So here is my fix for the base monk. I don’t think it needs much just some minor tweaks.
First change is Martial Arts:
Martial Arts
At 1st level, your practice of martial arts gives you mastery of combat styles that use unarmed strikes and monk weapons, which are shortswords and any simple melee weapons that don’t have the two-handed or heavy property.
You gain the following benefits while you are unarmed or wielding only monk weapons and you aren’t wearing armor or wielding a shield:
You can use Dexterity instead of Strength for the attack and damage rolls of your unarmed strikes and monk weapons.
You can roll a d6 in place of the normal damage of your unarmed strike or monk weapon. This die changes as you gain monk levels, as shown in the Martial Arts column of the Monk table.
When you use the Attack action with an unarmed strike or a monk weapon on your turn, you can make one unarmed strike as a bonus action. For example, if you take the Attack action and attack with a quarterstaff, you can also make an unarmed strike as a bonus action, assuming you haven’t already taken a bonus action this turn.
Whenever you use would be able to make an unarmed strike and wouldn’t have disadvantage on the roll you may use one of these monk techniques instead.
Instant Strike- You strike at unblock-able speed sacrificing power. Instead of rolling the attack you deal your attack modifier bludgeoning damage to your target. This can not be increased in any way except increasing you attack modifier.
Feinting Strike- You strike the target lightly to set up your next attack. Oh hit this attack deals 1d2+ Str, Dex, or Wis bludgeoning damage. If you roll below half the maximum of the die your next attack this turn has advantage.
Flowing Strike- You attempt attack multiple times within a single movement such as throwing a hook punch and hitting the target with your knuckles, then elbow. If this attack hits it deals 1d4+ Str, Dex, or Wis bludgeoning damage. If you roll the maximum on the die roll the die again and add it to the damage. You may only add proficiency bonus additional dice worth of damage as a part of this attack.
Absolute Force- You attack in a way that uses your full force. It is very deliberate and hard to not to notice incoming. You have disadvantage on the attack roll. If you hit you deal the maximum damage of your martial arts die + 1d2+ Str, Dex or Wis bludgeoning damage
When your martial arts die increases in size all your monk technique dice increase in size as well. No die->1d2->1d4->1d6->1d8
Next change is at level 5 stun locking was never a problem for me, but I can understand the complaint:
Stunning Strike
Starting at 5th level, you can interfere with the flow of ki in an opponent’s body. When you hit another creature with a melee weapon attack, you can spend 1 ki point to attempt a stunning strike. The target must succeed on a Constitution saving throw or be stunned until the end of your next turn. A target that is already stunned when they fail the saving throw will instead be dazed until the end of your next turn.
I believe ki powered strikes just goes away since it would be obsolete>
Purity of body moves to 11th
Tongue of sun and moon moves to 12th
Diamond soul moves to 13th
Timeless Body moves to 14th
Empty Body moves to 15th
Perfect self moves to 18th I would love for perfect self to be something different, but I don’t know what.
Instant Strike- You strike at unblock-able speed sacrificing power. Instead of rolling the attack you deal your attack modifier bludgeoning damage to your target. This can not be increased in any way except increasing you attack modifier.
This one is simply mathematically superior to all the others unless you are already all but guaranteed to hit, in which case the power strike is better. It is an illusion of choice.
d- Absolutely double down and make it explicit that mechanics that can enhance Melee Weapons can also be used to enhance Unarmed Strikes and Natural Weapons.
That is a great idea and a very simple fix. Simply add to Martial Arts:
You learn to use your body as a living weapon, your unarmed strikes fulfill the requirements of any feat, spell, or class feature that normally requires a weapon (including those limited to weapons of a particular type
You when take the Attack action on your turn you can choose one weapon mastery and have it apply to your unarmed strikes for that action.
d- Absolutely double down and make it explicit that mechanics that can enhance Melee Weapons can also be used to enhance Unarmed Strikes and Natural Weapons.
That is a great idea and a very simple fix. Simply add to Martial Arts:
You learn to use your body as a living weapon, your unarmed strikes fulfill the requirements of any feat, spell, or class feature that normally requires a weapon (including those limited to weapons of a particular type
You when take the Attack action on your turn you can choose one weapon mastery and have it apply to your unarmed strikes for that action.
My problem with saying “including” instead of “excluding” is that Shillelagh will completely undermine the Monk progression for unarmed damage.
Do you mean to control or deplete the opponent's energy (Not just manage ours in the form of Ki/spirit points.), and that this affects more spellcasters or similar?
Kind of, though I was thinking of something a bit more basic, but built on the idea of an "escalating" effect. For example:
Exposure
Some Monk abilities refer to exposure. Each time you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack it gains one point of exposure to your future attacks, lasting 1 minute or until you attack another creature.
Stunning Strikes
After hitting a creature with a melee weapon attack you may spend one Ki plus one or more points of exposure to perform a Stunning Strike, forcing it to make a Constitution saving throw against your Ki save DC or suffer the effect below:
1+ exposure: The creature is slowed.
3+ exposure: The creature is dazed.
7+ exposure: The creature is stunned.
Disrupting Strikes
After hitting a creature with a melee weapon attack you may spend One Ki to inflict the following effects until the start of your next turn:
The target suffers a penalty to its magic attacks equal to its current exposure.
If the target uses a magic ability that forces creature(s) to make a saving throw, the creature(s) have a bonus to the saving throw equal to the target's current exposure.
Hopefully this gives an idea of what I was thinking. I like your suggestion though, it just might be a little on the complex side (but then so might mine, I'm definitely biased, heh).
Basically the idea is the more you hit a target the more powerful an effect you can deliver. An alternative for disrupting strikes could be something like forcing the target to make a saving throw before it casts a spell, with the DC being 8 + the current exposure, on a failure the spell fails?
I'm not wedded to the name "exposure"; the idea is inspired by a similar mechanic from Grim Hollow's Way of the Leaden Crown psionic monk (which I really like, they have some really nice sub-classes), they call them pressure points.
Ohhhhh, I understand, I like it a lot, I don't know if 7 will be very restrictive, although with the amount of hits the monk seems to be fine at 7, obviously it would be for somewhat resistant bosses or adversaries, and accompanied, because otherwise they hardly know I could take advantage of it (Since it will have to resist more than 3 rounds or rather apply the minor effects, I love it.)
Now, mine yes, it was more complicated, and more specific, yours seems better to me, it would affect all magical activity, whether or not it had spaces, such as abilities that use every X turns, perhaps more delayed due to having to wait to load the enough exposures.
Maybe you should have a maximum magic penalty or add every two exposures (every 3 penalizes 2 points.), why else, for example, against a boss, you can calmly try to cause a penalty of more than 10 so that your magic almost no use
Perhaps instead of it being just magic or a state, replace the 1st or add, an effect that affects everyone, every two or three exposures 1 exhaustion, this if I remember correctly is a penalty TO ALL according to exhaustion. magic, hits, saves, stat tests, etc....
3rd Level: Casting Spells: You use Wisdom as your Spell casting ability. Further, you may use Druidic spell casting focuses, and may attune magic items that specifically are usable as spell casting focuses as if you were a Druid or Ranger.But you do not otherwise qualify as a Druid or Ranger (via this class) for attuning to other magic items. Use the same table that the Eldritch Knight uses for cantrips known, spells known, and spell slots available.Use the same method for determining multi class spell slots (divine Monk levels by 3).
I would prefer that the monk, as a special trait of his spells, does not have to have his hands full for the material components, so his spells ignore these, although as against he cannot select those that require components with cost or consumables, and be 1 /4 or 1/3 spellcaster.
A spell casting monk could use a finely carved club made from yew (as opposed to a raw stick) as a druidic spell focus, since there’s no substantive difference between that and a yew wand. Or they can use a quarterstaff as a druidic focus. So, two different Monk weapons are also druidic spell foci.
Or just have a component pouch on them.
But even without those weapon equivalences, if they must specifically have a focus that isn’t usable as a weapon…. they still have a free hand, both feet, and their forehead as available for unarmed strikes. It won’t stop them from using their full repertoire of monk abilities. They don’t even need the War Caster Feat for it.
Could also make a tattoo that can be used as a spell casting focus.
d- Absolutely double down and make it explicit that mechanics that can enhance Melee Weapons can also be used to enhance Unarmed Strikes and Natural Weapons.
That is a great idea and a very simple fix. Simply add to Martial Arts:
You learn to use your body as a living weapon, your unarmed strikes fulfill the requirements of any feat, spell, or class feature that normally requires a weapon (including those limited to weapons of a particular type
You when take the Attack action on your turn you can choose one weapon mastery and have it apply to your unarmed strikes for that action.
My problem with saying “including” instead of “excluding” is that Shillelagh will completely undermine the Monk progression for unarmed damage.
Not really, a staff is already a monk weapon. Shillelagh would just let you use Wis for attack and damage rolls at the cost of a BA (i.e. 2 attacks) and a feat or dip. Unarmed Fighting, fighting style already lets monks have 1d8+DEX unarmed strikes at level 1 at the same cost.
I kind of hope monks will be able to use wisdom as their attack stat at default. One of their balance issues is needing to balance both dex and wisdom for their attacks. Either that or make their stunning strikes etc use dex as the determining stat for DC.
I kind of hope monks will be able to use wisdom as their attack stat at default. One of their balance issues is needing to balance both dex and wisdom for their attacks. Either that or make their stunning strikes etc use dex as the determining stat for DC.
The thing is, Monks need both stats to be high no matter what, due to their AC calculation.
Now, if instead, they had a fixed base AC (something like 12+Dex) or could wear light armor without disrupting their other features, then they could have an option like using ki to add their monk die to their AC (like the sword bard’s defensive flourish). That then goes the other direction: reducing reliance on Wisdom. Which I think is the direction I would rather see it go.
d- Absolutely double down and make it explicit that mechanics that can enhance Melee Weapons can also be used to enhance Unarmed Strikes and Natural Weapons.
That is a great idea and a very simple fix. Simply add to Martial Arts:
You learn to use your body as a living weapon, your unarmed strikes fulfill the requirements of any feat, spell, or class feature that normally requires a weapon (including those limited to weapons of a particular type
You when take the Attack action on your turn you can choose one weapon mastery and have it apply to your unarmed strikes for that action.
My problem with saying “including” instead of “excluding” is that Shillelagh will completely undermine the Monk progression for unarmed damage.
Not really, a staff is already a monk weapon. Shillelagh would just let you use Wis for attack and damage rolls at the cost of a BA (i.e. 2 attacks) and a feat or dip. Unarmed Fighting, fighting style already lets monks have 1d8+DEX unarmed strikes at level 1 at the same cost.
IF they’re going to get a Fighting Style option, and Unarmed Fighting style comes back, then I think that’s valid. I remain a little skeptical otherwise.
I kind of hope monks will be able to use wisdom as their attack stat at default. One of their balance issues is needing to balance both dex and wisdom for their attacks. Either that or make their stunning strikes etc use dex as the determining stat for DC.
The thing is, Monks need both stats to be high no matter what, due to their AC calculation.
Now, if instead, they had a fixed base AC (something like 12+Dex) or could wear light armor without disrupting their other features, then they could have an option like using ki to add their monk die to their AC (like the sword bard’s defensive flourish). That then goes the other direction: reducing reliance on Wisdom. Which I think is the direction I would rather see it go.
Something needs to be done with their defense either way. Some base AC scaling and they need to add magic items into the core that covers this if + AC items will exist for armor wearers.
I had a similar issue with the barbarian and suggested they go with a strength/con model for their no armor method as they will be improving both of those at least.
Something needs to be done with their defense either way. Some base AC scaling and they need to add magic items into the core that covers this if + AC items will exist for armor wearers.
I've never personally been unhappy with a Monk's base AC as 10 + DEX + WIS, it's actually pretty solid, especially when we can boost the effective AC by using Patient Defence (which also works against Dexterity saving throw effects). On the rounds you do this that's actually a hell of a lot of defence, so much so it can discourage enemies from attacking you (which may or may not be a good thing).
We also do kind of have unarmored magic armour thanks to bracers of defense, the main problem is that unlike +1-3 armours these require attunement and they only come in a +2 variety. Re-release these in +1, +2, and +3 varieties and remove the attunement requirement but with new text to clarify they can only boost non-magical armour (i.e- no mage armor) and they should be fine. Release a separate attuned item for casters, who'll have to then have to balance against limited attunement slots.
That said, I do want the choice of whether to use 10 + DEX + WIS or 10 + STR + WIS, to support Strength builds.
The main concern defensively is that when you use Patient Defence, you're giving something up to do-so; if at higher levels you could get an additional bonus action or some other mixed defence + offence options this would be less of a problem. Could even be another option for a special move, some kind of "defensive strike" that makes it harder for an enemy to hit you back? While it might encourage an enemy to try to move away, it's not like Monks are easy to get away from (and could make Sentinel an even better feat for Monks).
I had a similar issue with the barbarian and suggested they go with a strength/con model for their no armor method as they will be improving both of those at least.
I actually prefer Barbarian to keep10 + DEX + CON as it encourages Barbarians to take something other than Strength and Constitution; if a Barbarian needs higher AC they can use shields and wear medium armours anyway. Plus going too high with AC is arguably counter-productive on a Barbarian as the higher the AC, the more you discourage enemies from hitting you, which means you end up as less of a tank (as any reasonably intelligent enemies will prefer to attack your lower AC allies instead if they can).
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I actually prefer Barbarian to keep10 + DEX + CON as it encourages Barbarians to take something other than Strength and Constitution; if a Barbarian needs higher AC they can use shields and wear medium armours anyway. Plus going too high with AC is arguably counter-productive on a Barbarian as the higher the AC, the more you discourage enemies from hitting you, which means you end up as less of a tank (as any reasonably intelligent enemies will prefer to attack your lower AC allies instead if they can).
But players wont, they just take medium armor which defeats the purpose in having a no armor method for the barbarian. They wont beat that until they have a 20 con and 16 dex which means their strength has suffered. Lets say they go point buy for a 15/15/15 str/dex/con with racial benefits making it a 16/15/17, level 4 feat gets con to 18, level 8 feat gets dex to 16 just to match medium armor and a 14 dex. To beat it they need at level 12 to bump con or dex, and strength is still sitting at 16. And armor can get +s to push it further and they likely have that by level 12. Sadly mage armor and bracers of defense are not supposed to work with the various unarmed defense abilities.
As for the monsters not attacking them if the AC is too high. The barbarians will be recklessly attacking most likely so they still would be viable options. And on top of that their AC is not visible if going the naked route, the DM would be metagaming for monsters to avoid them for a high AC until pretty deep in rounds.
But players wont, they just take medium armor which defeats the purpose in having a no armor method for the barbarian.
I've never done so on a barbarian; STR +3, DEX +2 and CON +3 isn't too hard to get early on, or even to start with, so that's AC 15 or AC 17 with a shield which is plenty. Only a breastplate is better than that without suffering disadvantage on Stealth.
Any increase to CON will outperform regular medium armour (as well as give you more HP and boost your CON for saves including Relentless Rage). There's also the fact that a barbarian wearing armour suffers -10 credibility for being a weak little baby. 😝
How quickly you boost CON vs. STR depends on whether your priority is dealing damage or tanking.
But these aren't issues on Monk; you want both Dexterity and Wisdom anyway for a DEX build. The main other stat Monks may want is Constitution, but if we got the same 10th-level ability score increase as Rogues this would make that easier (or let us take the Tough feat), or if the hit dice were increased to d10 it wouldn't be as important. With Unarmored Defence based on Strength as an option, we could also do Strength builds.
bracers of defense are not supposed to work with the various unarmed defense abilities.
Bracers of Defense do work with unarmored defence; the only requirement for these is that you're not wearing armour or a shield, so it won't work for a sword and boardbarian, but it'll work for a two-hander (or a versatile grappler).
The main problem is the attunement, because while classes wearing armour can use unattuned +1, +2 or +3 armours, unarmored characters can't so we're losing an attunement slot to keep up on magical AC. But simply lifting attunement will makes braces of defense better for casters as well who don't need them, which is why they need to be made true unarmored only (no stacking with mage armor and shield).
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It is fine for Bracers of Defense to stack with Mage Armour / Shield as 5e is designed around the party generally having similar ACs, that's why Mage Armour and Shield exist in the first place - if you want mages to have lower AC than martials just ban Shield all together from your table.
It is fine for Bracers of Defense to stack with Mage Armour / Shield as 5e is designed around the party generally having similar ACs, that's why Mage Armour and Shield exist in the first place - if you want mages to have lower AC than martials just ban Shield all together from your table.
The issue isn't the stacking, the issue is stacking without attunement; for unarmored "magic armour" to be comparable to magic armour it needs to be attunement-free, but that would make it a no-brainer for unarmored casters.
I'd like to see two different sets of items; one that requires attunement, and another that doesn't but can't be stacked with a magic AC. The latter would allow unarmored Barbarians and Monks to keep up with armoured characters without being down an attunement slot.
They could do it for example by making bracers of defense into three items, an uncommon +1, a rare +2, and a very rare +3, no attunement needed, but wearing armour or a shield or having a base AC provided by magic would stop it working.
Then they could do a similar set requiring attunement but without the magic restriction. Idea is give everyone access to similar equipment, rather than unarmored martials having no real magical progression, because unarmored mages don't need it (they have plenty of other options, plus mage armor is already equivalent to studded leather, +1 or leather, +2 armour).
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For the Bracer of Defense's discussion, I think the simplest solution is for Bracers to be a common item that provide +1 to defense (similar to a shield providing +2) but keep both your hands free. They could be restricted to warriors (so usable by monks/barbarians but not usable by wizards/sorcerers) and can't be combined with heavy armor, medium armor, or shields. I'm not sure about whether Braces should be usable with Light Armor. Bracers can be scavenged from heavy/medium armors (including magical armors). An uncommon magical +1 bracer would provide +2 AC (just like a +1 shield provides +3 AC). No attunement, simple rules, easy to acquire, and gradual scaling.
On the subject or 4 Elements Monk (or just plain "Elemental Monk") being a 1/3 caster, what spells make sense for it?
There are plenty of elemental cantrips such as Create Bonfire (Primal Conjuration). I am partial to Mold Earth, Shape Water, Control Flames, and Gust (Primal, Transmutation) being castable as a replacement for any unarmed strike. But I'm not seeing much for level 1 spells that fit a monk playstyle.
Absorb Elements (Abjuration, Divine, Arcane) is thematic and mechanically worthwhile. But I am not seeing it in any of the UA lists. I could be overlooking it.
Zephyr Strike (Primal, Transmutation) works for a monk, but does not sound elemental. And I do not see it in the UA lists either.
Shield (Arcane, Abjuration) is great for any melee combatant, but does not fit the theme.
Damage spells like Ice Knife are thematically appropriate, but show up too late for a 1/3 caster to be useful.
Healing or buff spells like Bless (Divine, Enchantment) could work as a party enhancement. But they are not elemental.
For the Bracer of Defense's discussion, I think the simplest solution is for Bracers to be a common item that provide +1 to defense (similar to a shield providing +2) but keep both your hands free. They could be restricted to warriors (so usable by monks/barbarians but not usable by wizards/sorcerers) and can't be combined with heavy armor, medium armor, or shields. I'm not sure about whether Braces should be usable with Light Armor. Bracers can be scavenged from heavy/medium armors (including magical armors). An uncommon magical +1 bracer would provide +2 AC (just like a +1 shield provides +3 AC). No attunement, simple rules, easy to acquire, and gradual scaling.
On the subject or 4 Elements Monk (or just plain "Elemental Monk") being a 1/3 caster, what spells make sense for it?
Are you talking about the subclass writeup I did?
There are plenty of elemental cantrips such as Create Bonfire (Primal Conjuration). I am partial to Mold Earth, Shape Water, Control Flames, and Gust (Primal, Transmutation) being castable as a replacement for any unarmed strike. But I'm not seeing much for level 1 spells that fit a monk playstyle.
Absorb Elements (Abjuration, Divine, Arcane) is thematic and mechanically worthwhile. But I am not seeing it in any of the UA lists. I could be overlooking it.
Yeah, it's currently unclear what's going to happen with the spells that aren't on any of the current OneD&D spell lists. Including things like Primal Savagery, which would be an awesome cantrip for a 1/3 caster Monk to have.
Zephyr Strike (Primal, Transmutation) works for a monk, but does not sound elemental. And I do not see it in the UA lists either.
The limitations I gave included "range of self", which Zephyr Strike has. That option was there for the purpose of including self-enhancements and self-buffs. Zephyr Strike very perfectly fits that.
Shield (Arcane, Abjuration) is great for any melee combatant, but does not fit the theme.
And while it would work if there was an Arcane version, the write up I gave was mainly focused on the Primal list. That said, Shield is also a "range: self" spell.
Damage spells like Ice Knife are thematically appropriate, but show up too late for a 1/3 caster to be useful.
Since Monks are largely melee fighters, it could work as their infrequent ranged attack.
Healing or buff spells like Bless (Divine, Enchantment) could work as a party enhancement. But they are not elemental.
For those things that don't fit the four thematic requirement options, keep in mind that one spell at 3rd level, and a few of the spells learned at level up are "free picks" (from within their spell list). So they don't have to be elemental/energy/self/touch-a-weapon spells. Healing Word or Cure Wounds both fit that.
Are there effective spells I am missing?
Depending on Arcane/Divine/Primal versions:
Shillelagh. Create/Destroy Water combined with Goodberry makes for a nice ascetic monk who creates their own food and water sustenance out of thin air. Tasha's Caustic Brew Thunderwave Burning Hands Chromatic Orb Searing Smite Thunderous Smite Ray of Sickness (poison is one of the energy types I listed)
For the Bracer of Defense's discussion, I think the simplest solution is for Bracers to be a common item that provide +1 to defense (similar to a shield providing +2) but keep both your hands free. They could be restricted to warriors (so usable by monks/barbarians but not usable by wizards/sorcerers) and can't be combined with heavy armor, medium armor, or shields. I'm not sure about whether Braces should be usable with Light Armor. Bracers can be scavenged from heavy/medium armors (including magical armors). An uncommon magical +1 bracer would provide +2 AC (just like a +1 shield provides +3 AC). No attunement, simple rules, easy to acquire, and gradual scaling.
On the subject or 4 Elements Monk (or just plain "Elemental Monk") being a 1/3 caster, what spells make sense for it?
Are you talking about the subclass writeup I did?
There are plenty of elemental cantrips such as Create Bonfire (Primal Conjuration). I am partial to Mold Earth, Shape Water, Control Flames, and Gust (Primal, Transmutation) being castable as a replacement for any unarmed strike. But I'm not seeing much for level 1 spells that fit a monk playstyle.
Absorb Elements (Abjuration, Divine, Arcane) is thematic and mechanically worthwhile. But I am not seeing it in any of the UA lists. I could be overlooking it.
Yeah, it's currently unclear what's going to happen with the spells that aren't on any of the current OneD&D spell lists. Including things like Primal Savagery, which would be an awesome cantrip for a 1/3 caster Monk to have.
Zephyr Strike (Primal, Transmutation) works for a monk, but does not sound elemental. And I do not see it in the UA lists either.
The limitations I gave included "range of self", which Zephyr Strike has. That option was there for the purpose of including self-enhancements and self-buffs. Zephyr Strike very perfectly fits that.
Shield (Arcane, Abjuration) is great for any melee combatant, but does not fit the theme.
And while it would work if there was an Arcane version, the write up I gave was mainly focused on the Primal list. That said, Shield is also a "range: self" spell.
Damage spells like Ice Knife are thematically appropriate, but show up too late for a 1/3 caster to be useful.
Since Monks are largely melee fighters, it could work as their infrequent ranged attack.
Sorry to be blunt, but have you ever played a monk? or any Dex-based martial for that matter? Ice Knife is utter trash compared to shooting enemies twice with a long bow. The Elemental Evil cantrips don't deal damage so not sure why anyone would cast any of them in combat.. they are out of combat utility spells. Primal Savagery just straight up worse than two magic fist attacks so again.. when would a monk ever cast it?
Cantrips suck compared to the Attack Action for a martial. The only combat cantrips a monk might want are Magic Stone and Shillelagh, the rest are just plain worse than their fists or a longbow.
It might work if it worked like the bladesinger and it replaced one of the attacks. Like if the monks bonus action attack could be a cantrip or spell. If they keep the booming blade type spells(i hope not) count the monks fists as a weapon costing at least 1sp.
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So here is my fix for the base monk. I don’t think it needs much just some minor tweaks.
First change is Martial Arts:
Martial Arts
At 1st level, your practice of martial arts gives you mastery of combat styles that use unarmed strikes and monk weapons, which are shortswords and any simple melee weapons that don’t have the two-handed or heavy property.
You gain the following benefits while you are unarmed or wielding only monk weapons and you aren’t wearing armor or wielding a shield:
Next change is at level 5 stun locking was never a problem for me, but I can understand the complaint:
Stunning Strike
Starting at 5th level, you can interfere with the flow of ki in an opponent’s body. When you hit another creature with a melee weapon attack, you can spend 1 ki point to attempt a stunning strike. The target must succeed on a Constitution saving throw or be stunned until the end of your next turn. A target that is already stunned when they fail the saving throw will instead be dazed until the end of your next turn.
I believe ki powered strikes just goes away since it would be obsolete>
Purity of body moves to 11th
Tongue of sun and moon moves to 12th
Diamond soul moves to 13th
Timeless Body moves to 14th
Empty Body moves to 15th
Perfect self moves to 18th
I would love for perfect self to be something different, but I don’t know what.
This one is simply mathematically superior to all the others unless you are already all but guaranteed to hit, in which case the power strike is better. It is an illusion of choice.
That is a great idea and a very simple fix. Simply add to Martial Arts:
My problem with saying “including” instead of “excluding” is that Shillelagh will completely undermine the Monk progression for unarmed damage.
A spell casting monk could use a finely carved club made from yew (as opposed to a raw stick) as a druidic spell focus, since there’s no substantive difference between that and a yew wand. Or they can use a quarterstaff as a druidic focus. So, two different Monk weapons are also druidic spell foci.
Or just have a component pouch on them.
But even without those weapon equivalences, if they must specifically have a focus that isn’t usable as a weapon…. they still have a free hand, both feet, and their forehead as available for unarmed strikes. It won’t stop them from using their full repertoire of monk abilities. They don’t even need the War Caster Feat for it.
Could also make a tattoo that can be used as a spell casting focus.
Not really, a staff is already a monk weapon. Shillelagh would just let you use Wis for attack and damage rolls at the cost of a BA (i.e. 2 attacks) and a feat or dip. Unarmed Fighting, fighting style already lets monks have 1d8+DEX unarmed strikes at level 1 at the same cost.
I kind of hope monks will be able to use wisdom as their attack stat at default. One of their balance issues is needing to balance both dex and wisdom for their attacks. Either that or make their stunning strikes etc use dex as the determining stat for DC.
The thing is, Monks need both stats to be high no matter what, due to their AC calculation.
Now, if instead, they had a fixed base AC (something like 12+Dex) or could wear light armor without disrupting their other features, then they could have an option like using ki to add their monk die to their AC (like the sword bard’s defensive flourish). That then goes the other direction: reducing reliance on Wisdom. Which I think is the direction I would rather see it go.
IF they’re going to get a Fighting Style option, and Unarmed Fighting style comes back, then I think that’s valid. I remain a little skeptical otherwise.
Something needs to be done with their defense either way. Some base AC scaling and they need to add magic items into the core that covers this if + AC items will exist for armor wearers.
I had a similar issue with the barbarian and suggested they go with a strength/con model for their no armor method as they will be improving both of those at least.
I've never personally been unhappy with a Monk's base AC as 10 + DEX + WIS, it's actually pretty solid, especially when we can boost the effective AC by using Patient Defence (which also works against Dexterity saving throw effects). On the rounds you do this that's actually a hell of a lot of defence, so much so it can discourage enemies from attacking you (which may or may not be a good thing).
We also do kind of have unarmored magic armour thanks to bracers of defense, the main problem is that unlike +1-3 armours these require attunement and they only come in a +2 variety. Re-release these in +1, +2, and +3 varieties and remove the attunement requirement but with new text to clarify they can only boost non-magical armour (i.e- no mage armor) and they should be fine. Release a separate attuned item for casters, who'll have to then have to balance against limited attunement slots.
That said, I do want the choice of whether to use 10 + DEX + WIS or 10 + STR + WIS, to support Strength builds.
The main concern defensively is that when you use Patient Defence, you're giving something up to do-so; if at higher levels you could get an additional bonus action or some other mixed defence + offence options this would be less of a problem. Could even be another option for a special move, some kind of "defensive strike" that makes it harder for an enemy to hit you back? While it might encourage an enemy to try to move away, it's not like Monks are easy to get away from (and could make Sentinel an even better feat for Monks).
I actually prefer Barbarian to keep10 + DEX + CON as it encourages Barbarians to take something other than Strength and Constitution; if a Barbarian needs higher AC they can use shields and wear medium armours anyway. Plus going too high with AC is arguably counter-productive on a Barbarian as the higher the AC, the more you discourage enemies from hitting you, which means you end up as less of a tank (as any reasonably intelligent enemies will prefer to attack your lower AC allies instead if they can).
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But players wont, they just take medium armor which defeats the purpose in having a no armor method for the barbarian. They wont beat that until they have a 20 con and 16 dex which means their strength has suffered. Lets say they go point buy for a 15/15/15 str/dex/con with racial benefits making it a 16/15/17, level 4 feat gets con to 18, level 8 feat gets dex to 16 just to match medium armor and a 14 dex. To beat it they need at level 12 to bump con or dex, and strength is still sitting at 16. And armor can get +s to push it further and they likely have that by level 12. Sadly mage armor and bracers of defense are not supposed to work with the various unarmed defense abilities.
As for the monsters not attacking them if the AC is too high. The barbarians will be recklessly attacking most likely so they still would be viable options. And on top of that their AC is not visible if going the naked route, the DM would be metagaming for monsters to avoid them for a high AC until pretty deep in rounds.
I've never done so on a barbarian; STR +3, DEX +2 and CON +3 isn't too hard to get early on, or even to start with, so that's AC 15 or AC 17 with a shield which is plenty. Only a breastplate is better than that without suffering disadvantage on Stealth.
Any increase to CON will outperform regular medium armour (as well as give you more HP and boost your CON for saves including Relentless Rage). There's also the fact that a barbarian wearing armour suffers -10 credibility for being a weak little baby. 😝
How quickly you boost CON vs. STR depends on whether your priority is dealing damage or tanking.
But these aren't issues on Monk; you want both Dexterity and Wisdom anyway for a DEX build. The main other stat Monks may want is Constitution, but if we got the same 10th-level ability score increase as Rogues this would make that easier (or let us take the Tough feat), or if the hit dice were increased to d10 it wouldn't be as important. With Unarmored Defence based on Strength as an option, we could also do Strength builds.
Bracers of Defense do work with unarmored defence; the only requirement for these is that you're not wearing armour or a shield, so it won't work for a sword and boardbarian, but it'll work for a two-hander (or a versatile grappler).
The main problem is the attunement, because while classes wearing armour can use unattuned +1, +2 or +3 armours, unarmored characters can't so we're losing an attunement slot to keep up on magical AC. But simply lifting attunement will makes braces of defense better for casters as well who don't need them, which is why they need to be made true unarmored only (no stacking with mage armor and shield).
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The Weapon Mastery options for Martial Arts should be applied as Martial Arts Style.
It is fine for Bracers of Defense to stack with Mage Armour / Shield as 5e is designed around the party generally having similar ACs, that's why Mage Armour and Shield exist in the first place - if you want mages to have lower AC than martials just ban Shield all together from your table.
The issue isn't the stacking, the issue is stacking without attunement; for unarmored "magic armour" to be comparable to magic armour it needs to be attunement-free, but that would make it a no-brainer for unarmored casters.
I'd like to see two different sets of items; one that requires attunement, and another that doesn't but can't be stacked with a magic AC. The latter would allow unarmored Barbarians and Monks to keep up with armoured characters without being down an attunement slot.
They could do it for example by making bracers of defense into three items, an uncommon +1, a rare +2, and a very rare +3, no attunement needed, but wearing armour or a shield or having a base AC provided by magic would stop it working.
Then they could do a similar set requiring attunement but without the magic restriction. Idea is give everyone access to similar equipment, rather than unarmored martials having no real magical progression, because unarmored mages don't need it (they have plenty of other options, plus mage armor is already equivalent to studded leather, +1 or leather, +2 armour).
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For the Bracer of Defense's discussion, I think the simplest solution is for Bracers to be a common item that provide +1 to defense (similar to a shield providing +2) but keep both your hands free. They could be restricted to warriors (so usable by monks/barbarians but not usable by wizards/sorcerers) and can't be combined with heavy armor, medium armor, or shields. I'm not sure about whether Braces should be usable with Light Armor. Bracers can be scavenged from heavy/medium armors (including magical armors). An uncommon magical +1 bracer would provide +2 AC (just like a +1 shield provides +3 AC). No attunement, simple rules, easy to acquire, and gradual scaling.
On the subject or 4 Elements Monk (or just plain "Elemental Monk") being a 1/3 caster, what spells make sense for it?
There are plenty of elemental cantrips such as Create Bonfire (Primal Conjuration). I am partial to Mold Earth, Shape Water, Control Flames, and Gust (Primal, Transmutation) being castable as a replacement for any unarmed strike. But I'm not seeing much for level 1 spells that fit a monk playstyle.
Absorb Elements (Abjuration, Divine, Arcane) is thematic and mechanically worthwhile. But I am not seeing it in any of the UA lists. I could be overlooking it.
Zephyr Strike (Primal, Transmutation) works for a monk, but does not sound elemental. And I do not see it in the UA lists either.
Shield (Arcane, Abjuration) is great for any melee combatant, but does not fit the theme.
Damage spells like Ice Knife are thematically appropriate, but show up too late for a 1/3 caster to be useful.
Healing or buff spells like Bless (Divine, Enchantment) could work as a party enhancement. But they are not elemental.
Are there effective spells I am missing?
Are you talking about the subclass writeup I did?
Yeah, it's currently unclear what's going to happen with the spells that aren't on any of the current OneD&D spell lists. Including things like Primal Savagery, which would be an awesome cantrip for a 1/3 caster Monk to have.
The limitations I gave included "range of self", which Zephyr Strike has. That option was there for the purpose of including self-enhancements and self-buffs. Zephyr Strike very perfectly fits that.
And while it would work if there was an Arcane version, the write up I gave was mainly focused on the Primal list. That said, Shield is also a "range: self" spell.
Since Monks are largely melee fighters, it could work as their infrequent ranged attack.
For those things that don't fit the four thematic requirement options, keep in mind that one spell at 3rd level, and a few of the spells learned at level up are "free picks" (from within their spell list). So they don't have to be elemental/energy/self/touch-a-weapon spells. Healing Word or Cure Wounds both fit that.
Depending on Arcane/Divine/Primal versions:
Shillelagh.
Create/Destroy Water combined with Goodberry makes for a nice ascetic monk who creates their own food and water sustenance out of thin air.
Tasha's Caustic Brew
Thunderwave
Burning Hands
Chromatic Orb
Searing Smite
Thunderous Smite
Ray of Sickness (poison is one of the energy types I listed)
Sorry to be blunt, but have you ever played a monk? or any Dex-based martial for that matter? Ice Knife is utter trash compared to shooting enemies twice with a long bow. The Elemental Evil cantrips don't deal damage so not sure why anyone would cast any of them in combat.. they are out of combat utility spells. Primal Savagery just straight up worse than two magic fist attacks so again.. when would a monk ever cast it?
Cantrips suck compared to the Attack Action for a martial. The only combat cantrips a monk might want are Magic Stone and Shillelagh, the rest are just plain worse than their fists or a longbow.
It might work if it worked like the bladesinger and it replaced one of the attacks. Like if the monks bonus action attack could be a cantrip or spell. If they keep the booming blade type spells(i hope not) count the monks fists as a weapon costing at least 1sp.