To go with that, these are the Martial Arts Masteries I came up with:
Martial Arts Masteries:
(Note: Any Martial Art Mastery that directly or indirectly requires Unarmored Defense has the same requirement that the user cannot be wearing any form of armor nor wielding a shield when using or benefitting from that Martial Art Mastery.)
For any Martial Arts Mastery that grants you learning a spell, and allows you to also use spell slots to cast that spell (not just Discipline Points), then you cast the spell as written when you cast it via Spell Slots, without the Mastery's potential limitation about only casting it on yourself, nor the Mastery's potential benefit of not needing components (that benefit might still be obtained through other means, however; such as the Subtle Spell metamagic).The spells learned this way do not count against any type of spells known/prepared limitation.Your Spellcasting Ability for these spells is determined by the Monastic Discipline feature.
Most of these are based on things that were previously Monk class features, as well as some from Weapon Masteries, the Rogue's Cunning Attack, optional Monk class Features from Tasha's Cauldron of Everything, and the 1e Oriental Adventures book.
Blind Fighting Requirements: None Benefit: You have Blind Sight with a range of 10 feet, within that range you can effectively see anything that isn't behind total cover, even if you're blinded or in total darkness.You can also see Invisible creatures within that range, unless the creature successfully hides from you.
Observant Requirements: None Benefit: You gain the Perception Skill Proficiency.
Practice Requirements: None Benefit: You gain proficient with one Monk skill, an Artisan's Tool, or Musical Instrument of your choice, that you are not proficient with. Can Be Taken More Than Once: Each time you pick a different Monk's Skill, Artisan's Tool, or Musical Instrument that you are not proficient with.
Push Requirements:None Benefit: As with the Weapon Mastery, but you can only apply it to Unarmed Strikes
Sap Requirements:None Benefit: As with the Weapon Mastery, but you can only apply it to Unarmed Strikes
Slow Requirements: None Benefit: As with the Weapon Mastery, but you can only apply it to Unarmed Strikes
Vex Requirements: None Benefit: As with the Weapon Mastery, but you can only apply it to Unarmed Strikes
Crescent Strike Requirements: Martial Discipline Benefit: If you hit a creature with an unarmed strike, you can make an attack roll against a second creature within 5 feet of the original target, that is also within your unarmed strike reach.If that attack roll hits, the second creature takes the same damage as the original attack, but without your ability modifier to that damage (unless that modifier is negative).You can make this extra attack only once per turn.
Body Development Requirements: Monastic Discipline Benefit: You may substitute your Mystical Attribute modifier instead of your Constitution modifier as your Hit Point bonus.
Kip-Up Requirements: Acrobatics or Athletics Proficiency Benefit: If you are prone, but not Grappled, Incapacitated, Restrained, nor Unconscious, and not Wearing Armor nor Wielding a Shield, you can stand up from prone by spending 5 feet of movement.
Iron Skin Requirements: Unarmored Defense Benefit: when you are utilizing Unarmored Defense, you gain a +2 bonus to your AC.
Reversal Requirements: Martial Discipline Benefit: When an opponent applies the Grappled condition to you, and you are not wearing armor nor wielding a shield, you may use your Reaction to grapple them.If you succeed, they are Grappled and you are not.
Preemptive Strike Requirements: Deflect Attacks Benefit: When a creature enters the reach of your unarmed strikes, you may use your reaction to attack them with an unarmed strike.
Weapon Breaker Requirements: Redirect Attacks Benefit: If you are attacked with a melee weapon, instead of redirecting the damage to another creature, you may instead cause the weapon that was used to attack you to take the damage.
Disarm Requirements: Discipline Points, Redirect Attacks Benefit: the same as the Rogue Cunning Attack ability of the same name. Costs 1 Discipline Point
Trip Requirements: Discipline Points, Redirect Attacks Benefit: the same as the Rogue Cunning Attack ability of the same name. Costs 1 Discipline Point
Deft Martial Strike Requirements: Energetic Strikes Benefit: Once per turn, when you hit a creature with an unarmed strike attack roll, you can spend 2 Discipline Points and add an extra roll of your martial arts die to the damage.The damage type can be any of the types your unarmed strikes are capable of inflicting, but does not otherwise need to be the same type of damage as the strike that invoked this feature.
Superior Martial Strike Requirements: Deft Martial Strike, 11th Level Benefit: As a Bonus Action, you can expect 1-3 Discipline Points to enhance your Unarmed Strikes or Simple Weapons, granting them a bonus to attack and damage rolls equal to the number of Discipline Points spent.The bonus lasts for 1 minute, or until you use this feature again.This cannot be applied to weapons that already have a magical bonus to attack and/or damage rolls.
Choke Hold Requirements: 6th Level Benefit: Every round in which you have a creature Grappled, one of the creatures Grappled by you must make a CON stave against becoming unconscious.
Lock Hold Requirements: 6th Level Benefit: When you have a creature Grappled by you, they can't make attacks against any target other than you, and they have disadvantage on attack rolls against you.
Vicious Hold: Requirements: 6th Level Benefit: At the start of your turn you may roll one martial arts die to deal that much damage to one creature Grappled by you.
Immovable Requirements: Stunning Strike Benefit: When you are Grappled, and not wearing armor nor wielding a shield, you can also set speed of the opponent(s) that has you grappled to 0 even if they aren't grappled.
Prone Fighting Requirements: Slow Fall, Unarmored Defense Benefit: You are not at disadvantage due to being Prone, nor do creatures get Advantage to attack rolls made against you.
Paralyzing Strike Requirements: Stunning Strike, Discipline Points Benefit: Like Stunning Strike, except that it costs 2 Discipline Points, and imposes the Paralyzed condition for a number of turns equal to half of one roll of your martial arts die.
Focused Aim Requirements: Stunning Strike, Discipline Points Benefit: When you miss with an attack roll, you can spend 1 to 3 Discipline Points to increase your attack roll by twice the mount of Discipline Points, potentially turning the miss into a hit.
Surgical Precision Requirements: 11th Level, Focused Aim Benefit: When you use Focused Aim, and spend 2 extra Discipline Points above the cost of Focused Aim, you are modifying the attack roll die result itself, potentially turning a hit or miss into a natural 20, and therefore a critical hit.
Perfection Endurance Requirements: Self Restoration, Body Development Benefit: Whenever you finish a Long Rest or Short Rest, you can choose to have a number of temporary hit points equal to your Level * Constitution Modifier.
Mind's Hand Requirements: Discipline Points Benefit: You learn the Mage Hand cantrip and can cast it without needing to use any components.
Mind's Arrow Requirements: Discipline Points Benefit: You learn the Mind Sliver cantrip and can cast it without needing to use any components.
Mind's Speech Requirements: Discipline Points Benefit: You learn the Message cantrip and can cast it without needing to use any components (including the initial gesture of pointing at the target).
Fast Healing Requirements: 4th Level, Discipline Points Benefit: You learn the Cure Wounds spell, and can spend 2 Discipline Points to cast it on yourself without needing to spend a spell slot, and without needing to use any components.For each extra Discipline Point spent, past the initial 2, you increase the effective level of the spell slot used to cast Cure Wounds.If you have spell slots, you may also use spell slots instead of Discipline Points to cast this spell.
Quick Healing Requirements: 4th Level, Discipline Points Benefit: You learn the Healing Word spell, and can spend 2 Discipline Points to cast it on yourself without needing to spend a spell slot, and without needing to use any components.For each extra Discipline Point spent, past the initial 2, you increase the effective level of the spell slot used to cast Cure Wounds.If you have spell slots, you may also use spell slots instead of Discipline Points to cast this spell.
Leap Requirements: Step of the Wind, Discipline Points Benefit: You learn the Jump spell, and can spend 2 Discipline Points to cast it on yourself without needing to spend a spell slot, and without needing to use any components.If you have spell slots, you may also use spell slots instead of Discipline Points to cast this spell.
Levitation Requirements: Slow Fall, At least 3 Discipline Points Benefit: You learn the Levitate spell, and can spend 3 Discipline Points to cast it on yourself without needing to spend a spell slot, and without needing to use any components.If you have spell slots, you may also use spell slots instead of Discipline Points to cast this spell.
Detect Thoughts Requirements: 5th Level, at least 3 Discipline Points Benefit: You learn the Detect Thoughts spell, and can spend 3 Discipline Points to cast it without needing to spend a spell slot, and without needing to use any components.If you have spell slots, you may also use spell slots instead of Discipline Points to cast this spell.
Escape Artist Requirements: 7th Level, at least 5 Discipline Points Benefit: you learn the Freedom of Movement spell, and can spend 5 Discipline Points to cast it on yourself without needing to spend a spell slot, and without needing to use any components.If you have spell slots, you may also use spell slots instead of Discipline Points to cast this spell.
Telekinesis Requirements: 9th Level, at least 6 Discipline Points Benefit: You learn the Telekinesis spell, and can spend 6 Discipline Points to cast it without needing to spend a spell slot, and without needing to use any components.If you have spell slots, you may also use spell slots instead of Discipline Points to cast this spell.
Empty Body Requirements: 9th Level, at least 3 Discipline Points Benefit: You learn the Invisibility spell, and can spend 3 Discipline Points to cast it on yourself without needing to spend a spell slot, and without needing to use any components.If you have spell slots, you may also use spell slots instead of Discipline Points to cast this spell.
Etherealness Requirements: 13th Level, Empty Body, at least 8 Discipline Points Benefit: You learn the Etherealness spell, and can spend 8 Discipline Points to cast it on yourself without needing to spend a spell slot, and without needing to use any components.If you have spell slots, you may also use spell slots instead of Discipline Points to cast this spell.
Astral Body Requirements: 17th Level, Empty Body, at least 10 Discipline Points Benefit: You learn the Astral Projection spell, and can spend 10 Discipline Points to cast it on yourself without needing to spend a spell slot, and without needing to use any components.If you have spell slots, you may also use spell slots instead of Discipline Points to cast this spell.
I moved Weapon Mastery to the "Warrior of Weapons" (rename for the Kensei) subclass:
3rd Level
You gain proficiency with Martial Weapons, and Calligrapher’s Tools.
Chosen Weapons: You pick one melee weapon and one ranged weapon.You must already be proficient with these weapons, and they may not have the Heavy property.
You may use Martial Arts Masteries that use Unarmed Strikes with your Chosen Weapons, except “Bonus Unarmed Strike”, “Flurry of Blows", "Crescent Attack", "Push", "Sap", "Slow", and "Vex".("Push", "Sap", "Slow", and "Vex" benefits can be achieved with a weapon via the Weapon Masteries of the same name; "Crescent Attack" benefit can be achieved with a weapon via the "Cleave" Weapon Mastery)
Any Monk feature, other than Martial Arts Masteries, that works with Simple weapons may also be used with your Chosen Weapons (Even if your Chosen Weapon has the Two Handed property).
If you have the ability to cast spells, you can use your Chosen Weapons as a spell casting focus.
If any of your Chosen Weapons have the Thrown property, you may use a Bonus Action to bestow the "Returning" property to some or all them (your choice).They must be in your possession (in your carried equipment, in your hand, etc.) when you do this.It costs 1 Discipline Point per weapon to do this, and lasts for 10 minutes.
You learn one Weapon Mastery for one of your Chosen Weapons.
6th Level
You may select a third weapon as a Chosen Weapon.You must already be proficient with it, but it may be Heavy.
Your “Energetic Strikes” Monk class feature also applies to your Chosen Weapons.
You learn a second Weapon Mastery, which must be one that can be used with one of your Chosen Weapons.
11th Level
You may select a fourth weapon as a Chosen Weapon.You must already be proficient with it, but it may be Heavy.
You may use the “Bonus Unarmed Strike” Monk class feature with your Chosen Weapons.
You learn a third Weapon Mastery, which must be one that can be used with one of your Chosen Weapons.
17th Level
You may select a fifth weapon as a Chosen Weapon.You must already be proficient with it, but it may be Heavy.
You may use the “Flurry of Blows” Monk class feature with your Chosen Weapons.
Once per turn, if you miss with an attack roll using a Simple Weapon or Chosen Weapon, you may re-roll the attack roll.
You learn a fourth Weapon Mastery, which must be one that can be used with one of your Chosen Weapons.
Fighting Style: You are qualified to take the Fighting Style feats, but you do not get one as part of this feature.
Just on this point - why not make Martial Arts into a Fighting Style that is exclusive to the Monk? The same way that the Warlock, Sorcerer and Wizard now have unique spells that are exclusive to their class?
Why bother making a Feat that only one class can take? (in OneD&D, Fighting Styles are Feats)
Adding that bullet item was mainly about fixing a hole in the latest OneD&D document that excludes the Monk from taking Fighting Styles.
And since Feats were mentioned, here's the Feats that go with that (and replace the Unarmed Fighting version of Fighting Style -- slowing down the progression of unarmed damage with that style so that it's not better than a Monk, and also making it Martial Arts Mastery based instead of a specific extra benefit):
Feat: Fighting Style: Unarmed Requirements: Weapon Mastery feature and Fighting Style Feature Benefit: You gain the following benefits:
Your unarmed strikes deal damage equal to 1d4 + your Strength modifier.
Except for Weapon Mastery features, any Features, Abilities, or Spells that you have which work with melee weapons may be used on/with your unarmed strikes.
You may give up a Weapon Mastery that you have, and/or gain in the future, to instead gain a Martial Arts Mastery, provided that you otherwise have all of the requirements for it.You may change any of your Martial Arts Masteries when you would gain a Feat, provided that you otherwise have all of the requirements for it.You may revert a Martial Arts Mastery to a Weapon Mastery, if it was originally a Weapon Mastery, when you would gain a Feat.
Unless you have the "Monastic Discipline" feature, you may pick Wisdom or Intelligence as your Mystical Attribute to use with any Martial Arts Mastery that mentions a Mystical Attribute.If you already have, or later acquire, the "Monastic Discipline" feature, that feature determines your Mystical Attribute. (note: if you have this feat available, the 5e Fighting Style feat for Unarmed Fighting should not be brought forward from 5e)
Feat: Martial Arts Initiate Requirements: None Benefit: You gain the following benefits:
Your unarmed strikes deal damage equal to 1d4 + your Strength modifier.
You may select one Martial Arts Mastery, provided that you otherwise have all of the requirements for it.You may change any of your Martial Arts Masteries when you would gain a Feat.
Unless you have the "Monastic Discipline" feature, you may pick Wisdom or Intelligence as your Mystical Attribute to use with any Martial Arts Mastery that mentions a Mystical Attribute.If you already have, or later acquire, the "Monastic Discipline" feature, that feature determines your Mystical Attribute. (note: if you have this feat available, the 5e Fighting Style feat for Unarmed Fighting should not be brought forward from 5e)
Feat: Martial Arts Adept Requirements: Martial Arts Initiate or Fighting Style: Unarmed, 6th Level Benefit: Your unarmed strikes deal damage equal to 1d6 + your Strength modifier.Further, you may select one Martial Arts Mastery, provided that you otherwise have all of the requirements for it.You may change any of your Martial Arts Masteries when you would gain a Feat. (note: if you have this feat available, the 5e Fighting Style feat for Unarmed Fighting should not be brought forward from 5e)
Feat: Martial Arts Master Requirements: Martial Arts Adept, 12th Level Benefit: Your unarmed strikes deal damage equal to 1d8 + your Strength modifier.Further, you may select one Martial Arts Mastery, provided that you otherwise have all of the requirements for it.You may change any of your Martial Arts Masteries when you would gain a Feat. (note: if you have this feat available, the 5e Fighting Style feat for Unarmed Fighting should not be brought forward from 5e)
Feat: Disciplined Warrior Requirements: Any Martial Arts Mastery Benefit: You have 2 Discipline Points (or two more if you already have Discipline Points).You regain these spent Discipline Points, if you have spent any of them, when you complete a Short Rest or Long Rest.You may also select one Martial Arts Mastery, provided that you have all of the requirements for it, and that it costs Discipline Points.You may change any of your Martial Arts Masteries when you would gain a Feat.
Feat: Martial Arts Student Requirements: Any Martial Arts Mastery Benefit: You may select two Martial Arts Masteries, provided that you otherwise have all of the requirements for them.You may change any of your Martial Arts Masteries when you would gain a Feat.
This is why the ability should be improved. Being missed by an attack of a certain type and having a target within range are already plenty of conditions. It should not cost extra Ki, nor should it require a Reaction.
It only costs those things in the situation where it's useful. If an improvement is needed, it should be one that makes it more frequently relevant.
Sorry, what does this even mean? Of course it "costs those things in the situation where it's useful". Unless you are suggesting an alternative, you're not adding anything.
Making the ability Not cost a Reaction is part of how it becomes more frequently relevant b/c A) As it's currently written in XGE, if the DrunkM Monk has spent reaction, it can't use this ability, and B) Monster multi-attack makes the XGE DrunkM ability pretty weak since you only ever get 1 Reaction per round of combat. If you get rid of the Reaction cost, that opens the ability up to be used more than once per round and frees up the Reaction for other potential Reactions.
And since Feats were mentioned, here's the Feats that go with that (and replace the Unarmed Fighting version of Fighting Style -- slowing down the progression of unarmed damage with that style so that it's not better than a Monk, and also making it Martial Arts Mastery based instead of a specific extra benefit):
All you're doing is ripping apart classes into a million feats so people can build-a-bear their character, which is just not what 5e D&D is about.
Monk should just get proficiency in Martial weapons, and be restricted to weapons lacking the two-handed property. To incentivize using Unarmed Strikes not just weapons, they should get free choice of any weapon mastery for their unarmed strikes.
To support STR-based unarmed fighters just add: Feat: Brawler 4th level feat ASI: +1 STR/CON
You gain proficiency in improvised weapons.
Improvised weapons and unarmed strikes deal 1d6+STR on a hit.
Your unarmed strikes count as Light melee weapons but do not occupy your hand.
You add double your proficiency bonus to attacks/ability checks/saving throw DC to grapple or shove another creature.
If you have the Weapon Mastery feature, your unarmed strikes gain either the Nick or Vex mastery (your choice when you select this feat).
Fighting Style: Unarmed Fighting
You unarmed strikes deal 1d8+STR on a hit
When you reach 6th level, your unarmed strikes count as magical for the purposes of overcoming resistances.
Monk AC is on par with other DEX-based classes, so I don't know what everyone is arguing about with getting to AC21... Rogues and Rangers make due with 12(studded leather)+DEX for most of their adventuring career, why does a monk need AC 21 to be viable?
Rangers have more hit points. Ranger's d10 vs. Monk's d8. Also, a lot of people play Rangers with Sharpshooter+Crossbow expert.
Rogues don't need be on the front line to be effective. Sharpshooter + Crossbow Expert + Sneak Attack is already one of the top tier builds in the game. Most Monks completely sacrifice the ability to Flurry of Blows if they stay at range.
And since Feats were mentioned, here's the Feats that go with that (and replace the Unarmed Fighting version of Fighting Style -- slowing down the progression of unarmed damage with that style so that it's not better than a Monk, and also making it Martial Arts Mastery based instead of a specific extra benefit):
All you're doing is ripping apart classes into a million feats so people can build-a-bear their character, which is just not what 5e D&D is about.
No. Every part of that hyperbolic statement is false. Especially since every part of that set of Feats is applying existing cross-class ability Feats from 5e for the exact same purpose of their existence in 5e, just to a different base class. Any beef you have about Feats that give a light dip of cross-classing without full-on Multi-classing is not a beef you have here, it's a beef you have with 5e itself and WOTC, so go argue it with the game designers who already built that in to the 2014 PHB, and expanded it again in later books. It's not my job to defend WOTCs official content that promotes cross-class abilities via Feats. Take that axe-grinding to them. I'm not going to waste my time on that ignorance.
Monk should just get proficiency in Martial weapons
No. Not even worth discussing, as it has already been covered: "Warrior of Weapons" (kensei) should get Martial Weapons (and in my proposal, they do). General Monks should not. You don't agree? Don't use my proposal. It wont be changing to suit you.
To support STR-based unarmed fighters just add: Feat: Brawler
Fighting Style: Unarmed Fighting
So, at first level, a Fighter can do better unarmed strikes damage than a Monk. No. Non-Starter. Not even worthy of debate. And, at 4th level, anyone can do as much damage with unarmed strikes as a Monk. No. Non-Starter. Not even worthy of debate.
My Feat progress gives the same potential as the 5e Unarmed Fighting Style, but at no point would allow the feats to outpace a single classed Monk. It also makes the exact extra benefit of that original fighting style (the damage while grappling) instead be a flexible pick that allows the character to differentiate (a little) just what their Martial Art might be. The other two Feats in my set then allow anyone (including the Monk) to do what Feats like Martial Adept, Metamagic Adept, and Fighting Initiate do: allow any class to have a slight touch of "cross classing" without full on multi-classing ... and also allows the classes based on those Feats to add-on to their own repertoire (for example: Sorcerers can take Metemagic Adept and get 2 more options and 2 extra sorcery points). There is nothing controversial or class-ripping here, just re-applying similar concepts that already exist in the Feat library. Your hyperbolic objection that it is such a thing is completely without value or merit.
Not only is nothing about this new to 5e and how it works, none of it is particularly new to the Monk class, either, when you look back to past editions. Which I noted in one of those posts: there are things here that came from 1e Monks, 1e OA treatment of Monks and Martial Arts (which includes cross-class availability of Martial Arts abilities, as well as several of those Martial Arts Masteries being lifted nearly-directly from that set of abilities), and 3e Monks. And the Feats are direct re-applications of existing 5e Feats.
Monk AC is on par with other DEX-based classes, so I don't know what everyone is arguing about with getting to AC21... Rogues and Rangers make due with 12(studded leather)+DEX for most of their adventuring career, why does a monk need AC 21 to be viable?
Rangers have more hit points. Ranger's d10 vs. Monk's d8. Also, a lot of people play Rangers with Sharpshooter+Crossbow expert.
Rogues don't need be on the front line to be effective. Sharpshooter + Crossbow Expert + Sneak Attack is already one of the top tier builds in the game. Most Monks completely sacrifice the ability to Flurry of Blows if they stay at range.
Rangers and Rogues also have more options wrt to magical bonuses to their AC. They don't "make do with 12+ DexMod". They get magical studded leather. In addition: Rangers can get magical medium armors (breast plate not having a stealth disadvantage), and use magical shields. A Ranger can also get Medium Armor Master feat to increase the DEX Mod cap on their breast plate. So where the Monk can _theoretically_ top out at an AC of 20 if they get BOTH their DEX and WIS to 20 each ... the Ranger doesn't have to max out either of those attributes (they can, and it would help them, just not with their AC), and can get to an AC of 20 with just a 16 DEX, +1 Breastplate, Medium Armor Master, and a normal shield. The Monk has to go to peak optimization to get there, the Ranger doesn't. The Ranger only needs an easily achievable 1st level DEX, one tier-1 magic item, and one Feat.
I'm not saying this needs to be fixed, I'm saying that the phrase "Monk AC is on par with other DEX-based classes" is just not accurate.
Fighting Style: You are qualified to take the Fighting Style feats, but you do not get one as part of this feature.
Just on this point - why not make Martial Arts into a Fighting Style that is exclusive to the Monk? The same way that the Warlock, Sorcerer and Wizard now have unique spells that are exclusive to their class?
Why bother making a Feat that only one class can take? (in OneD&D, Fighting Styles are Feats)
Adding that bullet item was mainly about fixing a hole in the latest OneD&D document that excludes the Monk from taking Fighting Styles.
Uh, for the exact same reason that they make unique spells that only one particular spell-casting class can use? To differentiate the class from the other "warrior" classes in style and flavour.
I fully understand that Fighting Styles are feats - it's right there on level 1 of the Fighter's re-design from the last UA so that they can get their Fighting Style in addition to the feat every character gets to choose with their background at level 1 (unless I've missed an update where they've gotten rid of the lvl 1 feats!).
1ST LEVEL: FIGHTING STYLE
You have honed your martial prowess and gain the Fighting Style: Defense feat, or you gain another Fighting Style feat of your choice.
Monk AC is on par with other DEX-based classes, so I don't know what everyone is arguing about with getting to AC21... Rogues and Rangers make due with 12(studded leather)+DEX for most of their adventuring career, why does a monk need AC 21 to be viable?
Rangers have more hit points. Ranger's d10 vs. Monk's d8. Also, a lot of people play Rangers with Sharpshooter+Crossbow expert.
Rogues don't need be on the front line to be effective. Sharpshooter + Crossbow Expert + Sneak Attack is already one of the top tier builds in the game. Most Monks completely sacrifice the ability to Flurry of Blows if they stay at range.
Rangers and Rogues also have more options wrt to magical bonuses to their AC. They don't "make do with 12+ DexMod". They get magical studded leather. In addition: Rangers can get magical medium armors (breast plate not having a stealth disadvantage), and use magical shields. A Ranger can also get Medium Armor Master feat to increase the DEX Mod cap on their breast plate. So where the Monk can _theoretically_ top out at an AC of 20 if they get BOTH their DEX and WIS to 20 each ... the Ranger doesn't have to max out either of those attributes (they can, and it would help them, just not with their AC), and can get to an AC of 20 with just a 16 DEX, +1 Breastplate, Medium Armor Master, and a normal shield. The Monk has to go to peak optimization to get there, the Ranger doesn't. The Ranger only needs an easily achievable 1st level DEX, one tier-1 magic item, and one Feat.
I'm not saying this needs to be fixed, I'm saying that the phrase "Monk AC is on par with other DEX-based classes" is just not accurate.
If you have to make dishonest arguments to make your point, then you don't have a point.
The baseline assumption is they're on near-equal footing in terms of AC. And the 2014 feats come with an explicit warning about making characters more powerful than they otherwise would be. The unstated, yet still implied, addendum is these feats can exacerbate the differences between classes. Your example gives rangers and rogues upwards of three feats and magic items without extending any consideration to the monk. So, what magic items might you give the monk to cover some of those shortfalls?
I've played two monks, and I've had the pleasure of seeing six others played. None of us ever complained or thought they weren't pulling their own weight. Monks can and do keep up. Anyone who tells you differently is selling something.
Fighting Style: You are qualified to take the Fighting Style feats, but you do not get one as part of this feature.
Just on this point - why not make Martial Arts into a Fighting Style that is exclusive to the Monk? The same way that the Warlock, Sorcerer and Wizard now have unique spells that are exclusive to their class?
Why bother making a Feat that only one class can take? (in OneD&D, Fighting Styles are Feats)
Adding that bullet item was mainly about fixing a hole in the latest OneD&D document that excludes the Monk from taking Fighting Styles.
Uh, for the exact same reason that they make unique spells that only one particular spell-casting class can use? To differentiate the class from the other "warrior" classes in style and flavour.
I fully understand that Fighting Styles are feats - it's right there on level 1 of the Fighter's re-design from the last UA so that they can get their Fighting Style in addition to the feat every character gets to choose with their background at level 1 (unless I've missed an update where they've gotten rid of the lvl 1 feats!).
1ST LEVEL: FIGHTING STYLE
You have honed your martial prowess and gain the Fighting Style: Defense feat, or you gain another Fighting Style feat of your choice.
Right, but none of the Fighting Style feats are limited to a single class. It's not like the class-specific spells at all.
Fighting Style: You are qualified to take the Fighting Style feats, but you do not get one as part of this feature.
Just on this point - why not make Martial Arts into a Fighting Style that is exclusive to the Monk? The same way that the Warlock, Sorcerer and Wizard now have unique spells that are exclusive to their class?
Why bother making a Feat that only one class can take? (in OneD&D, Fighting Styles are Feats)
Adding that bullet item was mainly about fixing a hole in the latest OneD&D document that excludes the Monk from taking Fighting Styles.
Uh, for the exact same reason that they make unique spells that only one particular spell-casting class can use? To differentiate the class from the other "warrior" classes in style and flavour.
I fully understand that Fighting Styles are feats - it's right there on level 1 of the Fighter's re-design from the last UA so that they can get their Fighting Style in addition to the feat every character gets to choose with their background at level 1 (unless I've missed an update where they've gotten rid of the lvl 1 feats!).
1ST LEVEL: FIGHTING STYLE
You have honed your martial prowess and gain the Fighting Style: Defense feat, or you gain another Fighting Style feat of your choice.
Right, but none of the Fighting Style feats are limited to a single class. It's not like the class-specific spells at all.
They're all limited to fighters at 1st-level. The prerequisite is now possessing the Fighting Style feature. Only the fighter starts the game with one, and the only way to acquire one later is via the 4th-level feat and have the feature from a class or subclass which already grants one.
Which means barbarians and monks, previously part of the now defunct warrior group, cannot choose them on their own. Ever.
Fighting Style: You are qualified to take the Fighting Style feats, but you do not get one as part of this feature.
Just on this point - why not make Martial Arts into a Fighting Style that is exclusive to the Monk? The same way that the Warlock, Sorcerer and Wizard now have unique spells that are exclusive to their class?
Why bother making a Feat that only one class can take? (in OneD&D, Fighting Styles are Feats)
Adding that bullet item was mainly about fixing a hole in the latest OneD&D document that excludes the Monk from taking Fighting Styles.
Uh, for the exact same reason that they make unique spells that only one particular spell-casting class can use? To differentiate the class from the other "warrior" classes in style and flavour.
I fully understand that Fighting Styles are feats - it's right there on level 1 of the Fighter's re-design from the last UA so that they can get their Fighting Style in addition to the feat every character gets to choose with their background at level 1 (unless I've missed an update where they've gotten rid of the lvl 1 feats!).
1ST LEVEL: FIGHTING STYLE
You have honed your martial prowess and gain the Fighting Style: Defense feat, or you gain another Fighting Style feat of your choice.
Right, but none of the Fighting Style feats are limited to a single class. It's not like the class-specific spells at all.
Which is, like everything else, only true until it happens. Given that the only base classes I can see with the Fighting Style feature at the moment are the Fighter, Paladin and Ranger, who's to say that they won't be given class-specific Fighting Styles in the next update?
Monk AC is on par with other DEX-based classes, so I don't know what everyone is arguing about with getting to AC21... Rogues and Rangers make due with 12(studded leather)+DEX for most of their adventuring career, why does a monk need AC 21 to be viable?
Rangers have more hit points. Ranger's d10 vs. Monk's d8. Also, a lot of people play Rangers with Sharpshooter+Crossbow expert.
Rogues don't need be on the front line to be effective. Sharpshooter + Crossbow Expert + Sneak Attack is already one of the top tier builds in the game. Most Monks completely sacrifice the ability to Flurry of Blows if they stay at range.
Rangers and Rogues also have more options wrt to magical bonuses to their AC. They don't "make do with 12+ DexMod". They get magical studded leather. In addition: Rangers can get magical medium armors (breast plate not having a stealth disadvantage), and use magical shields. A Ranger can also get Medium Armor Master feat to increase the DEX Mod cap on their breast plate. So where the Monk can _theoretically_ top out at an AC of 20 if they get BOTH their DEX and WIS to 20 each ... the Ranger doesn't have to max out either of those attributes (they can, and it would help them, just not with their AC), and can get to an AC of 20 with just a 16 DEX, +1 Breastplate, Medium Armor Master, and a normal shield. The Monk has to go to peak optimization to get there, the Ranger doesn't. The Ranger only needs an easily achievable 1st level DEX, one tier-1 magic item, and one Feat.
I'm not saying this needs to be fixed, I'm saying that the phrase "Monk AC is on par with other DEX-based classes" is just not accurate.
If you have to make dishonest arguments to make your point, then you don't have a point.
That applies more to your reply than mine.
The baseline assumption is they're on near-equal footing in terms of AC. And the 2014 feats come with an explicit warning about making characters more powerful than they otherwise would be. The unstated, yet still implied, addendum is these feats can exacerbate the differences between classes. Your example gives rangers and rogues upwards of three feats and magic items without extending any consideration to the monk. So, what magic items might you give the monk to cover some of those shortfalls?
One Feat and one Magic Item, or two Magic Items (which is entirely reasonable given Tier-2 parameters) not Three:
Starting Dex of 16 (easily achievable using Standard Array and 1st level attribute bonuses).
A tier-2 magic item; one you can get freely with tier-2 AL play (my only inaccuracy was saying it was Tier-1 and not Tier-2)
One Feat. And if you don't want them to get Feats, then they just need a +1 shield: Still something you can achieve during Tier-2 where you are expected to have up to 3 uncommon magic items).
All easily achievable by the Ranger between levels 5-10, using a completely common benchmark (AL Tiers).
Meanwhile, for the Monk to get that same AC, the Monk needs to max out BOTH Dex and Wis to 20. Using Standard Array, you're going to need 4 complete ASI's to get there (assuming your attribute bonuses went to Dex and Wis, and you picked your two highest values for Dex and Wis -- both reasonable assumptions). You're not going to get there before 12th level.
So, setting aside a ring or cloak of protection (which both the Ranger and Monk could have picked, so no advantage to either build) a Ranger can easily get there as soon as 5th level, a Monk can't get there before 12th level, and probably wont get there before 16th level.
Does the Monk also get up to 3 uncommon magic items? Sure. But the point is (and I said with "Rangers and Rogues also have more options"): they can't use magic armor nor magic shields to get there. That's not me being dishonest, that's you lacking basic reading comprehension. Can the Monk get there sooner with a +1 ring of protection and a +1 cloak of protection? All that does is mean that the Monk needs 18/18 or 20/16 (or 16/20) stat values in Dex and Wis instead of 20/20. Which still means burning several ASI/Feats where the Ranger only needs to burn one ASI/Feat.
And that, if you still haven't caught on, is the point: None of this requires more than one ASI/Feat from the Ranger, and if you have a bug up your posterior about Feats, they can do it with ZERO ASI/Feats and just use their Tier-2 magic item(s). Even WITH those magic items, the Monk still needs to burn multiple ASIs to get there, and each of those ASIs is a 4 level delay compared to the Ranger getting to AC 20.
I've played two monks, and I've had the pleasure of seeing six others played. None of us ever complained or thought they weren't pulling their own weight. Monks can and do keep up. Anyone who tells you differently is selling something.
I've played multiple monks. It's one of my favorite classes.
The general statement that they can "keep up" isn't in question. So your indignation in this last quote is completely irrelevant to the actual contention. No need to be an over-zealous fanboy, grasshopper. Especially not when it clouds basic good analysis and reading comprehension.
The question was about whether or not their AC specifically keeps up with the Ranger and Rogue. It doesn't, specifically because the Ranger and Rogue have more AC options than the Monk has. Ones that not only give them a bonus, but also give them a higher base.
Fighting Style: You are qualified to take the Fighting Style feats, but you do not get one as part of this feature.
Just on this point - why not make Martial Arts into a Fighting Style that is exclusive to the Monk? The same way that the Warlock, Sorcerer and Wizard now have unique spells that are exclusive to their class?
Why bother making a Feat that only one class can take? (in OneD&D, Fighting Styles are Feats)
Adding that bullet item was mainly about fixing a hole in the latest OneD&D document that excludes the Monk from taking Fighting Styles.
Uh, for the exact same reason that they make unique spells that only one particular spell-casting class can use? To differentiate the class from the other "warrior" classes in style and flavour.
I fully understand that Fighting Styles are feats - it's right there on level 1 of the Fighter's re-design from the last UA so that they can get their Fighting Style in addition to the feat every character gets to choose with their background at level 1 (unless I've missed an update where they've gotten rid of the lvl 1 feats!).
1ST LEVEL: FIGHTING STYLE
You have honed your martial prowess and gain the Fighting Style: Defense feat, or you gain another Fighting Style feat of your choice.
Right, but none of the Fighting Style feats are limited to a single class. It's not like the class-specific spells at all.
They're all limited to fighters at 1st-level. The prerequisite is now possessing the Fighting Style feature. Only the fighter starts the game with one, and the only way to acquire one later is via the 4th-level feat and have the feature from a class or subclass which already grants one.
Which means barbarians and monks, previously part of the now defunct warrior group, cannot choose them on their own. Ever.
None of them are limited to the Fighter at 1st level. None of them are level limited at all. They're only limited to having a class that has the Fighting Style feature (as of playtest document 6). Guess what everyone gets at 1st level? A Feat from their background. RAW, a Paladin and Ranger can customize their Background (and if they're Human use their 1st Level Human Feat) to pick Fighting Style Feat(s), giving them 1 or 2 Fighting Styles at 1st level, and one more when their Class gives them one at 2nd level. ... because as of playtest document 6, they have the Fighting Style feature.
But EVEN IF you decide that their class(es) have to already have awarded the Fighting Style in order to use a Feat to get one ... that doesn't change what I said: the Feat itself is not limited to a single class (Rangers and Paladins qualify for them). My statement isn't bound by 1st level. And those spells you're comparing them to don't somehow become available to more classes as you go up in level: they are always (not just at 1st level) restricted to that class.
There is no way in which Fighting Style is comparable to class-specific spells.
Fighting Style: You are qualified to take the Fighting Style feats, but you do not get one as part of this feature.
Just on this point - why not make Martial Arts into a Fighting Style that is exclusive to the Monk? The same way that the Warlock, Sorcerer and Wizard now have unique spells that are exclusive to their class?
Why bother making a Feat that only one class can take? (in OneD&D, Fighting Styles are Feats)
Adding that bullet item was mainly about fixing a hole in the latest OneD&D document that excludes the Monk from taking Fighting Styles.
Uh, for the exact same reason that they make unique spells that only one particular spell-casting class can use? To differentiate the class from the other "warrior" classes in style and flavour.
I fully understand that Fighting Styles are feats - it's right there on level 1 of the Fighter's re-design from the last UA so that they can get their Fighting Style in addition to the feat every character gets to choose with their background at level 1 (unless I've missed an update where they've gotten rid of the lvl 1 feats!).
1ST LEVEL: FIGHTING STYLE
You have honed your martial prowess and gain the Fighting Style: Defense feat, or you gain another Fighting Style feat of your choice.
Right, but none of the Fighting Style feats are limited to a single class. It's not like the class-specific spells at all.
Which is, like everything else, only true until it happens. Given that the only base classes I can see with the Fighting Style feature at the moment are the Fighter, Paladin and Ranger, who's to say that they won't be given class-specific Fighting Styles in the next update?
Who's to say that WOTC wont give us all a free ice cream at Ben and Jerry's on the next update? Who's to say that WIOTC wont cancel OneD&D entirely and stick with the current state of 5e? Who's to say that an extinction level event wont happen before the next update?
Basing your argument, about the current state of the OneD&D rules, on things that "may happen in the future" is not really a solid foundation, especially when it has no basis in existing trends of the updates.
Fighting Style: You are qualified to take the Fighting Style feats, but you do not get one as part of this feature.
Just on this point - why not make Martial Arts into a Fighting Style that is exclusive to the Monk? The same way that the Warlock, Sorcerer and Wizard now have unique spells that are exclusive to their class?
Why bother making a Feat that only one class can take? (in OneD&D, Fighting Styles are Feats)
Adding that bullet item was mainly about fixing a hole in the latest OneD&D document that excludes the Monk from taking Fighting Styles.
Uh, for the exact same reason that they make unique spells that only one particular spell-casting class can use? To differentiate the class from the other "warrior" classes in style and flavour.
I fully understand that Fighting Styles are feats - it's right there on level 1 of the Fighter's re-design from the last UA so that they can get their Fighting Style in addition to the feat every character gets to choose with their background at level 1 (unless I've missed an update where they've gotten rid of the lvl 1 feats!).
1ST LEVEL: FIGHTING STYLE
You have honed your martial prowess and gain the Fighting Style: Defense feat, or you gain another Fighting Style feat of your choice.
Right, but none of the Fighting Style feats are limited to a single class. It's not like the class-specific spells at all.
They're all limited to fighters at 1st-level. The prerequisite is now possessing the Fighting Style feature. Only the fighter starts the game with one, and the only way to acquire one later is via the 4th-level feat and have the feature from a class or subclass which already grants one.
Which means barbarians and monks, previously part of the now defunct warrior group, cannot choose them on their own. Ever.
None of them are limited to the Fighter at 1st level. None of them are level limited at all. They're only limited to having a class that has the Fighting Style feature (as of playtest document 6). Guess what everyone gets at 1st level? A Feat from their background. RAW, a Paladin and Ranger can customize their Background (and if they're Human use their 1st Level Human Feat) to pick Fighting Style Feat(s), giving them 1 or 2 Fighting Styles at 1st level, and one more when their Class gives them one at 2nd level. ... because as of playtest document 6, they have the Fighting Style feature.
But EVEN IF you decide that their class(es) have to already have awarded the Fighting Style in order to use a Feat to get one ... that doesn't change what I said: the Feat itself is not limited to a single class (Rangers and Paladins qualify for them). My statement isn't bound by 1st level. And those spells you're comparing them to don't somehow become available to more classes as you go up in level: they are always (not just at 1st level) restricted to that class.
There is no way in which Fighting Style is comparable to class-specific spells.
False. You don't have a class feature until you have the appropriate levels in your class to receive the feature. The only class which can choose a Fighting Style feat at 1st-level, whether through a Background or the free feat for being a human, is the fighter.
As of this playtest, the only other classes which can choose such a feat are paladins and rangers. And they can only do so from 4th-level on. And there are a few subclasses, such as the College of Swords, which grant a fighting style. Absent that feature, nobody else can learn them; regardless of level.
I don't know why you want to make this a discussion on class-specific spells. I wasn't contesting that assertion. Rather, I clarified some obvious misrepresentation on your part.
###
I also think it's rich for you to insult my reading comprehension over something you never bothered to type out in the first place. You know, the thing I criticized you for in the other post you responded to.
I'll continue to stand by my earlier words, Johnny. Every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
The core AC advantage that rogues have is that basic magic armor doesn't require attunement. A 14 wisdom monk with no magic items has the same AC as a rogue in studded leather. That same monk with bracers of defense (rare) has better AC than a rogue with +1 studded leather armor (rare). The rogue only actually pulls ahead when he either gets legendary armor or attunement slots become a meaningful resource problem -- both of which probably don't happen before tier 3, by which time the monk can probably arrange to boost wisdom.
However, what this calculation leaves out is... melee rogues are highly prone to getting mauled, which is why an awful lot of rogues spend lots of time being archers. Monks aren't completely useless as archers, they're generally better off than any strength-based build, but they're a lot worse at it than a ranger or rogue. Melee-focused classes should really either have additional survival advantages, or have an explicit hit and run ability (e.g. fancy footwork on the duelist) that they can use without significant damage penalties. Step of the Wind, because it costs discipline points and a bonus action, does not qualify.
Way of Shadow monks (via Darkness on a carried object) or Elements monks (via the reach from Elemental Attunement) do have adequate hit and run capabilities. Open Hand used to have that ability... until they added a save to Addle. If it was too powerful, just change it from "it can’t take Reactions until the end of your next turn" to "it can’t take Reactions until the end of your current turn" and remove the save.
Fighting Style: You are qualified to take the Fighting Style feats, but you do not get one as part of this feature.
Just on this point - why not make Martial Arts into a Fighting Style that is exclusive to the Monk? The same way that the Warlock, Sorcerer and Wizard now have unique spells that are exclusive to their class?
Why bother making a Feat that only one class can take? (in OneD&D, Fighting Styles are Feats)
Adding that bullet item was mainly about fixing a hole in the latest OneD&D document that excludes the Monk from taking Fighting Styles.
Uh, for the exact same reason that they make unique spells that only one particular spell-casting class can use? To differentiate the class from the other "warrior" classes in style and flavour.
I fully understand that Fighting Styles are feats - it's right there on level 1 of the Fighter's re-design from the last UA so that they can get their Fighting Style in addition to the feat every character gets to choose with their background at level 1 (unless I've missed an update where they've gotten rid of the lvl 1 feats!).
1ST LEVEL: FIGHTING STYLE
You have honed your martial prowess and gain the Fighting Style: Defense feat, or you gain another Fighting Style feat of your choice.
Right, but none of the Fighting Style feats are limited to a single class. It's not like the class-specific spells at all.
They're all limited to fighters at 1st-level. The prerequisite is now possessing the Fighting Style feature. Only the fighter starts the game with one, and the only way to acquire one later is via the 4th-level feat and have the feature from a class or subclass which already grants one.
Which means barbarians and monks, previously part of the now defunct warrior group, cannot choose them on their own. Ever.
None of them are limited to the Fighter at 1st level. None of them are level limited at all. They're only limited to having a class that has the Fighting Style feature (as of playtest document 6). Guess what everyone gets at 1st level? A Feat from their background. RAW, a Paladin and Ranger can customize their Background (and if they're Human use their 1st Level Human Feat) to pick Fighting Style Feat(s), giving them 1 or 2 Fighting Styles at 1st level, and one more when their Class gives them one at 2nd level. ... because as of playtest document 6, they have the Fighting Style feature.
But EVEN IF you decide that their class(es) have to already have awarded the Fighting Style in order to use a Feat to get one ... that doesn't change what I said: the Feat itself is not limited to a single class (Rangers and Paladins qualify for them). My statement isn't bound by 1st level. And those spells you're comparing them to don't somehow become available to more classes as you go up in level: they are always (not just at 1st level) restricted to that class.
There is no way in which Fighting Style is comparable to class-specific spells.
False. You don't have a class feature until you have the appropriate levels in your class to receive the feature.
The pre-req doesn't say "You must already have a Fighting Style". The previous requirement was based on being a class. The current wording isn't clearly stating if its still being a class (just one that happens to grant a Fighting Style, as opposed to being one in the Warrior group) or already having something in your actual build.
The only class which can choose a Fighting Style feat at 1st-level
As I pointed out, "At 1st level" is not relevant to the discussion. This isn't about 1st level restriction. It's about whether or not there are currently (as of the 6th playtest document for OneD&D) any class specific Fighting Styles. There aren't.
As of this playtest, the only other classes which can choose such a feat are paladins and rangers. [Not Relevant bit removed] And there are a few subclasses, such as the College of Swords, which grant a fighting style.
Thank you for admitting that multiple classes get the feature. And since none of the Feats mention a requirement of a specific class, what I said is true: None of the Fighting Styles are class specific. There isn't a precedent for "making an unarmed fighting style feat that is restricted to the monk". That's the discussion.
I don't know why you want to make this a discussion on class-specific spells. I wasn't contesting that assertion. Rather, I clarified some obvious misrepresentation on your part.
That's the point of the argument: There aren't ANY Figthing Styles that are restricted to a single class. I said that. The counter was that it's like class specific spells -- I didn't bring that into the conversation (Dex86 did), it was used a bogus counter to my statement. And my counter argument to that is that it is not even remotely like class restricted spells exactly because there are no Fighting Styles that are unique to a single class: all of them are available to multiple classes.
###
I also think it's rich for you to insult my reading comprehension over something you never bothered to type out in the first place. You know, the thing I criticized you for in the other post you responded to.
It's also rich for you to get indignant about insults when you brought them to the conversation in the first place. If you can't take the heat, don't step into the fire.
Further: "Never bothered to say" is exactly a reading comprehension problem on your part because it is directly implied in what I actually initially said. The reason Monks don't keep up with Rogues and Rangers is that they don't have the same breadth of options. I said that up front, and those options are specifically about Rangers and Rogues having a better selection of magic items that increase AC. That fact that your reading comprehension isn't capable of leaping from A to B isn't me being dishonest nor is it "something I didn't initially say" -- it's you not being able to fill in basic logic, reading, and knowledge steps.
I'll continue to stand by my earlier words, Johnny. Every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
I have no doubt that you'll triple down on ignorance and poor reading comprehension.
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To go with that, these are the Martial Arts Masteries I came up with:
Martial Arts Masteries:
(Note: Any Martial Art Mastery that directly or indirectly requires Unarmored Defense has the same requirement that the user cannot be wearing any form of armor nor wielding a shield when using or benefitting from that Martial Art Mastery.)
For any Martial Arts Mastery that grants you learning a spell, and allows you to also use spell slots to cast that spell (not just Discipline Points), then you cast the spell as written when you cast it via Spell Slots, without the Mastery's potential limitation about only casting it on yourself, nor the Mastery's potential benefit of not needing components (that benefit might still be obtained through other means, however; such as the Subtle Spell metamagic). The spells learned this way do not count against any type of spells known/prepared limitation. Your Spellcasting Ability for these spells is determined by the Monastic Discipline feature.
Most of these are based on things that were previously Monk class features, as well as some from Weapon Masteries, the Rogue's Cunning Attack, optional Monk class Features from Tasha's Cauldron of Everything, and the 1e Oriental Adventures book.
Requirements: None
Benefit: You have Blind Sight with a range of 10 feet, within that range you can effectively see anything that isn't behind total cover, even if you're blinded or in total darkness. You can also see Invisible creatures within that range, unless the creature successfully hides from you.
Requirements: None
Benefit: You gain the Perception Skill Proficiency.
Requirements: None
Benefit: You gain proficient with one Monk skill, an Artisan's Tool, or Musical Instrument of your choice, that you are not proficient with.
Can Be Taken More Than Once: Each time you pick a different Monk's Skill, Artisan's Tool, or Musical Instrument that you are not proficient with.
Requirements: None
Benefit: As with the Weapon Mastery, but you can only apply it to Unarmed Strikes
Requirements: None
Benefit: As with the Weapon Mastery, but you can only apply it to Unarmed Strikes
Requirements: None
Benefit: As with the Weapon Mastery, but you can only apply it to Unarmed Strikes
Requirements: None
Benefit: As with the Weapon Mastery, but you can only apply it to Unarmed Strikes
Requirements: Martial Discipline
Benefit: If you hit a creature with an unarmed strike, you can make an attack roll against a second creature within 5 feet of the original target, that is also within your unarmed strike reach. If that attack roll hits, the second creature takes the same damage as the original attack, but without your ability modifier to that damage (unless that modifier is negative). You can make this extra attack only once per turn.
Requirements: Monastic Discipline
Benefit: You may substitute your Mystical Attribute modifier instead of your Constitution modifier as your Hit Point bonus.
Requirements: Acrobatics or Athletics Proficiency
Benefit: If you are prone, but not Grappled, Incapacitated, Restrained, nor Unconscious, and not Wearing Armor nor Wielding a Shield, you can stand up from prone by spending 5 feet of movement.
Requirements: Unarmored Defense
Benefit: when you are utilizing Unarmored Defense, you gain a +2 bonus to your AC.
Requirements: Martial Discipline
Benefit: When an opponent applies the Grappled condition to you, and you are not wearing armor nor wielding a shield, you may use your Reaction to grapple them. If you succeed, they are Grappled and you are not.
Requirements: Deflect Attacks
Benefit: When a creature enters the reach of your unarmed strikes, you may use your reaction to attack them with an unarmed strike.
Requirements: Redirect Attacks
Benefit: If you are attacked with a melee weapon, instead of redirecting the damage to another creature, you may instead cause the weapon that was used to attack you to take the damage.
Requirements: Discipline Points, Redirect Attacks
Benefit: the same as the Rogue Cunning Attack ability of the same name.
Costs 1 Discipline Point
Requirements: Discipline Points, Redirect Attacks
Benefit: the same as the Rogue Cunning Attack ability of the same name.
Costs 1 Discipline Point
Requirements: Energetic Strikes
Benefit: Once per turn, when you hit a creature with an unarmed strike attack roll, you can spend 2 Discipline Points and add an extra roll of your martial arts die to the damage. The damage type can be any of the types your unarmed strikes are capable of inflicting, but does not otherwise need to be the same type of damage as the strike that invoked this feature.
Requirements: Deft Martial Strike, 11th Level
Benefit: As a Bonus Action, you can expect 1-3 Discipline Points to enhance your Unarmed Strikes or Simple Weapons, granting them a bonus to attack and damage rolls equal to the number of Discipline Points spent. The bonus lasts for 1 minute, or until you use this feature again. This cannot be applied to weapons that already have a magical bonus to attack and/or damage rolls.
Requirements: 6th Level
Benefit: Every round in which you have a creature Grappled, one of the creatures Grappled by you must make a CON stave against becoming unconscious.
Requirements: 6th Level
Benefit: When you have a creature Grappled by you, they can't make attacks against any target other than you, and they have disadvantage on attack rolls against you.
Requirements: 6th Level
Benefit: At the start of your turn you may roll one martial arts die to deal that much damage to one creature Grappled by you.
Requirements: Stunning Strike
Benefit: When you are Grappled, and not wearing armor nor wielding a shield, you can also set speed of the opponent(s) that has you grappled to 0 even if they aren't grappled.
Requirements: Slow Fall, Unarmored Defense
Benefit: You are not at disadvantage due to being Prone, nor do creatures get Advantage to attack rolls made against you.
Requirements: Stunning Strike, Discipline Points
Benefit: Like Stunning Strike, except that it costs 2 Discipline Points, and imposes the Paralyzed condition for a number of turns equal to half of one roll of your martial arts die.
Requirements: Stunning Strike, Discipline Points
Benefit: When you miss with an attack roll, you can spend 1 to 3 Discipline Points to increase your attack roll by twice the mount of Discipline Points, potentially turning the miss into a hit.
Requirements: 11th Level, Focused Aim
Benefit: When you use Focused Aim, and spend 2 extra Discipline Points above the cost of Focused Aim, you are modifying the attack roll die result itself, potentially turning a hit or miss into a natural 20, and therefore a critical hit.
Requirements: Self Restoration, Body Development
Benefit: Whenever you finish a Long Rest or Short Rest, you can choose to have a number of temporary hit points equal to your Level * Constitution Modifier.
Requirements: Discipline Points
Benefit: You learn the Mage Hand cantrip and can cast it without needing to use any components.
Requirements: Discipline Points
Benefit: You learn the Mind Sliver cantrip and can cast it without needing to use any components.
Requirements: Discipline Points
Benefit: You learn the Message cantrip and can cast it without needing to use any components (including the initial gesture of pointing at the target).
Requirements: 4th Level, Discipline Points
Benefit: You learn the Cure Wounds spell, and can spend 2 Discipline Points to cast it on yourself without needing to spend a spell slot, and without needing to use any components. For each extra Discipline Point spent, past the initial 2, you increase the effective level of the spell slot used to cast Cure Wounds. If you have spell slots, you may also use spell slots instead of Discipline Points to cast this spell.
Requirements: 4th Level, Discipline Points
Benefit: You learn the Healing Word spell, and can spend 2 Discipline Points to cast it on yourself without needing to spend a spell slot, and without needing to use any components. For each extra Discipline Point spent, past the initial 2, you increase the effective level of the spell slot used to cast Cure Wounds. If you have spell slots, you may also use spell slots instead of Discipline Points to cast this spell.
Requirements: Step of the Wind, Discipline Points
Benefit: You learn the Jump spell, and can spend 2 Discipline Points to cast it on yourself without needing to spend a spell slot, and without needing to use any components. If you have spell slots, you may also use spell slots instead of Discipline Points to cast this spell.
Requirements: Slow Fall, At least 3 Discipline Points
Benefit: You learn the Levitate spell, and can spend 3 Discipline Points to cast it on yourself without needing to spend a spell slot, and without needing to use any components. If you have spell slots, you may also use spell slots instead of Discipline Points to cast this spell.
Requirements: 5th Level, at least 3 Discipline Points
Benefit: You learn the Detect Thoughts spell, and can spend 3 Discipline Points to cast it without needing to spend a spell slot, and without needing to use any components. If you have spell slots, you may also use spell slots instead of Discipline Points to cast this spell.
Requirements: 7th Level, at least 5 Discipline Points
Benefit: you learn the Freedom of Movement spell, and can spend 5 Discipline Points to cast it on yourself without needing to spend a spell slot, and without needing to use any components. If you have spell slots, you may also use spell slots instead of Discipline Points to cast this spell.
Requirements: 9th Level, at least 6 Discipline Points
Benefit: You learn the Telekinesis spell, and can spend 6 Discipline Points to cast it without needing to spend a spell slot, and without needing to use any components. If you have spell slots, you may also use spell slots instead of Discipline Points to cast this spell.
Requirements: 9th Level, at least 3 Discipline Points
Benefit: You learn the Invisibility spell, and can spend 3 Discipline Points to cast it on yourself without needing to spend a spell slot, and without needing to use any components. If you have spell slots, you may also use spell slots instead of Discipline Points to cast this spell.
Requirements: 13th Level, Empty Body, at least 8 Discipline Points
Benefit: You learn the Etherealness spell, and can spend 8 Discipline Points to cast it on yourself without needing to spend a spell slot, and without needing to use any components. If you have spell slots, you may also use spell slots instead of Discipline Points to cast this spell.
Requirements: 17th Level, Empty Body, at least 10 Discipline Points
Benefit: You learn the Astral Projection spell, and can spend 10 Discipline Points to cast it on yourself without needing to spend a spell slot, and without needing to use any components. If you have spell slots, you may also use spell slots instead of Discipline Points to cast this spell.
I moved Weapon Mastery to the "Warrior of Weapons" (rename for the Kensei) subclass:
Why bother making a Feat that only one class can take? (in OneD&D, Fighting Styles are Feats)
Adding that bullet item was mainly about fixing a hole in the latest OneD&D document that excludes the Monk from taking Fighting Styles.
And since Feats were mentioned, here's the Feats that go with that (and replace the Unarmed Fighting version of Fighting Style -- slowing down the progression of unarmed damage with that style so that it's not better than a Monk, and also making it Martial Arts Mastery based instead of a specific extra benefit):
Feat: Fighting Style: Unarmed
Requirements: Weapon Mastery feature and Fighting Style Feature
Benefit: You gain the following benefits:
(note: if you have this feat available, the 5e Fighting Style feat for Unarmed Fighting should not be brought forward from 5e)
Feat: Martial Arts Initiate
Requirements: None
Benefit: You gain the following benefits:
(note: if you have this feat available, the 5e Fighting Style feat for Unarmed Fighting should not be brought forward from 5e)
Feat: Martial Arts Adept
Requirements: Martial Arts Initiate or Fighting Style: Unarmed, 6th Level
Benefit: Your unarmed strikes deal damage equal to 1d6 + your Strength modifier. Further, you may select one Martial Arts Mastery, provided that you otherwise have all of the requirements for it. You may change any of your Martial Arts Masteries when you would gain a Feat.
(note: if you have this feat available, the 5e Fighting Style feat for Unarmed Fighting should not be brought forward from 5e)
Feat: Martial Arts Master
Requirements: Martial Arts Adept, 12th Level
Benefit: Your unarmed strikes deal damage equal to 1d8 + your Strength modifier. Further, you may select one Martial Arts Mastery, provided that you otherwise have all of the requirements for it. You may change any of your Martial Arts Masteries when you would gain a Feat.
(note: if you have this feat available, the 5e Fighting Style feat for Unarmed Fighting should not be brought forward from 5e)
Feat: Disciplined Warrior
Requirements: Any Martial Arts Mastery
Benefit: You have 2 Discipline Points (or two more if you already have Discipline Points). You regain these spent Discipline Points, if you have spent any of them, when you complete a Short Rest or Long Rest. You may also select one Martial Arts Mastery, provided that you have all of the requirements for it, and that it costs Discipline Points. You may change any of your Martial Arts Masteries when you would gain a Feat.
Feat: Martial Arts Student
Requirements: Any Martial Arts Mastery
Benefit: You may select two Martial Arts Masteries, provided that you otherwise have all of the requirements for them. You may change any of your Martial Arts Masteries when you would gain a Feat.
Sorry, what does this even mean? Of course it "costs those things in the situation where it's useful". Unless you are suggesting an alternative, you're not adding anything.
Making the ability Not cost a Reaction is part of how it becomes more frequently relevant b/c A) As it's currently written in XGE, if the DrunkM Monk has spent reaction, it can't use this ability, and B) Monster multi-attack makes the XGE DrunkM ability pretty weak since you only ever get 1 Reaction per round of combat. If you get rid of the Reaction cost, that opens the ability up to be used more than once per round and frees up the Reaction for other potential Reactions.
All you're doing is ripping apart classes into a million feats so people can build-a-bear their character, which is just not what 5e D&D is about.
Monk should just get proficiency in Martial weapons, and be restricted to weapons lacking the two-handed property. To incentivize using Unarmed Strikes not just weapons, they should get free choice of any weapon mastery for their unarmed strikes.
To support STR-based unarmed fighters just add:
Feat: Brawler
4th level feat
ASI: +1 STR/CON
Fighting Style: Unarmed Fighting
Rangers have more hit points. Ranger's d10 vs. Monk's d8. Also, a lot of people play Rangers with Sharpshooter+Crossbow expert.
Rogues don't need be on the front line to be effective. Sharpshooter + Crossbow Expert + Sneak Attack is already one of the top tier builds in the game. Most Monks completely sacrifice the ability to Flurry of Blows if they stay at range.
No. Every part of that hyperbolic statement is false. Especially since every part of that set of Feats is applying existing cross-class ability Feats from 5e for the exact same purpose of their existence in 5e, just to a different base class. Any beef you have about Feats that give a light dip of cross-classing without full-on Multi-classing is not a beef you have here, it's a beef you have with 5e itself and WOTC, so go argue it with the game designers who already built that in to the 2014 PHB, and expanded it again in later books. It's not my job to defend WOTCs official content that promotes cross-class abilities via Feats. Take that axe-grinding to them. I'm not going to waste my time on that ignorance.
No. Not even worth discussing, as it has already been covered: "Warrior of Weapons" (kensei) should get Martial Weapons (and in my proposal, they do). General Monks should not. You don't agree? Don't use my proposal. It wont be changing to suit you.
So, at first level, a Fighter can do better unarmed strikes damage than a Monk. No. Non-Starter. Not even worthy of debate.
And, at 4th level, anyone can do as much damage with unarmed strikes as a Monk. No. Non-Starter. Not even worthy of debate.
My Feat progress gives the same potential as the 5e Unarmed Fighting Style, but at no point would allow the feats to outpace a single classed Monk. It also makes the exact extra benefit of that original fighting style (the damage while grappling) instead be a flexible pick that allows the character to differentiate (a little) just what their Martial Art might be. The other two Feats in my set then allow anyone (including the Monk) to do what Feats like Martial Adept, Metamagic Adept, and Fighting Initiate do: allow any class to have a slight touch of "cross classing" without full on multi-classing ... and also allows the classes based on those Feats to add-on to their own repertoire (for example: Sorcerers can take Metemagic Adept and get 2 more options and 2 extra sorcery points). There is nothing controversial or class-ripping here, just re-applying similar concepts that already exist in the Feat library. Your hyperbolic objection that it is such a thing is completely without value or merit.
Not only is nothing about this new to 5e and how it works, none of it is particularly new to the Monk class, either, when you look back to past editions. Which I noted in one of those posts: there are things here that came from 1e Monks, 1e OA treatment of Monks and Martial Arts (which includes cross-class availability of Martial Arts abilities, as well as several of those Martial Arts Masteries being lifted nearly-directly from that set of abilities), and 3e Monks. And the Feats are direct re-applications of existing 5e Feats.
Rangers and Rogues also have more options wrt to magical bonuses to their AC. They don't "make do with 12+ DexMod". They get magical studded leather. In addition: Rangers can get magical medium armors (breast plate not having a stealth disadvantage), and use magical shields. A Ranger can also get Medium Armor Master feat to increase the DEX Mod cap on their breast plate. So where the Monk can _theoretically_ top out at an AC of 20 if they get BOTH their DEX and WIS to 20 each ... the Ranger doesn't have to max out either of those attributes (they can, and it would help them, just not with their AC), and can get to an AC of 20 with just a 16 DEX, +1 Breastplate, Medium Armor Master, and a normal shield. The Monk has to go to peak optimization to get there, the Ranger doesn't. The Ranger only needs an easily achievable 1st level DEX, one tier-1 magic item, and one Feat.
I'm not saying this needs to be fixed, I'm saying that the phrase "Monk AC is on par with other DEX-based classes" is just not accurate.
Uh, for the exact same reason that they make unique spells that only one particular spell-casting class can use? To differentiate the class from the other "warrior" classes in style and flavour.
I fully understand that Fighting Styles are feats - it's right there on level 1 of the Fighter's re-design from the last UA so that they can get their Fighting Style in addition to the feat every character gets to choose with their background at level 1 (unless I've missed an update where they've gotten rid of the lvl 1 feats!).
If you have to make dishonest arguments to make your point, then you don't have a point.
The baseline assumption is they're on near-equal footing in terms of AC. And the 2014 feats come with an explicit warning about making characters more powerful than they otherwise would be. The unstated, yet still implied, addendum is these feats can exacerbate the differences between classes. Your example gives rangers and rogues upwards of three feats and magic items without extending any consideration to the monk. So, what magic items might you give the monk to cover some of those shortfalls?
I've played two monks, and I've had the pleasure of seeing six others played. None of us ever complained or thought they weren't pulling their own weight. Monks can and do keep up. Anyone who tells you differently is selling something.
Right, but none of the Fighting Style feats are limited to a single class. It's not like the class-specific spells at all.
They're all limited to fighters at 1st-level. The prerequisite is now possessing the Fighting Style feature. Only the fighter starts the game with one, and the only way to acquire one later is via the 4th-level feat and have the feature from a class or subclass which already grants one.
Which means barbarians and monks, previously part of the now defunct warrior group, cannot choose them on their own. Ever.
Which is, like everything else, only true until it happens. Given that the only base classes I can see with the Fighting Style feature at the moment are the Fighter, Paladin and Ranger, who's to say that they won't be given class-specific Fighting Styles in the next update?
That applies more to your reply than mine.
One Feat and one Magic Item, or two Magic Items (which is entirely reasonable given Tier-2 parameters) not Three:
All easily achievable by the Ranger between levels 5-10, using a completely common benchmark (AL Tiers).
Meanwhile, for the Monk to get that same AC, the Monk needs to max out BOTH Dex and Wis to 20. Using Standard Array, you're going to need 4 complete ASI's to get there (assuming your attribute bonuses went to Dex and Wis, and you picked your two highest values for Dex and Wis -- both reasonable assumptions). You're not going to get there before 12th level.
So, setting aside a ring or cloak of protection (which both the Ranger and Monk could have picked, so no advantage to either build) a Ranger can easily get there as soon as 5th level, a Monk can't get there before 12th level, and probably wont get there before 16th level.
Does the Monk also get up to 3 uncommon magic items? Sure. But the point is (and I said with "Rangers and Rogues also have more options"): they can't use magic armor nor magic shields to get there. That's not me being dishonest, that's you lacking basic reading comprehension. Can the Monk get there sooner with a +1 ring of protection and a +1 cloak of protection? All that does is mean that the Monk needs 18/18 or 20/16 (or 16/20) stat values in Dex and Wis instead of 20/20. Which still means burning several ASI/Feats where the Ranger only needs to burn one ASI/Feat.
And that, if you still haven't caught on, is the point: None of this requires more than one ASI/Feat from the Ranger, and if you have a bug up your posterior about Feats, they can do it with ZERO ASI/Feats and just use their Tier-2 magic item(s). Even WITH those magic items, the Monk still needs to burn multiple ASIs to get there, and each of those ASIs is a 4 level delay compared to the Ranger getting to AC 20.
I've played multiple monks. It's one of my favorite classes.
The general statement that they can "keep up" isn't in question. So your indignation in this last quote is completely irrelevant to the actual contention. No need to be an over-zealous fanboy, grasshopper. Especially not when it clouds basic good analysis and reading comprehension.
The question was about whether or not their AC specifically keeps up with the Ranger and Rogue. It doesn't, specifically because the Ranger and Rogue have more AC options than the Monk has. Ones that not only give them a bonus, but also give them a higher base.
None of them are limited to the Fighter at 1st level. None of them are level limited at all. They're only limited to having a class that has the Fighting Style feature (as of playtest document 6). Guess what everyone gets at 1st level? A Feat from their background. RAW, a Paladin and Ranger can customize their Background (and if they're Human use their 1st Level Human Feat) to pick Fighting Style Feat(s), giving them 1 or 2 Fighting Styles at 1st level, and one more when their Class gives them one at 2nd level. ... because as of playtest document 6, they have the Fighting Style feature.
But EVEN IF you decide that their class(es) have to already have awarded the Fighting Style in order to use a Feat to get one ... that doesn't change what I said: the Feat itself is not limited to a single class (Rangers and Paladins qualify for them). My statement isn't bound by 1st level. And those spells you're comparing them to don't somehow become available to more classes as you go up in level: they are always (not just at 1st level) restricted to that class.
There is no way in which Fighting Style is comparable to class-specific spells.
Who's to say that WOTC wont give us all a free ice cream at Ben and Jerry's on the next update?
Who's to say that WIOTC wont cancel OneD&D entirely and stick with the current state of 5e?
Who's to say that an extinction level event wont happen before the next update?
Basing your argument, about the current state of the OneD&D rules, on things that "may happen in the future" is not really a solid foundation, especially when it has no basis in existing trends of the updates.
False. You don't have a class feature until you have the appropriate levels in your class to receive the feature. The only class which can choose a Fighting Style feat at 1st-level, whether through a Background or the free feat for being a human, is the fighter.
As of this playtest, the only other classes which can choose such a feat are paladins and rangers. And they can only do so from 4th-level on. And there are a few subclasses, such as the College of Swords, which grant a fighting style. Absent that feature, nobody else can learn them; regardless of level.
I don't know why you want to make this a discussion on class-specific spells. I wasn't contesting that assertion. Rather, I clarified some obvious misrepresentation on your part.
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I also think it's rich for you to insult my reading comprehension over something you never bothered to type out in the first place. You know, the thing I criticized you for in the other post you responded to.
I'll continue to stand by my earlier words, Johnny. Every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
The core AC advantage that rogues have is that basic magic armor doesn't require attunement. A 14 wisdom monk with no magic items has the same AC as a rogue in studded leather. That same monk with bracers of defense (rare) has better AC than a rogue with +1 studded leather armor (rare). The rogue only actually pulls ahead when he either gets legendary armor or attunement slots become a meaningful resource problem -- both of which probably don't happen before tier 3, by which time the monk can probably arrange to boost wisdom.
However, what this calculation leaves out is... melee rogues are highly prone to getting mauled, which is why an awful lot of rogues spend lots of time being archers. Monks aren't completely useless as archers, they're generally better off than any strength-based build, but they're a lot worse at it than a ranger or rogue. Melee-focused classes should really either have additional survival advantages, or have an explicit hit and run ability (e.g. fancy footwork on the duelist) that they can use without significant damage penalties. Step of the Wind, because it costs discipline points and a bonus action, does not qualify.
Way of Shadow monks (via Darkness on a carried object) or Elements monks (via the reach from Elemental Attunement) do have adequate hit and run capabilities. Open Hand used to have that ability... until they added a save to Addle. If it was too powerful, just change it from "it can’t take Reactions until the end of your next turn" to "it can’t take Reactions until the end of your current turn" and remove the save.
The pre-req doesn't say "You must already have a Fighting Style". The previous requirement was based on being a class. The current wording isn't clearly stating if its still being a class (just one that happens to grant a Fighting Style, as opposed to being one in the Warrior group) or already having something in your actual build.
As I pointed out, "At 1st level" is not relevant to the discussion. This isn't about 1st level restriction. It's about whether or not there are currently (as of the 6th playtest document for OneD&D) any class specific Fighting Styles. There aren't.
Thank you for admitting that multiple classes get the feature. And since none of the Feats mention a requirement of a specific class, what I said is true: None of the Fighting Styles are class specific. There isn't a precedent for "making an unarmed fighting style feat that is restricted to the monk". That's the discussion.
That's the point of the argument: There aren't ANY Figthing Styles that are restricted to a single class. I said that. The counter was that it's like class specific spells -- I didn't bring that into the conversation (Dex86 did), it was used a bogus counter to my statement. And my counter argument to that is that it is not even remotely like class restricted spells exactly because there are no Fighting Styles that are unique to a single class: all of them are available to multiple classes.
It's also rich for you to get indignant about insults when you brought them to the conversation in the first place. If you can't take the heat, don't step into the fire.
Further: "Never bothered to say" is exactly a reading comprehension problem on your part because it is directly implied in what I actually initially said. The reason Monks don't keep up with Rogues and Rangers is that they don't have the same breadth of options. I said that up front, and those options are specifically about Rangers and Rogues having a better selection of magic items that increase AC. That fact that your reading comprehension isn't capable of leaping from A to B isn't me being dishonest nor is it "something I didn't initially say" -- it's you not being able to fill in basic logic, reading, and knowledge steps.
I have no doubt that you'll triple down on ignorance and poor reading comprehension.