Just speculation at this point, but I feel like the introduction of the Dazed and Slowed conditions could foreshadow how WotC might rebalance Stunning Strike so it is not so powerful at early level (like give them Dazing Strike early on and then maybe upgrade it to Stunning Strike at higher levels)
I was actually thinking the same thing and was going to mention that in the OP, but was in a hurry and left it out. Thanks for that.
Both the Goliath's Large Form and Powerful Build provide advantages for Monks too. They're shaping up to be a really good species choice for the class.
After reading the change that made the additional attack from two weapon fighting being moved into the main Attack action, I can speculate at least 3 scenarios about the future Martial Arts bonus attack:
No change at all: The additional attack from MA will still remain as a bonus action, which would mean that from lvl 1 a monk would be able to make 3 attacks per turn= 2 attacks using light weapons as the main Attack action and the unarmed strike as a bonus action.
MA additional attack is moved into the main Attack action, but it excludes the additional attack from the two-weapon fighting rules. This will lead to an "except Frog the Jam" clause being included in every single feature that granted attacks as a bonus action that end up being moved into the Attack action (but the two-weapon fighting rules do not have this clause, yet). There's precedent for this, however, as every 'Extra Attack'-like feature that is not Extra Attack (1, 2, or 3) has a clause that prevents those features from stacking with each other.
Same as 2, but it stacks with two-weapon fighting. Highly unlikely, but if WotC is not clear with their wording of future features, it could possibly be the case.
There is a 4th possible scenario, but it would require WotC to be really creative with their wording(and would show their hate for monks), which would be a combination of 1 and 2; MA still as a bonus action, and excluding any attack moved into the Attack action (like the two-weapon fighting rules) only specifically for the monk.
In any case, as they are now, Monks can actually benefit from all 3 of these (obviously in different degrees):
If 1 happens, then Monks would get 3 attacks from lvl 1 (as mentioned before), and 4 from lvl 5 without expending ki points (we still need to see how ki points are implemented though).
If 2 happens, then base Monks wouldn't see much change, but then we move into the subclasses (One DnD is supposed to be backwards compatible with subclasses):
Open Hand, Four elements, Long Death, Drunken Master, Mercy: no change
Shadows: minor change, Shadow Step would no longer conflict with the additional attack from MA
Sun Soul: minor change, Searing Arc Strike and Sun Shield would no longer conflict with MA (although, chances are, you would not be able to trigger it if you were using Radiant Sun Bolt)
Ascendant Dragon: minor/medium change, Aspect of the Wyrm (and by extension Frightful Presence and Explosive Fury) would no longer conflict with MA
Astral Self: medium/major change, all features from Astral Self (as they are all tied to the same bonus action activation) would no longer conlict with MA
Kensei: major change, Agile Parry (the single one feature everyone and their mother complained about) would now trigger without sacrificing damage, so from lvl 3 onwards all Kensei monks (that wield a melee weapon) would get a +2 AC on every turn; also Sharpen the Blade would no longer conflict with MA
If 3 happens, then same as 2, but with more attacks if possible.
(One DnD is supposed to be backwards compatible with subclasses):
Not exactly true. The Playtest is backward compatible with classes. 1dnd might not be. JC has only mentioned adventures in his interviews. WotC probably plans to make money reselling you the same subclasses reformated fo 1dnd in supplement books. “Oh your favorite Paladin subclass didn’t mark the 1dnd PHB, well that’s okay pick up Complete Divine with all your favorite 5e domains and oaths in 1 place. Updated for use in 1dnd. Only 19.99!” While it upsets me that this is likely I favor that choice to the option of not getting 1dnd versions of subclasses until they release slower in later source books or adventures. 2 to 3 at a time.
Right, I thought that the official release of 1DnD was going to be compatible, but it was only mentioned for the Playtest. My bad. Well then, I guess I can only speculate about the playtest effects on the Monk.
Right, I thought that the official release of 1DnD was going to be compatible, but it was only mentioned for the Playtest. My bad. Well then, I guess I can only speculate about the playtest effects on the Monk.
Speculation and theory crafting keeps people engaged so keep it up. Just do it from the mindset that 1dnd will only have 4 monks to start. What do you think they will be? How will they function? I’m hearing a lot of speculation that stunning strike might change. I’ve also believe that martial arts and flurry of blows will change so they happen as part of the attack action. I’m not sure how that will work with the new light weapon property. I’m guessing they won’t let you get that many extra hits in at lvl1. 3 hits per turn. If so that’s really strong.
(One DnD is supposed to be backwards compatible with subclasses):
Not exactly true. The Playtest is backward compatible with classes. 1dnd might not be. JC has only mentioned adventures in his interviews. WotC probably plans to make money reselling you the same subclasses reformated fo 1dnd in supplement books. “Oh your favorite Paladin subclass didn’t mark the 1dnd PHB, well that’s okay pick up Complete Divine with all your favorite 5e domains and oaths in 1 place. Updated for use in 1dnd. Only 19.99!” While it upsets me that this is likely I favor that choice to the option of not getting 1dnd versions of subclasses until they release slower in later source books or adventures. 2 to 3 at a time.
I really doubt that there will be these supplement books like you are saying. One of the reasons people, like me, buy the supplement books like Xanathar's or Tasha's etc. is because they have new subclasses and spells etc in them, along with other content, that they can charge for $29.99. Putting out a supplement book that has 5E subclasses in it would devalue the future books they will inevitably want to sell after the PHB, DMG, MM for 1D&D come out. I think it would be cutting into their future market too much for them to do this.
I do think 1D&D will be backwards compatible, it just depends on what you consider backwards compatible. But that's just my opinion. For me, I think what they mean by backwards compatible, as far as classes go, is you can play a 5E bard and I can play a 1D&D bard in the same game. You would continue to follow the 5E bard rules (like how Bardic Inspiration works giving out as a Bonus Action and it lasts 10 minutes) and I would follow the 1D&D bard rules (my Bardic Inspiration would be a reaction), but the main game rules, like how Long Rests work or Exhaustion works, would all be the 1D&D rules. I really don't see too many conflicts. It's not like you will be expected to "convert" a 5E subclass that isn't in the new PHB to somehow fit the 1D&D class rules, but they would just run alongside each other. Just like you can play a 5E dragonborn character and I can play a Fizbans dragonborn character with no issues. In some edge cases they might provide guidance on how to handle any real conflicts between how the different edition classes interact. But I don't see them putting out new books just to get out all the current subclasses in the game. Just like Artificer will be in a new Sourcebook at some point, but not a splat book like they did in earlier editions.
Right, I thought that the official release of 1DnD was going to be compatible, but it was only mentioned for the Playtest. My bad. Well then, I guess I can only speculate about the playtest effects on the Monk.
Speculation and theory crafting keeps people engaged so keep it up. Just do it from the mindset that 1dnd will only have 4 monks to start. What do you think they will be? How will they function? I’m hearing a lot of speculation that stunning strike might change. I’ve also believe that martial arts and flurry of blows will change so they happen as part of the attack action. I’m not sure how that will work with the new light weapon property. I’m guessing they won’t let you get that many extra hits in at lvl1. 3 hits per turn. If so that’s really strong.
I know they made the change on the Light weapon property, but have they said anything about two weapon fighting and how it will work? I assume Two Weapon Fighting, as described in the combat section for melee attacks, will be removed altogether, since it is now part of the Light property. As for monks, I am assuming the BA unarmed strike will be part of the Attack action. But I don't know if it will stack with the Light property, I doubt it. And Flurry of Blows will give you the BA attack. Yes that is a possible 3 attacks per turn at 2nd level (unless they move Ki, FoB, SotW, PD to 1st level) but everyone can get 2 attacks at 1st level with the Light property anyway so the balance is similar to 5E (monks could attack twice at 1st level, three times at 2nd level but only once/SR, while everyone else not using TWF could only attack once)
Edit: my predictions for the 4 subclasses would be Open Hand, Shadow, Four Elements (the 3 from the 2014 PHB) and Kensei.
I really doubt that there will be these supplement books like you are saying. One of the reasons people, like me, buy the supplement books like Xanathar's or Tasha's etc. is because they have new subclasses and spells etc in them, along with other content, that they can charge for $29.99. Putting out a supplement book that has 5E subclasses in it would devalue the future books they will inevitably want to sell after the PHB, DMG, MM for 1D&D come out. I think it would be cutting into their future market too much for them to do this.
I do think 1D&D will be backwards compatible, it just depends on what you consider backwards compatible. But that's just my opinion. For me, I think what they mean by backwards compatible, as far as classes go, is you can play a 5E bard and I can play a 1D&D bard in the same game. You would continue to follow the 5E bard rules (like how Bardic Inspiration works giving out as a Bonus Action and it lasts 10 minutes) and I would follow the 1D&D bard rules (my Bardic Inspiration would be a reaction), but the main game rules, like how Long Rests work or Exhaustion works, would all be the 1D&D rules. I really don't see too many conflicts. It's not like you will be expected to "convert" a 5E subclass that isn't in the new PHB to somehow fit the 1D&D class rules, but they would just run alongside each other. Just like you can play a 5E dragonborn character and I can play a Fizbans dragonborn character with no issues. In some edge cases they might provide guidance on how to handle any real conflicts between how the different edition classes interact. But I don't see them putting out new books just to get out all the current subclasses in the game. Just like Artificer will be in a new Sourcebook at some point, but not a splat book like they did in earlier editions.
Backward comparability for classes will fall apart the moment people attempt Multiclassing. Also how do spells list work if using a 5e bard in 1Dnd? Do I just use the 5e Bard spells list. I think the places it will really be a problem is when you have the 5e Sorcerer, Cleric, or Warlock in your low level party. Or when someone tries to multi class into the 5e version of one of those classes. I believe races, settings and adventures will be the only things truly backwards compatible. Maybe they will allow classes and ban multi classing between 1Dnd and 5e.
I'm sure they'll answer all of these questions by the end of the playtesting/new edition. They'll have guidance for mixing the old and the new. And outside of AL, we can all do whatever we want in our own games.
I imagine most of the changes will be liked by enough people that a large portion of tables will just switch entirely to 1DnD. That's what the surveys are for. Except for the ones that declared they would never change right at the start, most people are happy with the majority of changes. And they will all work together better than trying to adapt 5e stuff. Maybe a few subclasses that are left out at the start will need some adjustment. But we could probably guess how to do it already.
Honestly the longer it goes on, the more I wish they hadn't even bothered trying to be backwards compatible. Adventures are going to work pretty well anyway. You can still play modules from the first edition in 5e with minor work. But I'm starting to fear that trying to be 'compatible' will tie their hands on bigger improvements
Backward comparability for classes will fall apart the moment people attempt Multiclassing. Also how do spells list work if using a 5e bard in 1Dnd? Do I just use the 5e Bard spells list. I think the places it will really be a problem is when you have the 5e Sorcerer, Cleric, or Warlock in your low level party. Or when someone tries to multi class into the 5e version of one of those classes. I believe races, settings and adventures will be the only things truly backwards compatible. Maybe they will allow classes and ban multi classing between 1Dnd and 5e.
Multiclassing, I can see them giving some guidance on interactions. But since, in my opinion, you will play each class how it was designed for the edition, there won't be a ton of conflict. If you are playing a 5E bard you use all the 5E bard rules, including spell lists. You will have access to 5E spells that we currently have but are not PHB spells (5e or 1D&D), and you will use only 5E spells. You won't pick up a 1D&D spell on your 5E bard. So if they change Vicious Mockery in 1D&D you can't pick it, you will have to use the 5E version, for better or worse.
The spell progression hasn't changed that I can see so you will still calculate spell slots by adding your classes together. So if you chose to multiclass a 5E bard with a 1D&D Cleric your spell slot progression still works out the same (and probably same for half casters like Paladin (1D&D or 5E) or third casters like Eldritch Knight. The only difference would be the number of spells you can prepare. In 5E, you prepare spells separately for each class, but since 1D&D is going to a number of spells prepared equal to spell slots, that doesn't quite work out as nicely. So they may give guidance on that.
Not sure why having a 5E Sorcerer, Cleric, or Warlock will be a problem. You still get your subclass at level 1 since I believe that there will be no need to "convert" classes to 1D&D. WotC's version of backwards compatibility will only mean that they can work together side by side (of course, this is my own personal interpretation of what I think WotC means by backwards compatible, and I could be completely wrong). Class rules will still be followed by each individual class for the version you are using, and only the main "game" rules like how combat works, long rests, exhaustion, etc. will be 1D&D rules. A 5E bard will still have their BA Bardic Inspiration. Song of Rest will still give extra HP on a short rest, if a player uses a Hit Die to heal (have they mentioned anything about short rests in the UA's? I don't recall).
But this is all a little bit on the edges of what this thread was about, so I don't want to get too derailed on subjects outside of the Monk and how 1D&D UA is affecting it.
A good example of a maybe too good multiclass 1dnd Ranger X + 5e War Cleric 1. Using light property which I believe will completely replace of TWF when 1dnd is released. This combo allows a 3rd or 4th (Ranger 5) weapon attack Wis mod times per day. Considering you spend first bonus action to Hunters Mark maybe it isn’t that strong, but at low levels that’s a pretty big damage boost. Also we would need guidelines for weird things like if I’m a 5e paladin X + 1dnd Cleric 1 is my channel divinity actually two separate features. I’m sure there are more weird things that can come up multiclassing 5e and 1dnd classes. That’s why I believe they will restrict classes to just 1dnd in the future. I can guarantee all AL will move to 1dnd quickly, and will definitely not support 5e classes. Anyone playing at home can always do whatever feels good for them and their table.
Edit: Also this conversation about 5e classes and sub classes in 1dnd relates to what the monks will have available to them in 1dnd. I believe it will just be the 4 classes in the 2024 phb. We will be limited to those choices for a while.
It seems the simplest solution for the issue of multiclassing and a mixture of 5e and 1DnD classes would be to state that any specific character would have to stick exclusively to either 5e or 1 DnD classes. This would eliminate the possibility of exploiting some loophole or unintended rules interaction between the two systems.
I noticed the Collection did not mention the potential backgrounds from the UA Character Origins. Here are the 3 that provide a DEX and WIS bonus.
Sailor: +2DEX, +1WIS, Tavern Brawler
Urchin: +2DEX, +1WIS, Lucky
Guide: +1DEX, +2WIS, Magic Initiate (Primal)
While Guide would be my personal choice, I doubt that will be the default background. Because Tavern Brawler seems tailored to monk and only appears on Sailors, I expect Sailors will be set as the default background. The Enhanced Unarmed Strike duplicates martial arts dice, providing minimal benefit. The Damage Rerolls are ok for a d4, going from 2.5 average to 2.875 average if my computations are correct. But if the martial arts dice scales up, 1's are less likely to be rolled.
For those who have played with the Crusher feat, is the 5 ft push once a turn sufficient for hit&run tactics? I'd be worried about the last attack missing or enemies with a 10 ft reach. Regardless, the base Monk class will need an additional Disengage or similar effect for those that start without Tavern Brawler.
I noticed the Collection did not mention the potential backgrounds from the UA Character Origins. Here are the 3 that provide a DEX and WIS bonus.
Sailor: +2DEX, +1WIS, Tavern Brawler
Urchin: +2DEX, +1WIS, Lucky
Guide: +1DEX, +2WIS, Magic Initiate (Primal)
While Guide would be my personal choice, I doubt that will be the default background. Because Tavern Brawler seems tailored to monk and only appears on Sailors, I expect Sailors will be set as the default background. The Enhanced Unarmed Strike duplicates martial arts dice, providing minimal benefit. The Damage Rerolls are ok for a d4, going from 2.5 average to 2.875 average if my computations are correct. But if the martial arts dice scales up, 1's are less likely to be rolled.
For those who have played with the Crusher feat, is the 5 ft push once a turn sufficient for hit&run tactics? I'd be worried about the last attack missing or enemies with a 10 ft reach. Regardless, the base Monk class will need an additional Disengage or similar effect for those that start without Tavern Brawler.
Backgrounds were not mentioned because the default background is Custom. Those are examples of what you can do with backgrounds, but not the only thing. You could be a Gambler with skills in deception and sleight of hand with tavern brawler feat and +2 dex and +1 Cha for example. It isn't listed but it is one of many possible backgrounds that is not listed. The samples are just an example and not set in stone.
I noticed the Collection did not mention the potential backgrounds from the UA Character Origins. Here are the 3 that provide a DEX and WIS bonus.
Sailor: +2DEX, +1WIS, Tavern Brawler
Urchin: +2DEX, +1WIS, Lucky
Guide: +1DEX, +2WIS, Magic Initiate (Primal)
While Guide would be my personal choice, I doubt that will be the default background. Because Tavern Brawler seems tailored to monk and only appears on Sailors, I expect Sailors will be set as the default background. The Enhanced Unarmed Strike duplicates martial arts dice, providing minimal benefit. The Damage Rerolls are ok for a d4, going from 2.5 average to 2.875 average if my computations are correct. But if the martial arts dice scales up, 1's are less likely to be rolled.
For those who have played with the Crusher feat, is the 5 ft push once a turn sufficient for hit&run tactics? I'd be worried about the last attack missing or enemies with a 10 ft reach. Regardless, the base Monk class will need an additional Disengage or similar effect for those that start without Tavern Brawler.
Backgrounds were not mentioned because the default background is Custom. Those are examples of what you can do with backgrounds, but not the only thing. You could be a Gambler with skills in deception and sleight of hand with tavern brawler feat and +2 dex and +1 Cha for example. It isn't listed but it is one of many possible backgrounds that is not listed. The samples are just an example and not set in stone.
The UAs so far seem to be providing a lot of recommended default options for building characters (including full spell lists) so I suspect we might see Quick Build background recommendations. Sailor does look like a good fit mechanically, but rather odd thematically for the Monk. (A sailor Monk would be interesting, but not the obvious choice.)
From the Druid UA, apparently lose most of your other features when you Wild Shape, presumably including any from multi-classing. Thus, no Kung-Fu Pandas, alas.
Wild Speculation: The Paladin's level 9 ability Abjure Foes is actually a preliminary test for a monk ability.
Each target must make a Wisdom saving throw. On a failed save, the target has the Dazed and Frightened conditions for 1 minute or until it takes any damage. On a successful save, the target has the Dazed condition for 1 minute or until it takes any damage.
It took me less than 10 seconds to realize that being able to cause Dazed on a Successful save to multiple targets would nullify enemy melee combatants at higher levels while the party targets enemies one by one. The best enemy counter strategy would be to attack themselves to end the effect, at significant action economy cost. Other commenters have compared it to Hypnotic Pattern. I suspect the developers intentionally made it more powerful to draw attention to it to test the idea of Dazed on a successful saving throw. Such a condition would be feasible on a monk, but would need precise fine tuning of power level. Again, this is a highly unlikely speculation.
Wild Speculation: The Paladin's level 9 ability Abjure Foes is actually a preliminary test for a monk ability.
Each target must make a Wisdom saving throw. On a failed save, the target has the Dazed and Frightened conditions for 1 minute or until it takes any damage. On a successful save, the target has the Dazed condition for 1 minute or until it takes any damage.
It took me less than 10 seconds to realize that being able to cause Dazed on a Successful save to multiple targets would nullify enemy melee combatants at higher levels while the party targets enemies one by one. The best enemy counter strategy would be to attack themselves to end the effect, at significant action economy cost. Other commenters have compared it to Hypnotic Pattern. I suspect the developers intentionally made it more powerful to draw attention to it to test the idea of Dazed on a successful saving throw. Such a condition would be feasible on a monk, but would need precise fine tuning of power level. Again, this is a highly unlikely speculation.
Yep, this was the one point I caught onto as well that I mentioned in #36 and I updated on the OP.
I was actually thinking the same thing and was going to mention that in the OP, but was in a hurry and left it out. Thanks for that.
Thanks, I will add that as well
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
After reading the change that made the additional attack from two weapon fighting being moved into the main Attack action, I can speculate at least 3 scenarios about the future Martial Arts bonus attack:
There is a 4th possible scenario, but it would require WotC to be really creative with their wording(and would show their hate for monks), which would be a combination of 1 and 2; MA still as a bonus action, and excluding any attack moved into the Attack action (like the two-weapon fighting rules) only specifically for the monk.
In any case, as they are now, Monks can actually benefit from all 3 of these (obviously in different degrees):
Not exactly true. The Playtest is backward compatible with classes. 1dnd might not be. JC has only mentioned adventures in his interviews. WotC probably plans to make money reselling you the same subclasses reformated fo 1dnd in supplement books. “Oh your favorite Paladin subclass didn’t mark the 1dnd PHB, well that’s okay pick up Complete Divine with all your favorite 5e domains and oaths in 1 place. Updated for use in 1dnd. Only 19.99!” While it upsets me that this is likely I favor that choice to the option of not getting 1dnd versions of subclasses until they release slower in later source books or adventures. 2 to 3 at a time.
Right, I thought that the official release of 1DnD was going to be compatible, but it was only mentioned for the Playtest. My bad. Well then, I guess I can only speculate about the playtest effects on the Monk.
Speculation and theory crafting keeps people engaged so keep it up. Just do it from the mindset that 1dnd will only have 4 monks to start. What do you think they will be? How will they function? I’m hearing a lot of speculation that stunning strike might change. I’ve also believe that martial arts and flurry of blows will change so they happen as part of the attack action. I’m not sure how that will work with the new light weapon property. I’m guessing they won’t let you get that many extra hits in at lvl1. 3 hits per turn. If so that’s really strong.
I really doubt that there will be these supplement books like you are saying. One of the reasons people, like me, buy the supplement books like Xanathar's or Tasha's etc. is because they have new subclasses and spells etc in them, along with other content, that they can charge for $29.99. Putting out a supplement book that has 5E subclasses in it would devalue the future books they will inevitably want to sell after the PHB, DMG, MM for 1D&D come out. I think it would be cutting into their future market too much for them to do this.
I do think 1D&D will be backwards compatible, it just depends on what you consider backwards compatible. But that's just my opinion. For me, I think what they mean by backwards compatible, as far as classes go, is you can play a 5E bard and I can play a 1D&D bard in the same game. You would continue to follow the 5E bard rules (like how Bardic Inspiration works giving out as a Bonus Action and it lasts 10 minutes) and I would follow the 1D&D bard rules (my Bardic Inspiration would be a reaction), but the main game rules, like how Long Rests work or Exhaustion works, would all be the 1D&D rules. I really don't see too many conflicts. It's not like you will be expected to "convert" a 5E subclass that isn't in the new PHB to somehow fit the 1D&D class rules, but they would just run alongside each other. Just like you can play a 5E dragonborn character and I can play a Fizbans dragonborn character with no issues. In some edge cases they might provide guidance on how to handle any real conflicts between how the different edition classes interact. But I don't see them putting out new books just to get out all the current subclasses in the game. Just like Artificer will be in a new Sourcebook at some point, but not a splat book like they did in earlier editions.
I know they made the change on the Light weapon property, but have they said anything about two weapon fighting and how it will work? I assume Two Weapon Fighting, as described in the combat section for melee attacks, will be removed altogether, since it is now part of the Light property. As for monks, I am assuming the BA unarmed strike will be part of the Attack action. But I don't know if it will stack with the Light property, I doubt it. And Flurry of Blows will give you the BA attack. Yes that is a possible 3 attacks per turn at 2nd level (unless they move Ki, FoB, SotW, PD to 1st level) but everyone can get 2 attacks at 1st level with the Light property anyway so the balance is similar to 5E (monks could attack twice at 1st level, three times at 2nd level but only once/SR, while everyone else not using TWF could only attack once)
Edit: my predictions for the 4 subclasses would be Open Hand, Shadow, Four Elements (the 3 from the 2014 PHB) and Kensei.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
Backward comparability for classes will fall apart the moment people attempt Multiclassing. Also how do spells list work if using a 5e bard in 1Dnd? Do I just use the 5e Bard spells list. I think the places it will really be a problem is when you have the 5e Sorcerer, Cleric, or Warlock in your low level party. Or when someone tries to multi class into the 5e version of one of those classes. I believe races, settings and adventures will be the only things truly backwards compatible. Maybe they will allow classes and ban multi classing between 1Dnd and 5e.
I'm sure they'll answer all of these questions by the end of the playtesting/new edition. They'll have guidance for mixing the old and the new. And outside of AL, we can all do whatever we want in our own games.
I imagine most of the changes will be liked by enough people that a large portion of tables will just switch entirely to 1DnD. That's what the surveys are for. Except for the ones that declared they would never change right at the start, most people are happy with the majority of changes. And they will all work together better than trying to adapt 5e stuff. Maybe a few subclasses that are left out at the start will need some adjustment. But we could probably guess how to do it already.
Honestly the longer it goes on, the more I wish they hadn't even bothered trying to be backwards compatible. Adventures are going to work pretty well anyway. You can still play modules from the first edition in 5e with minor work. But I'm starting to fear that trying to be 'compatible' will tie their hands on bigger improvements
Multiclassing, I can see them giving some guidance on interactions. But since, in my opinion, you will play each class how it was designed for the edition, there won't be a ton of conflict. If you are playing a 5E bard you use all the 5E bard rules, including spell lists. You will have access to 5E spells that we currently have but are not PHB spells (5e or 1D&D), and you will use only 5E spells. You won't pick up a 1D&D spell on your 5E bard. So if they change Vicious Mockery in 1D&D you can't pick it, you will have to use the 5E version, for better or worse.
The spell progression hasn't changed that I can see so you will still calculate spell slots by adding your classes together. So if you chose to multiclass a 5E bard with a 1D&D Cleric your spell slot progression still works out the same (and probably same for half casters like Paladin (1D&D or 5E) or third casters like Eldritch Knight. The only difference would be the number of spells you can prepare. In 5E, you prepare spells separately for each class, but since 1D&D is going to a number of spells prepared equal to spell slots, that doesn't quite work out as nicely. So they may give guidance on that.
Not sure why having a 5E Sorcerer, Cleric, or Warlock will be a problem. You still get your subclass at level 1 since I believe that there will be no need to "convert" classes to 1D&D. WotC's version of backwards compatibility will only mean that they can work together side by side (of course, this is my own personal interpretation of what I think WotC means by backwards compatible, and I could be completely wrong). Class rules will still be followed by each individual class for the version you are using, and only the main "game" rules like how combat works, long rests, exhaustion, etc. will be 1D&D rules. A 5E bard will still have their BA Bardic Inspiration. Song of Rest will still give extra HP on a short rest, if a player uses a Hit Die to heal (have they mentioned anything about short rests in the UA's? I don't recall).
But this is all a little bit on the edges of what this thread was about, so I don't want to get too derailed on subjects outside of the Monk and how 1D&D UA is affecting it.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
A good example of a maybe too good multiclass 1dnd Ranger X + 5e War Cleric 1. Using light property which I believe will completely replace of TWF when 1dnd is released. This combo allows a 3rd or 4th (Ranger 5) weapon attack Wis mod times per day. Considering you spend first bonus action to Hunters Mark maybe it isn’t that strong, but at low levels that’s a pretty big damage boost.
Also we would need guidelines for weird things like if I’m a 5e paladin X + 1dnd Cleric 1 is my channel divinity actually two separate features. I’m sure there are more weird things that can come up multiclassing 5e and 1dnd classes. That’s why I believe they will restrict classes to just 1dnd in the future. I can guarantee all AL will move to 1dnd quickly, and will definitely not support 5e classes. Anyone playing at home can always do whatever feels good for them and their table.
Edit: Also this conversation about 5e classes and sub classes in 1dnd relates to what the monks will have available to them in 1dnd. I believe it will just be the 4 classes in the 2024 phb. We will be limited to those choices for a while.
It seems the simplest solution for the issue of multiclassing and a mixture of 5e and 1DnD classes would be to state that any specific character would have to stick exclusively to either 5e or 1 DnD classes. This would eliminate the possibility of exploiting some loophole or unintended rules interaction between the two systems.
I noticed the Collection did not mention the potential backgrounds from the UA Character Origins. Here are the 3 that provide a DEX and WIS bonus.
Sailor: +2DEX, +1WIS, Tavern Brawler
Urchin: +2DEX, +1WIS, Lucky
Guide: +1DEX, +2WIS, Magic Initiate (Primal)
While Guide would be my personal choice, I doubt that will be the default background. Because Tavern Brawler seems tailored to monk and only appears on Sailors, I expect Sailors will be set as the default background. The Enhanced Unarmed Strike duplicates martial arts dice, providing minimal benefit. The Damage Rerolls are ok for a d4, going from 2.5 average to 2.875 average if my computations are correct. But if the martial arts dice scales up, 1's are less likely to be rolled.
For those who have played with the Crusher feat, is the 5 ft push once a turn sufficient for hit&run tactics? I'd be worried about the last attack missing or enemies with a 10 ft reach. Regardless, the base Monk class will need an additional Disengage or similar effect for those that start without Tavern Brawler.
Backgrounds were not mentioned because the default background is Custom. Those are examples of what you can do with backgrounds, but not the only thing. You could be a Gambler with skills in deception and sleight of hand with tavern brawler feat and +2 dex and +1 Cha for example. It isn't listed but it is one of many possible backgrounds that is not listed. The samples are just an example and not set in stone.
Thank you. I stand corrected.
The UAs so far seem to be providing a lot of recommended default options for building characters (including full spell lists) so I suspect we might see Quick Build background recommendations. Sailor does look like a good fit mechanically, but rather odd thematically for the Monk. (A sailor Monk would be interesting, but not the obvious choice.)
I have begun updating the OP with the Druid/Paladin UA. I haven't had a chance to review the UA too much, but added one point so far.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
From the Druid UA, apparently lose most of your other features when you Wild Shape, presumably including any from multi-classing. Thus, no Kung-Fu Pandas, alas.
Wild Speculation: The Paladin's level 9 ability Abjure Foes is actually a preliminary test for a monk ability.
Each target must make a Wisdom saving throw. On a failed save, the target has the Dazed and Frightened conditions for 1 minute or until it takes any damage. On a successful save, the target has the Dazed condition for 1 minute or until it takes any damage.
It took me less than 10 seconds to realize that being able to cause Dazed on a Successful save to multiple targets would nullify enemy melee combatants at higher levels while the party targets enemies one by one. The best enemy counter strategy would be to attack themselves to end the effect, at significant action economy cost. Other commenters have compared it to Hypnotic Pattern. I suspect the developers intentionally made it more powerful to draw attention to it to test the idea of Dazed on a successful saving throw. Such a condition would be feasible on a monk, but would need precise fine tuning of power level. Again, this is a highly unlikely speculation.
Yep, this was the one point I caught onto as well that I mentioned in #36 and I updated on the OP.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
Smites now work on Unarmed Strikes. If the new Monk does anything to make them less M.A.D, maybe a Monk/Paladin will be a viable multiclass option
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