Well at least they listened that we don't want a set of bland statblocks. However, it seems like he still thinks of WS as a primarily an in-combat ability, which makes me doubt that we'll get the true diversity and utility we see in 5e even in the next round of updates.
Well at least they listened that we don't want a set of bland statblocks. However, it seems like he still thinks of WS as a primarily an in-combat ability, which makes me doubt that we'll get the true diversity and utility we see in 5e even in the next round of updates.
I think that depends on what they see in the survey. I am at least satisfied that they realize that the templates need customization (which could address the out of combat role) or they could possibly go to a curated set of monster stat blocks that would be in the PHB.
Mostly good, and they noticed that people didn't like sneak attack being limited to only the rogue's turn, honestly it was a nerf to Battlemaster Fighter + Rogue synergy for commander's strike.
People not liking college of lore not have additional magical secrets, Will have to see how they handle that.
I still feel like they have not addressed that Ranger gets most of it's power in the early game with the current set-up, or what needs to be done to make ranger more viable for higher-levels, over becoming more used for multiclassing.
The talk about Druid mentioned a lot of things, but really glossed over that one of the biggest complaints is that wildshape forms right now are not the most viable due to the loss of the replaced HP block, sure AC is higher than 5E and you could get shield spell, but it's not a great solution to the issue. The AC is still super low for a class going into melee and burning spell slots isn't really the answer to that, you could cast shield while not wild-shaped and still have a higher AC than being wildshaped, it's not a fix to this fundamental issue. Also glossed over how much you lose when going into wildshape as is right now. It needs a lot more work. More templates is a simple solution to some of these issues and choices within templates further too that but fundamentally, the wildshape forms just need to be beefier than they are in UA.
Mentioned a lot about ranged paladin, didn't really mention anything about find steed, but they didn't go into any feat/spell in this discussion, even tho I think concentration free hunter's mark for ranger should have been mentioned how it's a little OP'ed for 1 level of ranger.
Also, you should embed the video to make it easier for people visiting the thread, there is a youtube play button to make it easier when making/editing posts.
Yeah, they were talking about how much more durable your wild shape is than it used to be... and it isn't. The only situation where the new wild shape is usefully more durable is for flying forms, because turning a flying form to scout, getting fireballed, then taking another 20d6 from falling when your wild shape ends, is kinda... fatal.
Yeah, they were talking about how much more durable your wild shape is than it used to be... and it isn't. The only situation where the new wild shape is usefully more durable is for flying forms, because turning a flying form to scout, getting fireballed, then taking another 20d6 from falling when your wild shape ends, is kinda... fatal.
He's technically not wrong, in the new version being a tiny rat you'd still have like a str of 16-18 since its based on wis score, and whatever your HP total is while having an ac of 15ish.
Compare that to currently if you turned into a rat you'd have an AC of 10, 1 HP and a str of 2, and with that said he is right the new wild shape in a tiny form IS a lot more durable than prior
Keep in mind him talking about wildshape being more durable was in the CONTEXT of the tiny form, not wildshape overall. He was talking about why tiny is lvl 11
It is reassuring to know that even if we do get stuck with templates they'll at least give them customization so different animals actually feel different. I'd still prefer Monster Manual Wildshape, though. Having a few curated sets of forms for different environments like in Xanathar's seems like a good compromise so long as there's an option to make your own form list for more exotic druids.
This also explains the bizarre change to Tiny Form. Frankly, I'd rather Tiny just be its own template that reflects its... Well, tiny size, rather than having it use the same template as other beasts.
Mostly good, and they noticed that people didn't like sneak attack being limited to only the rogue's turn, honestly it was a nerf to Battlemaster Fighter + Rogue synergy for commander's strike.
People not liking college of lore not have additional magical secrets, Will have to see how they handle that.
I still feel like they have not addressed that Ranger gets most of it's power in the early game with the current set-up, or what needs to be done to make ranger more viable for higher-levels, over becoming more used for multiclassing.
The talk about Druid mentioned a lot of things, but really glossed over that one of the biggest complaints is that wildshape forms right now are not the most viable due to the loss of the replaced HP block, sure AC is higher than 5E and you could get shield spell, but it's not a great solution to the issue. The AC is still super low for a class going into melee and burning spell slots isn't really the answer to that, you could cast shield while not wild-shaped and still have a higher AC than being wildshaped, it's not a fix to this fundamental issue. Also glossed over how much you lose when going into wildshape as is right now. It needs a lot more work. More templates is a simple solution to some of these issues and choices within templates further too that but fundamentally, the wildshape forms just need to be beefier than they are in UA.
Mentioned a lot about ranged paladin, didn't really mention anything about find steed, but they didn't go into any feat/spell in this discussion, even tho I think concentration free hunter's mark for ranger should have been mentioned how it's a little OP'ed for 1 level of ranger.
Also, you should embed the video to make it easier for people visiting the thread, there is a youtube play button to make it easier when making/editing posts.
I totally didn't realize that was even an option, lol. Not too forum savvy, unfortunately. I edited the post. Thanks.
To your other comments. I think they are probably aware of the issues you bring up but I don't think they went into some of this to keep the video from going too long. And, for Druid/Paladin, the survey isn't out yet, they were just addressing some of the big concerns they've seen online. When the UA first came out, it seemed that Paladin crits/ranged and Druid wildshape were the initial outcry (from my perspective) and things like Find Steed were in there, but not as prominent.
Yeah, they were talking about how much more durable your wild shape is than it used to be... and it isn't. The only situation where the new wild shape is usefully more durable is for flying forms, because turning a flying form to scout, getting fireballed, then taking another 20d6 from falling when your wild shape ends, is kinda... fatal.
So... you want it so that being found and shot down from the sky was risk-free? Like, flying familiar isn't easymode enough?
It is reassuring to know that even if we do get stuck with templates they'll at least give them customization so different animals actually feel different. I'd still prefer Monster Manual Wildshape, though. Having a few curated sets of forms for different environments like in Xanathar's seems like a good compromise so long as there's an option to make your own form list for more exotic druids.
This also explains the bizarre change to Tiny Form. Frankly, I'd rather Tiny just be its own template that reflects its... Well, tiny size, rather than having it use the same template as other beasts.
Realistically, I think JC is right about multiple tamplates. In practice, druids only use a small handful of forms that are best in certain areas. We need a spider (best in climbing), a warhorse (best in transportation), an owl (best flying scout), etc. The entire Monster Manual isn't really needed, aside from very specific scenarios.
Realistically, I think JC is right about multiple tamplates. In practice, druids only use a small handful of forms that are best in certain areas. We need a spider (best in climbing), a warhorse (best in transportation), an owl (best flying scout), etc. The entire Monster Manual isn't really needed, aside from very specific scenarios.
I dunno if I'd quite agree with this. What animal a druid picks can be very situational, and if we just go with multiple templates there's no way there won't be some sort of animal that can't be replicated with the templates provided.
Customization is the only way templates work for me. Make more of a mechanical distinction between the size categories, let us choose one or two movement types, senses, and abilities for our forms, and things like that.
Just having a list of templates that can't be tweaked wouldn't be acceptable to me at all. It'd also probably use up more paper space as well.
All I can say is I wish the community had backed unique traits when Tasha's statblocks became the wotc ideal.
Also the feedback response seems very surface level and while satisfaction is high for now in ranger (and some other one features). I think In the justification for certain missing elements will become apparent And their removal will hurt the lasting interest.
Realistically, I think JC is right about multiple tamplates. In practice, druids only use a small handful of forms that are best in certain areas. We need a spider (best in climbing), a warhorse (best in transportation), an owl (best flying scout), etc. The entire Monster Manual isn't really needed, aside from very specific scenarios.
I dunno if I'd quite agree with this. What animal a druid picks can be very situational, and if we just go with multiple templates there's no way there won't be some sort of animal that can't be replicated with the templates provided.
Customization is the only way templates work for me. Make more of a mechanical distinction between the size categories, let us choose one or two movement types, senses, and abilities for our forms, and things like that.
Just having a list of templates that can't be tweaked wouldn't be acceptable to me at all. It'd also probably use up more paper space as well.
I agree. I think the three templates we have are a good starting point. The Sea and Air templates are ok, maybe a few options. But the Land template is what needs the most. I don't think they will be able to cover every aspect of the current beast options in the template customization, but it can be close. We just have to realize that we will lose something. Basically every class has in the UAs to some degree or another.
I dunno if I'd quite agree with this. What animal a druid picks can be very situational, and if we just go with multiple templates there's no way there won't be some sort of animal that can't be replicated with the templates provided.
Well, a lot of them don't particularly matter, and the exceptions tend to be weird special rules anyway. I'm not sure we actually need druids with access to Swallow Whole, for example, it's a bit of a can of worms as an ability.
Well, a lot of them don't particularly matter, and the exceptions tend to be weird special rules anyway. I'm not sure we actually need druids with access to Swallow Whole, for example, it's a bit of a can of worms as an ability.
But I really enjoyed my time turning into a giant toad and swallowing kobolds whole...
Here's my issue at some point actually taking a beast from the monster manual with some limits becomes easier than selecting a number of templates.
The more options provided the more complicated it becomes and coul easily make templates the bigger hassle.
Hp scope still needs solving but there are options that could be explored.
Frankly I don't see dms using beasts often enough for encounters so I'd rather it be used by the two archetypes that make sense (beastmaster and druid)
Realistically, I think JC is right about multiple tamplates. In practice, druids only use a small handful of forms that are best in certain areas. We need a spider (best in climbing), a warhorse (best in transportation), an owl (best flying scout), etc. The entire Monster Manual isn't really needed, aside from very specific scenarios.
I dunno if I'd quite agree with this. What animal a druid picks can be very situational, and if we just go with multiple templates there's no way there won't be some sort of animal that can't be replicated with the templates provided.
Customization is the only way templates work for me. Make more of a mechanical distinction between the size categories, let us choose one or two movement types, senses, and abilities for our forms, and things like that.
Just having a list of templates that can't be tweaked wouldn't be acceptable to me at all. It'd also probably use up more paper space as well.
The entire premiss of this is that some people didn't like the complexity of having a full range of options to choose from for wildshape.
Is this a significant portion of people who play this class? Or is it also people frustrated with teh complexity of what Druids can do that other classes can't (which I've definitely heard a bit here)?
My feeling is that this is just part of their streamlining of everything to more simple statblock templates, and trying to make the game "easier" for new users. In other words, dumbing down the system.
Why not just put more tutorials and explanations out there to show how players can use a complex system in a simple, easy, time-efficient way? In the video hes talking about looking through ALL: of the beast statblocks to find the "right" animal for your Druid. Why is someone doing that? What is the situation? Once you look through the beasts once or twice you kinda get a feeling for what you want in different situations. It's NOT THAT HARD!!
For a game that has hundreds of spells available for Wizards, multiple schools for each class and a huge number of feats and other skill/ability choices, (in addition to a massive background of lore and multiple worlds being introduced) I just don't understand the problem with choosing from a few dozen animals to address whatever you're facing.
Realistically, I think JC is right about multiple tamplates. In practice, druids only use a small handful of forms that are best in certain areas. We need a spider (best in climbing), a warhorse (best in transportation), an owl (best flying scout), etc. The entire Monster Manual isn't really needed, aside from very specific scenarios.
I dunno if I'd quite agree with this. What animal a druid picks can be very situational, and if we just go with multiple templates there's no way there won't be some sort of animal that can't be replicated with the templates provided.
Customization is the only way templates work for me. Make more of a mechanical distinction between the size categories, let us choose one or two movement types, senses, and abilities for our forms, and things like that.
Just having a list of templates that can't be tweaked wouldn't be acceptable to me at all. It'd also probably use up more paper space as well.
The entire premiss of this is that some people didn't like the complexity of having a full range of options to choose from for wildshape.
Is this a significant portion of people who play this class? Or is it also people frustrated with teh complexity of what Druids can do that other classes can't (which I've definitely heard a bit here)?
My feeling is that this is just part of their streamlining of everything to more simple statblock templates, and trying to make the game "easier" for new users. In other words, dumbing down the system.
Why not just put more tutorials and explanations out there to show how players can use a complex system in a simple, easy, time-efficient way? In the video hes talking about looking through ALL: of the beast statblocks to find the "right" animal for your Druid. Why is someone doing that? What is the situation? Once you look through the beasts once or twice you kinda get a feeling for what you want in different situations. It's NOT THAT HARD!!
For a game that has hundreds of spells available for Wizards, multiple schools for each class and a huge number of feats and other skill/ability choices, (in addition to a massive background of lore and multiple worlds being introduced) I just don't understand the problem with choosing from a few dozen animals to address whatever you're facing.
Part of the issue is wizard spells are in the players handbook. The monster stat blocks are in a book meant for the DM. Just searching here, filtering for only the basic rules, gave me 4 pages of results on my phone. Which isn’t that much but typically spellcasters only need to look at the spells they have available to use for their level so they have time to sort through hundreds of spells as they play. Unless they start at level 15 or something.
And different people use wildshape for different reasons. And I think a template with some customization options can cover most of the needs of most players. We have to realize that no matter what they do, we are probably going to lose something, just like every other class, so far in the UA’s.
Just started watching, but they are addressing, slightly, some of the discussions we are having online about the Wildshape issues.
Paladin Divine Smite being able to critical hit: The intention, according to JC, is that they can. But he recognizes the wording needs to be clearer.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
Well at least they listened that we don't want a set of bland statblocks. However, it seems like he still thinks of WS as a primarily an in-combat ability, which makes me doubt that we'll get the true diversity and utility we see in 5e even in the next round of updates.
I think that depends on what they see in the survey. I am at least satisfied that they realize that the templates need customization (which could address the out of combat role) or they could possibly go to a curated set of monster stat blocks that would be in the PHB.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
Mostly good, and they noticed that people didn't like sneak attack being limited to only the rogue's turn, honestly it was a nerf to Battlemaster Fighter + Rogue synergy for commander's strike.
People not liking college of lore not have additional magical secrets, Will have to see how they handle that.
I still feel like they have not addressed that Ranger gets most of it's power in the early game with the current set-up, or what needs to be done to make ranger more viable for higher-levels, over becoming more used for multiclassing.
The talk about Druid mentioned a lot of things, but really glossed over that one of the biggest complaints is that wildshape forms right now are not the most viable due to the loss of the replaced HP block, sure AC is higher than 5E and you could get shield spell, but it's not a great solution to the issue. The AC is still super low for a class going into melee and burning spell slots isn't really the answer to that, you could cast shield while not wild-shaped and still have a higher AC than being wildshaped, it's not a fix to this fundamental issue. Also glossed over how much you lose when going into wildshape as is right now. It needs a lot more work. More templates is a simple solution to some of these issues and choices within templates further too that but fundamentally, the wildshape forms just need to be beefier than they are in UA.
Mentioned a lot about ranged paladin, didn't really mention anything about find steed, but they didn't go into any feat/spell in this discussion, even tho I think concentration free hunter's mark for ranger should have been mentioned how it's a little OP'ed for 1 level of ranger.
EDIT:
Also, you should embed the video to make it easier for people visiting the thread, there is a youtube play button to make it easier when making/editing posts.
Yeah, they were talking about how much more durable your wild shape is than it used to be... and it isn't. The only situation where the new wild shape is usefully more durable is for flying forms, because turning a flying form to scout, getting fireballed, then taking another 20d6 from falling when your wild shape ends, is kinda... fatal.
He's technically not wrong, in the new version being a tiny rat you'd still have like a str of 16-18 since its based on wis score, and whatever your HP total is while having an ac of 15ish.
Compare that to currently if you turned into a rat you'd have an AC of 10, 1 HP and a str of 2, and with that said he is right the new wild shape in a tiny form IS a lot more durable than prior
Keep in mind him talking about wildshape being more durable was in the CONTEXT of the tiny form, not wildshape overall. He was talking about why tiny is lvl 11
It is reassuring to know that even if we do get stuck with templates they'll at least give them customization so different animals actually feel different. I'd still prefer Monster Manual Wildshape, though. Having a few curated sets of forms for different environments like in Xanathar's seems like a good compromise so long as there's an option to make your own form list for more exotic druids.
This also explains the bizarre change to Tiny Form. Frankly, I'd rather Tiny just be its own template that reflects its... Well, tiny size, rather than having it use the same template as other beasts.
I totally didn't realize that was even an option, lol. Not too forum savvy, unfortunately. I edited the post. Thanks.
To your other comments. I think they are probably aware of the issues you bring up but I don't think they went into some of this to keep the video from going too long. And, for Druid/Paladin, the survey isn't out yet, they were just addressing some of the big concerns they've seen online. When the UA first came out, it seemed that Paladin crits/ranged and Druid wildshape were the initial outcry (from my perspective) and things like Find Steed were in there, but not as prominent.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
So... you want it so that being found and shot down from the sky was risk-free? Like, flying familiar isn't easymode enough?
Realistically, I think JC is right about multiple tamplates. In practice, druids only use a small handful of forms that are best in certain areas. We need a spider (best in climbing), a warhorse (best in transportation), an owl (best flying scout), etc. The entire Monster Manual isn't really needed, aside from very specific scenarios.
I dunno if I'd quite agree with this. What animal a druid picks can be very situational, and if we just go with multiple templates there's no way there won't be some sort of animal that can't be replicated with the templates provided.
Customization is the only way templates work for me. Make more of a mechanical distinction between the size categories, let us choose one or two movement types, senses, and abilities for our forms, and things like that.
Just having a list of templates that can't be tweaked wouldn't be acceptable to me at all. It'd also probably use up more paper space as well.
All I can say is I wish the community had backed unique traits when Tasha's statblocks became the wotc ideal.
Also the feedback response seems very surface level and while satisfaction is high for now in ranger (and some other one features). I think In the justification for certain missing elements will become apparent And their removal will hurt the lasting interest.
I agree. I think the three templates we have are a good starting point. The Sea and Air templates are ok, maybe a few options. But the Land template is what needs the most. I don't think they will be able to cover every aspect of the current beast options in the template customization, but it can be close. We just have to realize that we will lose something. Basically every class has in the UAs to some degree or another.
Similar ideas have been put in this thread here.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
Well, a lot of them don't particularly matter, and the exceptions tend to be weird special rules anyway. I'm not sure we actually need druids with access to Swallow Whole, for example, it's a bit of a can of worms as an ability.
But I really enjoyed my time turning into a giant toad and swallowing kobolds whole...
Here's my issue at some point actually taking a beast from the monster manual with some limits becomes easier than selecting a number of templates.
The more options provided the more complicated it becomes and coul easily make templates the bigger hassle.
Hp scope still needs solving but there are options that could be explored.
Frankly I don't see dms using beasts often enough for encounters so I'd rather it be used by the two archetypes that make sense (beastmaster and druid)
The entire premiss of this is that some people didn't like the complexity of having a full range of options to choose from for wildshape.
Is this a significant portion of people who play this class? Or is it also people frustrated with teh complexity of what Druids can do that other classes can't (which I've definitely heard a bit here)?
My feeling is that this is just part of their streamlining of everything to more simple statblock templates, and trying to make the game "easier" for new users. In other words, dumbing down the system.
Why not just put more tutorials and explanations out there to show how players can use a complex system in a simple, easy, time-efficient way? In the video hes talking about looking through ALL: of the beast statblocks to find the "right" animal for your Druid. Why is someone doing that? What is the situation? Once you look through the beasts once or twice you kinda get a feeling for what you want in different situations. It's NOT THAT HARD!!
For a game that has hundreds of spells available for Wizards, multiple schools for each class and a huge number of feats and other skill/ability choices, (in addition to a massive background of lore and multiple worlds being introduced) I just don't understand the problem with choosing from a few dozen animals to address whatever you're facing.
Part of the issue is wizard spells are in the players handbook. The monster stat blocks are in a book meant for the DM. Just searching here, filtering for only the basic rules, gave me 4 pages of results on my phone. Which isn’t that much but typically spellcasters only need to look at the spells they have available to use for their level so they have time to sort through hundreds of spells as they play. Unless they start at level 15 or something.
And different people use wildshape for different reasons. And I think a template with some customization options can cover most of the needs of most players. We have to realize that no matter what they do, we are probably going to lose something, just like every other class, so far in the UA’s.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?