One thing that the new UA releases appear to have in mind is Accessibility. DnD is not the most difficult game on the market, but there is still a lot to learn. Some of this is further complicated by using strange terms from past editions, that we often take for granted. I just saw a thread from a new player that needed Hit Dice explained a little better. Hit Dice are definitely an archaic and odd game concept, that newer games would probably avoid altogether. But they are a part of DnD, and the designers are looking for more ways to use them, so they aren't going away.
Accessibility is very important for a game. It's necessary to attract new players. It's needed for younger players. And it's very important for players with different needs. Players with challenges reading, handling numbers, etc should all be made welcome to the game. And WotC seems to understand this, and are making some attempts to address it.
I'm not talking about how the new rules play out, their effectiveness, their power level, or their ability to fulfill a fantasy. Just how they are presented. Rules can be as complex and intricate as we can imagine, but can still be accessible if they are presented well and work intuitively.
Ways I think they are succeeding in making the game more accessible:
Offering suggested spells
Offering sample Backgrounds
Breaking rules down into clearly defined parts with names that can be referenced
Better definitions of keywords and conditions
Classes that work generally how you would expect them to if you follow their suggestions, even if the mechanics aren't ideal. Or at least, they play the way they are described in the UA.
Places I think they are failing:
Not providing class specific spell lists that take into account the school restrictions
Convoluted rules like different movement speeds
Not explaining some things well enough. There are still people who don't realize the Backgrounds are just examples and you are meant to build your own by default. Many questions I see online and in popular videos actually have answers in the documents, but they were overlooked.
What other examples can you think of? How can WotC prepare better documents in the future? What Accessibility steps would you like to see that could help you or your friends enjoy the game more?
Ummm... I'm aware I stomped off and everything, but I saw this topic and was reminded of something a friend said a while back that is probably relevant here.
Namely that he refused to get involved in D&D because he was afraid of all the math and the like involved. While experienced players may scoff at the idea, telling someone to 'roll 3d8's and then reroll any 1's' may be a bit much for at least some people. Nevermind 'Roll 12d6's' So... Maybe some method to play the game without actively rolling any dice? Or at least reduce any rolls to a bare minimum. Like, for example, with fireball, instead of 'deal 8d6 in a 150 foot radius' have something like 'deal 8d6 (24) in a 20 foot (4 square) radius'? Just include a bit making it clear that this is an optional rule meant for newcomers.
That's a really good idea. They already do it with monster damage. It would make sense to apply the idea to character rolls too. It would help people who have trouble adding a lot of dice, and help people visualize what those dice will generally mean. It would also be useful to everyone for comparing spells and abilities when creating characters. And for anyone just wanting to speed combat along.
Showing distances in squares would also be really helpful. A lot of people struggle to imagine the size of spell areas especially. And constant conversions from feet to squares for even normal movement or weapon ranges can get taxing.
I think these are both great suggestions, thank you!
Unless I forgot something, they made using different movement speeds together a hell of a lot simpler.
Before, it was quite confusing;
The amount of feet you had moved throughout the whole turn is subtracted from whatever movement speed you swap to. For example, moving 30 feet with 30 foot walking speed and then swapping to 60 feet flying speed would leave you with 30 feet of flying, whereas flying 30 feet with 60 foot flying speed and then swapping to 30 foot walking speed would leave you with 0 feet of movement.
Now, it's pretty easy:
You can't use 'em both.
Edit: They were also really clear about the backgrounds, I don't know how so many people missed that. Maybe the people who miss it are more likely to make remarks on it, so they seem to be much more numerous than they actually are due to projected voices.
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
Hm. Odd. I find the current 1DD way of handling movement to be extremely unintuitive and needlessly restrictive, when simply decrementing all speeds by distance moved during a turn is easy, simple, and logical.
Well, yes and no on the Speeds. I know the old ones weren't well liked for some. But the new ones did cause some confusion on these forums. The rules are split into 5 different sections in the UA. There are the move rules, the difficult terrain rules, the climb speed rules (with part of their rules in the move rules,) the swim speed rules (again split up with move rules,) and the fly speed rules. This might just be the UA formatting, but if it appears in the PHB this way it will cause the same confusion.
Normal movement is just called Speed, without any other indicator like 'Ground Speed' or 'Normal Speed,' which can cause confusion.
You can move your Speed normally, except in difficult terrain. If you have a Fly Speed, you can fly. If you have a Swim speed, you can swim. If you have a Climb Speed you can climb vertical surfaces. But if you look at the Move rules, you are told about Climb and Swim speeds, then told if you use your Speed, you move 1' for every 2' spent climbing or swimming, and if it's also difficult terrain (whatever that means underwater or on a cliff) it costs 3'. But because it just says 'Speed' on the section of Movement titled Climbing and Swimming, it can be misread as meaning those Climbing and Swimming Speeds. Then there's a special Climbing Speed called Spiderclimbing which is normal Climbing but upside down. That's in the Climb Speed Section. But back in the Move section, subsection Special Speeds, we are told about the other Speeds again, and that you can only use one per movement type you make. But if you go back to the Climbing Speed section you learn that you can use your Climbing Speed any time you can use your Speed. Which means your normal speed, but the only thing to inform you of that is the fact that it's capitalized. So once you catch that, you realize those rules in the Move section mean you can Climb along the ground so you don't have to break up normal 'Speed' movement and 'Climbing Speed' movement, making it the exception to the rule, no matter how silly that visual is.
And all of that is for what?
Every current (MoM) and UA player race, and every class feature we have seen so far, where you get a Climbing, Swimming, or Flying Speed says that it is equal to your Speed. That's your normal Speed. So there was never going to be any math to begin with when using some Speed to walk and some to swim, climb, or fly.
That means only monsters are affected, and very few of them. Which puts any math in the hands of the DM only. Or, since they are going to rewrite the whole Monster Manual anyway, they can fix that too.
So the rules are a mess, and unrealistic, to solve a problem that doesn't exist.
As for the backgrounds, that was another example of something many people missed. I can't say why, but the UA must not have been clear enough. There are dozens more examples like that. I watched at least one very respected DnD youtuber ask a series of questions about the Expert UA. Half of them were a surprise to me because the answers were in the UA. But if even a thorough, experienced game enthusiast can miss so many parts, what hope is there for new players? And there are some questions that everyone has that are still unanswered.
But the point of me putting these in this post specifically is about Accessibility. Not whether they can be understood eventually. But whether they are easy to understand for everyone on first read. And they definitely are not The strangest parts of them isn't even needed. They should be organized better, cleaned up, and better explained. And WotC could start with naming normal 'Speed' something better.
Hm. Odd. I find the current 1DD way of handling movement to be extremely unintuitive and needlessly restrictive, when simply decrementing all speeds by distance moved during a turn is easy, simple, and logical.
I agree. I found the old rules easier and more natural for breaking up movement. The new ones are weird and completely unnecessary.
Well, yes and no on the Speeds. I know the old ones weren't well liked for some. But the new ones did cause some confusion on these forums. The rules are split into 5 different sections in the UA. There are the move rules, the difficult terrain rules, the climb speed rules (with part of their rules in the move rules,) the swim speed rules (again split up with move rules,) and the fly speed rules. This might just be the UA formatting, but if it appears in the PHB this way it will cause the same confusion.
Normal movement is just called Speed, without any other indicator like 'Ground Speed' or 'Normal Speed,' which can cause confusion.
You can move your Speed normally, except in difficult terrain. If you have a Fly Speed, you can fly. If you have a Swim speed, you can swim. If you have a Climb Speed you can climb vertical surfaces. But if you look at the Move rules, you are told about Climb and Swim speeds, then told if you use your Speed, you move 1' for every 2' spent climbing or swimming, and if it's also difficult terrain (whatever that means underwater or on a cliff) it costs 3'. But because it just says 'Speed' on the section of Movement titled Climbing and Swimming, it can be misread as meaning those Climbing and Swimming Speeds. Then there's a special Climbing Speed called Spiderclimbing which is normal Climbing but upside down. That's in the Climb Speed Section. But back in the Move section, subsection Special Speeds, we are told about the other Speeds again, and that you can only use one per movement type you make. But if you go back to the Climbing Speed section you learn that you can use your Climbing Speed any time you can use your Speed. Which means your normal speed, but the only thing to inform you of that is the fact that it's capitalized. So once you catch that, you realize those rules in the Move section mean you can Climb along the ground so you don't have to break up normal 'Speed' movement and 'Climbing Speed' movement, making it the exception to the rule, no matter how silly that visual is.
And all of that is for what?
Every current (MoM) and UA player race, and every class feature we have seen so far, where you get a Climbing, Swimming, or Flying Speed says that it is equal to your Speed. That's your normal Speed. So there was never going to be any math to begin with when using some Speed to walk and some to swim, climb, or fly.
That means only monsters are affected, and very few of them. Which puts any math in the hands of the DM only. Or, since they are going to rewrite the whole Monster Manual anyway, they can fix that too.
So the rules are a mess, and unrealistic, to solve a problem that doesn't exist.
As for the backgrounds, that was another example of something many people missed. I can't say why, but the UA must not have been clear enough. There are dozens more examples like that. I watched at least one very respected DnD youtuber ask a series of questions about the Expert UA. Half of them were a surprise to me because the answers were in the UA. But if even a thorough, experienced game enthusiast can miss so many parts, what hope is there for new players? And there are some questions that everyone has that are still unanswered.
But the point of me putting these in this post specifically is about Accessibility. Not whether they can be understood eventually. But whether they are easy to understand for everyone on first read. And they definitely are not The strangest parts of them isn't even needed. They should be organized better, cleaned up, and better explained. And WotC could start with naming normal 'Speed' something better.
Fair point about the movement speed rules being spread all over the place. If they were organized like "Speed, Climbing" and "Speed, Swimming" (and then have all the redundancies removed), that would be a pretty simple way to make it clearer. When I read the cons, I read "different movement speeds" as meaning different movement speeds being used in the same turn, which I still stand by being made easier (not in the least part because it simply makes sense to have to dash to move into swimming or climbing).
I don't know what you're on about with regards to having differing base speed/special speeds. Many ways of gaining special speeds (spells and magic items), especially flying, give values that differ from base movement. Plus, it doesn't really make sense for every monster to be able to walk as fast as they can swim or fly, as you seem to be suggesting.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
All of the races and class features that give a character special speeds state that the speed is equal to your (normal) Speed. Almost every spell or effect that gives you a special speed says the same thing. Almost every spell or effect that increases your speed adds to your (normal) Speed. If your normal Speed is increased, the special speeds based on them are also increased.
The only spells left that I can think of are Fly (60' flying speed) and Gaseous Form (10' flying speed). Gaseous Form doesn't matter because you are gas. You can't enter liquid so you can't swim. And you don't need to walk or climb. Fly gives you flying speed, making walking, climbing, and swimming almost unnecessary. But if one spell has to be clarified for this instance, that's easy to do. It could say you gain a Flying Speed equal to your (Normal) Speed and can take a Dash action for free every turn. That gives you the same result without any weird rules.
For monsters, it is only a small percentage of them with special speeds different from their normal speed. I didn't say to make them all equal, just that they could be fixed in some way. Similar to the Fly spell. Or with a special rule here that they can only use one or the other. Or at the very least, since the movement rules don't affect PCs anyway, it leaves the math in the DMs control. And we can ask a little more of DMs if needed. It's just not needed for PCs in any way. The new rules are addressing a non-existent problem with an unnatural solution.
But again that's all besides the point. This thread is about Accessibility, so the focus was on the presentation of the rules. I think we can all at least agree that was a mess.
One of the big points of these UA documents is getting prototypes of the rules out in front of masses of players, then watching what gets debated about endlessly on the Internet. What everybody fights over interpreting or gets wrong, which is an unmistakable signal that you need to reexamine the presentation for that bit. We'll see updates, even if the document release cadence is way too slow.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Please do not contact or message me.
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One thing that the new UA releases appear to have in mind is Accessibility. DnD is not the most difficult game on the market, but there is still a lot to learn. Some of this is further complicated by using strange terms from past editions, that we often take for granted. I just saw a thread from a new player that needed Hit Dice explained a little better. Hit Dice are definitely an archaic and odd game concept, that newer games would probably avoid altogether. But they are a part of DnD, and the designers are looking for more ways to use them, so they aren't going away.
Accessibility is very important for a game. It's necessary to attract new players. It's needed for younger players. And it's very important for players with different needs. Players with challenges reading, handling numbers, etc should all be made welcome to the game. And WotC seems to understand this, and are making some attempts to address it.
I'm not talking about how the new rules play out, their effectiveness, their power level, or their ability to fulfill a fantasy. Just how they are presented. Rules can be as complex and intricate as we can imagine, but can still be accessible if they are presented well and work intuitively.
Ways I think they are succeeding in making the game more accessible:
Offering suggested spells
Offering sample Backgrounds
Breaking rules down into clearly defined parts with names that can be referenced
Better definitions of keywords and conditions
Classes that work generally how you would expect them to if you follow their suggestions, even if the mechanics aren't ideal. Or at least, they play the way they are described in the UA.
Places I think they are failing:
Not providing class specific spell lists that take into account the school restrictions
Convoluted rules like different movement speeds
Not explaining some things well enough. There are still people who don't realize the Backgrounds are just examples and you are meant to build your own by default. Many questions I see online and in popular videos actually have answers in the documents, but they were overlooked.
What other examples can you think of? How can WotC prepare better documents in the future? What Accessibility steps would you like to see that could help you or your friends enjoy the game more?
Ummm... I'm aware I stomped off and everything, but I saw this topic and was reminded of something a friend said a while back that is probably relevant here.
Namely that he refused to get involved in D&D because he was afraid of all the math and the like involved. While experienced players may scoff at the idea, telling someone to 'roll 3d8's and then reroll any 1's' may be a bit much for at least some people. Nevermind 'Roll 12d6's' So... Maybe some method to play the game without actively rolling any dice? Or at least reduce any rolls to a bare minimum. Like, for example, with fireball, instead of 'deal 8d6 in a 150 foot radius' have something like 'deal 8d6 (24) in a 20 foot (4 square) radius'? Just include a bit making it clear that this is an optional rule meant for newcomers.
That's a really good idea. They already do it with monster damage. It would make sense to apply the idea to character rolls too. It would help people who have trouble adding a lot of dice, and help people visualize what those dice will generally mean. It would also be useful to everyone for comparing spells and abilities when creating characters. And for anyone just wanting to speed combat along.
Showing distances in squares would also be really helpful. A lot of people struggle to imagine the size of spell areas especially. And constant conversions from feet to squares for even normal movement or weapon ranges can get taxing.
I think these are both great suggestions, thank you!
Unless I forgot something, they made using different movement speeds together a hell of a lot simpler.
Before, it was quite confusing;
The amount of feet you had moved throughout the whole turn is subtracted from whatever movement speed you swap to. For example, moving 30 feet with 30 foot walking speed and then swapping to 60 feet flying speed would leave you with 30 feet of flying, whereas flying 30 feet with 60 foot flying speed and then swapping to 30 foot walking speed would leave you with 0 feet of movement.
Now, it's pretty easy:
You can't use 'em both.
Edit: They were also really clear about the backgrounds, I don't know how so many people missed that. Maybe the people who miss it are more likely to make remarks on it, so they seem to be much more numerous than they actually are due to projected voices.
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
Hm. Odd. I find the current 1DD way of handling movement to be extremely unintuitive and needlessly restrictive, when simply decrementing all speeds by distance moved during a turn is easy, simple, and logical.
Please do not contact or message me.
Well, yes and no on the Speeds. I know the old ones weren't well liked for some. But the new ones did cause some confusion on these forums. The rules are split into 5 different sections in the UA. There are the move rules, the difficult terrain rules, the climb speed rules (with part of their rules in the move rules,) the swim speed rules (again split up with move rules,) and the fly speed rules. This might just be the UA formatting, but if it appears in the PHB this way it will cause the same confusion.
Normal movement is just called Speed, without any other indicator like 'Ground Speed' or 'Normal Speed,' which can cause confusion.
You can move your Speed normally, except in difficult terrain. If you have a Fly Speed, you can fly. If you have a Swim speed, you can swim. If you have a Climb Speed you can climb vertical surfaces. But if you look at the Move rules, you are told about Climb and Swim speeds, then told if you use your Speed, you move 1' for every 2' spent climbing or swimming, and if it's also difficult terrain (whatever that means underwater or on a cliff) it costs 3'. But because it just says 'Speed' on the section of Movement titled Climbing and Swimming, it can be misread as meaning those Climbing and Swimming Speeds. Then there's a special Climbing Speed called Spiderclimbing which is normal Climbing but upside down. That's in the Climb Speed Section. But back in the Move section, subsection Special Speeds, we are told about the other Speeds again, and that you can only use one per movement type you make. But if you go back to the Climbing Speed section you learn that you can use your Climbing Speed any time you can use your Speed. Which means your normal speed, but the only thing to inform you of that is the fact that it's capitalized. So once you catch that, you realize those rules in the Move section mean you can Climb along the ground so you don't have to break up normal 'Speed' movement and 'Climbing Speed' movement, making it the exception to the rule, no matter how silly that visual is.
And all of that is for what?
Every current (MoM) and UA player race, and every class feature we have seen so far, where you get a Climbing, Swimming, or Flying Speed says that it is equal to your Speed. That's your normal Speed. So there was never going to be any math to begin with when using some Speed to walk and some to swim, climb, or fly.
That means only monsters are affected, and very few of them. Which puts any math in the hands of the DM only. Or, since they are going to rewrite the whole Monster Manual anyway, they can fix that too.
So the rules are a mess, and unrealistic, to solve a problem that doesn't exist.
As for the backgrounds, that was another example of something many people missed. I can't say why, but the UA must not have been clear enough. There are dozens more examples like that. I watched at least one very respected DnD youtuber ask a series of questions about the Expert UA. Half of them were a surprise to me because the answers were in the UA. But if even a thorough, experienced game enthusiast can miss so many parts, what hope is there for new players? And there are some questions that everyone has that are still unanswered.
But the point of me putting these in this post specifically is about Accessibility. Not whether they can be understood eventually. But whether they are easy to understand for everyone on first read. And they definitely are not The strangest parts of them isn't even needed. They should be organized better, cleaned up, and better explained. And WotC could start with naming normal 'Speed' something better.
I agree. I found the old rules easier and more natural for breaking up movement. The new ones are weird and completely unnecessary.
Fair point about the movement speed rules being spread all over the place. If they were organized like "Speed, Climbing" and "Speed, Swimming" (and then have all the redundancies removed), that would be a pretty simple way to make it clearer. When I read the cons, I read "different movement speeds" as meaning different movement speeds being used in the same turn, which I still stand by being made easier (not in the least part because it simply makes sense to have to dash to move into swimming or climbing).
I don't know what you're on about with regards to having differing base speed/special speeds. Many ways of gaining special speeds (spells and magic items), especially flying, give values that differ from base movement. Plus, it doesn't really make sense for every monster to be able to walk as fast as they can swim or fly, as you seem to be suggesting.
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
All of the races and class features that give a character special speeds state that the speed is equal to your (normal) Speed. Almost every spell or effect that gives you a special speed says the same thing. Almost every spell or effect that increases your speed adds to your (normal) Speed. If your normal Speed is increased, the special speeds based on them are also increased.
The only spells left that I can think of are Fly (60' flying speed) and Gaseous Form (10' flying speed). Gaseous Form doesn't matter because you are gas. You can't enter liquid so you can't swim. And you don't need to walk or climb. Fly gives you flying speed, making walking, climbing, and swimming almost unnecessary. But if one spell has to be clarified for this instance, that's easy to do. It could say you gain a Flying Speed equal to your (Normal) Speed and can take a Dash action for free every turn. That gives you the same result without any weird rules.
For monsters, it is only a small percentage of them with special speeds different from their normal speed. I didn't say to make them all equal, just that they could be fixed in some way. Similar to the Fly spell. Or with a special rule here that they can only use one or the other. Or at the very least, since the movement rules don't affect PCs anyway, it leaves the math in the DMs control. And we can ask a little more of DMs if needed. It's just not needed for PCs in any way. The new rules are addressing a non-existent problem with an unnatural solution.
But again that's all besides the point. This thread is about Accessibility, so the focus was on the presentation of the rules. I think we can all at least agree that was a mess.
One of the big points of these UA documents is getting prototypes of the rules out in front of masses of players, then watching what gets debated about endlessly on the Internet. What everybody fights over interpreting or gets wrong, which is an unmistakable signal that you need to reexamine the presentation for that bit. We'll see updates, even if the document release cadence is way too slow.
Please do not contact or message me.