I did not play a 1DnD Rogue but I noticed that they pushed up Uncanny Dodge and Evasion to higher levels, as though the Rogue is just expected to stay out of the way of danger until they get to LV5. Compared to how early the 3.5e Rogue got those feats, it looks to me like they are actively trying to kill off the "edgelords" with this new edition.
I do feel like they fixed the skill balance for Rogues that 5e broke. In the older versions, Rogues were the only other class (besides Wizard) who relied heavily on INT due to INT being the ability that determined how well they advanced their skills. In 5e, INT is just useful for investigating secret doors and searching for traps--both of which can easily be bypassed by role-playing.
Yeah. And I do suspect the terrible Hiding rules soured a lot of the experience for the Rogue. It wasn't possible to be a ranged fighter. You could start in hiding maybe, fire a shot, then try to hide again with cunning action, but fail. So you end up letting the tank (in this case the ranger) run in first, then follow him to get sneak attack that way. But your damage is so low in comparison that it doesn't feel worth much. And there's just nothing left to do. Disengage, run back, disengage, and hope no one shoots you or just engages you alone. So often he was better of just shadowing the ranger and staying in melee making fewer and worse attacks. While the ranger could also cast control spells before the fight, and the bard could heal and inspire, the rogue was just backup damage. The Skulker feat was so necessary to make up for the Hide rules, that it's basically a tax that every rogue will have to take.
Right now, as I see it, the 1dnd ranger at L10 is inferior across the board to a L5 scout 1dnd rogue/5e Druid L5. It should be at least equal and actually superior in some ways or why even have it?
It is superior in some ways. In particular, it's a lot better in combat (more hit points, higher damage, better weapon and armor proficiencies) and has access to spells that substantially improve out of combat performance, such as goodberry and pass without trace.
Yes it has somewhat better hitpoints but the rogue/Druid can still use martial ( finesse) weapons and can use the same armors (except not metal depending on DM) and has the exact same spell capacity of the 1dnd ranger. It gets sneak attack which should help with staying even on the damage and uncanny dodge to reduce the need for those HP it doesn’t have. Like I said the ranger is not clearly superior, at best it is even and imho it should be clearly superior or why bother having it?
Right now, as I see it, the 1dnd ranger at L10 is inferior across the board to a L5 scout 1dnd rogue/5e Druid L5. It should be at least equal and actually superior in some ways or why even have it?
It is superior in some ways. In particular, it's a lot better in combat (more hit points, higher damage, better weapon and armor proficiencies) and has access to spells that substantially improve out of combat performance, such as goodberry and pass without trace.
Yes it has somewhat better hitpoints but the rogue/Druid can still use martial ( finesse) weapons and can use the same armors (except not metal depending on DM) and has the exact same spell capacity of the 1dnd ranger. It gets sneak attack which should help with staying even on the damage and uncanny dodge to reduce the need for those HP it doesn’t have. Like I said the ranger is not clearly superior, at best it is even and imho it should be clearly superior or why bother having it?
It has more hit points, extra attack, and roving and it's level 10 subclass feature. Deals more damage, has the same spells, has better health, and has better environmental maneuverability with climb and swim speeds. Subclass will make a difference though. Because you mentioned a specific rogue subclass so that it would match the skill expertise.
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I did not play a 1DnD Rogue but I noticed that they pushed up Uncanny Dodge and Evasion to higher levels, as though the Rogue is just expected to stay out of the way of danger until they get to LV5. Compared to how early the 3.5e Rogue got those feats, it looks to me like they are actively trying to kill off the "edgelords" with this new edition.
I do feel like they fixed the skill balance for Rogues that 5e broke. In the older versions, Rogues were the only other class (besides Wizard) who relied heavily on INT due to INT being the ability that determined how well they advanced their skills. In 5e, INT is just useful for investigating secret doors and searching for traps--both of which can easily be bypassed by role-playing.
~not a "lazy dungeon master"
Yeah. And I do suspect the terrible Hiding rules soured a lot of the experience for the Rogue. It wasn't possible to be a ranged fighter. You could start in hiding maybe, fire a shot, then try to hide again with cunning action, but fail. So you end up letting the tank (in this case the ranger) run in first, then follow him to get sneak attack that way. But your damage is so low in comparison that it doesn't feel worth much. And there's just nothing left to do. Disengage, run back, disengage, and hope no one shoots you or just engages you alone. So often he was better of just shadowing the ranger and staying in melee making fewer and worse attacks. While the ranger could also cast control spells before the fight, and the bard could heal and inspire, the rogue was just backup damage. The Skulker feat was so necessary to make up for the Hide rules, that it's basically a tax that every rogue will have to take.
Hawkeye of the last of the Mohicans is who I envision as a ranger.
Yes it has somewhat better hitpoints but the rogue/Druid can still use martial ( finesse) weapons and can use the same armors (except not metal depending on DM) and has the exact same spell capacity of the 1dnd ranger. It gets sneak attack which should help with staying even on the damage and uncanny dodge to reduce the need for those HP it doesn’t have. Like I said the ranger is not clearly superior, at best it is even and imho it should be clearly superior or why bother having it?
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
It has more hit points, extra attack, and roving and it's level 10 subclass feature. Deals more damage, has the same spells, has better health, and has better environmental maneuverability with climb and swim speeds. Subclass will make a difference though. Because you mentioned a specific rogue subclass so that it would match the skill expertise.