At first blush, I really like the weapon masteries. They’re interesting, they’ll give martials little but impactful choices to make in combat, in every round if not with every attack. Being able to change which weapon you master is needed flexibility, and adding multiple master ties to the same weapon, or shifting them around is fantastic. What I don’t get is the idea of increasing the number of weapons a fighter can master. In theory, it certainly makes sense, and gives fighters really good flavor as the person who can really make the most of the widest variety of weapons. But in practice, is getting to master 4 or 5 of them of any real value?
Most of the time, for a melee fighter, you’ll have your melee weapon, probably a thrown weapon for when you can’t quite get close enough, and that longbow that you’ve got just in case, but in reality you use it twice in the campaign. If you’re a ranged fighter, you’ve got your bow (or xbow) and that rapier in case they get close, and that’s about it.
I guess my problem is treating getting extra weapon masteries as a big class feature, when you’ll almost never need more than the three you get at level 1.
Also, feel free to discuss the masteries in general. We can’t let all the threads be about the warlock changes.
Overall I think they missed the mark (this is my early opinion so could change). I feel like just giving all martials a 1/turn maneuver and a few maneuvers would have been better (would later become 2 at like level 6 or so). When I first read weapon masteries I thought the idea of a fighter swapping weapons to mix and match properties to combo would have been cool as heck, but the new attack action (and I guess 5e's one too) only allows for drawing and stowing one weapon, making this impossible up until level 13, when casters are just insanely OP.
Second of all, a bit away from weapon masteries is that WOTC is making classes long rest based and trying to make the 1 fight/long rest thing work, but the martials don't have good enough stuff to keep up with casters in that environment. Weapon properties simply get outscaled by spells very quickly in such a place.
As I understand it, you don’t necessarily need to switch weapons. You can stack multiple masteries on the same weapon, then choose which one you’ll activate with each attack. And since you can move masteries from their non-native weapon to another, there’s still some really good options without changing weapons. Which is kind of double edged, now I think of it. It lets you make a character however you like as far as masteries, but it does end up stripping some individuality away from each weapon.
As far as comparing to what casters can do, it seems pretty cool to be able to knock someone prone with your first attack, then push them 10’ away with your second, and be able to do that all day long. It’s cantrip-level effects you can add on. The bigger stuff comes from subclasses (hopefully).
I think the system is pretty good, but it's limited for the Fighter in the sense that the Masteries don't really synergize and the prerequisites for them make what few decent combos there are unfeasible. I say let Fighters go wild. Change the 7th level feature to also allow them to ignore the prerequisites of weapon masteries.
What's really limiting though is that the weapon mastery features they get really want them to be switching weapons and fighting styles around in combat to get the most out of these masteries, however, Fighters only get 1 fighting style which means if they want to get the most out of each weapon they should also get the corresponding fighting style which is going to eat up feat choices.
Fighters don't have to hot swap weapons every attack in combat of course. After all, why would an archer fighter ever care about anything other than Vex? Near-permanent advantage at range is unheard of. So then they have all these other weapon masteries just gathering dust as nice-to-haves and just-in-cases, and your 7th and 13th level features basically don't exist unless you want to apply Vex to a weapon that doesn't have it by default.
The ranged weapons choices are not really great. in particular the blowgun is still useless and many of the other options feel tacked on and not thought out. Why slow VS push on guns. Why vex at all when generally IRL it gets harder to hit consecutively with almost any ranged weapons?
A simple property for adding poison to ammunition for better economy makes way more sense for most ranged weapons. or some way of using other equipment vials, holy water ect. Because almost every table that lasts will ask the question eventually. Tools are the way fighters and such deal with elemental resistances. without such options martials will either be behind in that area (requiring Magic items)or the dm can not use resistances as any thing more than ribbon points in combat. (note: usually I am not a fan of using the term ribbon as a bad thing but here it applies.)
The weapon mastery properties are *fine* but they really aren't good enough to be worth the time and effort for recording and remembering which weapons you have mastery in and which ones you don't. The character option of Weapon Mastery should be a simple Yes/No and apply to all weapons like an upgraded "proficiency" - either you can use the mastery property of weapons or you cannot, don't make me manage my character sheet and equipment every long rest to try and match up my "Mastery" with the cool magic weapon the party just found. The other problem is that they really aren't all equally powerful, so I expect to see even less diversity in PC builds as people focus on the masteries that are better than the others.
I was kinda hoping the Mastery Properties would be Battlemaster manuevars, but I'll have to accept these Mastery Properties. Running through each (I will likely make a mistake):
Cleave: Requires 2 enemies close together. With a 1d12 weapon, Greataxe, this gives (+6.5)*(65% accuracy) = 4.225 damage per round.
Flex: increases the dice size, roughly +1 damage per attack. So (2 attacks/round) * (+1) * (65% accuracy) = 1.3 damage per round reliably.
Graze: Guaranteed damage on a miss. Assuming a +4 modifier and extra attack, that is (2 attacks/round)*(+4)*(35% miss chance) = 2.8 damage per round. This ability really shines when you are attacking at a disadvantage.
Nick: Preserves bonus action. Most valuable when you have something to do with your bonus action, such as Rogues.
Push: Tactical. Breaks grapples. Enables kiting. The utility depends on if your DM likes hazards or your teammates enjoy spells like Spike Growth.
Sap: Vicious Mockery without a save, but only a few weapons meet the prerequisite.
Slow: Reducing Speed by 10 ft helps protect teammates or allow kiting away from an enemy. Weapon Adept will often combine Slow with Push. On a Longbow, this will feel like Warlock's repelling blast.
Topple: The only property to require a saving throw, I suspect this will be the preferred property for melee combatants. Interestingly, on a whip it enables kiting and hit-n-run strategies. Too bad CON saves are the highest.
Vex: Once the first attack hits, the later ones are likely to chain together. This is almost too easy.
I agree that fighters won't often use any master beyond the initial 3. Or at least I am having a hard time imagining scenarios besides general flexibility.
Cleave = good particularly if you have abilities like Improved Divine Smite that adds to it, I see it being a favourite of PAM Paladins
Flex = bad, Paladins will take Cleave instead and sword & board sucks for everyone else.
Graze is meh?, if you're attacking with DisAdv you're better off substituting your first attack with a Shove action, considering all the ways to get Adv I don't see Graze being that useful, and certainly not popular considering how players hate thinking about failing.
Nick is for rogues and melee-rangers
Push > Slow
Vex > All others so I hope everyone is super excited for all the STR-based Sword & Board characters that use a rapier! B/c rapiers are now 100x better than Longswords.
The weapon mastery properties are *fine* but they really aren't good enough to be worth the time and effort for recording and remembering which weapons you have mastery in and which ones you don't. The character option of Weapon Mastery should be a simple Yes/No and apply to all weapons like an upgraded "proficiency" - either you can use the mastery property of weapons or you cannot, don't make me manage my character sheet and equipment every long rest to try and match up my "Mastery" with the cool magic weapon the party just found. The other problem is that they really aren't all equally powerful, so I expect to see even less diversity in PC builds as people focus on the masteries that are better than the others.
The whole system feels like they wanted to add the appearance of tactical choice, without actually adding the complexity they would've needed to make it really work
The mastery stuff is fine as far as it goes, but it just seems like an added little perk, nothing more
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Active characters:
Green Hill Sunrise, jaded tabaxi mercenary trapped in the Dark Domains (Battle Master fighter) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Graze is meh?, if you're attacking with DisAdv you're better off substituting your first attack with a Shove action, considering all the ways to get Adv I don't see Graze being that useful, and certainly not popular considering how players hate thinking about failing.
I could see graze being a trap for new players, thinking “guaranteed damage, I’m in.”
It might be useful when you can have multiple masteries on the same weapon. On a hit I can push or whatever, and on a miss, damage.
EQUIPPING AND UNEQUIPPING WEAPONS You can either equip or unequip one weapon when you make an attack as part of this action. You do so either before or after the attack. If you equip a weapon before an attack, you don’t need to use it for that attack. Equipping a weapon includes drawing it from a sheath, picking it up, or retrieving it from a container. Unequipping a weapon includes sheathing, stowing, or dropping it.
This system is better or worst depending on if you can equip/unequip more than once per attack action. From my reading You can equip and unequip when you make an attack as part of this action. So that means if you have extra attack that allow you to attack twice, you can equip or unequip 2 times (3, 4 for fighters at higher levels)
So let's say a barbarian level 5 with mastery with Greataxe and Pike. You start your turn with Greataxe already ready, you attack using cleave and kill 2 goblins surounding you - now you want to push the boss from your wizard - you unequip the greataxe after the first attack and equip the Pike before the second attack. Then you attack and push the boss 10 feet away, freeing your wizard to move without need to use disengage action. That is pretty valuable overall.
Is this game-breaking overpowered? no, but pretty solid and the thing is, for figthers and barbarians it is just 'free' something on top on what they could already do on their turn. I would say that this system is pretty good and I don't think it is complex at all (maybe for fighters high level? but even then, fighers NEED some complexity to be honest)
I preferred the solution of combat maneuvers. However, I don't dislike this weapon mastery solution. I think it's going to make fighters a much more interesting class to play. I don't usually play fighters and, in fact, I haven't played one for years. But this new fighter I think I could play it even in a medium / long campaign.
I still think he should have more things to do in combat, and more decisions to make. But I am satisfied with this change. I think it's a good design.
Yeah, the limitation on amount of weapons you can master is redundant, especially given that you can change them during long rest. It's not like you need to juggle 4-5 melee weapons every fight, looking like a Christmas tree with weapons instead of toys.
Also, the way they handled Light property, locking behind Nick mastery the ability to make an offhand attack as a part of attack action is just frustrating. Who's even going to dual wield the old way, with bonus action? This nuance right here seems very raw.
Yeah, the limitation on amount of weapons you can master is redundant, especially given that you can change them during long rest. It's not like you need to juggle 4-5 melee weapons every fight, looking like a Christmas tree with weapons instead of toys.
Also, the way they handled Light property, locking behind Nick mastery the ability to make an offhand attack as a part of attack action is just frustrating. Who's even going to dual wield the old way, with bonus action? This nuance right here seems very raw.
A rogue would if rogues don't get weapon mastery, also a Warlock might.
The changing them over a long rest *is* weird, thematically and in practice. Thematically since when you think of someone being a master with a weapon, you think of Inigo Montoya studying swordplay his whole life, or Robin Hood with his incredibly honed archery skills, not just like "ok *switch* I'm an ax guy now".
Practically, also, I don't usually see martial characters switching weapon types frequently anyways. If I want to play a sword user, I've usually made up my mind to be a sword user from the beginning, or an ax user or a halberdier, etc.
If I could tweak weapons mastery slightly, fighters would start out with two and gain more with levels, the feat would only be good for one, but it would be repeatable, and each weapon mastery would come with the new property (push, vex, etc) AND a single weapon maneuver. And maybe an expanded crit range/expanded crit damage, with certain weapons critting more often while doing less damage, and other weapons critting less often but doing more damage.
The changing them over a long rest *is* weird, thematically and in practice. Thematically since when you think of someone being a master with a weapon, you think of Inigo Montoya studying swordplay his whole life, or Robin Hood with his incredibly honed archery skills, not just like "ok *switch* I'm an ax guy now".
Practically, also, I don't usually see martial characters switching weapon types frequently anyways. If I want to play a sword user, I've usually made up my mind to be a sword user from the beginning, or an ax user or a halberdier, etc.
If I could tweak weapons mastery slightly, fighters would start out with two and gain more with levels, the feat would only be good for one, but it would be repeatable, and each weapon mastery would come with the new property (push, vex, etc) AND a single weapon maneuver. And maybe an expanded crit range/expanded crit damage, with certain weapons critting more often while doing less damage, and other weapons critting less often but doing more damage.
I agree it’s strange to switch. But I’ve been in lots of campaigns where I decide I want to a hammer guy, and then the DM starts throwing out magic swords. So, it’s mores practical reason to allow switching to match treasure drops, I think. And I still think more than 3 active mastered weapons is pretty pointless. No one is carrying around that many weapons. Really, 3 is pushing it, but I can see a melee, thrown and ranged. About the only way it makes sense, and I hope they aren’t moving toward this, is to go back to earlier editions with some creatures being resistant/vulnerable to different damage types. So if you’re fighting a skeleton or an ooze, you want something different ready. It can be cool to do that sometimes as a bit of flavor, but I really don’t want to go back to the golf bag fighters.
Yeah, the limitation on amount of weapons you can master is redundant, especially given that you can change them during long rest. It's not like you need to juggle 4-5 melee weapons every fight, looking like a Christmas tree with weapons instead of toys.
Also, the way they handled Light property, locking behind Nick mastery the ability to make an offhand attack as a part of attack action is just frustrating. Who's even going to dual wield the old way, with bonus action? This nuance right here seems very raw.
A rogue would if rogues don't get weapon mastery, also a Warlock might.
A rogue can get weapon mastery trough feats.
I would also not be surprised if some of the more fighting style focused subclasses like Swashbuckler might have limited access to weapon mastery.
EQUIPPING AND UNEQUIPPING WEAPONS You can either equip or unequip one weapon when you make an attack as part of this action. You do so either before or after the attack. If you equip a weapon before an attack, you don’t need to use it for that attack. Equipping a weapon includes drawing it from a sheath, picking it up, or retrieving it from a container. Unequipping a weapon includes sheathing, stowing, or dropping it.
This system is better or worst depending on if you can equip/unequip more than once per attack action. From my reading You can equip and unequip when you make an attack as part of this action. So that means if you have extra attack that allow you to attack twice, you can equip or unequip 2 times (3, 4 for fighters at higher levels)
So let's say a barbarian level 5 with mastery with Greataxe and Pike. You start your turn with Greataxe already ready, you attack using cleave and kill 2 goblins surounding you - now you want to push the boss from your wizard - you unequip the greataxe after the first attack and equip the Pike before the second attack. Then you attack and push the boss 10 feet away, freeing your wizard to move without need to use disengage action. That is pretty valuable overall.
Is this game-breaking overpowered? no, but pretty solid and the thing is, for figthers and barbarians it is just 'free' something on top on what they could already do on their turn. I would say that this system is pretty good and I don't think it is complex at all (maybe for fighters high level? but even then, fighers NEED some complexity to be honest)
Right, especially once Fighters get the second extra attack at level 11 it really starts to open up options, and you can even switch between 2h and dual-wielding in the same turn at this point.
However, I think the fact that Fighters are spoiled for choice really shines a light on how limited the mastery features actually are, and this is mostly due to prerequisites. I don't see any particular reason why a Fighter couldn't put Topple on a dagger. Let the player describe the move they make to knock a creature prone with a dagger. Limiting Topple, for example, to heavy/reach/versatile weapons only is an illusion of verisimilitude.
I also worry that taking full advantage of mastery by weapon swapping between attacks adds an odd layer of complex logistics to what was previously one of the most newbie-friendly classes in the game, but I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. Just means Fighters have a higher ceiling; more room to grow.
Yeah, the limitation on amount of weapons you can master is redundant, especially given that you can change them during long rest. It's not like you need to juggle 4-5 melee weapons every fight, looking like a Christmas tree with weapons instead of toys.
Also, the way they handled Light property, locking behind Nick mastery the ability to make an offhand attack as a part of attack action is just frustrating. Who's even going to dual wield the old way, with bonus action? This nuance right here seems very raw.
A rogue would if rogues don't get weapon mastery, also a Warlock might.
A rogue can get weapon mastery trough feats.
I would also not be surprised if some of the more fighting style focused subclasses like Swashbuckler might have limited access to weapon mastery.
Sure but it's not necessarily worth a whole feat to get it for a rogue, having advantage on your first attack is better than dual wielding for them anyway and if you hit with your first attack you don't need the BA attack. So personally I probably wouldn't bother with weapon mastery on a rogue until level 10.
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At first blush, I really like the weapon masteries. They’re interesting, they’ll give martials little but impactful choices to make in combat, in every round if not with every attack. Being able to change which weapon you master is needed flexibility, and adding multiple master ties to the same weapon, or shifting them around is fantastic.
What I don’t get is the idea of increasing the number of weapons a fighter can master. In theory, it certainly makes sense, and gives fighters really good flavor as the person who can really make the most of the widest variety of weapons. But in practice, is getting to master 4 or 5 of them of any real value?
Most of the time, for a melee fighter, you’ll have your melee weapon, probably a thrown weapon for when you can’t quite get close enough, and that longbow that you’ve got just in case, but in reality you use it twice in the campaign. If you’re a ranged fighter, you’ve got your bow (or xbow) and that rapier in case they get close, and that’s about it.
I guess my problem is treating getting extra weapon masteries as a big class feature, when you’ll almost never need more than the three you get at level 1.
Also, feel free to discuss the masteries in general. We can’t let all the threads be about the warlock changes.
Overall I think they missed the mark (this is my early opinion so could change). I feel like just giving all martials a 1/turn maneuver and a few maneuvers would have been better (would later become 2 at like level 6 or so).
When I first read weapon masteries I thought the idea of a fighter swapping weapons to mix and match properties to combo would have been cool as heck, but the new attack action (and I guess 5e's one too) only allows for drawing and stowing one weapon, making this impossible up until level 13, when casters are just insanely OP.
Second of all, a bit away from weapon masteries is that WOTC is making classes long rest based and trying to make the 1 fight/long rest thing work, but the martials don't have good enough stuff to keep up with casters in that environment. Weapon properties simply get outscaled by spells very quickly in such a place.
As I understand it, you don’t necessarily need to switch weapons. You can stack multiple masteries on the same weapon, then choose which one you’ll activate with each attack. And since you can move masteries from their non-native weapon to another, there’s still some really good options without changing weapons.
Which is kind of double edged, now I think of it. It lets you make a character however you like as far as masteries, but it does end up stripping some individuality away from each weapon.
As far as comparing to what casters can do, it seems pretty cool to be able to knock someone prone with your first attack, then push them 10’ away with your second, and be able to do that all day long. It’s cantrip-level effects you can add on. The bigger stuff comes from subclasses (hopefully).
I think the system is pretty good, but it's limited for the Fighter in the sense that the Masteries don't really synergize and the prerequisites for them make what few decent combos there are unfeasible. I say let Fighters go wild. Change the 7th level feature to also allow them to ignore the prerequisites of weapon masteries.
What's really limiting though is that the weapon mastery features they get really want them to be switching weapons and fighting styles around in combat to get the most out of these masteries, however, Fighters only get 1 fighting style which means if they want to get the most out of each weapon they should also get the corresponding fighting style which is going to eat up feat choices.
Fighters don't have to hot swap weapons every attack in combat of course. After all, why would an archer fighter ever care about anything other than Vex? Near-permanent advantage at range is unheard of. So then they have all these other weapon masteries just gathering dust as nice-to-haves and just-in-cases, and your 7th and 13th level features basically don't exist unless you want to apply Vex to a weapon that doesn't have it by default.
The ranged weapons choices are not really great. in particular the blowgun is still useless and many of the other options feel tacked on and not thought out. Why slow VS push on guns. Why vex at all when generally IRL it gets harder to hit consecutively with almost any ranged weapons?
A simple property for adding poison to ammunition for better economy makes way more sense for most ranged weapons. or some way of using other equipment vials, holy water ect. Because almost every table that lasts will ask the question eventually. Tools are the way fighters and such deal with elemental resistances. without such options martials will either be behind in that area (requiring Magic items)or the dm can not use resistances as any thing more than ribbon points in combat. (note: usually I am not a fan of using the term ribbon as a bad thing but here it applies.)
The weapon mastery properties are *fine* but they really aren't good enough to be worth the time and effort for recording and remembering which weapons you have mastery in and which ones you don't. The character option of Weapon Mastery should be a simple Yes/No and apply to all weapons like an upgraded "proficiency" - either you can use the mastery property of weapons or you cannot, don't make me manage my character sheet and equipment every long rest to try and match up my "Mastery" with the cool magic weapon the party just found. The other problem is that they really aren't all equally powerful, so I expect to see even less diversity in PC builds as people focus on the masteries that are better than the others.
I was kinda hoping the Mastery Properties would be Battlemaster manuevars, but I'll have to accept these Mastery Properties. Running through each (I will likely make a mistake):
Cleave: Requires 2 enemies close together. With a 1d12 weapon, Greataxe, this gives (+6.5)*(65% accuracy) = 4.225 damage per round.
Flex: increases the dice size, roughly +1 damage per attack. So (2 attacks/round) * (+1) * (65% accuracy) = 1.3 damage per round reliably.
Graze: Guaranteed damage on a miss. Assuming a +4 modifier and extra attack, that is (2 attacks/round)*(+4)*(35% miss chance) = 2.8 damage per round. This ability really shines when you are attacking at a disadvantage.
Nick: Preserves bonus action. Most valuable when you have something to do with your bonus action, such as Rogues.
Push: Tactical. Breaks grapples. Enables kiting. The utility depends on if your DM likes hazards or your teammates enjoy spells like Spike Growth.
Sap: Vicious Mockery without a save, but only a few weapons meet the prerequisite.
Slow: Reducing Speed by 10 ft helps protect teammates or allow kiting away from an enemy. Weapon Adept will often combine Slow with Push. On a Longbow, this will feel like Warlock's repelling blast.
Topple: The only property to require a saving throw, I suspect this will be the preferred property for melee combatants. Interestingly, on a whip it enables kiting and hit-n-run strategies. Too bad CON saves are the highest.
Vex: Once the first attack hits, the later ones are likely to chain together. This is almost too easy.
I agree that fighters won't often use any master beyond the initial 3. Or at least I am having a hard time imagining scenarios besides general flexibility.
Cleave = good particularly if you have abilities like Improved Divine Smite that adds to it, I see it being a favourite of PAM Paladins
Flex = bad, Paladins will take Cleave instead and sword & board sucks for everyone else.
Graze is meh?, if you're attacking with DisAdv you're better off substituting your first attack with a Shove action, considering all the ways to get Adv I don't see Graze being that useful, and certainly not popular considering how players hate thinking about failing.
Nick is for rogues and melee-rangers
Push > Slow
Vex > All others so I hope everyone is super excited for all the STR-based Sword & Board characters that use a rapier! B/c rapiers are now 100x better than Longswords.
The whole system feels like they wanted to add the appearance of tactical choice, without actually adding the complexity they would've needed to make it really work
The mastery stuff is fine as far as it goes, but it just seems like an added little perk, nothing more
Active characters:
Green Hill Sunrise, jaded tabaxi mercenary trapped in the Dark Domains (Battle Master fighter)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
I could see graze being a trap for new players, thinking “guaranteed damage, I’m in.”
It might be useful when you can have multiple masteries on the same weapon. On a hit I can push or whatever, and on a miss, damage.
This system is better or worst depending on if you can equip/unequip more than once per attack action. From my reading You can equip and unequip when you make an attack as part of this action. So that means if you have extra attack that allow you to attack twice, you can equip or unequip 2 times (3, 4 for fighters at higher levels)
So let's say a barbarian level 5 with mastery with Greataxe and Pike. You start your turn with Greataxe already ready, you attack using cleave and kill 2 goblins surounding you - now you want to push the boss from your wizard - you unequip the greataxe after the first attack and equip the Pike before the second attack. Then you attack and push the boss 10 feet away, freeing your wizard to move without need to use disengage action. That is pretty valuable overall.
Is this game-breaking overpowered? no, but pretty solid and the thing is, for figthers and barbarians it is just 'free' something on top on what they could already do on their turn. I would say that this system is pretty good and I don't think it is complex at all (maybe for fighters high level? but even then, fighers NEED some complexity to be honest)
I preferred the solution of combat maneuvers. However, I don't dislike this weapon mastery solution. I think it's going to make fighters a much more interesting class to play. I don't usually play fighters and, in fact, I haven't played one for years. But this new fighter I think I could play it even in a medium / long campaign.
I still think he should have more things to do in combat, and more decisions to make. But I am satisfied with this change. I think it's a good design.
What does it MEAN to have 3 Weapon Masteries at level one?
You can have 3 weapons? Long Sword, Dagger, Long Bow and as long as you have 3 different Masteries.
You can have the Masteries, Slow, Cleave, Sap and choose any weapon.
Yeah, the limitation on amount of weapons you can master is redundant, especially given that you can change them during long rest. It's not like you need to juggle 4-5 melee weapons every fight, looking like a Christmas tree with weapons instead of toys.
Also, the way they handled Light property, locking behind Nick mastery the ability to make an offhand attack as a part of attack action is just frustrating. Who's even going to dual wield the old way, with bonus action? This nuance right here seems very raw.
A rogue would if rogues don't get weapon mastery, also a Warlock might.
The changing them over a long rest *is* weird, thematically and in practice. Thematically since when you think of someone being a master with a weapon, you think of Inigo Montoya studying swordplay his whole life, or Robin Hood with his incredibly honed archery skills, not just like "ok *switch* I'm an ax guy now".
Practically, also, I don't usually see martial characters switching weapon types frequently anyways. If I want to play a sword user, I've usually made up my mind to be a sword user from the beginning, or an ax user or a halberdier, etc.
If I could tweak weapons mastery slightly, fighters would start out with two and gain more with levels, the feat would only be good for one, but it would be repeatable, and each weapon mastery would come with the new property (push, vex, etc) AND a single weapon maneuver. And maybe an expanded crit range/expanded crit damage, with certain weapons critting more often while doing less damage, and other weapons critting less often but doing more damage.
I agree it’s strange to switch. But I’ve been in lots of campaigns where I decide I want to a hammer guy, and then the DM starts throwing out magic swords. So, it’s mores practical reason to allow switching to match treasure drops, I think.
And I still think more than 3 active mastered weapons is pretty pointless. No one is carrying around that many weapons. Really, 3 is pushing it, but I can see a melee, thrown and ranged.
About the only way it makes sense, and I hope they aren’t moving toward this, is to go back to earlier editions with some creatures being resistant/vulnerable to different damage types. So if you’re fighting a skeleton or an ooze, you want something different ready. It can be cool to do that sometimes as a bit of flavor, but I really don’t want to go back to the golf bag fighters.
A rogue can get weapon mastery trough feats.
I would also not be surprised if some of the more fighting style focused subclasses like Swashbuckler might have limited access to weapon mastery.
Right, especially once Fighters get the second extra attack at level 11 it really starts to open up options, and you can even switch between 2h and dual-wielding in the same turn at this point.
However, I think the fact that Fighters are spoiled for choice really shines a light on how limited the mastery features actually are, and this is mostly due to prerequisites. I don't see any particular reason why a Fighter couldn't put Topple on a dagger. Let the player describe the move they make to knock a creature prone with a dagger. Limiting Topple, for example, to heavy/reach/versatile weapons only is an illusion of verisimilitude.
I also worry that taking full advantage of mastery by weapon swapping between attacks adds an odd layer of complex logistics to what was previously one of the most newbie-friendly classes in the game, but I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. Just means Fighters have a higher ceiling; more room to grow.
Sure but it's not necessarily worth a whole feat to get it for a rogue, having advantage on your first attack is better than dual wielding for them anyway and if you hit with your first attack you don't need the BA attack. So personally I probably wouldn't bother with weapon mastery on a rogue until level 10.