Quote They should focus on balance and not how some dude in a office 2,000 miles away can tell you how to play a class.
I'm advocating the opposite - stick to the lore and traditional roles, not listen to a few folks on keyboards 2000 miles away that want to change it. We can disagree. They've already taken the distinctiveness from the races so the classes will likely follow along group lines. WotC will likely agree with you...
Quote They should focus on balance and not how some dude in a office 2,000 miles away can tell you how to play a class.
I'm advocating the opposite - stick to the lore and traditional roles, not listen to a few folks on keyboards 2000 miles away that want to change it. We can disagree. They've already taken the distinctiveness from the races so the classes will likely follow along group lines. WotC will likely agree with you...
I think that the distinctiveness of the Paladin is that they are a warrior driven by the pursuit of an ideal, either personified as a deity or conceived as an absolute principle, who is in turn empowered by that ideal. The traditional D&D archetype is the knight in shining armour, but how about a community of halflings or forest gnomes, defending their homes by stealthy shots from the undergrowth? Would a member of that community, called upon by their gods to be their champion against the dire, existential threat, inevitably deck themselves in chainmail and a longsword, or might they fight as they have always done? How about a Tabaxi who believes that to fight with manufactured weapons would be to spurn the gift of claws granted by the Cat Lord?
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say I'm in favor of the changes to Divine Smite, even if long-distance Smiting ends up not staying. Cutting down on the number of times a dingdong can Smite in one round puts a lot less emphasis on saving every last single spell slot for SuperMegaUltraSmitenanigans and allows dingdongs more access to their actual spellcasting. I understand the restrictions and agree with their impact even if it's technically a big nerf to dingdongs. Frankly the class has been so head and shoulders above every other class in D&D for so long that I'm amazed it didn't get hit harder. Everything else was more or less left intact, including the best non-Spellcasting class feature in R5e. Which came as a real shock to me, lemme tell ye.
I'm fine with the smites being once per turn and not critting. And I do like the changes to Smite spells. Might actually make them used more often. I don't care for allowing ranged weapons for smites. And really, I don't care for the smite spells being on the divine list so that Clerics can outdo paladins upcasting and getting them earlier. Would rather they removed them from the Divine list and made them as Paladin specific additional spells, or a class feature improving on Divine Smite.
Overall, I don't mind the Paladin changes that much. Not perfect, but toned down enough. Now the Druid on the other hand....
Edit: not sure how I feel about paladins having access to the entire divine spell list yet rangers (the other half caster in the PHB) gets primal except Evocation spells
Quote They should focus on balance and not how some dude in a office 2,000 miles away can tell you how to play a class.
I'm advocating the opposite - stick to the lore and traditional roles, not listen to a few folks on keyboards 2000 miles away that want to change it. We can disagree. They've already taken the distinctiveness from the races so the classes will likely follow along group lines. WotC will likely agree with you...
I think that the distinctiveness of the Paladin is that they are a warrior driven by the pursuit of an ideal, either personified as a deity or conceived as an absolute principle, who is in turn empowered by that ideal. The traditional D&D archetype is the knight in shining armour, but how about a community of halflings or forest gnomes, defending their homes by stealthy shots from the undergrowth? Would a member of that community, called upon by their gods to be their champion against the dire, existential threat, inevitably deck themselves in chainmail and a longsword, or might they fight as they have always done? How about a Tabaxi who believes that to fight with manufactured weapons would be to spurn the gift of claws granted by the Cat Lord?
Okay, I can see your point. I think they still feel like they've blurred with the Cleric. The 6th level Protective Smite feature is a prime example. I mentioned this potential change in another thread.
Your Divine Smite now radiates protective energy targetedthat allows you and your allies to stay in the fight against evil. Your divine smite now increases by 1d8 if the target is an undead or a fiend. Whenever you use your Divine Smite, choose yourself or an ally within 30 feet of yourself. The chosen creature gains Temporary Hit Points equal to 1d8 plus the level of the Spell Slot used for the Divine Smiteis now under the effects of the Protection from evil and good for 1 minute.
This brings back the feel of a Paladin feature instead of a Cleric one. Protection from evil and good might be useful in less instances (nerf), but definitely has more of a Paladin feel when coupled with bringing back dead and fiend targets.
... And really, I don't care for the smite spells being on the divine list so that Clerics can outdo paladins upcasting and getting them earlier. ...
Honestly? I actually consider this a feature rather than a bug. Warrior clerics are supposed to exist - War and Tempest have been starving for better melee options for years now, and a lot of other cleric builds want to actually make use of traditional cleric hammer/mace gameplay. Allowing clerics to prepare a Smite spell or two lets them actually be effective in the scrum to an extent. It honestly fits - clerics are more able to channel divine power, but a paladin's martial training grant them better baseline combat with Extra Attack and a Fighting Style - they don't need Smites to be effective martial combatants.
I mean, they're moving away from coding specialization by Domain anyways from the look of it. Also, if they really want to give the melee oriented ones a smite, they can use Domain Spells for it. I rather doubt any War Clerics will be be upset by having Magic Weapon swapped out for Branding/Glimmering Smite (it's presently been renamed in the UA).
Or, alternatively, people could just accept that not every cool feature they might want needs to be crammed into a class. Honestly I'd rather we got back to class spell lists, but sadly that seems unlikely.
Honestly? I actually consider this a feature rather than a bug. Warrior clerics are supposed to exist - War and Tempest have been starving for better melee options for years now, and a lot of other cleric builds want to actually make use of traditional cleric hammer/mace gameplay. Allowing clerics to prepare a Smite spell or two lets them actually be effective in the scrum to an extent. It honestly fits - clerics are more able to channel divine power, but a paladin's martial training grant them better baseline combat with Extra Attack and a Fighting Style - they don't need Smites to be effective martial combatants.
At first, I was going to object this, but then I remembered that Bladesinger exists. So yeah, why not, actually. If you deliberately spec into it.
... And really, I don't care for the smite spells being on the divine list so that Clerics can outdo paladins upcasting and getting them earlier. ...
Honestly? I actually consider this a feature rather than a bug. Warrior clerics are supposed to exist - War and Tempest have been starving for better melee options for years now, and a lot of other cleric builds want to actually make use of traditional cleric hammer/mace gameplay. Allowing clerics to prepare a Smite spell or two lets them actually be effective in the scrum to an extent. It honestly fits - clerics are more able to channel divine power, but a paladin's martial training grant them better baseline combat with Extra Attack and a Fighting Style - they don't need Smites to be effective martial combatants.
It’s the fact that clerics will get them sooner and will be able to upcast them higher (if they want to burn the higher slots) than a paladin will ever be able to that I have the issue with. But that comes with clerics having it on their list.
Clerics in the UA have blessed strikes to boost their melee and cantrip damage. And these spells could be included in their domain list if they feel War or Tempest could use a few of them.
Edit: And now that the spells have been revised they are a more attractive option with decent damage and a rider effect that you don’t have to use until you hit.
Edit 2: paladins can go into melee with heavy armor and shield and Divine Smite or spell Smite. Clerics can go into melee with heavy armor and shield (holy order) with spell smite and spiritual weapon (which scales better now) or spirit guardian also going, plus Blessed strikes. Though I guess paladins have SW and SG as well now. Which I also don’t care for (Paladins having the entire divine list)
I'm advocating the opposite - stick to the lore and traditional roles, not listen to a few folks on keyboards 2000 miles away that want to change it. We can disagree. They've already taken the distinctiveness from the races so the classes will likely follow along group lines. WotC will likely agree with you...
I think that the distinctiveness of the Paladin is that they are a warrior driven by the pursuit of an ideal, either personified as a deity or conceived as an absolute principle, who is in turn empowered by that ideal. The traditional D&D archetype is the knight in shining armour, but how about a community of halflings or forest gnomes, defending their homes by stealthy shots from the undergrowth? Would a member of that community, called upon by their gods to be their champion against the dire, existential threat, inevitably deck themselves in chainmail and a longsword, or might they fight as they have always done? How about a Tabaxi who believes that to fight with manufactured weapons would be to spurn the gift of claws granted by the Cat Lord?
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say I'm in favor of the changes to Divine Smite, even if long-distance Smiting ends up not staying. Cutting down on the number of times a dingdong can Smite in one round puts a lot less emphasis on saving every last single spell slot for SuperMegaUltraSmitenanigans and allows dingdongs more access to their actual spellcasting. I understand the restrictions and agree with their impact even if it's technically a big nerf to dingdongs. Frankly the class has been so head and shoulders above every other class in D&D for so long that I'm amazed it didn't get hit harder. Everything else was more or less left intact, including the best non-Spellcasting class feature in R5e. Which came as a real shock to me, lemme tell ye.
Please do not contact or message me.
I'm fine with the smites being once per turn and not critting. And I do like the changes to Smite spells. Might actually make them used more often. I don't care for allowing ranged weapons for smites. And really, I don't care for the smite spells being on the divine list so that Clerics can outdo paladins upcasting and getting them earlier. Would rather they removed them from the Divine list and made them as Paladin specific additional spells, or a class feature improving on Divine Smite.
Overall, I don't mind the Paladin changes that much. Not perfect, but toned down enough. Now the Druid on the other hand....
Edit: not sure how I feel about paladins having access to the entire divine spell list yet rangers (the other half caster in the PHB) gets primal except Evocation spells
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
Okay, I can see your point. I think they still feel like they've blurred with the Cleric. The 6th level Protective Smite feature is a prime example. I mentioned this potential change in another thread.
Your Divine Smite now radiates
protectiveenergy targeted that allows you and your allies to stay in the fight against evil. Your divine smite now increases by 1d8 if the target is an undead or a fiend. Whenever you use your Divine Smite, choose yourself or an ally within 30 feet of yourself. The chosen creature gains Temporary Hit Points equal to 1d8 plus the level of the Spell Slot used for the Divine Smite is now under the effects of the Protection from evil and good for 1 minute.This brings back the feel of a Paladin feature instead of a Cleric one. Protection from evil and good might be useful in less instances (nerf), but definitely has more of a Paladin feel when coupled with bringing back dead and fiend targets.
Honestly? I actually consider this a feature rather than a bug. Warrior clerics are supposed to exist - War and Tempest have been starving for better melee options for years now, and a lot of other cleric builds want to actually make use of traditional cleric hammer/mace gameplay. Allowing clerics to prepare a Smite spell or two lets them actually be effective in the scrum to an extent. It honestly fits - clerics are more able to channel divine power, but a paladin's martial training grant them better baseline combat with Extra Attack and a Fighting Style - they don't need Smites to be effective martial combatants.
Please do not contact or message me.
I mean, they're moving away from coding specialization by Domain anyways from the look of it. Also, if they really want to give the melee oriented ones a smite, they can use Domain Spells for it. I rather doubt any War Clerics will be be upset by having Magic Weapon swapped out for Branding/Glimmering Smite (it's presently been renamed in the UA).
Or, alternatively, people could just accept that not every cool feature they might want needs to be crammed into a class. Honestly I'd rather we got back to class spell lists, but sadly that seems unlikely.
At first, I was going to object this, but then I remembered that Bladesinger exists. So yeah, why not, actually. If you deliberately spec into it.
It’s the fact that clerics will get them sooner and will be able to upcast them higher (if they want to burn the higher slots) than a paladin will ever be able to that I have the issue with. But that comes with clerics having it on their list.
Clerics in the UA have blessed strikes to boost their melee and cantrip damage. And these spells could be included in their domain list if they feel War or Tempest could use a few of them.
Edit: And now that the spells have been revised they are a more attractive option with decent damage and a rider effect that you don’t have to use until you hit.
Edit 2: paladins can go into melee with heavy armor and shield and Divine Smite or spell Smite. Clerics can go into melee with heavy armor and shield (holy order) with spell smite and spiritual weapon (which scales better now) or spirit guardian also going, plus Blessed strikes. Though I guess paladins have SW and SG as well now. Which I also don’t care for (Paladins having the entire divine list)
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?