Reason for 5 foot vert is easy to understand. They are still basing most things on a grid and each square is still 5 feet. So smallest increment is basically 5 feet. It is why the min jump is 5 feet and the DC is 10 with the jump distance = dice roll.
Maybe it's just my personal viewpoint, but I wouldn't call someone who is not very good at solving problems or having trouble remembering things "highly functioning". Lacking in either of those two things, at least in our modern society, limits your options or requires serious workarounds.
I just don't think that's true at all. Because it all depends on the scale you are using. If a 10 represents your average person, a 3 is far below average on those specific things. But that doesn't mean they are so diabled by the stat that they can't perform everyday functions. A Strength score of 10 means you can carry 150 lbs without penalty. A Strength score of 3 means you can carry 45 lbs. I would say that includes a lot of highly functional people in the world. The Intelligence scale should be considered to cover a similar range.
Intelligence is just a game mechanic abstract of only one part of your mental capacity. Plenty of people aren't great problem solvers, or don't recall their history lessons well. It doesn't make them dumb or incapable of functioning in every day life. They can certainly walk, talk, and hold down a job without any assistance. If they lived in the Forgotten Realms, they could swing a sword, or pick a pocket, or pray for healing. They wouldn't be the best at memorizing Wizard spells from a book, but that's exactly what the stat is for.
I mean, an intelligence of 3 means you are as smart as a mastiff (Int. 3), and slightly smarter than a cow (Int. 2). It seems like that would make daily functioning pretty tough.
Reason for 5 foot vert is easy to understand. They are still basing most things on a grid and each square is still 5 feet. So smallest increment is basically 5 feet. It is why the min jump is 5 feet and the DC is 10 with the jump distance = dice roll.
I understand the game mechanic behind it, its just kind of absurd.
Maybe it's just my personal viewpoint, but I wouldn't call someone who is not very good at solving problems or having trouble remembering things "highly functioning". Lacking in either of those two things, at least in our modern society, limits your options or requires serious workarounds.
I just don't think that's true at all. Because it all depends on the scale you are using. If a 10 represents your average person, a 3 is far below average on those specific things. But that doesn't mean they are so diabled by the stat that they can't perform everyday functions. A Strength score of 10 means you can carry 150 lbs without penalty. A Strength score of 3 means you can carry 45 lbs. I would say that includes a lot of highly functional people in the world. The Intelligence scale should be considered to cover a similar range.
Intelligence is just a game mechanic abstract of only one part of your mental capacity. Plenty of people aren't great problem solvers, or don't recall their history lessons well. It doesn't make them dumb or incapable of functioning in every day life. They can certainly walk, talk, and hold down a job without any assistance. If they lived in the Forgotten Realms, they could swing a sword, or pick a pocket, or pray for healing. They wouldn't be the best at memorizing Wizard spells from a book, but that's exactly what the stat is for.
I mean, an intelligence of 3 means you are as smart as a mastiff (Int. 3), and slightly smarter than a cow (Int. 2). It seems like that would make daily functioning pretty tough.
From what I understand, Steg's reasoning is that the mastiff and cow just happen to have those INT scores but it says nothing of how "sapient" they are in general. So a commoner or a thug could have 3 INT too if they're just really bad at problem solving and memory, but they can still hold down a job.
I don't see how it's an issue of sapience, though. For the ability scores to mean anything, they have to be consistent. So, a person with an intelligence of 3 has the problem solving ability of the average dog. My dog has issues solving the problem of "where is the ball" when I hide it behind my back. A person with similar problem solving abilities definitely would have problems holding down a job.
Maybe it's just my personal viewpoint, but I wouldn't call someone who is not very good at solving problems or having trouble remembering things "highly functioning". Lacking in either of those two things, at least in our modern society, limits your options or requires serious workarounds.
I just don't think that's true at all. Because it all depends on the scale you are using. If a 10 represents your average person, a 3 is far below average on those specific things. But that doesn't mean they are so diabled by the stat that they can't perform everyday functions. A Strength score of 10 means you can carry 150 lbs without penalty. A Strength score of 3 means you can carry 45 lbs. I would say that includes a lot of highly functional people in the world. The Intelligence scale should be considered to cover a similar range.
Intelligence is just a game mechanic abstract of only one part of your mental capacity. Plenty of people aren't great problem solvers, or don't recall their history lessons well. It doesn't make them dumb or incapable of functioning in every day life. They can certainly walk, talk, and hold down a job without any assistance. If they lived in the Forgotten Realms, they could swing a sword, or pick a pocket, or pray for healing. They wouldn't be the best at memorizing Wizard spells from a book, but that's exactly what the stat is for.
I mean, an intelligence of 3 means you are as smart as a mastiff (Int. 3), and slightly smarter than a cow (Int. 2). It seems like that would make daily functioning pretty tough.
From what I understand, Steg's reasoning is that the mastiff and cow just happen to have those INT scores but it says nothing of how "sapient" they are in general. So a commoner or a thug could have 3 INT too if they're just really bad at problem solving and memory, but they can still hold down a job.
I don't see how it's an issue of sapience, though. For the ability scores to mean anything, they have to be consistent. So, a person with an intelligence of 3 has the problem solving ability of the average dog. My dog has issues solving the problem of "where is the ball" when I hide it behind my back. A person with similar problem solving abilities definitely would have problems holding down a job.
I think the reasoning is that a 3 for a dog is somewhat different. Yeah they wont be doing math or anything, but they will have core survival skills, instincts etc down that a human wont. So a 3 human wont have those built in instincts and survival skills but they will have language, ability to learn basic job skills down.
The core issue will be the +1 per and the d20, it creates a weird mechanic where the best and worst really are not far apart in stats. The strongest and weakest will have vastly different lifting skills as that is one of the few areas it kicks in on a fast linear scale, but if they arm wrestled the best and worst wont be that far apart. 50% or so. And if you are not talking strongest just average vs weakest the weakest will stil win the arm wrestling competitions like 30% of the time.
Other stats don't have a lift/push function all they have are the die rolls, so mechanically the 3 int person is about disadvantage worse than the normal person.
Maybe it's just my personal viewpoint, but I wouldn't call someone who is not very good at solving problems or having trouble remembering things "highly functioning". Lacking in either of those two things, at least in our modern society, limits your options or requires serious workarounds.
I just don't think that's true at all. Because it all depends on the scale you are using. If a 10 represents your average person, a 3 is far below average on those specific things. But that doesn't mean they are so diabled by the stat that they can't perform everyday functions. A Strength score of 10 means you can carry 150 lbs without penalty. A Strength score of 3 means you can carry 45 lbs. I would say that includes a lot of highly functional people in the world. The Intelligence scale should be considered to cover a similar range.
Intelligence is just a game mechanic abstract of only one part of your mental capacity. Plenty of people aren't great problem solvers, or don't recall their history lessons well. It doesn't make them dumb or incapable of functioning in every day life. They can certainly walk, talk, and hold down a job without any assistance. If they lived in the Forgotten Realms, they could swing a sword, or pick a pocket, or pray for healing. They wouldn't be the best at memorizing Wizard spells from a book, but that's exactly what the stat is for.
I mean, an intelligence of 3 means you are as smart as a mastiff (Int. 3), and slightly smarter than a cow (Int. 2). It seems like that would make daily functioning pretty tough.
From what I understand, Steg's reasoning is that the mastiff and cow just happen to have those INT scores but it says nothing of how "sapient" they are in general. So a commoner or a thug could have 3 INT too if they're just really bad at problem solving and memory, but they can still hold down a job.
Right, that's basically what I'm saying. If you were to measure a dog's ability to remember their lessons at school, they will probably remember sit, stay, and heel. But they won't be very good at pulling up facts from Arcana class obviously. Neither are a lot of people.
A crow is pretty good at problem solving. Better than some people maybe. But they aren't going to solve a mystery like Sherlock. Neither can most people.
These are just the parts of how a creature's mind works that Intelligence specifically deals with. There are still many other things that make a person 'sapient.' Animals will also happen to score low in them, but it doesn't mean the person with a low score is thinking like an animal.
A 3 Intelligence is definitely the absolute bottom for PC scores. With Point Buy, you can't get lower than 8. That's closer to what we'd actually see in practice. I imagine that at least hundreds of millions of normal people in the world are an 8. Most people will be in the 8-12 range. They'll have specific skills they are very good at, just like PCs. But overall knowledge might be lacking.
I know many people that can't remember a thing they learned about History, but they're really good at their job. They hold normal conversations, dress themselves in the morning, cook dinner. They might not all be the most talented people. But they have a few topics they are strong on. That's how skills offset low base scores.
A character with a 6 Int has a -2 modifier to all general Intelligence rolls. That's just 10% more likely to fail. Let's say they have a +4 in Nature though. That's better than the average person now. They are great at gardening and identifying trees. They will never be a botanist like the character with 20 Int and expertise in Nature. But they're definitely good enough to run a nursery.
Even an Int 3 Commoner can probably do just fine as a farmer, or a laborer, or any number of jobs in the DnD world. They might even be a fine warrior. They won't be teaching Alchemy at the university. But they won't be rolling in mud and barking like a dog either. Because they're still a sapient being.
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
A crow is pretty good at problem solving. Better than some people maybe. But they aren't going to solve a mystery like Sherlock. Neither can most people.
I hope the crow/raven in One D&D doesn't have an INT of 2 this time. You can tell that whoever made the beast stat blocks in the Monster Manual either tried way too hard to balance them for beast-related player features, or wasn't the most well-versed in animal intelligence.
At least give them a good Investigation bonus, right? They're so clever, they deserve that much. :)
I understand the game mechanic behind it, its just kind of absurd.
Under old rules, an elephant could jump 22 feet long, or 9 feet high. In 1DnD, it can jump 5-28 feet long, or up to 14 feet high. Now that's absurd.
Especially considering an Elephant can jump exactly 0 feet in real life. That's a great catch. I'm about to surprise my players with some fantasy flying elephants now. XD
Under old rules, an elephant could jump 22 feet long, or 9 feet high. In 1DnD, it can jump 5-28 feet long, or up to 14 feet high. Now that's absurd.
Especially considering an Elephant can jump exactly 0 feet in real life. That's a great catch. I'm about to surprise my players with some fantasy flying elephants now. XD
"Wait, why are these elephants all dressed like luchadores?"
Under old rules, an elephant could jump 22 feet long, or 9 feet high. In 1DnD, it can jump 5-28 feet long, or up to 14 feet high. Now that's absurd.
Especially considering an Elephant can jump exactly 0 feet in real life. That's a great catch. I'm about to surprise my players with some fantasy flying elephants now. XD
"Wait, why are these elephants all dressed like luchadores?"
It is about time I told you about dire elephant. An elephant on steroids from 3.5e. Thing is, it had... climbing speed. And it was a herd animal. 6-30 dire elephants, hanging on the cliffside right over your head. Then they attack. Because they're dire.
It is about time I told you about dire elephant. An elephant on steroids from 3.5e. Thing is, it had... climbing speed. And it was a herd animal. 6-30 dire elephants, hanging on the cliffside right over your head. Then they attack. Because they're dire.
Oh dear, that does sound dire...
So you're saying Luchaderms could potentially climb up on a hypothetical square shaped ring of ropes to get extra height for jumping onto the players.
Interesting. I'll just note that down for purely scientific reasons. :)
Well, the feedback period for the Cleric has ended. I wonder when we might see the next UA installment. I am also curious if the OGL conversation happening right now is going to put a delay on their release schedule or not.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Three-time Judge of the Competition of the Finest Brews!Come join us in making fun, unique homebrew and voting for your favorite entries!
IIRC the last two were released on Thursdays, right? So maybe if we are lucky we will get the next iteration in the next few days with the start of Feb
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Three-time Judge of the Competition of the Finest Brews!Come join us in making fun, unique homebrew and voting for your favorite entries!
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Reason for 5 foot vert is easy to understand. They are still basing most things on a grid and each square is still 5 feet. So smallest increment is basically 5 feet. It is why the min jump is 5 feet and the DC is 10 with the jump distance = dice roll.
I mean, an intelligence of 3 means you are as smart as a mastiff (Int. 3), and slightly smarter than a cow (Int. 2). It seems like that would make daily functioning pretty tough.
I understand the game mechanic behind it, its just kind of absurd.
I don't see how it's an issue of sapience, though. For the ability scores to mean anything, they have to be consistent. So, a person with an intelligence of 3 has the problem solving ability of the average dog. My dog has issues solving the problem of "where is the ball" when I hide it behind my back. A person with similar problem solving abilities definitely would have problems holding down a job.
I think the reasoning is that a 3 for a dog is somewhat different. Yeah they wont be doing math or anything, but they will have core survival skills, instincts etc down that a human wont. So a 3 human wont have those built in instincts and survival skills but they will have language, ability to learn basic job skills down.
The core issue will be the +1 per and the d20, it creates a weird mechanic where the best and worst really are not far apart in stats. The strongest and weakest will have vastly different lifting skills as that is one of the few areas it kicks in on a fast linear scale, but if they arm wrestled the best and worst wont be that far apart. 50% or so. And if you are not talking strongest just average vs weakest the weakest will stil win the arm wrestling competitions like 30% of the time.
Other stats don't have a lift/push function all they have are the die rolls, so mechanically the 3 int person is about disadvantage worse than the normal person.
Right, that's basically what I'm saying. If you were to measure a dog's ability to remember their lessons at school, they will probably remember sit, stay, and heel. But they won't be very good at pulling up facts from Arcana class obviously. Neither are a lot of people.
A crow is pretty good at problem solving. Better than some people maybe. But they aren't going to solve a mystery like Sherlock. Neither can most people.
These are just the parts of how a creature's mind works that Intelligence specifically deals with. There are still many other things that make a person 'sapient.' Animals will also happen to score low in them, but it doesn't mean the person with a low score is thinking like an animal.
A 3 Intelligence is definitely the absolute bottom for PC scores. With Point Buy, you can't get lower than 8. That's closer to what we'd actually see in practice. I imagine that at least hundreds of millions of normal people in the world are an 8. Most people will be in the 8-12 range. They'll have specific skills they are very good at, just like PCs. But overall knowledge might be lacking.
I know many people that can't remember a thing they learned about History, but they're really good at their job. They hold normal conversations, dress themselves in the morning, cook dinner. They might not all be the most talented people. But they have a few topics they are strong on. That's how skills offset low base scores.
A character with a 6 Int has a -2 modifier to all general Intelligence rolls. That's just 10% more likely to fail. Let's say they have a +4 in Nature though. That's better than the average person now. They are great at gardening and identifying trees. They will never be a botanist like the character with 20 Int and expertise in Nature. But they're definitely good enough to run a nursery.
Even an Int 3 Commoner can probably do just fine as a farmer, or a laborer, or any number of jobs in the DnD world. They might even be a fine warrior. They won't be teaching Alchemy at the university. But they won't be rolling in mud and barking like a dog either. Because they're still a sapient being.
Under old rules, an elephant could jump 22 feet long, or 9 feet high. In 1DnD, it can jump 5-28 feet long, or up to 14 feet high. Now that's absurd.
I guess, but its not like as a DM I'm having my elephants jump.
*looks at elephant trampoline park outside*
What's so absurd about it?
If elephants want to jump that well, I say we let them. If they don't want to, then that's their choice.
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
At least give them a good Investigation bonus, right? They're so clever, they deserve that much. :)
Especially considering an Elephant can jump exactly 0 feet in real life. That's a great catch. I'm about to surprise my players with some fantasy flying elephants now. XD
"Wait, why are these elephants all dressed like luchadores?"
Thank you for making a bad idea even better :D
*Bows*
It is about time I told you about dire elephant. An elephant on steroids from 3.5e. Thing is, it had... climbing speed. And it was a herd animal. 6-30 dire elephants, hanging on the cliffside right over your head. Then they attack. Because they're dire.
Oh dear, that does sound dire...
So you're saying Luchaderms could potentially climb up on a hypothetical square shaped ring of ropes to get extra height for jumping onto the players.
Interesting. I'll just note that down for purely scientific reasons. :)
Well, the feedback period for the Cleric has ended. I wonder when we might see the next UA installment. I am also curious if the OGL conversation happening right now is going to put a delay on their release schedule or not.
Three-time Judge of the Competition of the Finest Brews! Come join us in making fun, unique homebrew and voting for your favorite entries!
Does anyone know when the next UA is coming out?
Now that it looks like the OGL drama is over, I guess there should be one soon. In February probably, right?
I don't know if anything has been said about it.
IIRC the last two were released on Thursdays, right? So maybe if we are lucky we will get the next iteration in the next few days with the start of Feb
Three-time Judge of the Competition of the Finest Brews! Come join us in making fun, unique homebrew and voting for your favorite entries!