This may sound like a boring solution, but giving them the third extra attack at 11 like fighter gets may just be the solution. It would make the ki abilities still relevant. FoB would still be about getting extra burst, you can contribute and still target good targets with stunning strike, dodge and disengage can be used without feeling like you are losing too much damage....it is simple, it is clean solves a lot of issues.
instead of extra attack, maybe an extra strike in FoB. nearly the same thing at that level, and doesnt cause flurry to seem like an afterthought.
FoB is already what 90% of ki gets spent on, PD is occasionally used, and SotW almost never unless you are fleeing. Because having half your damage wrapped up in a single option means that option is just so far superior to all the others it is really hard to justify using anything else. If this was increased to 60% of your damage being locked behind FoB you can bet nobody would ever use any other of the BA options.
yup, a major issue is the opportunity cost and action economy of those three features. its not the only issue, but its one of the big ones.
What if, as part of spending that Ki/DP for PD or SotW you can make one unarmed strike, before or after PD/SotW? You wouldn’t lose as much damage (same damage as using your BA martial arts attack but at a Ki/DP cost). SotW could go back to either/or for that one point if getting both (per UA6) is too much.
at first blush, I'm interested in Flurry of Blows as a feature: each time you spend 1 or more dp, you may make an unarmed strike.
...hmm, but then you can't let that work with stunning strike or it'd be a machine gun. so maybe replace old FoB bonus action with a new stunning strike bonus action: make one unarmed strike and if enemy fails Con save then they are stunned, else dazed?
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Initially I thought the pure unarmed monk would have been a good idea, but Weapon Mastery is now a common option for all classes and exiling the monk even more would probably be wrong. So I thought Weapon Mastery for the monk might become something like that:
1st: Mastery
Monk studies not only the use of weapons, but also unarmed combat, making it effective in any situation.
Weapon Mastery. Your training with weapons allows you to use the Mastery property of two kinds of Simple weapons of your choice, such as Daggers and Spears. Whenever you finish a Long Rest, you can change the kinds of Simple weapons you chose. For example, you could switch to using the Mastery properties of Maces and Slings.
Unarmed Mastery. Your training while unarmed allows you to use Unarmed Strike (Rules Glossary) combining Damage with Grapple or Shove. Additionally, you can use Dexterity instead of Strength when you try to Grapple or Shove a creature.
If they take away our multiple stunning strikes, they have to give us something in return:
5th: Unarmed Master
When you hit a creature with your Iron Strike, you can impose one of the following effects on that target: (Iron strike can be done only once per turn and costs 1 ki/D point)
STUN. It must succeed on a Constitution saving throw or have the Stunned condition until the end of your next turn.
PUSH. It must succeed on a Strength saving throw, or you can push it up to 15 feet away from you.
SWEEP. It must succeed on a Dexterity saving throw or be knocked prone.
If you are interested, I am working on this new version:
Use Wisdom as the single ability score needed for all monk bonuses (ala the hexblade's Charisma).
Monks and martial artists are WISE in using their body movements. It's not always about Strength and Dexterity, although those help. They WISELY choose how to use their bodies (like a Jedi or Spiderman's Spidey Sense or fast movement as shown in the first Tobey Maguire movie).
Use Wisdom + Dexterity + Proficiency Bonus or Wisdom + Dexterity + Constitution for Unarmored Defense.
All other martial classes get essentially 3 bonuses to their AC: Dexterity + Armor + Shield, or Heavy Armor + Shield. Even barbarians get Dexterity + Constitution + Shield. Monks should get the same benefit. Since they can't use a shield as the 3rd bonus to their AC, something else needs to be put in place. The Proficiency Bonus makes sense because of a martial artist's training. Constitution also makes sense because martial artists can control their bodies in crazy ways, breaking cinder blocks and boards with their bare fists, etc.
Bump the Monk's hit dice to a d10 like all other martial classes.
Again, martial artists are not soft and squishy. They can take a hit.
Give Monks something akin to fighting styles at 1st level, maybe something like:
Offensive: The "Studied Attack" fighter feature. On a miss they get advantage on the next attack against that same creature
Defensive: Can Dodge as a reaction
Mobile: Never trigger opportunity attacks
Although I think a little differently, I think your ideas are interesting.
1) Making the monk a MAD class to a SAD class might be a solution for easier character development, but it would not change much.
MONK MAD
MONK SAD
DEX = AC / ATT // WIS = AC / DC
DEX = AC // WIS = AC / DC / ATT
The only advantage is that you will only boost Wisdom at the beginning of the game and then you will Dexterity and finally Constitution. This will lead to having a more powerful DC right away which would make Stunning Strike much more effective and lethal and might only partially alleviate to the fact that they made it a usable power only 1 time per turn, unfortunately it does not solve the problem at higher levels. But I think it is a reasonable and acceptable change.
2) I understand that many people think that the monk has a Low AC, but I don't think it is so out of the average. It could be easily solved with common items. This item could be used until Bracers of Defense is found or acquired.
As the more you level up the more competitive the monk's AC becomes. Magical combat robes may also be developed for the monk that give a bonus to AC +1/+2/+3 (somewhat like those for the wizard or sorcerer).
3) I think the monk should stay at d8, but that is only if its skirmisher system is as effective as the rogue's. So without affecting its DPR potential and resources. I think the monk's speed is not just for being the first one who can get close to the enemy and fight (kind of like the barbarian). I think its speed and freedom of movement should be enhanced so that it can reach even flying enemies, but this should come with the disadvantage of having fewer hit points. I am reminded of a phrase I heard in the TV series Cobra Kai, the wisest choice for a martial arts master is not to be in front of the enemy when it strikes and thus be out of its attack range.
But I also agree that the movement cannot always be exploited. Often one finds oneself fighting in dungeons with small spaces where movement is of little use, and that is why the monk should develop dodge and patient defense.
D6
D8
D10
D12
Position
Pure Range
Skirmish / Range
Range / Melee
Pure Melee
Warrior
MONK
FIGHTER
BARBARIAN
Expert
ROGUE
RANGER
BARD
Priest
CLERIC
PALADIN
DURID
Mage
WIZZARD
WARLOCK
SORCERER
4) I would also agree with this, but it can also be said that the Martial Arts feature is basically a Fighting Style already chosen for the monk that offers a similar ability as "Two-Weapon Fighting." But I agree that the monk lacks freedom of customization in its development. Because of this fact I think the monk should also have in its core class a NICK-like ability (Weapon Mastery) so as to take full advantage of its many features that use bonus action.
Initially I thought the pure unarmed monk would have been a good idea, but Weapon Mastery is now a common option for all classes and exiling the monk even more would probably be wrong. So I thought Weapon Mastery for the monk might become something like that:
1st: Mastery
Monk studies not only the use of weapons, but also unarmed combat, making it effective in any situation.
Weapon Mastery. Your training with weapons allows you to use the Mastery property of two kinds of Simple weapons of your choice, such as Daggers and Spears. Whenever you finish a Long Rest, you can change the kinds of Simple weapons you chose. For example, you could switch to using the Mastery properties of Maces and Slings.
Unarmed Mastery. Your training while unarmed allows you to use Unarmed Strike (Rules Glossary) combining Damage with Grapple or Shove. Additionally, you can use Dexterity instead of Strength when you try to Grapple or Shove a creature.
If they take away our multiple stunning strikes, they have to give us something in return:
5th: Unarmed Master
When you hit a creature with your Iron Strike, you can impose one of the following effects on that target: (Iron strike can be done only once per turn and costs 1 ki/D point)
STUN. It must succeed on a Constitution saving throw or have the Stunned condition until the end of your next turn.
PUSH. It must succeed on a Strength saving throw, or you can push it up to 15 feet away from you.
SWEEP. It must succeed on a Dexterity saving throw or be knocked prone.
If you are interested, I am working on this new version:
Use Wisdom as the single ability score needed for all monk bonuses (ala the hexblade's Charisma).
Monks and martial artists are WISE in using their body movements. It's not always about Strength and Dexterity, although those help. They WISELY choose how to use their bodies (like a Jedi or Spiderman's Spidey Sense or fast movement as shown in the first Tobey Maguire movie).
Use Wisdom + Dexterity + Proficiency Bonus or Wisdom + Dexterity + Constitution for Unarmored Defense.
All other martial classes get essentially 3 bonuses to their AC: Dexterity + Armor + Shield, or Heavy Armor + Shield. Even barbarians get Dexterity + Constitution + Shield. Monks should get the same benefit. Since they can't use a shield as the 3rd bonus to their AC, something else needs to be put in place. The Proficiency Bonus makes sense because of a martial artist's training. Constitution also makes sense because martial artists can control their bodies in crazy ways, breaking cinder blocks and boards with their bare fists, etc.
Bump the Monk's hit dice to a d10 like all other martial classes.
Again, martial artists are not soft and squishy. They can take a hit.
Give Monks something akin to fighting styles at 1st level, maybe something like:
Offensive: The "Studied Attack" fighter feature. On a miss they get advantage on the next attack against that same creature
Defensive: Can Dodge as a reaction
Mobile: Never trigger opportunity attacks
Although I think a little differently, I think your ideas are interesting.
1) Making the monk a MAD class to a SAD class might be a solution for easier character development, but it would not change much.
MONK MAD
MONK SAD
DEX = AC / ATT // WIS = AC / DC
DEX = AC // WIS = AC / DC / ATT
The only advantage is that you will only boost Wisdom at the beginning of the game and then you will Dexterity and finally Constitution. This will lead to having a more powerful DC right away which would make Stunning Strike much more effective and lethal and might only partially alleviate to the fact that they made it a usable power only 1 time per turn, unfortunately it does not solve the problem at higher levels. But I think it is a reasonable and acceptable change.
2) I understand that many people think that the monk has a Low AC, but I don't think it is so out of the average. It could be easily solved with common items. This item could be used until Bracers of Defense is found or acquired.
As the more you level up the more competitive the monk's AC becomes. Magical combat robes may also be developed for the monk that give a bonus to AC +1/+2/+3 (somewhat like those for the wizard or sorcerer).
3) I think the monk should stay at d8, but that is only if its skirmisher system is as effective as the rogue's. So without affecting its DPR potential and resources. I think the monk's speed is not just for being the first one who can get close to the enemy and fight (kind of like the barbarian). I think its speed and freedom of movement should be enhanced so that it can reach even flying enemies, but this should come with the disadvantage of having fewer hit points. I am reminded of a phrase I heard in the TV series Cobra Kai, the wisest choice for a martial arts master is not to be in front of the enemy when it strikes and thus be out of its attack range.
But I also agree that the movement cannot always be exploited. Often one finds oneself fighting in dungeons with small spaces where movement is of little use, and that is why the monk should develop dodge and patient defense.
D6
D8
D10
D12
Position
Pure Range
Skirmish / Range
Range / Melee
Pure Melee
Warrior
MONK
FIGHTER
BARBARIAN
Expert
ROGUE
RANGER
BARD
Priest
CLERIC
PALADIN
DURID
Mage
WIZZARD
WARLOCK
SORCERER
4) I would also agree with this, but it can also be said that the Martial Arts feature is basically a Fighting Style already chosen for the monk that offers a similar ability as "Two-Weapon Fighting." But I agree that the monk lacks freedom of customization in its development. Because of this fact I think the monk should also have in its core class a NICK-like ability (Weapon Mastery) so as to take full advantage of its many features that use bonus action.
your unarmed strike offers non competitive choices in opposition to stunning strike. Those are probably worse than mastery, since topple is per hit, push is no save and per hit, and mastery doesnt cost Ki. I get you can use it with grapple or shove, but stun+grapple is probably the best CC, and they all are CC based.
I believe in creating a sub menu of features in stunning strikes place so people choose, but I wouldn't make them all CC. Have a DPS option, at least one. A defensive option that doesnt have a save attached to it. Something that maybe just gives utility, or does something interesting. It also doesnt have to be a strike, ' unarmed technique' that opens up more options for design.
Agree. Unarmed Mastery is fine. I like the idea that you have the option to grapple or shove via DEX, in addition to the damage. No other class can do that with the 1DD unarmed strikes rules.
But 5th level Unarmed Master is just tacking on weapon masteries at the expense of Ki/DP and saves, which is the problem with 1DD Open Hand Technique for Open Hand monks. Where Push mastery doesn’t give a save although it is less distance.
Agree. Unarmed Mastery is fine. I like the idea that you have the option to grapple or shove via DEX, in addition to the damage. No other class can do that with the 1DD unarmed strikes rules.
But 5th level Unarmed Master is just tacking on weapon masteries at the expense of Ki/DP and saves, which is the problem with 1DD Open Hand Technique for Open Hand monks. Where Push mastery doesn’t give a save although it is less distance.
It should be kept in mind that Weapon Mastery PUSH has size limit, whereas in this case it does not have this limit. Another factor to take into account is the variety of possible techniques. For all classes except fighter, only 1 technique is accessible per weapon. But I understand that at first glance it might be negative.
Maybe I should make it like PUSH of Weapon Mastery, or maybe just remove the saving throw. As for TOPPLE, that requires a saving throw on constitution while this one on dexterity. Doesn't change much, but useful if enemies have strong CON.
To decrease the gap between weapon and unarmed attacks I thought of this feature:
6th: One with the Weapon
You can create a bond with a Simple Weapon of your choice, it will share out its Mastery propertyand its bonus to attack and damage rolls with your unarmed strikes. Additionally, when you deal damage with your Bond Weapon or Unarmed Strike, it can deal your choice of Force damage or its normal damage type.
This feature should give unarmed attacks another usable Mastery.
I thought that for the monk to become part of the warrior group there should be some changes to be made.
Your practice of martial arts gives you mastery of combat styles that use your Unarmed Strike and Simple Weapons. You gain the following benefits while you aren’t wearing armor or wielding a shield:
Soft Technique. You can use Dexterity instead of Strength for the attack and damage rolls of your Unarmed Strikes and Simple Weapons, except those that have the Two-Handed property.
Martial Arts Die. You can roll a d6 in place of the normal damage of your Unarmed Strike or your weapon attacks. This die changes as you gain Monk levels, as shown in the Martial Arts column of the Monk table.
Quick Strike. When you use the Attack action with an Unarmed Strike or with a Weapon that use dexterity on your turn, you can make one Unarmed Strike as a Bonus Action on the same turn. If you use a Force point during your turn, you can decide to move your Bonus Unarmed Strike as part of the Attack action. It is still possible to make this extra attack only once per turn.
This would allow the monk to access feats that require martial weapons. It could also use martial weapons that use dexterity and thus also have a wider choice of weapons (compared to 5e) and thus also Weapon Mastery.
I understand, but I don't think that having a mastery on an unarmed strike that you can only do once per turn (while weapon masteries can be used every single attack) and cost a Ki/DP is worth it. Even with Push being a slightly further distance, no size restriction, but they get a saving throw, when the WM does not. And Push is already covered under Shove as part of an Unarmed Strike in Unarmed Mastery. And the Ki/DP cost and once per turn to get Topple (which is already covered under Shove as part of an Unarmed Strike in Unarmed Mastery) just to change the saving throw.
And as Gwar1 stated. Those two options don't quite compete with Stun for the same Ki/DP cost.
Agree. Unarmed Mastery is fine. I like the idea that you have the option to grapple or shove via DEX, in addition to the damage. No other class can do that with the 1DD unarmed strikes rules.
But 5th level Unarmed Master is just tacking on weapon masteries at the expense of Ki/DP and saves, which is the problem with 1DD Open Hand Technique for Open Hand monks. Where Push mastery doesn’t give a save although it is less distance.
It should be kept in mind that Weapon Mastery PUSH has size limit, whereas in this case it does not have this limit. Another factor to take into account is the variety of possible techniques. For all classes except fighter, only 1 technique is accessible per weapon. But I understand that at first glance it might be negative.
Maybe I should make it like PUSH of Weapon Mastery, or maybe just remove the saving throw. As for TOPPLE, that requires a saving throw on constitution while this one on dexterity. Doesn't change much, but useful if enemies have strong CON.
To decrease the gap between weapon and unarmed attacks I thought of this feature:
6th: One with the Weapon
You can create a bond with a Simple Weapon of your choice, it will share out its Mastery propertyand its bonus to attack and damage rolls with your unarmed strikes. Additionally, when you deal damage with your Bond Weapon or Unarmed Strike, it can deal your choice of Force damage or its normal damage type.
This feature should give unarmed attacks another usable Mastery.
I thought that for the monk to become part of the warrior group there should be some changes to be made.
Your practice of martial arts gives you mastery of combat styles that use your Unarmed Strike and Simple Weapons. You gain the following benefits while you aren’t wearing armor or wielding a shield:
Soft Technique. You can use Dexterity instead of Strength for the attack and damage rolls of your Unarmed Strikes and Simple Weapons, except those that have the Two-Handed property.
Martial Arts Die. You can roll a d6 in place of the normal damage of your Unarmed Strike or your weapon attacks. This die changes as you gain Monk levels, as shown in the Martial Arts column of the Monk table.
Quick Strike. When you use the Attack action with an Unarmed Strike or with a Weapon that use dexterity on your turn, you can make one Unarmed Strike as a Bonus Action on the same turn. If you use a Force point during your turn, you can decide to move your Bonus Unarmed Strike as part of the Attack action. It is still possible to make this extra attack only once per turn.
This would allow the monk to access feats that require martial weapons. It could also use martial weapons that use dexterity and thus also have a wider choice of weapons (compared to 5e) and thus also Weapon Mastery.
Have you considered moving the bonus action unarmed strike from quick strike to the attack action?
"When you use the Attack action with an Unarmed Strike or with a Weapon that use dexterity on your turn, you can make one Unarmed Strike as a part of the same action."
It's a simple fix that that dramatically improves the monks action economy.
Agree. Unarmed Mastery is fine. I like the idea that you have the option to grapple or shove via DEX, in addition to the damage. No other class can do that with the 1DD unarmed strikes rules.
But 5th level Unarmed Master is just tacking on weapon masteries at the expense of Ki/DP and saves, which is the problem with 1DD Open Hand Technique for Open Hand monks. Where Push mastery doesn’t give a save although it is less distance.
It should be kept in mind that Weapon Mastery PUSH has size limit, whereas in this case it does not have this limit. Another factor to take into account is the variety of possible techniques. For all classes except fighter, only 1 technique is accessible per weapon. But I understand that at first glance it might be negative.
Maybe I should make it like PUSH of Weapon Mastery, or maybe just remove the saving throw. As for TOPPLE, that requires a saving throw on constitution while this one on dexterity. Doesn't change much, but useful if enemies have strong CON.
To decrease the gap between weapon and unarmed attacks I thought of this feature:
6th: One with the Weapon
You can create a bond with a Simple Weapon of your choice, it will share out its Mastery propertyand its bonus to attack and damage rolls with your unarmed strikes. Additionally, when you deal damage with your Bond Weapon or Unarmed Strike, it can deal your choice of Force damage or its normal damage type.
This feature should give unarmed attacks another usable Mastery.
I thought that for the monk to become part of the warrior group there should be some changes to be made.
Your practice of martial arts gives you mastery of combat styles that use your Unarmed Strike and Simple Weapons. You gain the following benefits while you aren’t wearing armor or wielding a shield:
Soft Technique. You can use Dexterity instead of Strength for the attack and damage rolls of your Unarmed Strikes and Simple Weapons, except those that have the Two-Handed property.
Martial Arts Die. You can roll a d6 in place of the normal damage of your Unarmed Strike or your weapon attacks. This die changes as you gain Monk levels, as shown in the Martial Arts column of the Monk table.
Quick Strike. When you use the Attack action with an Unarmed Strike or with a Weapon that use dexterity on your turn, you can make one Unarmed Strike as a Bonus Action on the same turn. If you use a Force point during your turn, you can decide to move your Bonus Unarmed Strike as part of the Attack action. It is still possible to make this extra attack only once per turn.
This would allow the monk to access feats that require martial weapons. It could also use martial weapons that use dexterity and thus also have a wider choice of weapons (compared to 5e) and thus also Weapon Mastery.
Have you considered moving the bonus action unarmed strike from quick strike to the attack action?
"When you use the Attack action with an Unarmed Strike or with a Weapon that use dexterity on your turn, you can make one Unarmed Strike as a part of the same action."
It's a simple fix that that dramatically improves the monks action economy.
I did not want to be as direct as Weapon Mastery NICK, but the correction is certainly much simpler.
Could this enhance Action Surge? You should also avoid making a bonus attack with a second weapon. So as to avoid Armed attack + unarmed attack + attack with the second weapon in the bonus action. How could a sentence be developed that integrates these limitations?
"When you use the Attack action with an Unarmed Strike or with a Weapon that use dexterity on your turn, you can make one Unarmed Strike as a part of the same action. It is still possible to make this extra attack only once per turn."
I understand, but I don't think that having a mastery on an unarmed strike that you can only do once per turn (while weapon masteries can be used every single attack) and cost a Ki/DP is worth it. Even with Push being a slightly further distance, no size restriction, but they get a saving throw, when the WM does not. And Push is already covered under Shove as part of an Unarmed Strike in Unarmed Mastery. And the Ki/DP cost and once per turn to get Topple (which is already covered under Shove as part of an Unarmed Strike in Unarmed Mastery) just to change the saving throw.
And as Gwar1 stated. Those two options don't quite compete with Stun for the same Ki/DP cost.
So the actions that could be taken are:
Directly modify "Unarmed Strike" in the Rules Glossary.
Change Unarmed Mastery by directly forwarding PUSH and SWEEP for each unarmed strike.
Leave "Unarmed Strike" (Rules Glossary) and Unarmed Mastery as they are, and simply find alternative techniques that can equalize STUN (or stunning strike).
They need to not nerf the ma die or weapon mastery for the monk .
barb doesn't get nerfed fighter doesn't get nerfed . I don't care if they use the unarmed attacks, they shouldn't be taxed for their class . I know they are worried monks will be best with simple weapons(fighter will still be better) . at level seventeen you could use a quarterstaff for 1d12 oh no, someone call the fun police . a barb, fighter, ranger, paladin could all start with a d12.
They need to not nerf the ma die or weapon mastery for the monk .
barb doesn't get nerfed fighter doesn't get nerfed . I don't care if they use the unarmed attacks, they shouldn't be taxed for their class . I know they are worried monks will be best with simple weapons(fighter will still be better) . at level seventeen you could use a quarterstaff for 1d12 oh no, someone call the fun police . a barb, fighter, ranger, paladin could all start with a d12.
The Main reason MA die isn’t on weapons is one Mastery. Nick. They don’t want ever monk running around with daggers attacking with their ma die. I was shocked they allowed monk to keep 3 attacks at level 1 with Nick, but now it’s 1d4+ mod, 1d4, BA 1d6+mod. If you let MA apply to weapons that all 1d6s at level 1 where that 3 points of average damage difference if they all hit actually matters.
They need to not nerf the ma die or weapon mastery for the monk .
barb doesn't get nerfed fighter doesn't get nerfed . I don't care if they use the unarmed attacks, they shouldn't be taxed for their class . I know they are worried monks will be best with simple weapons(fighter will still be better) . at level seventeen you could use a quarterstaff for 1d12 oh no, someone call the fun police . a barb, fighter, ranger, paladin could all start with a d12.
The Main reason MA die isn’t on weapons is one Mastery. Nick. They don’t want ever monk running around with daggers attacking with their ma die. I was shocked they allowed monk to keep 3 attacks at level 1 with Nick, but now it’s 1d4+ mod, 1d4, BA 1d6+mod. If you let MA apply to weapons that all 1d6s at level 1 where that 3 points of average damage difference if they all hit actually matters.
Then they should just disallow Monks to use the Nick property. Rather than making it so every monk has to fight unarmed at higher levels.
Though with Cleave, a barbarian can deal 2d6+STR+2+2d6+2 = 4d6+4+STR with one action at level 1, so I'm not so convinced that Monks doing 3d6+2*DEX is broken.
They need to not nerf the ma die or weapon mastery for the monk .
barb doesn't get nerfed fighter doesn't get nerfed . I don't care if they use the unarmed attacks, they shouldn't be taxed for their class . I know they are worried monks will be best with simple weapons(fighter will still be better) . at level seventeen you could use a quarterstaff for 1d12 oh no, someone call the fun police . a barb, fighter, ranger, paladin could all start with a d12.
The Main reason MA die isn’t on weapons is one Mastery. Nick. They don’t want ever monk running around with daggers attacking with their ma die. I was shocked they allowed monk to keep 3 attacks at level 1 with Nick, but now it’s 1d4+ mod, 1d4, BA 1d6+mod. If you let MA apply to weapons that all 1d6s at level 1 where that 3 points of average damage difference if they all hit actually matters.
Then they should just disallow Monks to use the Nick property. Rather than making it so every monk has to fight unarmed at higher levels.
Though with Cleave, a barbarian can deal 2d6+STR+2+2d6+2 = 4d6+4+STR with one action at level 1, so I'm not so convinced that Monks doing 3d6+2*DEX is broken.
They need to not nerf the ma die or weapon mastery for the monk .
barb doesn't get nerfed fighter doesn't get nerfed . I don't care if they use the unarmed attacks, they shouldn't be taxed for their class . I know they are worried monks will be best with simple weapons(fighter will still be better) . at level seventeen you could use a quarterstaff for 1d12 oh no, someone call the fun police . a barb, fighter, ranger, paladin could all start with a d12.
The Main reason MA die isn’t on weapons is one Mastery. Nick. They don’t want ever monk running around with daggers attacking with their ma die. I was shocked they allowed monk to keep 3 attacks at level 1 with Nick, but now it’s 1d4+ mod, 1d4, BA 1d6+mod. If you let MA apply to weapons that all 1d6s at level 1 where that 3 points of average damage difference if they all hit actually matters.
Then they should just disallow Monks to use the Nick property. Rather than making it so every monk has to fight unarmed at higher levels.
Though with Cleave, a barbarian can deal 2d6+STR+2+2d6+2 = 4d6+4+STR with one action at level 1, so I'm not so convinced that Monks doing 3d6+2*DEX is broken.
they don't like doing line item rule changes. However, they could have made it that the MA die is tied to a certain mastery, which doesnt include nick. Then to get nick, you have to use a d4.
I think they also might have wanted unarmed to be a main option for monk, but I think they would need to improve unarmed in that case. Its hard to say though, the UA6 monk is bad in many ways. Maybe there wasn't a lot of thought put in to certain changes.
They need to not nerf the ma die or weapon mastery for the monk .
barb doesn't get nerfed fighter doesn't get nerfed . I don't care if they use the unarmed attacks, they shouldn't be taxed for their class . I know they are worried monks will be best with simple weapons(fighter will still be better) . at level seventeen you could use a quarterstaff for 1d12 oh no, someone call the fun police . a barb, fighter, ranger, paladin could all start with a d12.
The Main reason MA die isn’t on weapons is one Mastery. Nick. They don’t want ever monk running around with daggers attacking with their ma die. I was shocked they allowed monk to keep 3 attacks at level 1 with Nick, but now it’s 1d4+ mod, 1d4, BA 1d6+mod. If you let MA apply to weapons that all 1d6s at level 1 where that 3 points of average damage difference if they all hit actually matters.
Then they should just disallow Monks to use the Nick property. Rather than making it so every monk has to fight unarmed at higher levels.
Though with Cleave, a barbarian can deal 2d6+STR+2+2d6+2 = 4d6+4+STR with one action at level 1, so I'm not so convinced that Monks doing 3d6+2*DEX is broken.
they don't like doing line item rule changes. However, they could have made it that the MA die is tied to a certain mastery, which doesnt include nick. Then to get nick, you have to use a d4.
I think they also might have wanted unarmed to be a main option for monk, but I think they would need to improve unarmed in that case. Its hard to say though, the UA6 monk is bad in many ways. Maybe there wasn't a lot of thought put in to certain changes.
It's 1d4, or 1d4 + Strength/Dexterity modifier if they have the fighting style. That's hardly game-breaking. Heck, once they hit 2nd-level and can start using Ki Discipline, they can choose Patient Defense or Step of the Wind without sacrificing as much damage as before. (Not that those should cost Ki Discipline, only that they still do.) One of the most common complaints about the monk is its weak; that its damage is too low and/or that it needs help in other places. Conventional wisdom would tell us this, even if it's tiny, is a good thing, and here people are arguing against it.
The point of divorcing the MA die from weapons is to make weapon choice matter. Some have a larger die than others, others have situationally more advantageous masteries, and magic items matter more.
So as it is now, since UA6, at 17th level you can do all unarmed for 4d12+20 (assuming 20 Dex and FoB), or 46 avg damage. With WM Nick (no fighting style) Handaxe/dagger 2d6+10, 1d4 (Nick dagger), and 2d12+10 for 42.5 avg damage. If MA die was on weapons it becomes 4d12+20 and 1d12 (Nick dagger) for 52.5 avg damage. Not a huge difference if only looking at mundane items. And skews toward weapon wielding over unarmed for the Attack Action. Which has always been the case with monks in 5E.
Add in fighting style then you go up 5 points of damage. 47.5 (current UA) or 57.5 if you have MA die on weapons. Which puts it 11.5 avg damage per round over all unarmed strikes.
Im not saying monks don’t need MA die on weapons, but I would like it more if they were fairly even so you can choose which way you want to go, depending on the fantasy you are trying to achieve with your character. Maybe the Unarmed magic items they mentioned that are coming will help that.
They need to not nerf the ma die or weapon mastery for the monk .
barb doesn't get nerfed fighter doesn't get nerfed . I don't care if they use the unarmed attacks, they shouldn't be taxed for their class . I know they are worried monks will be best with simple weapons(fighter will still be better) . at level seventeen you could use a quarterstaff for 1d12 oh no, someone call the fun police . a barb, fighter, ranger, paladin could all start with a d12.
The Main reason MA die isn’t on weapons is one Mastery. Nick. They don’t want ever monk running around with daggers attacking with their ma die. I was shocked they allowed monk to keep 3 attacks at level 1 with Nick, but now it’s 1d4+ mod, 1d4, BA 1d6+mod. If you let MA apply to weapons that all 1d6s at level 1 where that 3 points of average damage difference if they all hit actually matters.
Then they should just disallow Monks to use the Nick property. Rather than making it so every monk has to fight unarmed at higher levels.
Though with Cleave, a barbarian can deal 2d6+STR+2+2d6+2 = 4d6+4+STR with one action at level 1, so I'm not so convinced that Monks doing 3d6+2*DEX is broken.
they don't like doing line item rule changes. However, they could have made it that the MA die is tied to a certain mastery, which doesnt include nick. Then to get nick, you have to use a d4.
I think they also might have wanted unarmed to be a main option for monk, but I think they would need to improve unarmed in that case. Its hard to say though, the UA6 monk is bad in many ways. Maybe there wasn't a lot of thought put in to certain changes.
It's 1d4, or 1d4 + Strength/Dexterity modifier if they have the fighting style. That's hardly game-breaking. Heck, once they hit 2nd-level and can start using Ki Discipline, they can choose Patient Defense or Step of the Wind without sacrificing as much damage as before. (Not that those should cost Ki Discipline, only that they still do.) One of the most common complaints about the monk is its weak; that its damage is too low and/or that it needs help in other places. Conventional wisdom would tell us this, even if it's tiny, is a good thing, and here people are arguing against it.
The point of divorcing the MA die from weapons is to make weapon choice matter. Some have a larger die than others, others have situationally more advantageous masteries, and magic items matter more.
That is a pretty big if considering they would have to MC in order to get it. The other option is to just make Unarmed strikes count as Light Weapons with the Nick property for Monks. Or my personal preference would be: Weapon Mastery - you can only benefit from one weapon mastery per turn. [This is to not only fix Monk but also to fix all the weird optimizer shenanigans where people swap between 3 different weapons to use 3 different masteries to get : Attack (Halberd) Attack (Cleave) Attack (Light weapon) Attack (Nick) Attack (BA-PAM), to turn a character with 2 attacks into one with 5 attacks.] Martial Arts - at the start of your turn you can choose to apply one weapon mastery from: Nick, Topple, Push, Vex to apply to your Unarmed Strikes.
They need to not nerf the ma die or weapon mastery for the monk .
barb doesn't get nerfed fighter doesn't get nerfed . I don't care if they use the unarmed attacks, they shouldn't be taxed for their class . I know they are worried monks will be best with simple weapons(fighter will still be better) . at level seventeen you could use a quarterstaff for 1d12 oh no, someone call the fun police . a barb, fighter, ranger, paladin could all start with a d12.
The Main reason MA die isn’t on weapons is one Mastery. Nick. They don’t want ever monk running around with daggers attacking with their ma die. I was shocked they allowed monk to keep 3 attacks at level 1 with Nick, but now it’s 1d4+ mod, 1d4, BA 1d6+mod. If you let MA apply to weapons that all 1d6s at level 1 where that 3 points of average damage difference if they all hit actually matters.
Then they should just disallow Monks to use the Nick property. Rather than making it so every monk has to fight unarmed at higher levels.
Though with Cleave, a barbarian can deal 2d6+STR+2+2d6+2 = 4d6+4+STR with one action at level 1, so I'm not so convinced that Monks doing 3d6+2*DEX is broken.
they don't like doing line item rule changes. However, they could have made it that the MA die is tied to a certain mastery, which doesnt include nick. Then to get nick, you have to use a d4.
I think they also might have wanted unarmed to be a main option for monk, but I think they would need to improve unarmed in that case. Its hard to say though, the UA6 monk is bad in many ways. Maybe there wasn't a lot of thought put in to certain changes.
It's 1d4, or 1d4 + Strength/Dexterity modifier if they have the fighting style. That's hardly game-breaking. Heck, once they hit 2nd-level and can start using Ki Discipline, they can choose Patient Defense or Step of the Wind without sacrificing as much damage as before. (Not that those should cost Ki Discipline, only that they still do.) One of the most common complaints about the monk is its weak; that its damage is too low and/or that it needs help in other places. Conventional wisdom would tell us this, even if it's tiny, is a good thing, and here people are arguing against it.
The point of divorcing the MA die from weapons is to make weapon choice matter. Some have a larger die than others, others have situationally more advantageous masteries, and magic items matter more.
weapon choice would matter more if they had MA dice, as it is now, as you level your weapon choices become worse and worse options. vex on a d6 isnt actually worth it mathematically once you got a d10 or d12. Monks will rarely use weapon mastery after 11 if things remain the same. Got to realize, their mastery is already worse because its limited to simple weapons. Simple weapons are literally designed to be inferior versions of martial weapons for casters.
They need to not nerf the ma die or weapon mastery for the monk .
barb doesn't get nerfed fighter doesn't get nerfed . I don't care if they use the unarmed attacks, they shouldn't be taxed for their class . I know they are worried monks will be best with simple weapons(fighter will still be better) . at level seventeen you could use a quarterstaff for 1d12 oh no, someone call the fun police . a barb, fighter, ranger, paladin could all start with a d12.
The Main reason MA die isn’t on weapons is one Mastery. Nick. They don’t want ever monk running around with daggers attacking with their ma die. I was shocked they allowed monk to keep 3 attacks at level 1 with Nick, but now it’s 1d4+ mod, 1d4, BA 1d6+mod. If you let MA apply to weapons that all 1d6s at level 1 where that 3 points of average damage difference if they all hit actually matters.
Then they should just disallow Monks to use the Nick property. Rather than making it so every monk has to fight unarmed at higher levels.
Though with Cleave, a barbarian can deal 2d6+STR+2+2d6+2 = 4d6+4+STR with one action at level 1, so I'm not so convinced that Monks doing 3d6+2*DEX is broken.
they don't like doing line item rule changes. However, they could have made it that the MA die is tied to a certain mastery, which doesnt include nick. Then to get nick, you have to use a d4.
I think they also might have wanted unarmed to be a main option for monk, but I think they would need to improve unarmed in that case. Its hard to say though, the UA6 monk is bad in many ways. Maybe there wasn't a lot of thought put in to certain changes.
It's 1d4, or 1d4 + Strength/Dexterity modifier if they have the fighting style. That's hardly game-breaking. Heck, once they hit 2nd-level and can start using Ki Discipline, they can choose Patient Defense or Step of the Wind without sacrificing as much damage as before. (Not that those should cost Ki Discipline, only that they still do.) One of the most common complaints about the monk is its weak; that its damage is too low and/or that it needs help in other places. Conventional wisdom would tell us this, even if it's tiny, is a good thing, and here people are arguing against it.
The point of divorcing the MA die from weapons is to make weapon choice matter. Some have a larger die than others, others have situationally more advantageous masteries, and magic items matter more.
That is a pretty big if considering they would have to MC in order to get it. The other option is to just make Unarmed strikes count as Light Weapons with the Nick property for Monks. Or my personal preference would be: Weapon Mastery - you can only benefit from one weapon mastery per turn. [This is to not only fix Monk but also to fix all the weird optimizer shenanigans where people swap between 3 different weapons to use 3 different masteries to get : Attack (Halberd) Attack (Cleave) Attack (Light weapon) Attack (Nick) Attack (BA-PAM), to turn a character with 2 attacks into one with 5 attacks.] Martial Arts - at the start of your turn you can choose to apply one weapon mastery from: Nick, Topple, Push, Vex to apply to your Unarmed Strikes.
How much swapping you can do depends on how many attacks you can make, this is intentional, and gives fighter the greatest versatility with mastery per turn. It also would be oddly punishing dual weapon users who aren't actually doing great right now. And it would make vex and push much stronger by comparison, since you lose effeciency with the other ones after landing one effect.
per hit mastery is not a problem imo, its a feature that makes martial play far more entertaining than it was in 5e.
In my opinion they should directly change Unarmed Strike.
UNARMED STRIKE (original)
An Unarmed Strike is a Melee attack that involves you using your body to damage, grapple, or shove a target within 5 feet of you. Whenever you use your Unarmed Strike, choose one of the following options for its effect: Damage. You make an attack roll against the target. Your bonus to hit equals your Strength modifier + your Proficiency Bonus. On a hit, the target takes Bludgeoning damage equal to 1 + your Strength modifier.
Grapple. The target must succeed on a Strength or Dexterity saving throw (it chooses which), or it has the Grappled condition. The DC for the saving throw and any escape attempts equals 8 + your Strength modifier + your Proficiency Bonus. This grapple is possible only if the target is no more than one size larger than you and if you have a hand free to grab it.
Shove. The target must succeed on a Strength or Dexterity saving throw (it chooses which), or you either push the target 5 feet away or cause it to have the Prone condition. The DC for the saving throw equals 8 + your Strength modifier + your Proficiency Bonus. This shove is possible only if the target is no more than one size larger than you.
UNARMED STRIKE (variant)
An Unarmed Strike is a Melee attack that involves you using your body to damage, grapple, or push, or topple a target within 5 feet of you. Whenever you use your Unarmed Strike, choose one of the following options for its effect: Damage. You make an attack roll against the target. Your bonus to hit equals your Strength modifier + your Proficiency Bonus. On a hit, the target takes Bludgeoning damage equal to 1 + your Strength modifier.
Grapple. The target must succeed on a Strength or Dexterity saving throw (it chooses which), or it has the Grappled condition. The DC for the saving throw and any escape attempts equals 8 + your Strength modifier + your Proficiency Bonus. This grapple is possible only if the target is no more than one size larger than you and if you have a hand free to grab it.
Push. You can push the creature up to 10 feet away from you horizontally if it is no more than one size larger than you.
Topple. The target must succeed on a Dexterity saving throw with a DC equal to 8 + your Strength modifier + your Proficiency Bonus, or fall in the Prone condition.
Then simply offer the monk the chance to do the damage with one of the following options of its choice. (With the use of dexterity instead of strength.)
And offering an option to use a viariant of NICK in unarmed attacks so as to make the monk's bonus action more usable, be it shadow step, SotW, PD, etc...
They need to not nerf the ma die or weapon mastery for the monk .
barb doesn't get nerfed fighter doesn't get nerfed . I don't care if they use the unarmed attacks, they shouldn't be taxed for their class . I know they are worried monks will be best with simple weapons(fighter will still be better) . at level seventeen you could use a quarterstaff for 1d12 oh no, someone call the fun police . a barb, fighter, ranger, paladin could all start with a d12.
The Main reason MA die isn’t on weapons is one Mastery. Nick. They don’t want ever monk running around with daggers attacking with their ma die. I was shocked they allowed monk to keep 3 attacks at level 1 with Nick, but now it’s 1d4+ mod, 1d4, BA 1d6+mod. If you let MA apply to weapons that all 1d6s at level 1 where that 3 points of average damage difference if they all hit actually matters.
I think that's dumb . if ya want level gate it ok ,
but its bad design to add a cool feature and only nerf one of the classes who it is supposed to be for .
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at first blush, I'm interested in Flurry of Blows as a feature: each time you spend 1 or more dp, you may make an unarmed strike.
...hmm, but then you can't let that work with stunning strike or it'd be a machine gun. so maybe replace old FoB bonus action with a new stunning strike bonus action: make one unarmed strike and if enemy fails Con save then they are stunned, else dazed?
unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
tell them you don't like features disappeared quietly in the night: provide feedback!
Initially I thought the pure unarmed monk would have been a good idea, but Weapon Mastery is now a common option for all classes and exiling the monk even more would probably be wrong. So I thought Weapon Mastery for the monk might become something like that:
1st: Mastery
Monk studies not only the use of weapons, but also unarmed combat, making it effective in any situation.
Weapon Mastery. Your training with weapons allows you to use the Mastery property of two kinds of Simple weapons of your choice, such as Daggers and Spears. Whenever you finish a Long Rest, you can change the kinds of Simple weapons you chose. For example, you could switch to using the Mastery properties of Maces and Slings.
Unarmed Mastery. Your training while unarmed allows you to use Unarmed Strike (Rules Glossary) combining Damage with Grapple or Shove. Additionally, you can use Dexterity instead of Strength when you try to Grapple or Shove a creature.
If they take away our multiple stunning strikes, they have to give us something in return:
5th: Unarmed Master
When you hit a creature with your Iron Strike, you can impose one of the following effects on that target: (Iron strike can be done only once per turn and costs 1 ki/D point)
STUN. It must succeed on a Constitution saving throw or have the Stunned condition until the end of your next turn.
PUSH. It must succeed on a Strength saving throw, or you can push it up to 15 feet away from you.
SWEEP. It must succeed on a Dexterity saving throw or be knocked prone.
If you are interested, I am working on this new version:
Link Monk HB-PDF: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1KahLL6l9nA3DAftILIa_YMXene6fxcaZ/view?usp=sharing
Link Monk HB-NC: https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/-beL8eetxcyx
Link Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/UnearthedArcana/comments/16w3tki/monk_the_force_awakens_combination_of_weapon/
Although I think a little differently, I think your ideas are interesting.
1) Making the monk a MAD class to a SAD class might be a solution for easier character development, but it would not change much.
DEX = AC / ATT // WIS = AC / DC
DEX = AC // WIS = AC / DC / ATT
The only advantage is that you will only boost Wisdom at the beginning of the game and then you will Dexterity and finally Constitution. This will lead to having a more powerful DC right away which would make Stunning Strike much more effective and lethal and might only partially alleviate to the fact that they made it a usable power only 1 time per turn, unfortunately it does not solve the problem at higher levels. But I think it is a reasonable and acceptable change.
2) I understand that many people think that the monk has a Low AC, but I don't think it is so out of the average. It could be easily solved with common items. This item could be used until Bracers of Defense is found or acquired.
COMBAT WRAPS (Item): https://drive.google.com/file/d/12S7svTssxI6RA_a4AyB10v3Gb_xfgroS/view?usp=sharing
As the more you level up the more competitive the monk's AC becomes. Magical combat robes may also be developed for the monk that give a bonus to AC +1/+2/+3 (somewhat like those for the wizard or sorcerer).
3) I think the monk should stay at d8, but that is only if its skirmisher system is as effective as the rogue's. So without affecting its DPR potential and resources. I think the monk's speed is not just for being the first one who can get close to the enemy and fight (kind of like the barbarian). I think its speed and freedom of movement should be enhanced so that it can reach even flying enemies, but this should come with the disadvantage of having fewer hit points. I am reminded of a phrase I heard in the TV series Cobra Kai, the wisest choice for a martial arts master is not to be in front of the enemy when it strikes and thus be out of its attack range.
But I also agree that the movement cannot always be exploited. Often one finds oneself fighting in dungeons with small spaces where movement is of little use, and that is why the monk should develop dodge and patient defense.
D6
D8
D10
D12
Position
Pure Range
Skirmish / Range
Range / Melee
Pure Melee
Warrior
MONK
FIGHTER
BARBARIAN
Expert
ROGUE
RANGER
BARD
Priest
CLERIC
PALADIN
DURID
Mage
WIZZARD
WARLOCK
SORCERER
4) I would also agree with this, but it can also be said that the Martial Arts feature is basically a Fighting Style already chosen for the monk that offers a similar ability as "Two-Weapon Fighting." But I agree that the monk lacks freedom of customization in its development. Because of this fact I think the monk should also have in its core class a NICK-like ability (Weapon Mastery) so as to take full advantage of its many features that use bonus action.
your unarmed strike offers non competitive choices in opposition to stunning strike. Those are probably worse than mastery, since topple is per hit, push is no save and per hit, and mastery doesnt cost Ki. I get you can use it with grapple or shove, but stun+grapple is probably the best CC, and they all are CC based.
I believe in creating a sub menu of features in stunning strikes place so people choose, but I wouldn't make them all CC. Have a DPS option, at least one. A defensive option that doesnt have a save attached to it. Something that maybe just gives utility, or does something interesting. It also doesnt have to be a strike, ' unarmed technique' that opens up more options for design.
Agree. Unarmed Mastery is fine. I like the idea that you have the option to grapple or shove via DEX, in addition to the damage. No other class can do that with the 1DD unarmed strikes rules.
But 5th level Unarmed Master is just tacking on weapon masteries at the expense of Ki/DP and saves, which is the problem with 1DD Open Hand Technique for Open Hand monks. Where Push mastery doesn’t give a save although it is less distance.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
It should be kept in mind that Weapon Mastery PUSH has size limit, whereas in this case it does not have this limit. Another factor to take into account is the variety of possible techniques. For all classes except fighter, only 1 technique is accessible per weapon. But I understand that at first glance it might be negative.
Maybe I should make it like PUSH of Weapon Mastery, or maybe just remove the saving throw. As for TOPPLE, that requires a saving throw on constitution while this one on dexterity. Doesn't change much, but useful if enemies have strong CON.
To decrease the gap between weapon and unarmed attacks I thought of this feature:
6th: One with the Weapon
You can create a bond with a Simple Weapon of your choice, it will share out its Mastery property
and its bonus to attack and damage rolls with your unarmed strikes. Additionally, when you deal damage with your Bond Weapon or Unarmed Strike, it can deal your choice of Force damage or its normal damage type.This feature should give unarmed attacks another usable Mastery.
I thought that for the monk to become part of the warrior group there should be some changes to be made.
Proficiencies Weapons: Simple Weapons, Martial Weapons
1st: Martial Arts
Your practice of martial arts gives you mastery of combat styles that use your Unarmed Strike and Simple Weapons. You gain the following benefits while you aren’t wearing armor or wielding a shield:
Soft Technique. You can use Dexterity instead of Strength for the attack and damage rolls of your Unarmed Strikes and Simple Weapons, except those that have the Two-Handed property.
Martial Arts Die. You can roll a d6 in place of the normal damage of your Unarmed Strike or your weapon attacks. This die changes as you gain Monk levels, as shown in the Martial Arts column of the Monk table.
Quick Strike. When you use the Attack action with an Unarmed Strike or with a Weapon that use dexterity on your turn, you can make one Unarmed Strike as a Bonus Action on the same turn.
If you use a Force point during your turn, you can decide to move your Bonus Unarmed Strike as part of the Attack action. It is still possible to make this extra attack only once per turn.This would allow the monk to access feats that require martial weapons. It could also use martial weapons that use dexterity and thus also have a wider choice of weapons (compared to 5e) and thus also Weapon Mastery.
I understand, but I don't think that having a mastery on an unarmed strike that you can only do once per turn (while weapon masteries can be used every single attack) and cost a Ki/DP is worth it. Even with Push being a slightly further distance, no size restriction, but they get a saving throw, when the WM does not. And Push is already covered under Shove as part of an Unarmed Strike in Unarmed Mastery. And the Ki/DP cost and once per turn to get Topple (which is already covered under Shove as part of an Unarmed Strike in Unarmed Mastery) just to change the saving throw.
And as Gwar1 stated. Those two options don't quite compete with Stun for the same Ki/DP cost.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
Have you considered moving the bonus action unarmed strike from quick strike to the attack action?
"When you use the Attack action with an Unarmed Strike or with a Weapon that use dexterity on your turn, you can make one Unarmed Strike as a part of the same action."
It's a simple fix that that dramatically improves the monks action economy.
I did not want to be as direct as Weapon Mastery NICK, but the correction is certainly much simpler.
Could this enhance Action Surge? You should also avoid making a bonus attack with a second weapon. So as to avoid Armed attack + unarmed attack + attack with the second weapon in the bonus action. How could a sentence be developed that integrates these limitations?
"When you use the Attack action with an Unarmed Strike or with a Weapon that use dexterity on your turn, you can make one Unarmed Strike as a part of the same action. It is still possible to make this extra attack only once per turn."
I don't think that's enough.
They need to not nerf the ma die or weapon mastery for the monk .
barb doesn't get nerfed fighter doesn't get nerfed . I don't care if they use the unarmed attacks, they shouldn't be taxed for their class . I know they are worried monks will be best with simple weapons(fighter will still be better) . at level seventeen you could use a quarterstaff for 1d12 oh no, someone call the fun police . a barb, fighter, ranger, paladin could all start with a d12.
The Main reason MA die isn’t on weapons is one Mastery. Nick. They don’t want ever monk running around with daggers attacking with their ma die. I was shocked they allowed monk to keep 3 attacks at level 1 with Nick, but now it’s 1d4+ mod, 1d4, BA 1d6+mod. If you let MA apply to weapons that all 1d6s at level 1 where that 3 points of average damage difference if they all hit actually matters.
Then they should just disallow Monks to use the Nick property. Rather than making it so every monk has to fight unarmed at higher levels.
Though with Cleave, a barbarian can deal 2d6+STR+2+2d6+2 = 4d6+4+STR with one action at level 1, so I'm not so convinced that Monks doing 3d6+2*DEX is broken.
If they have two opponents standing within range.
they don't like doing line item rule changes. However, they could have made it that the MA die is tied to a certain mastery, which doesnt include nick. Then to get nick, you have to use a d4.
I think they also might have wanted unarmed to be a main option for monk, but I think they would need to improve unarmed in that case. Its hard to say though, the UA6 monk is bad in many ways. Maybe there wasn't a lot of thought put in to certain changes.
It's 1d4, or 1d4 + Strength/Dexterity modifier if they have the fighting style. That's hardly game-breaking. Heck, once they hit 2nd-level and can start using
KiDiscipline, they can choose Patient Defense or Step of the Wind without sacrificing as much damage as before. (Not that those should costKiDiscipline, only that they still do.) One of the most common complaints about the monk is its weak; that its damage is too low and/or that it needs help in other places. Conventional wisdom would tell us this, even if it's tiny, is a good thing, and here people are arguing against it.The point of divorcing the MA die from weapons is to make weapon choice matter. Some have a larger die than others, others have situationally more advantageous masteries, and magic items matter more.
So as it is now, since UA6, at 17th level you can do all unarmed for 4d12+20 (assuming 20 Dex and FoB), or 46 avg damage. With WM Nick (no fighting style) Handaxe/dagger 2d6+10, 1d4 (Nick dagger), and 2d12+10 for 42.5 avg damage. If MA die was on weapons it becomes 4d12+20 and 1d12 (Nick dagger) for 52.5 avg damage. Not a huge difference if only looking at mundane items. And skews toward weapon wielding over unarmed for the Attack Action. Which has always been the case with monks in 5E.
Add in fighting style then you go up 5 points of damage. 47.5 (current UA) or 57.5 if you have MA die on weapons. Which puts it 11.5 avg damage per round over all unarmed strikes.
Im not saying monks don’t need MA die on weapons, but I would like it more if they were fairly even so you can choose which way you want to go, depending on the fantasy you are trying to achieve with your character. Maybe the Unarmed magic items they mentioned that are coming will help that.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
That is a pretty big if considering they would have to MC in order to get it. The other option is to just make Unarmed strikes count as Light Weapons with the Nick property for Monks. Or my personal preference would be:
Weapon Mastery - you can only benefit from one weapon mastery per turn. [This is to not only fix Monk but also to fix all the weird optimizer shenanigans where people swap between 3 different weapons to use 3 different masteries to get : Attack (Halberd) Attack (Cleave) Attack (Light weapon) Attack (Nick) Attack (BA-PAM), to turn a character with 2 attacks into one with 5 attacks.]
Martial Arts - at the start of your turn you can choose to apply one weapon mastery from: Nick, Topple, Push, Vex to apply to your Unarmed Strikes.
weapon choice would matter more if they had MA dice, as it is now, as you level your weapon choices become worse and worse options. vex on a d6 isnt actually worth it mathematically once you got a d10 or d12. Monks will rarely use weapon mastery after 11 if things remain the same. Got to realize, their mastery is already worse because its limited to simple weapons. Simple weapons are literally designed to be inferior versions of martial weapons for casters.
How much swapping you can do depends on how many attacks you can make, this is intentional, and gives fighter the greatest versatility with mastery per turn. It also would be oddly punishing dual weapon users who aren't actually doing great right now. And it would make vex and push much stronger by comparison, since you lose effeciency with the other ones after landing one effect.
per hit mastery is not a problem imo, its a feature that makes martial play far more entertaining than it was in 5e.
In my opinion they should directly change Unarmed Strike.
UNARMED STRIKE (original)
An Unarmed Strike is a Melee attack that involves you using your body to damage, grapple, or shove a target within 5 feet of you. Whenever you use your Unarmed Strike, choose one of the following options for its effect: Damage. You make an attack roll against the target. Your bonus to hit equals your Strength modifier + your Proficiency Bonus. On a hit, the target takes Bludgeoning damage equal to 1 + your Strength modifier.
Grapple. The target must succeed on a Strength or Dexterity saving throw (it chooses which), or it has the Grappled condition. The DC for the saving throw and any escape attempts equals 8 + your Strength modifier + your Proficiency Bonus. This grapple is possible only if the target is no more than one size larger than you and if you have a hand free to grab it.
Shove. The target must succeed on a Strength or Dexterity saving throw (it chooses which), or you either push the target 5 feet away or cause it to have the Prone condition. The DC for the saving throw equals 8 + your Strength modifier + your Proficiency Bonus. This shove is possible only if the target is no more than one size larger than you.
UNARMED STRIKE (variant)
An Unarmed Strike is a Melee attack that involves you using your body to damage, grapple, or push, or topple a target within 5 feet of you. Whenever you use your Unarmed Strike, choose one of the following options for its effect: Damage. You make an attack roll against the target. Your bonus to hit equals your Strength modifier + your Proficiency Bonus. On a hit, the target takes Bludgeoning damage equal to 1 + your Strength modifier.
Grapple. The target must succeed on a Strength or Dexterity saving throw (it chooses which), or it has the Grappled condition. The DC for the saving throw and any escape attempts equals 8 + your Strength modifier + your Proficiency Bonus. This grapple is possible only if the target is no more than one size larger than you and if you have a hand free to grab it.
Push. You can push the creature up to 10 feet away from you horizontally if it is no more than one size larger than you.
Topple. The target must succeed on a Dexterity saving throw with a DC equal to 8 + your Strength modifier + your Proficiency Bonus, or fall in the Prone condition.
Then simply offer the monk the chance to do the damage with one of the following options of its choice. (With the use of dexterity instead of strength.)
And offering an option to use a viariant of NICK in unarmed attacks so as to make the monk's bonus action more usable, be it shadow step, SotW, PD, etc...
I think that's dumb . if ya want level gate it ok ,
but its bad design to add a cool feature and only nerf one of the classes who it is supposed to be for .