I have a controversial idea where the schools are concerned for Wizard: Let them pick divine and primal spells that are in their school.
Let Necromancy get the resurrection spells and speak with dead. Let Divination get access to detect poison and disease, augury, and commune with nature. Let Conjuration get access to the fey and celestial summoning spells, and weird stuff like word of recall. It does mean Abjuration would get access to all the healing spells in One D&D (which would in turn solidify it as one of the best Wiz subclasses if it wasn't already), but it does provide Abjuration with more abjuration spells they can actually use proactively in combat to boost their Arcane Ward (assuming that feature will still exist).
I don't think this is what they'll do, and if they did, it would probably be limited in some way. But I still think something interesting could come out of it.
Extremely Controversial! I have to vote against that.
I'd like to point out that since 5th Edition seems to be the basis for One D&D, they don't need to include all 8 schools of magic for the Wizard or all Cleric Domains from the PHB. They could just include a few that are either really popular or really need reworked, and the rest would be in existence for anyone who wants to play them (converting them to One D&D would be pretty straightforward).
Tru but will cut down on the wizard subclasses by NOT having one for each school. And if they ever make a new school in the future, no need for a new subclass just for that school.
I could see Wizards getting a subclass revamp, removing schools as subclasses and instead gaining school-specialization as a classwide feature. Sort of a 'warlock pact boon' style.
That would free up more slots for other classes.
I love this idea. For wizards, the only "defining" features seem to come from their subclasses, so itd be great if we could open up the main Wizard subclasses to things that are more varied in abilities and let focusing on certain types of magic be its own thing.
For example, having a Bladesinger wizard with Illusion-magic boons compared to another Bladesinger wizard with Abjuration-magic boons could help set apart a Leopard-style practitioner from a Red Tiger-style practitioner, respectively. A Scribes wizard who focuses on Evocation could benefit from mixing and matching elemental damage types whereas a Scribe wizard who focuses on Necromancy might gain unique power from "corrupting" all of their spells to deal specifically necrotic damage.
These things are already possible from a roleplay perspective and from choice of spells, but switching schools of magic to their own set of boons would mechanically allow wizards to feel even more unique and varied in their approaches to how they use magic to interact with the world.
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I really, really hope if they do the 8 Wizard School subclasses again, they think them through more than they did in the 2014 PHB.
They were really poorly thought out, from features hard to adjudicate, to features that are horribly balanced. I kind of hope they dodge the "specialist" wizard model entirely. The thing is if they go that route they do kind of commit to 8 wizard subclasses., Its just too obvious of a dropped feature if you have abjurer, conjurer, divination, enchantment. People will be like what you went alphabetical and ran out of letters at E? If they completely redo the concept and start with hopefully a better balanced scribe, blade singer, war, (artificer which is where I always felt it should have been) or random new 4th, and then hopefully trim cleric down to 4 then each class can get 4.
It kind of sucks we are going form 100ish sub classes to 48. I get it new edition, PH can't be massive, they need to make that supplement cash etc. But dang there are quite a few classes that I had no interest in until a late game sub class came out.
For wizards. you can reduce the number of subclasses if you combine all the schools to create the Specialist Wizard.
Level 1 (Or 3) Pick Specialist. As a specialist you pick a school. At each subclass feature level, you get a feature that matches your school choice.
Possible but hard to pull off without the features either feeling kind of generic or just being a overly massive sub class that takes like 6 pages up.
Edit to add that would likely still irritate people as then wizards would be getting all of their PH content and pretty much all of their supplement sub class content as well except the chronomancer/graviturge stuff that i think most tables banned anyways.
I'd really like the warlock to get the genie, I feel like a Shi'ar from al'quadim with it, hands down my favorite sub class in the game. Odds are if the lock gets one more though it will be hex blade. Which I kind of want to see go away as imo it was less a distinct sub class and more a patch for pact of the blade, why they refused to just errata it ill never know.
I'd really like the warlock to get the genie, I feel like a Shi'ar from al'quadim with it, hands down my favorite sub class in the game. Odds are if the lock gets one more though it will be hex blade. Which I kind of want to see go away as imo it was less a distinct sub class and more a patch for pact of the blade, why they refused to just errata it ill never know.
The genie and the celestial are the two I want to see make a return. The genie because it's just evocative and fun, and the celestial because I like celestials and themes surrounding them, and I like the more supportive playstyle the patron brings to the class.
Also they're two of the subclasses that you can play without running the risk of being too "edgy".
Assuming Fiend, Great Old One, and Archfey are three of the four though, if I had to pick a fourth, I'd go with Celestial. Why you may ask? Because I like seeing thematic balance, and Celestial balances out the more sinister nature of the other three.
I like your four picks.
I would also like Hexblade to just go away as a subclass and divide up most of it into an updated Pact of the Blade and some Invocations.
I'd really like the warlock to get the genie, I feel like a Shi'ar from al'quadim with it, hands down my favorite sub class in the game. Odds are if the lock gets one more though it will be hex blade. Which I kind of want to see go away as imo it was less a distinct sub class and more a patch for pact of the blade, why they refused to just errata it ill never know.
The genie and the celestial are the two I want to see make a return. The genie because it's just evocative and fun, and the celestial because I like celestials and themes surrounding them, and I like the more supportive playstyle the patron brings to the class.
Also they're two of the subclasses that you can play without running the risk of being too "edgy".
Assuming Fiend, Great Old One, and Archfey are three of the four though, if I had to pick a fourth, I'd go with Celestial. Why you may ask? Because I like seeing thematic balance, and Celestial balances out the more sinister nature of the other three.
I can't argue with the logic on it, I just am petty and want my genie lock.
Though for all the caster classes they may go off the rails entirely and change how the sub classes work or are designed, like locks their sub class may not be their patron anymore. The patron may be more just back ground fluff and the sub class is separate from that.
If they go that route, they might do what some here have suggested and have the pact boon be the subclass. It even lines up perfectly with the idea of having four, because we already have four pact boons in 5e, and Talisman can be there from the start this time.
I doubt in that scenario they'd relegate to the patron to just fluff though, and might retain some mechanical relevance. Great Old Ones are not going to give you the exact same magical knowledge as an angel, noble genie, or demon prince would.
If I were in charge of the design of the wizard group classes, I'd be seeing if I could give them all parallel structure, with a power source (patron, bloodline, school specialization) and a subclass. It solves the wizard's huge pile of dull subclasses problem, and gives a basis for better differentiating the sorcerer from the wizard.
I really, really hope if they do the 8 Wizard School subclasses again, they think them through more than they did in the 2014 PHB.
They were really poorly thought out, from features hard to adjudicate, to features that are horribly balanced. I kind of hope they dodge the "specialist" wizard model entirely. The thing is if they go that route they do kind of commit to 8 wizard subclasses., Its just too obvious of a dropped feature if you have abjurer, conjurer, divination, enchantment. People will be like what you went alphabetical and ran out of letters at E? If they completely redo the concept and start with hopefully a better balanced scribe, blade singer, war, (artificer which is where I always felt it should have been) or random new 4th, and then hopefully trim cleric down to 4 then each class can get 4.
It kind of sucks we are going form 100ish sub classes to 48. I get it new edition, PH can't be massive, they need to make that supplement cash etc. But dang there are quite a few classes that I had no interest in until a late game sub class came out.
I can barely imagine them not doing all 8 schools as subclasses again, but if they did get rid off them and made it like a pact boon/evocation like feature that could be fun. They would need a class that could be the classic true one school focus. Let’s call it the Scholar. Scholar would be similar to land Druid gaining free prepared spells from its chosen school. Scholar features would augment that schools spell attack rolls and spell dc and or give free castings from that school. Then you could have bladesinger for Gish lovers, Theurgist who gains access to divine spells, and Naturalist that gains access to primal spells. At second level all wizards pick a school that comes with a feature to cut the cost of adding this schools spells to your spellbook and a 1evocation like ability associated with the school. At 3rd level you gain your subclass. Then at 6, 10, 14 your sub class features. You gain new school and 1 addition evocation like ability at 5,11,17. You can choose an ability from any of you schools. Scholars first subclass feature give them an additional evocation like ability and would allow them to forgo gaining a new school and getting an additional evocation like ability at those levels. So scholar could have 8 of the abilities under the same school at 17th level. Which if I sit down and work out what those would be for an hour or two I’m sure I could have something that would make people feel like they were an upgraded 5e evocation , divination, or etc school subclass. I’m sure WotC could do this as well. I doubt this is the plan, but when I have a moment I’m going to write out how this would look.
Well, there are already three subclasses that are not tied to schools of magic: Bladesinging, Scribes, and War Magic. Amended versions of those plus maybe one or two more could be the basic subclasses and then each Wizard could also specialize in a school of magic and get benefits from that.
I really, really hope if they do the 8 Wizard School subclasses again, they think them through more than they did in the 2014 PHB.
They were really poorly thought out, from features hard to adjudicate, to features that are horribly balanced. I kind of hope they dodge the "specialist" wizard model entirely. The thing is if they go that route they do kind of commit to 8 wizard subclasses., Its just too obvious of a dropped feature if you have abjurer, conjurer, divination, enchantment. People will be like what you went alphabetical and ran out of letters at E? If they completely redo the concept and start with hopefully a better balanced scribe, blade singer, war, (artificer which is where I always felt it should have been) or random new 4th, and then hopefully trim cleric down to 4 then each class can get 4.
It kind of sucks we are going form 100ish sub classes to 48. I get it new edition, PH can't be massive, they need to make that supplement cash etc. But dang there are quite a few classes that I had no interest in until a late game sub class came out.
I can barely imagine them not doing all 8 schools as subclasses again, but if they did get rid off them and made it like a pact boon/evocation like feature that could be fun. They would need a class that could be the classic true one school focus. Let’s call it the Scholar. Scholar would be similar to land Druid gaining free prepared spells from its chosen school. Scholar features would augment that schools spell attack rolls and spell dc and or give free castings from that school. Then you could have bladesinger for Gish lovers, Theurgist who gains access to divine spells, and Naturalist that gains access to primal spells. At second level all wizards pick a school that comes with a feature to cut the cost of adding this schools spells to your spellbook and a 1evocation like ability associated with the school. At 3rd level you gain your subclass. Then at 6, 10, 14 your sub class features. You gain new school and 1 addition evocation like ability at 5,11,17. You can choose an ability from any of you schools. Scholars first subclass feature give them an additional evocation like ability and would allow them to forgo gaining a new school and getting an additional evocation like ability at those levels. So scholar could have 8 of the abilities under the same school at 17th level. Which if I sit down and work out what those would be for an hour or two I’m sure I could have something that would make people feel like they were an upgraded 5e evocation , divination, or etc school subclass. I’m sure WotC could do this as well. I doubt this is the plan, but when I have a moment I’m going to write out how this would look.
I figure since it wouldn't make sense to move the Sorcerer's and Warlock's sub-classes past level 1 since they are the very reason of being part of those respective classes so I see them moving the Wizard's sub-class to level 1 to get the Mage group's sub-classes all align which would allow them to required joining the respective wizarding school to become a wizard and allows that school to give the character their first spell book in spite of when they joined.
I really, really hope if they do the 8 Wizard School subclasses again, they think them through more than they did in the 2014 PHB.
They were really poorly thought out, from features hard to adjudicate, to features that are horribly balanced. I kind of hope they dodge the "specialist" wizard model entirely. The thing is if they go that route they do kind of commit to 8 wizard subclasses., Its just too obvious of a dropped feature if you have abjurer, conjurer, divination, enchantment. People will be like what you went alphabetical and ran out of letters at E? If they completely redo the concept and start with hopefully a better balanced scribe, blade singer, war, (artificer which is where I always felt it should have been) or random new 4th, and then hopefully trim cleric down to 4 then each class can get 4.
It kind of sucks we are going form 100ish sub classes to 48. I get it new edition, PH can't be massive, they need to make that supplement cash etc. But dang there are quite a few classes that I had no interest in until a late game sub class came out.
I can barely imagine them not doing all 8 schools as subclasses again, but if they did get rid off them and made it like a pact boon/evocation like feature that could be fun. They would need a class that could be the classic true one school focus. Let’s call it the Scholar. Scholar would be similar to land Druid gaining free prepared spells from its chosen school. Scholar features would augment that schools spell attack rolls and spell dc and or give free castings from that school. Then you could have bladesinger for Gish lovers, Theurgist who gains access to divine spells, and Naturalist that gains access to primal spells. At second level all wizards pick a school that comes with a feature to cut the cost of adding this schools spells to your spellbook and a 1evocation like ability associated with the school. At 3rd level you gain your subclass. Then at 6, 10, 14 your sub class features. You gain new school and 1 addition evocation like ability at 5,11,17. You can choose an ability from any of you schools. Scholars first subclass feature give them an additional evocation like ability and would allow them to forgo gaining a new school and getting an additional evocation like ability at those levels. So scholar could have 8 of the abilities under the same school at 17th level. Which if I sit down and work out what those would be for an hour or two I’m sure I could have something that would make people feel like they were an upgraded 5e evocation , divination, or etc school subclass. I’m sure WotC could do this as well. I doubt this is the plan, but when I have a moment I’m going to write out how this would look.
I figure since it wouldn't make sense to move the Sorcerer's and Warlock's sub-classes past level 1 since they are the very reason of being part of those respective classes so I see them moving the Wizard's sub-class to level 1 to get the Mage group's sub-classes all align which would allow them to required joining the respective wizarding school to become a wizard and allows that school to give the character their first spell book in spite of when they joined.
So maybe 1,6,10,14 for mages. That sounds right, but what’s going to happen to priest? Everyone is different in that group. Clerics are 1, Druids are 2, and Paladins are 3. I would guess making them all 1,6,10,14 as well. Paladins could be much like a shadow sorcerers who get their sub class at 1, but has a feature that fully comes online at 3rd. So you get your oath at 1 but it fully works at 3rd. Anyway back on subject this 1,6,10,14 works for my Scholar, Bladesinger, Theurigist, Naturalist concepts, but as some have suggested WotC are more likely to stick with established subclasses. Bladesinger, Scribe, War and something new that works similar to traditional schools or a theurigist or onomacy to round out the last since they have been attempted in UA.
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Extremely Controversial! I have to vote against that.
I'd like to point out that since 5th Edition seems to be the basis for One D&D, they don't need to include all 8 schools of magic for the Wizard or all Cleric Domains from the PHB. They could just include a few that are either really popular or really need reworked, and the rest would be in existence for anyone who wants to play them (converting them to One D&D would be pretty straightforward).
Tru but will cut down on the wizard subclasses by NOT having one for each school. And if they ever make a new school in the future, no need for a new subclass just for that school.
I love this idea. For wizards, the only "defining" features seem to come from their subclasses, so itd be great if we could open up the main Wizard subclasses to things that are more varied in abilities and let focusing on certain types of magic be its own thing.
For example, having a Bladesinger wizard with Illusion-magic boons compared to another Bladesinger wizard with Abjuration-magic boons could help set apart a Leopard-style practitioner from a Red Tiger-style practitioner, respectively. A Scribes wizard who focuses on Evocation could benefit from mixing and matching elemental damage types whereas a Scribe wizard who focuses on Necromancy might gain unique power from "corrupting" all of their spells to deal specifically necrotic damage.
These things are already possible from a roleplay perspective and from choice of spells, but switching schools of magic to their own set of boons would mechanically allow wizards to feel even more unique and varied in their approaches to how they use magic to interact with the world.
Three-time Judge of the Competition of the Finest Brews! Come join us in making fun, unique homebrew and voting for your favorite entries!
They were really poorly thought out, from features hard to adjudicate, to features that are horribly balanced. I kind of hope they dodge the "specialist" wizard model entirely. The thing is if they go that route they do kind of commit to 8 wizard subclasses., Its just too obvious of a dropped feature if you have abjurer, conjurer, divination, enchantment. People will be like what you went alphabetical and ran out of letters at E? If they completely redo the concept and start with hopefully a better balanced scribe, blade singer, war, (artificer which is where I always felt it should have been) or random new 4th, and then hopefully trim cleric down to 4 then each class can get 4.
It kind of sucks we are going form 100ish sub classes to 48. I get it new edition, PH can't be massive, they need to make that supplement cash etc. But dang there are quite a few classes that I had no interest in until a late game sub class came out.
Possible but hard to pull off without the features either feeling kind of generic or just being a overly massive sub class that takes like 6 pages up.
Edit to add that would likely still irritate people as then wizards would be getting all of their PH content and pretty much all of their supplement sub class content as well except the chronomancer/graviturge stuff that i think most tables banned anyways.
I'd really like the warlock to get the genie, I feel like a Shi'ar from al'quadim with it, hands down my favorite sub class in the game. Odds are if the lock gets one more though it will be hex blade. Which I kind of want to see go away as imo it was less a distinct sub class and more a patch for pact of the blade, why they refused to just errata it ill never know.
I like your four picks.
I would also like Hexblade to just go away as a subclass and divide up most of it into an updated Pact of the Blade and some Invocations.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
I can't argue with the logic on it, I just am petty and want my genie lock.
Though for all the caster classes they may go off the rails entirely and change how the sub classes work or are designed, like locks their sub class may not be their patron anymore. The patron may be more just back ground fluff and the sub class is separate from that.
If I were in charge of the design of the wizard group classes, I'd be seeing if I could give them all parallel structure, with a power source (patron, bloodline, school specialization) and a subclass. It solves the wizard's huge pile of dull subclasses problem, and gives a basis for better differentiating the sorcerer from the wizard.
I can barely imagine them not doing all 8 schools as subclasses again, but if they did get rid off them and made it like a pact boon/evocation like feature that could be fun. They would need a class that could be the classic true one school focus. Let’s call it the Scholar. Scholar would be similar to land Druid gaining free prepared spells from its chosen school. Scholar features would augment that schools spell attack rolls and spell dc and or give free castings from that school. Then you could have bladesinger for Gish lovers, Theurgist who gains access to divine spells, and Naturalist that gains access to primal spells. At second level all wizards pick a school that comes with a feature to cut the cost of adding this schools spells to your spellbook and a 1evocation like ability associated with the school. At 3rd level you gain your subclass. Then at 6, 10, 14 your sub class features. You gain new school and 1 addition evocation like ability at 5,11,17. You can choose an ability from any of you schools. Scholars first subclass feature give them an additional evocation like ability and would allow them to forgo gaining a new school and getting an additional evocation like ability at those levels. So scholar could have 8 of the abilities under the same school at 17th level. Which if I sit down and work out what those would be for an hour or two I’m sure I could have something that would make people feel like they were an upgraded 5e evocation , divination, or etc school subclass. I’m sure WotC could do this as well. I doubt this is the plan, but when I have a moment I’m going to write out how this would look.
Well, there are already three subclasses that are not tied to schools of magic: Bladesinging, Scribes, and War Magic. Amended versions of those plus maybe one or two more could be the basic subclasses and then each Wizard could also specialize in a school of magic and get benefits from that.
I figure since it wouldn't make sense to move the Sorcerer's and Warlock's sub-classes past level 1 since they are the very reason of being part of those respective classes so I see them moving the Wizard's sub-class to level 1 to get the Mage group's sub-classes all align which would allow them to required joining the respective wizarding school to become a wizard and allows that school to give the character their first spell book in spite of when they joined.
So maybe 1,6,10,14 for mages. That sounds right, but what’s going to happen to priest? Everyone is different in that group. Clerics are 1, Druids are 2, and Paladins are 3. I would guess making them all 1,6,10,14 as well. Paladins could be much like a shadow sorcerers who get their sub class at 1, but has a feature that fully comes online at 3rd. So you get your oath at 1 but it fully works at 3rd. Anyway back on subject this 1,6,10,14 works for my Scholar, Bladesinger, Theurigist, Naturalist concepts, but as some have suggested WotC are more likely to stick with established subclasses. Bladesinger, Scribe, War and something new that works similar to traditional schools or a theurigist or onomacy to round out the last since they have been attempted in UA.