you watch the videos it’s fairly Lear this version is an initial play test trial and there will be at least one more version before the final one.
ahh, but at L5 you make two attacks so while while you only get one extra attack with the main attack you should be getting it again with the second main attack. The wording may well be a left over from the bonus action TWF of 5e. After watching the ranger video I’m fairly convinced it’s supposed to be as I described it. I may try playtesting it both ways.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
I read it as one off hand attack regardless of number of attacks but I didn't watch the whole video so may be missing some context. Can alwasy just play it both ways and provide feedback when asked.
I like how the Sharpshooter Feat now also includes that we dont have disadvantage at less than 5 feet now.
What they have done for the ranger here is what I thought they would do:
Hunters mark a class feature
Expertise instead of the clunky ribbon features of PHB
Fixed dual wielding so it's actually viable past 4th level and doesn't interfere with rangers BA heavy spell list
Make rangers prepared casters
Overall I think we can put to bed the idea that the majority of people wanted the PHB ranger rules at this point ....
There is so much to love in this UA for the Ranger.
1. GWM and SS get nerfed so the damage difference between different martial approaches shrinks
2. Light weapon property makes two weapon fighting clear from your bonus action
3. 4 expertises (a bit much, but that is great, and a great reason to take nature or investigation)
4. Concentrationless Hunter's Mark
5. Spells AND Cantrips at 1st level
This is (at least) the second time WotC has UA'd concentrationless Hunter's Mark and last time it died because of the risk from multiclassing. Here again a one level dip for any martial or the rogue into Ranger is really tempting because of how front loaded it is. BUT making Hunter's mark concentrationless long term is what is needed for the Ranger to make it feel right in combat. Whatever happens that is needed, but the strain from multiclassing on game balance is going to want to push it out. So how do we save it:
Proposals
1. Push Favored Enemy (concentrationless HM) out to 2nd level, this makes the Ranger less level 1 front loaded. Smite is currently 2nd level, as are infusions for artificer, as are invocations for warlock, as is cunning action. 2nd feels like the right level based on the rest of the design.
2. Favored Enemy previously scaled at 1st, 6th, 14th. Perhaps you could push the concentrationless rider to 6th level. This would steer it mostly clear of multiclassing abuse
Overall I think this will bring more rangers to the table, which I think is a good thing.
They've basically replaced Natural Explorer with Tasha's Deft Explorer, so it makes sense to visit the changes all in one.
I love the expertise, two at level 1 and two at level 9 is amazing, and I would say more than reasonably compensates you for the loss of Natural Explorer. Especially considering people happily gave up Natural Explorer for one expertise previously. The loss of extra languages from Tasha's, which some tables would not have noticed, is saddening, but not insurmountable. Roving has a nice extra 5ft movement on top of Tasha's, which is nice, apart from that much the same, and tireless becomes used after every rest, not a long rest rechargeable proficiency times ability. Overall this is an improvement, less ambiguity will make Ranger more appealing.
I love the spellcasting changes, cantrips, prepared spells, rituals! This is an amazing boost to Rangers, very happy with this. Giving you choice in preparing spells is such a nice feeling, there are no regrets later in the game about spell choices, which can be off-putting to newer players.
Favoured enemy is an ability that I have never enjoyed, not just mechanically but thematically, and this change is probably the best iteration I've seen. I don't love it, but for me it is much better than previous attempts. It rules out the debate on whether to have Hunter's Mark prepared or not, and not requiring concentration means that it doesn't disrupt your other spellcasting. Overall a decent ability, there's no way they weren't having Favoured Enemy as it seems to be the Ranger's burden for all time so at least this feels not terrible. It doesn't (hunter's mark aside) have any non combat application, which is the biggest indictment.
I will miss Land's Stride, and to a lesser degree Primeval Awareness. I'd have liked to see some sort of reworking of Primeval Awareness, but it was not to be. Hide in Plain Sight was very poorly worded and I'm not sad to see that mess go, but it would have been nice to see it reworked/reworded.
I won't go past level 10 (well, 11, I guess I discussed Tireless) but I think these changes will be for the better at least for combat minded folks. It doesn't add much outside of that apart from Expertise, which is sad, so I hope they reverse that direction moving forward, because whilst mechanically I think this is probably better and more appealing, it is slightly less interesting. Of course, the spell changes may more than make up for this, which is something to consider.
Two-weapon fighting is now, if not good, at least viable (especially as you'll reliably have hunter's mark). Having that 2nd attack levels 1-4, and third attack level 5+ and still having your bonus action is going to make it more appealing for Rangers, so you might see more melee now.
And using that same idea, add better effects in that scale: like up the damage to 1d8 at 14th, or add an extra thing (cast it once or twice without spending a spell slot).
The level 18th feature, even if a bit bump in damage, feels a little lackluster in comparison (and it will feel that way now that all 20th lvl features will become the new 17th-18th feature depending on class).
Another interesting fact is that at least for now... all experts receive their subclass features at the same levels: 3rd, 6th, 10th, 14th... and can probably see many other classes following the same idea, but i think they will probably define a different subclass scales per class group. It will be interesting for multiclassing breakpoints.
I agree that the expertise features are on point, and a better mechanical way to express the exploration/social part of a ranger, but still think a favored terrain like feature is still missing somehow, it doesnt need to be mechanically powerfull just a little flavor to add on top of a background that differs from other people with similar backgrounds i guess.
So I'm basically finished changing my Tasha's Ranger Beastmaster to a 5.ONE ranger to start playing tonight.
I had to move the character from half elf to elf and from Archaeologist to 'Guide' for the background.
So what changed?
I essentially gained the Wood Elf Magic Feat, the Magic Initiate (druid) feat, the Fighting Initiate feat (defense style) and the Druidic Warrior Fighting style (to give me the two cantrips the class now gets. I also gained 2 additional spells prepared.I gained an additional Expertise but lost 1 proficiency and a bunch of languages (I was quite the cunning linguist if I do say so myself) The overall changes also allowed me to take the Warcaster feat at 4. because I now needed a +1 wisdom feat and that fit the bill.
My ranger was a little unique. Druidic warrior Fighting style with Magic Initiate Druid as the level 4 feat. So these changes actually folded nicely into what I was doing and just resulted in a little bump in power in the form of +1 ac and an extra Expertise. I don't see much, if any use of the hunters mark for my character at this time due to competing Bonus Actions. My Bonus action is simply not available enough to consider HM a staple spell, but I'll be looking for any opportunity for it to see use. That being said, this is the second time that this version of Hunters Mark has appeared in a UA and it didnt survive testing last time due to multiclassing shenanigans so my doubts are high for it. I'll of course reevaluate once the Subclass document comes out since my Beast master subclass is being rewritten.