It's almost the same as having a Fighter in game, with all his Extra attacks. It's just, the Monk is doing it during someone else's turn. Which isn't a lot since they still only get one Reaction.
The Monks can combo with their bonus attack during their turn.
Monks being able to combo outside their turn as a reaction? Spanking new shiny thing that might just give them a better identity as a martial, rather than spending ki-points instead of spellslots.
Change to Missile Deflection at cost of reflecting the attack
At a cost of one Discipline point a monk can deflect attack (Melee/Ranged) only vs one opponent to protect against opponents with multiple attacks. This feature will not be usable against another opponent that uses multi attack on the monk.
The two handed weapon I wish they had allowed the monk to use Dex on is the staff, to my mind there is no more iconic “monk” weapon than the staff (Bo/quarter) unless they recreate the 3 section staff - especially as a “hidden” weapon.
They already can use their Dex with a Quarterstaff. There is exactly ONE weapon that is restricted by that line in the OneD&D rules: the greatclub. It is the only Simple melee weapon that is Two Handed (neither the Staff nor Spear are "Two Handed", they're "Versatile").
Radical concept: why not completely remove Wisdom requirements from monks? Just give them an AC of, say, 12 + level/6 + Dex Modifier (equivalent to studded leather with a magic bonus of level/6), and base the save DC of their abilities on Dex.
I wish they'd just give Monks Deflect Attack, even in melee.
Absolutely agree. The full benefit of that feature would be like counter-punches, but also Aikido style "riposte" maneuvers, where you use the momentum of the attacker against them.
1) You can use Deflect against Melee Attack.
2) If you reduce a Melee attack's damage to 0, you can EITHER deal damage to the attacker OR initiate a Grapple or Push.
If nothing else, that could become a Feat:
Martial Riposte. Maybe something like a Sword Bard defensive flourish, that uses your reaction vs a melee attack to boost your AC against that attack by the roll of a martial arts die, and if the attack misses you can then make an unarmed strike against the attacker (and you can pick Damage, Grapple, or Shove).
It's almost the same as having a Fighter in game, with all his Extra attacks. It's just, the Monk is doing it during someone else's turn. Which isn't a lot since they still only get one Reaction.
The Monks can combo with their bonus attack during their turn.
Monks being able to combo outside their turn as a reaction? Spanking new shiny thing that might just give them a better identity as a martial, rather than spending ki-points instead of spellslots.
In my experience out of turn actions take far longer than just one more attack from the fighter.
The two handed weapon I wish they had allowed the monk to use Dex on is the staff, to my mind there is no more iconic “monk” weapon than the staff (Bo/quarter) unless they recreate the 3 section staff - especially as a “hidden” weapon.
I’m not sure I understand. They already can since it is versatile
Deflect (or redirect) melee attack. Cost 1 Discipline Point to make an additional reaction to reduce damage from an attack. On a roll of one cannot make another deflection till start of next turn.
The cost of a resource (Discipline Points) represents the monk pushing himself beyond the normal one reaction.
The two handed weapon I wish they had allowed the monk to use Dex on is the staff, to my mind there is no more iconic “monk” weapon than the staff (Bo/quarter) unless they recreate the 3 section staff - especially as a “hidden” weapon.
Bonus Unarmed Strike. When you use the Attack action with an Unarmed Strike or a Simple Weapon on your turn, you can make one Unarmed Strike as a Bonus Action on the same turn.
Dexterous Attacks. You can use Dexterity instead of Strength for the attack and damage rolls of your Unarmed Strikes and Simple Weapons, except those that have the TwoHanded property.
So you can do that.
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"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
At Level 2, a Monk has a lot of options for their BA. To free up the BA, give
In Tier 1, a Monk has insufficient Discipline Points. A big fight that lasts 5 rounds will cause the Monk to run out of resources halfway through the fight. I feel the Shadow Monk and Elemental Monk have the right idea of "Spend 1 Point to have [EFFECT] for 10 Minutes". Base Monk could have the following at Level 2. Flurry of Blows: Spend 1 Point to be able to make an Unarmed Strike as a Bonus Action for the next 10 Minutes. Patient Defense: Spend 1 Point to be able to Dodge as a Bonus Action for the next 10 minutes. Step of the Wind: Spend 1 Point to be able to Disengage and Dash as a Bonus Action for the next 10 minutes. The total number of Points and Short Rest recovery would need to be adjusted. Some subclass features would need to be rewritten.
Even just a one minute duration would be plenty for these ideas.
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"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
What if they made Flurry of Blows 1 Ki to add one attack to the Attack action. The. You can choose to use your BA to make another unarmed strike or Step of the Wind or whatever you like.
Would be actually useful in certain circumstances. Downside being using another Disc to get something useful from your BA.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
What if they made Flurry of Blows 1 Ki to add one attack to the Attack action. The. You can choose to use your BA to make another unarmed strike or Step of the Wind or whatever you like.
Personally I'm now leaning towards a different direction; specifically remove Ki/Discipline cost for the basic abilities entirely, so that they only require a bonus action, like:
Flurry of Blows. When you take the Attack on your turn you may use your bonus action to make one additional unarmed strike, and all unarmed strikes you make in the same turn deal additional damage equal to your Monk level divided by 8 (rounded up). You may spend 1 Discipline to make two additional unarmed strikes instead of 1.
Patient Defence. You may use your bonus action to increase your AC by your Monk level divided by 8 (rounded up) until your next turn. You may spend 1 Discipline to increase the bonus to 1 + your Monk level divided by 4 (rounded up).
Step of the Wind. You may Dash or [action]Disengage[/aciton] as a bonus action, and your jump distance is tripled until the end of the turn. You must spend 1 Discipline to Dash a second or third time during your turn. You may spend 1 Discipline to Dash and Disengage as a single bonus action.
Basically the idea is that the monk has a choice of "free" bonus actions every round as a baseline, a bit weaker than the current resource cost options, but each can be boosted by spending Discipline. In this case you'd probably end up with less Discipline points, or it might even become a long rest resource instead, since it would only be required for special abilities and pushing yourself beyond normal limits.
Somewhere later on, maybe around 11th- or 13th-level I could see the Monk gaining the ability to spend 1 Discipline to take a second, different, bonus action, with the different restriction lifted by their capstone at 18th-/20th-level. This would let them use Flurry + Patient Defence in a single round, or even later Flurry + Flurry.
I'd also see this being combined with a more flexible replacement to Stunning Strike as another core feature, so you'd have a wide mix of bonus actions to choose from, with and without Discipline costs. This would really lean into Monk being kind of like a martial equivalent to a caster, with lots of flexibility, a "free" baseline (like cantrips) plus stronger options using a limited resource.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
What if they made Flurry of Blows 1 Ki to add one attack to the Attack action. The. You can choose to use your BA to make another unarmed strike or Step of the Wind or whatever you like.
Personally I'm now leaning towards a different direction; specifically remove Ki/Discipline cost for the basic abilities entirely, so that they only require a bonus action, like:
Flurry of Blows. When you take the Attack on your turn you may use your bonus action to make one additional unarmed strike, and all unarmed strikes you make in the same turn deal additional damage equal to your Monk level divided by 8 (rounded up). You may spend 1 Discipline to make two additional unarmed strikes instead of 1.
Patient Defence. You may use your bonus action to increase your AC by your Monk level divided by 8 (rounded up) until your next turn. You may spend 1 Discipline to increase the bonus to 1 + your Monk level divided by 4 (rounded up).
Step of the Wind. You may Dash or [action]Disengage[/aciton] as a bonus action, and your jump distance is tripled until the end of the turn. You must spend 1 Discipline to Dash a second or third time during your turn. You may spend 1 Discipline to Dash and Disengage as a single bonus action.
Basically the idea is that the monk has a choice of "free" bonus actions every round as a baseline, a bit weaker than the current resource cost options, but each can be boosted by spending Discipline. In this case you'd probably end up with less Discipline points, or it might even become a long rest resource instead, since it would only be required for special abilities and pushing yourself beyond normal limits.
Somewhere later on, maybe around 11th- or 13th-level I could see the Monk gaining the ability to spend 1 Discipline to take a second, different, bonus action, with the different restriction lifted by their capstone at 18th-/20th-level. This would let them use Flurry + Patient Defence in a single round, or even later Flurry + Flurry.
I'd also see this being combined with a more flexible replacement to Stunning Strike as another core feature, so you'd have a wide mix of bonus actions to choose from, with and without Discipline costs. This would really lean into Monk being kind of like a martial equivalent to a caster, with lots of flexibility, a "free" baseline (like cantrips) plus stronger options using a limited resource.
I’d want to add a line in like “while not wearing armor” otherwise this could be a crazy good 1-level dip for fighters and paladins who usually don’t have a lot to do with their BA. Even then, it would be great for a barbarian. Really, most classes would love it.
I’d want to add a line in like “while not wearing armor” otherwise this could be a crazy good 1-level dip for fighters and paladins who usually don’t have a lot to do with their BA. Even then, it would be great for a barbarian. Really, most classes would love it.
Sure, that should probably be the case for Martial Arts in general anyway, but this would still be part of the 2nd-level Martial Discipline feature so it'd be a two-level dip minimum, except for the bonus action attack. Not sure what the best way to format that would be, maybe just rename the Bonus Unarmed Strike to "Flurry of Blows" but have it upgrade at 2nd with the Discipline point option?
There are probably a few features of Monk that should really be tweaked to say something like "While using your Martial Arts" or similar to mean "while unarmored and holding no shield".
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
With weapon mastery, a one- or two-level dip in monk can already be quite nice for a barbarian. Picture a barb wielding a short sword and a dagger. Using the dagger nick property as part of the attack action qualifies for then doing BA unarmed strike, which now gets 1d6 and the rage damage. Later can even take dual wielder to upgrade the sword to a warhammer, using the flex feature to get 1d10 damage.
And for a more fantasy scenario, on the classic movie The Young Master (Jackie Chan, 1980) the police was able to use swords (looks like scimitar type) for helping to set order. So the own set in which is based the fantasy MA shows that MA users uses weapons and even martial weapons...
wait, what about the police in that movie makes the designation "martial arts users" a better fit than "fighters"? aren't guards and soldiers (and police!) usually trained? what characteristics of these warriors lead to this MA assumption? maybe you want to rethink?
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So my thoughts are make step the wind and patient defence a 1 minute duration. Leave Flurry as it is, allowing the defensive ones to get more significant bonus. The downside I see to this is people expecting to spend the first two rounds stacking their buffs, a possible fix for this would be that only Step of the Wind OR Patient Defense can be active at one time. Think of it like concentration, for abilities.
For the other direction where there is a base version and an upgraded version we again leave flurry of blows mostly alone, since monks essentially have a basic version available with their unarmed strike bonus attack when attacking with a bonus action. It's activated would give the additional attacks as part of the attack action leaving the BA available. Patient defense base version for a bonus action is the next attack against them is at disadvantage (only the next attack). The activated version is all attack rolls against them until their next turn are at disadvantage (no real change there). Step of the Winds base version would be Dash as a Bonus action,, or both dash and disengage like the current iteration for the activated version.
These to me feel like they wouldn't be wildly overpowered while giving just a small bump up to defensive versatility. While also trying to keep it from being overly complicated to implement.
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
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It's almost the same as having a Fighter in game, with all his Extra attacks. It's just, the Monk is doing it during someone else's turn. Which isn't a lot since they still only get one Reaction.
The Monks can combo with their bonus attack during their turn.
Monks being able to combo outside their turn as a reaction? Spanking new shiny thing that might just give them a better identity as a martial, rather than spending ki-points instead of spellslots.
Change to Missile Deflection at cost of reflecting the attack
At a cost of one Discipline point a monk can deflect attack (Melee/Ranged) only vs one opponent to protect against opponents with multiple attacks. This feature will not be usable against another opponent that uses multi attack on the monk.
Are you trying to say that the Chinese police are all Shaolin-ish Monks? I wouldn't assert that they're Monks at all.
Not every Martial Arts themed character has to be a Monk, either. There's a Fighting Style, and at least one other Feat, for that.
They already can use their Dex with a Quarterstaff. There is exactly ONE weapon that is restricted by that line in the OneD&D rules: the greatclub. It is the only Simple melee weapon that is Two Handed (neither the Staff nor Spear are "Two Handed", they're "Versatile").
Radical concept: why not completely remove Wisdom requirements from monks? Just give them an AC of, say, 12 + level/6 + Dex Modifier (equivalent to studded leather with a magic bonus of level/6), and base the save DC of their abilities on Dex.
Absolutely agree. The full benefit of that feature would be like counter-punches, but also Aikido style "riposte" maneuvers, where you use the momentum of the attacker against them.
1) You can use Deflect against Melee Attack.
2) If you reduce a Melee attack's damage to 0, you can EITHER deal damage to the attacker OR initiate a Grapple or Push.
If nothing else, that could become a Feat:
Martial Riposte. Maybe something like a Sword Bard defensive flourish, that uses your reaction vs a melee attack to boost your AC against that attack by the roll of a martial arts die, and if the attack misses you can then make an unarmed strike against the attacker (and you can pick Damage, Grapple, or Shove).
In my experience out of turn actions take far longer than just one more attack from the fighter.
I’m not sure I understand. They already can since it is versatile
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
Deflect (or redirect) melee attack. Cost 1 Discipline Point to make an additional reaction to reduce damage from an attack. On a roll of one cannot make another deflection till start of next turn.
The cost of a resource (Discipline Points) represents the monk pushing himself beyond the normal one reaction.
Bonus Unarmed Strike. When you use the Attack action with an Unarmed Strike or a Simple Weapon on your turn, you can make one Unarmed Strike as a Bonus Action on the same turn.
Dexterous Attacks. You can use Dexterity instead of Strength for the attack and damage rolls of your Unarmed Strikes and Simple Weapons, except those that have the TwoHanded property.
So you can do that.
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
Even just a one minute duration would be plenty for these ideas.
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
What if they made Flurry of Blows 1 Ki to add one attack to the Attack action. The. You can choose to use your BA to make another unarmed strike or Step of the Wind or whatever you like.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
Would be actually useful in certain circumstances. Downside being using another Disc to get something useful from your BA.
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
Personally I'm now leaning towards a different direction; specifically remove Ki/Discipline cost for the basic abilities entirely, so that they only require a bonus action, like:
Basically the idea is that the monk has a choice of "free" bonus actions every round as a baseline, a bit weaker than the current resource cost options, but each can be boosted by spending Discipline. In this case you'd probably end up with less Discipline points, or it might even become a long rest resource instead, since it would only be required for special abilities and pushing yourself beyond normal limits.
Somewhere later on, maybe around 11th- or 13th-level I could see the Monk gaining the ability to spend 1 Discipline to take a second, different, bonus action, with the different restriction lifted by their capstone at 18th-/20th-level. This would let them use Flurry + Patient Defence in a single round, or even later Flurry + Flurry.
I'd also see this being combined with a more flexible replacement to Stunning Strike as another core feature, so you'd have a wide mix of bonus actions to choose from, with and without Discipline costs. This would really lean into Monk being kind of like a martial equivalent to a caster, with lots of flexibility, a "free" baseline (like cantrips) plus stronger options using a limited resource.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
I’d want to add a line in like “while not wearing armor” otherwise this could be a crazy good 1-level dip for fighters and paladins who usually don’t have a lot to do with their BA. Even then, it would be great for a barbarian. Really, most classes would love it.
Sure, that should probably be the case for Martial Arts in general anyway, but this would still be part of the 2nd-level Martial Discipline feature so it'd be a two-level dip minimum, except for the bonus action attack. Not sure what the best way to format that would be, maybe just rename the Bonus Unarmed Strike to "Flurry of Blows" but have it upgrade at 2nd with the Discipline point option?
There are probably a few features of Monk that should really be tweaked to say something like "While using your Martial Arts" or similar to mean "while unarmored and holding no shield".
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
With weapon mastery, a one- or two-level dip in monk can already be quite nice for a barbarian. Picture a barb wielding a short sword and a dagger. Using the dagger nick property as part of the attack action qualifies for then doing BA unarmed strike, which now gets 1d6 and the rage damage. Later can even take dual wielder to upgrade the sword to a warhammer, using the flex feature to get 1d10 damage.
That’s a difficult multiclass. Str, Dex, Wis 13 and you will always want Con.
wait, what about the police in that movie makes the designation "martial arts users" a better fit than "fighters"? aren't guards and soldiers (and police!) usually trained? what characteristics of these warriors lead to this MA assumption? maybe you want to rethink?
unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
tell them you don't like features disappeared quietly in the night: provide feedback!
So my thoughts are make step the wind and patient defence a 1 minute duration. Leave Flurry as it is, allowing the defensive ones to get more significant bonus. The downside I see to this is people expecting to spend the first two rounds stacking their buffs, a possible fix for this would be that only Step of the Wind OR Patient Defense can be active at one time. Think of it like concentration, for abilities.
For the other direction where there is a base version and an upgraded version we again leave flurry of blows mostly alone, since monks essentially have a basic version available with their unarmed strike bonus attack when attacking with a bonus action. It's activated would give the additional attacks as part of the attack action leaving the BA available. Patient defense base version for a bonus action is the next attack against them is at disadvantage (only the next attack). The activated version is all attack rolls against them until their next turn are at disadvantage (no real change there). Step of the Winds base version would be Dash as a Bonus action,, or both dash and disengage like the current iteration for the activated version.
These to me feel like they wouldn't be wildly overpowered while giving just a small bump up to defensive versatility. While also trying to keep it from being overly complicated to implement.
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."