That's not entirely true, but they typically sacrifice ~20% damage to do so, while the monk sacrifices 50% which is just way too much.
I don't mind sacrificing damage, even a big chunk of damage, as long as I'm getting something comparable out of it; Patient Defense can be fantastic, but you're at the mercy of whether any enemies actually would have attacked you, if Patient Defense is what discourages them that's fine, but if your DM randomises targets you could end up spending the Ki to achieve nothing.
Step of the Wind is worth it if your alternative is being out of range and doing no damage at all; in that case you're not losing half, you're gaining half (of your potential maximum if you hadn't been out of range).
The problem is having it tied to a limited resource, because you're not getting extra when you spend it, you're just doing things Monks should be able to do.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
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I don't mind sacrificing damage, even a big chunk of damage, as long as I'm getting something comparable out of it; Patient Defense can be fantastic, but you're at the mercy of whether any enemies actually would have attacked you, if Patient Defense is what discourages them that's fine, but if your DM randomises targets you could end up spending the Ki to achieve nothing.
If your DM doesn't randomized targets its even worse; patient defense is basically screaming "ignore me and kill the actually dangerous targets".
I don't mind sacrificing damage, even a big chunk of damage, as long as I'm getting something comparable out of it; Patient Defense can be fantastic, but you're at the mercy of whether any enemies actually would have attacked you, if Patient Defense is what discourages them that's fine, but if your DM randomises targets you could end up spending the Ki to achieve nothing.
If your DM doesn't randomized targets its even worse; patient defense is basically screaming "ignore me and kill the actually dangerous targets".
I don’t get that. That’s significant metagaming on the DM’s part. Patient Defense doesn’t turn the monk blue to indicate they will be harder to hit. The monk isn’t doing the Daniel-San crane kick from The Karate Kid to win the tournament. There probably isn’t anything significant apparent to enemy for them to know the monk is hard to hit. Any misses would be considered just the normal part of the give and take of combat.
Dodge
When you take the Dodge action, you focus entirely on avoiding attacks. Until the start of your next turn, any attack roll made against you has disadvantage if you can see the attacker, and you make Dexterity saving throws with advantage. You lose this benefit if you are incapacitated or if your speed drops to 0.
Focusing on defense is like heightened awareness to incoming attacks not some visible shield protecting you.
As a dm I tend to meta-metagame (paragame?) Where I feel obligated to make sure at least some enemies attack someone if they went on defense just BECAUSE I know.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
I apply the same requirements to enemies than players, as they have the same knowledge about players than opposite, so make the corresponding lore rolls and etc. from both sides. If have no special reason to choose a target, it is done randomly. The Intelligence (or mind stuff) and attitude of the foes has its role here, it is not the same a group of orcs belligerent than led by an orc shaman smarter and more organized.
I don’t get that. That’s significant metagaming on the DM’s part. Patient Defense doesn’t turn the monk blue to indicate they will be harder to hit.
It is generally obvious that a character is dodging, and nothing about the patient defense maneuver that says that it's unusually subtle, so yes, it does in fact make it obvious that the character is harder to hit.
Even for dumb monsters it doesn't work, because my usual logic for dumb monsters is "attack whoever hurt it the most", and, well, that's probably not the monk because of the aforementioned large reduction in damage.
I don’t get that. That’s significant metagaming on the DM’s part. Patient Defense doesn’t turn the monk blue to indicate they will be harder to hit.
It is generally obvious that a character is dodging, and nothing about the patient defense maneuver that says that it's unusually subtle, so yes, it does in fact make it obvious that the character is harder to hit.
Even for dumb monsters it doesn't work, because my usual logic for dumb monsters is "attack whoever hurt it the most", and, well, that's probably not the monk because of the aforementioned large reduction in damage.
I would still disagree. The dodge action says they focus on defense. So in the normal flow of battle you are both keeping an eye out for defense as well as openings to make an attack. Focusing on defense doesn’t mean they are comically bobbing and weaving and ducking around their 5’square. Their attention is just on defense, ignoring potential openings for attack. All within the 6 second round everyone else is being defensive and offensive.
Though I have to agree with your second statement about dumb monsters and monks lack of damage
I would still disagree. The dodge action says they focus on defense. So in the normal flow of battle you are both keeping an eye out for defense as well as openings to make an attack. Focusing on defense doesn’t mean they are comically bobbing and weaving and ducking around their 5’square. Their attention is just on defense, ignoring potential openings for attack. All within the 6 second round everyone else is being defensive and offensive.
Personally I tend to think of the Dodge action as adopting some kind of stance, whether that's an exaggerated martial arts stance or just keeping your weapon(s) in a guard position, I figure there'd be some kind of cues for an intelligent enemy to spot at least, i.e- you're positioned to block, not to strike. But if you "going defensive" is what discourages an enemy from attacking you, then at least Patient Defense has still achieved something if your goal was to protect yourself.
Patient Defense is after all not really a tanking ability; it can be used to tank if you're confident enemies will still attack you rather than just try to ignore you, or if you (or an ally) have some other way to force them to. Easiest being you're simply in the way (blocking a doorway or such). But otherwise it has no actual mechanical way to compel enemies to attack you, and mechanically actually discourages them.
The problem I've encountered more often with Patient Defense is when you've used it but an enemy wasn't going to attack you anyway, usually because it has a goal you're unaware of. For example, say an enemy rushes and attacks you, you assume it's trying to kill you and Patient Defense, but actually it just wants to escape and on the next turn it disengages and tries to flee. Or maybe it's actual target is someone else, but you were the only target it could reach on that turn etc. A DM could fudge the behaviour to stay on you because you spent a limited resource to do it, but that means changing its behaviour to accommodate you, but part of the risk/reward of Patient Defense is that it can be wasted, but that doesn't make it less annoying that it can be when you're not just giving up a bonus action, you're giving up a bonus action, a Ki point and half of your potential damage.
Then there's the other case where the enemy does attack you and hits you anyway, so it was equally wasted; in my experience it's not because the enemy has +14 to its attack rolls, it's because the dang zombies choose that round to roll double natural 20's. 😡
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Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
dodge is what happens when someone isn't attacking, but also isn't distracted with another action. pets can do it without a handler's input. it's the simple act of being not-incapacitated. dodge is the "i pass" of battle actions. a disciplined monk choosing to 'focus on defense' just feels more defensive than some other warrior who just hasn't acted this round.
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unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
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It's not unusual in martial arts to dodge out of the way of an attack and counter attack at the same time. In my humble opinion having patient defense and a strong attack action from level 1-20 is something that would be right on theme for the monk. Not that it will ever happen though.....
It's not unusual in martial arts to dodge out of the way of an attack and counter attack at the same time. In my humble opinion having patient defense and a strong attack action from level 1-20 is something that would be right on theme for the monk. Not that it will ever happen though.....
That would be adding a reaction attack if you're using patient defense and get attacked. Which honestly seems fine, but doesn't do anything if you don't get attacked...
It's not unusual in martial arts to dodge out of the way of an attack and counter attack at the same time. In my humble opinion having patient defense and a strong attack action from level 1-20 is something that would be right on theme for the monk. Not that it will ever happen though.....
There’s already something in the game for that:
The Battle Master “Riposte” maneuver.
or:
Allowing the Deflect Missiles feature (including its counter attack option) to be used against melee attacks.
I just hope they properly bring the monk up before release . larian did a better job in bg3 with tavern brawler along with open hands extra damage you can actually do a reasonable amount, more then 5e monk can anyway . monk is still bad out of combat but
in bg3 they made it less so, by allowing monk options in the dialogue. knowing that you are M.A.D and would fail most rolls.
I read that the monk in BG3 is yes improved, but still remains the hardest class to build and compared to other classes it struggles. Defined as a class for a small circle of hardcore players.
It's a little more complex than others, but in terms of build the BG3 Monk has 3 major things going for it:
1: Most Martial Arts abilities are now disjointed from each other, so for example you no longer need to make a regular attack before your Flurry of Blows. This is huge if you want to make use of some of the special Flurry of Blows and other options.
2: Extra damage at key leveling points that offests the lack of martial weapons and the need to go MAD by incorporating Wisdom. Not only does this make the Dex/Wis/Con split easier to manage, it also means that a Monk looking to Skirmish is harder to trap in combat if it doesn't get perfect rolls because the damage was so low or a Stunning Strike didn't go off.
3: Giving Open Hand Monk a 2nd Bonus Action for a limited time means that they can briefly make full use of their mobility features without sacrificing DPS while managing Ki. Also, the changes to Jump mechanics means that so long as the player didn't start their turn in range of an enemy with an Opportunity Attack they can use Step of the Wind to completely bypass 2-3 minor enemies to get into the back lines like the whole skirmisher concept is built around.
I'll be honest about one other thing: Tavern Brawler absolutely leads to some broken builds if not managed. But with a bit of care I think that it could actually be molded into something very balanced especially for late-campaign encounters. And I have to say, it feels FANTASTIC to play a melee Monk that really leans into the "I AM the weapon" concept. At Tier 3 this would be a great ability to end on for combat upgrades and would make up for the 11th level crash where Monks fall drastically behind all other classes for damage output.
Well I only see the feature "Damage Rerolls" of Tavern Brawler to be good for monk, as an unarmed fighting style equal to the Great Weapon. The shove only allows to apply on the Attack Action, so cannot be applied to the BA attacks.
A solution could be allow to use the BA part of MA for free, not depending of anything.
Giving a second BA is something BG3 specific, and in real D&D I doubt we will have it as it can be very easy to head to breaking the system. Can use the Rogue with that multiple BA to kill an entire group alone just dashing and hidding. So much care with that.
Well I only see the feature "Damage Rerolls" of Tavern Brawler to be good for monk, as an unarmed fighting style equal to the Great Weapon. The shove only allows to apply on the Attack Action, so cannot be applied to the BA attacks.
A solution could be allow to use the BA part of MA for free, not depending of anything.
Giving a second BA is something BG3 specific, and in real D&D I doubt we will have it as it can be very easy to head to breaking the system. Can use the Rogue with that multiple BA to kill an entire group alone just dashing and hidding. So much care with that.
Sorry, referring to Baldur's Gate 3 Tavern Brawler feat. It's drastically reworked compared to PHB 2014. Now lets you add your Strength modifier TWICE to Attack and Damage rolls for Unarmed Strikes, Improvised Weapons, and Thrown Weapon attacks.
For Monk 2024, I'd change it to a class feature where you add your Wisdom modifier to your attack and damage rolls for Unarmed Strikes and Monk Weapons that use your Martial Arts die. The bonus on attack rolls is really impactful and makes a Monk one of the most consistent damage output options which gives it something that the Monk undisputably does better than other classes. It also boosts damage output in a consistent measurable way that also rewards the player with other useful side benefits (better AC, better save DC, better skills etc),
The only thing that is making it really busted in BG3 right now is that you can multiclass in such a way that you can do all of this while wearing heavy armor so players can go entirely SAD with Strength and only minor nods to Wisdom and Constitution for health and save reasons.
Well I only see the feature "Damage Rerolls" of Tavern Brawler to be good for monk, as an unarmed fighting style equal to the Great Weapon. The shove only allows to apply on the Attack Action, so cannot be applied to the BA attacks.
A solution could be allow to use the BA part of MA for free, not depending of anything.
Giving a second BA is something BG3 specific, and in real D&D I doubt we will have it as it can be very easy to head to breaking the system. Can use the Rogue with that multiple BA to kill an entire group alone just dashing and hidding. So much care with that.
Sorry, referring to Baldur's Gate 3 Tavern Brawler feat. It's drastically reworked compared to PHB 2014. Now lets you add your Strength modifier TWICE to Attack and Damage rolls for Unarmed Strikes, Improvised Weapons, and Thrown Weapon attacks.
For Monk 2024, I'd change it to a class feature where you add your Wisdom modifier to your attack and damage rolls for Unarmed Strikes and Monk Weapons that use your Martial Arts die. The bonus on attack rolls is really impactful and makes a Monk one of the most consistent damage output options which gives it something that the Monk undisputably does better than other classes. It also boosts damage output in a consistent measurable way that also rewards the player with other useful side benefits (better AC, better save DC, better skills etc),
The only thing that is making it really busted in BG3 right now is that you can multiclass in such a way that you can do all of this while wearing heavy armor so players can go entirely SAD with Strength and only minor nods to Wisdom and Constitution for health and save reasons.
Monks (rather, "Monks") in BG3 rely entirely on exploiting multiclassing and a feat that won't work with pure-classed Monks because of their focus on DEX rather than STR. The damage boosts Open Hand gets is about trying to balance the Monk against the increased loot curve of BG3 (with legendary items by Level 12) but not only does it not keep up with the loot that's rained upon you but only one Monk subclass gets that damage boost, meaning the others are even more subpar in damage output.
A pure-classed Monk in BG3 is extremely weak, because it was adjusted and balanced entirely around multiclassing—to the point where the only features that are inhibited by wearing armour in BG3, the Unarmoured Movement features, are actually nerfed pointlessly. A STR-focused Fighter who takes one level in Monk can do more damage with unarmed strikes than a pure-classed 12th-level Monk, and that should tell everyone about how much inspiration OneD&D should take from BG3.
Oh definitely. The problem is that both PHB and UA6 Monks don't even get that. This is why I think the BG3 Tavern Brawler change should be folded into the existing Monk class as a feature to add a different stat in place of doubling strength. It would actually work within the existing Monk class framework as a key starting position to rebalance around without making the Monk just Hexblade Paladin 2.0.
Replace Stunning Strike (currently nerfed to near-useless in UA6) with "also add Wis mod to attack and damage rolls" and give the OHM the option to change their damage type and roll an extra d4 as in the current BG3 subclass. These are mechanically simple solutions which don't wildly change the Monk archetype - it isn't suddenly desperate to don Full Plate armor, it isn't looking at the Great Weapon Master feat in jealousy. It gets a combat specialty - extremely consistent mid-range melee damage output with lots of attacks but can't take the beating the other Martial classes can. The Fighter gets heavy Armor and can switch between a variety of melee and ranged heavy weapons for big damage bursts. The Barbarian is recklessly charging into combat with a massive weapon and damage reduction due to rage. The Paladin can turn a good hit into a powerful Smite and the Ranger and Rogue set up the party for a devastating opening attack.
This would shore up the Monk's ability to contribute in combat beyond Stunning Strike into the Tier 3/4 range. It would also make staying with Monk a viable pathway with regularly scaling damage output and slowly building AC. A +3 bump to melee attack and damage rolls would be a little extreme for other classes expecting to stand in front-line combat, but for a melee skirmisher with lower than average AC and HP it would be a trade-off that promotes the battlefield controller aspect. Bounce around between targets, kill what you can and Topple or Shove what you can't to set up the next party member. And if you do need to close in on a single target, there's a real chance to put them down before they have a chance to swing back without worrying that an average Constitution score makes your most important combat feature nearly meaningless.
Level 11th feature - Superior Martial Arts: in addition you can add your Wis modifier to your MA attacks damage rolls.
Anyway I am looking that for using the monk MA features you have to not wear any armor or shield, is this not applied in BG3?
Correct. This is also true in UA6. In BG3, the only Monk class features which are incompatible with armor are Unarmored Defense (obviusly) and Unarmored Movement. But that's not the balance issue.
In fact even in 2014 nearly all of the core Monk class features work while wearing armor, except ones that trigger off the Unarmored Movement ability. So obviously if that was a balance issue, we'd already have seen it.
The main balance issue in BG3 is that there are no prerequisites for multiclassing. This means you can fundamentally change the Monk from a MAD (multi-attribute distribution) class to SAD (single attribute distribution) and completely ignore stats that the Monk would typically be required to invest in - particularly Dexterity. So the Tavern Brawler Strength Monk in BG3 fundamentally cannot exist on the tabletop because you wouldn't have enough points to distribute into stats unless you made several major sacrifices in other abilities.
I don't mind sacrificing damage, even a big chunk of damage, as long as I'm getting something comparable out of it; Patient Defense can be fantastic, but you're at the mercy of whether any enemies actually would have attacked you, if Patient Defense is what discourages them that's fine, but if your DM randomises targets you could end up spending the Ki to achieve nothing.
Step of the Wind is worth it if your alternative is being out of range and doing no damage at all; in that case you're not losing half, you're gaining half (of your potential maximum if you hadn't been out of range).
The problem is having it tied to a limited resource, because you're not getting extra when you spend it, you're just doing things Monks should be able to do.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
If your DM doesn't randomized targets its even worse; patient defense is basically screaming "ignore me and kill the actually dangerous targets".
I don’t get that. That’s significant metagaming on the DM’s part. Patient Defense doesn’t turn the monk blue to indicate they will be harder to hit. The monk isn’t doing the Daniel-San crane kick from The Karate Kid to win the tournament. There probably isn’t anything significant apparent to enemy for them to know the monk is hard to hit. Any misses would be considered just the normal part of the give and take of combat.
Focusing on defense is like heightened awareness to incoming attacks not some visible shield protecting you.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
As a dm I tend to meta-metagame (paragame?) Where I feel obligated to make sure at least some enemies attack someone if they went on defense just BECAUSE I know.
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
I apply the same requirements to enemies than players, as they have the same knowledge about players than opposite, so make the corresponding lore rolls and etc. from both sides. If have no special reason to choose a target, it is done randomly. The Intelligence (or mind stuff) and attitude of the foes has its role here, it is not the same a group of orcs belligerent than led by an orc shaman smarter and more organized.
It is generally obvious that a character is dodging, and nothing about the patient defense maneuver that says that it's unusually subtle, so yes, it does in fact make it obvious that the character is harder to hit.
Even for dumb monsters it doesn't work, because my usual logic for dumb monsters is "attack whoever hurt it the most", and, well, that's probably not the monk because of the aforementioned large reduction in damage.
I would still disagree. The dodge action says they focus on defense. So in the normal flow of battle you are both keeping an eye out for defense as well as openings to make an attack. Focusing on defense doesn’t mean they are comically bobbing and weaving and ducking around their 5’square. Their attention is just on defense, ignoring potential openings for attack. All within the 6 second round everyone else is being defensive and offensive.
Though I have to agree with your second statement about dumb monsters and monks lack of damage
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
Personally I tend to think of the Dodge action as adopting some kind of stance, whether that's an exaggerated martial arts stance or just keeping your weapon(s) in a guard position, I figure there'd be some kind of cues for an intelligent enemy to spot at least, i.e- you're positioned to block, not to strike. But if you "going defensive" is what discourages an enemy from attacking you, then at least Patient Defense has still achieved something if your goal was to protect yourself.
Patient Defense is after all not really a tanking ability; it can be used to tank if you're confident enemies will still attack you rather than just try to ignore you, or if you (or an ally) have some other way to force them to. Easiest being you're simply in the way (blocking a doorway or such). But otherwise it has no actual mechanical way to compel enemies to attack you, and mechanically actually discourages them.
The problem I've encountered more often with Patient Defense is when you've used it but an enemy wasn't going to attack you anyway, usually because it has a goal you're unaware of. For example, say an enemy rushes and attacks you, you assume it's trying to kill you and Patient Defense, but actually it just wants to escape and on the next turn it disengages and tries to flee. Or maybe it's actual target is someone else, but you were the only target it could reach on that turn etc. A DM could fudge the behaviour to stay on you because you spent a limited resource to do it, but that means changing its behaviour to accommodate you, but part of the risk/reward of Patient Defense is that it can be wasted, but that doesn't make it less annoying that it can be when you're not just giving up a bonus action, you're giving up a bonus action, a Ki point and half of your potential damage.
Then there's the other case where the enemy does attack you and hits you anyway, so it was equally wasted; in my experience it's not because the enemy has +14 to its attack rolls, it's because the dang zombies choose that round to roll double natural 20's. 😡
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
dodge is what happens when someone isn't attacking, but also isn't distracted with another action. pets can do it without a handler's input. it's the simple act of being not-incapacitated. dodge is the "i pass" of battle actions. a disciplined monk choosing to 'focus on defense' just feels more defensive than some other warrior who just hasn't acted this round.
unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
tell them you don't like features disappeared quietly in the night: provide feedback!
It's not unusual in martial arts to dodge out of the way of an attack and counter attack at the same time. In my humble opinion having patient defense and a strong attack action from level 1-20 is something that would be right on theme for the monk. Not that it will ever happen though.....
That would be adding a reaction attack if you're using patient defense and get attacked. Which honestly seems fine, but doesn't do anything if you don't get attacked...
There’s already something in the game for that:
The Battle Master “Riposte” maneuver.
or:
Allowing the Deflect Missiles feature (including its counter attack option) to be used against melee attacks.
It's a little more complex than others, but in terms of build the BG3 Monk has 3 major things going for it:
1: Most Martial Arts abilities are now disjointed from each other, so for example you no longer need to make a regular attack before your Flurry of Blows. This is huge if you want to make use of some of the special Flurry of Blows and other options.
2: Extra damage at key leveling points that offests the lack of martial weapons and the need to go MAD by incorporating Wisdom. Not only does this make the Dex/Wis/Con split easier to manage, it also means that a Monk looking to Skirmish is harder to trap in combat if it doesn't get perfect rolls because the damage was so low or a Stunning Strike didn't go off.
3: Giving Open Hand Monk a 2nd Bonus Action for a limited time means that they can briefly make full use of their mobility features without sacrificing DPS while managing Ki. Also, the changes to Jump mechanics means that so long as the player didn't start their turn in range of an enemy with an Opportunity Attack they can use Step of the Wind to completely bypass 2-3 minor enemies to get into the back lines like the whole skirmisher concept is built around.
I'll be honest about one other thing: Tavern Brawler absolutely leads to some broken builds if not managed. But with a bit of care I think that it could actually be molded into something very balanced especially for late-campaign encounters. And I have to say, it feels FANTASTIC to play a melee Monk that really leans into the "I AM the weapon" concept. At Tier 3 this would be a great ability to end on for combat upgrades and would make up for the 11th level crash where Monks fall drastically behind all other classes for damage output.
Well I only see the feature "Damage Rerolls" of Tavern Brawler to be good for monk, as an unarmed fighting style equal to the Great Weapon. The shove only allows to apply on the Attack Action, so cannot be applied to the BA attacks.
A solution could be allow to use the BA part of MA for free, not depending of anything.
Giving a second BA is something BG3 specific, and in real D&D I doubt we will have it as it can be very easy to head to breaking the system. Can use the Rogue with that multiple BA to kill an entire group alone just dashing and hidding. So much care with that.
Sorry, referring to Baldur's Gate 3 Tavern Brawler feat. It's drastically reworked compared to PHB 2014. Now lets you add your Strength modifier TWICE to Attack and Damage rolls for Unarmed Strikes, Improvised Weapons, and Thrown Weapon attacks.
For Monk 2024, I'd change it to a class feature where you add your Wisdom modifier to your attack and damage rolls for Unarmed Strikes and Monk Weapons that use your Martial Arts die. The bonus on attack rolls is really impactful and makes a Monk one of the most consistent damage output options which gives it something that the Monk undisputably does better than other classes. It also boosts damage output in a consistent measurable way that also rewards the player with other useful side benefits (better AC, better save DC, better skills etc),
The only thing that is making it really busted in BG3 right now is that you can multiclass in such a way that you can do all of this while wearing heavy armor so players can go entirely SAD with Strength and only minor nods to Wisdom and Constitution for health and save reasons.
Terrible. So the monk is just if you want the MA flavor, with knowledge you will have a weaker character, but is what you want to play.
But also have things I like, making some single actions as BA with no Ki requirement. Those should be part of the monk core.
Oh definitely. The problem is that both PHB and UA6 Monks don't even get that. This is why I think the BG3 Tavern Brawler change should be folded into the existing Monk class as a feature to add a different stat in place of doubling strength. It would actually work within the existing Monk class framework as a key starting position to rebalance around without making the Monk just Hexblade Paladin 2.0.
Replace Stunning Strike (currently nerfed to near-useless in UA6) with "also add Wis mod to attack and damage rolls" and give the OHM the option to change their damage type and roll an extra d4 as in the current BG3 subclass. These are mechanically simple solutions which don't wildly change the Monk archetype - it isn't suddenly desperate to don Full Plate armor, it isn't looking at the Great Weapon Master feat in jealousy. It gets a combat specialty - extremely consistent mid-range melee damage output with lots of attacks but can't take the beating the other Martial classes can. The Fighter gets heavy Armor and can switch between a variety of melee and ranged heavy weapons for big damage bursts. The Barbarian is recklessly charging into combat with a massive weapon and damage reduction due to rage. The Paladin can turn a good hit into a powerful Smite and the Ranger and Rogue set up the party for a devastating opening attack.
This would shore up the Monk's ability to contribute in combat beyond Stunning Strike into the Tier 3/4 range. It would also make staying with Monk a viable pathway with regularly scaling damage output and slowly building AC. A +3 bump to melee attack and damage rolls would be a little extreme for other classes expecting to stand in front-line combat, but for a melee skirmisher with lower than average AC and HP it would be a trade-off that promotes the battlefield controller aspect. Bounce around between targets, kill what you can and Topple or Shove what you can't to set up the next party member. And if you do need to close in on a single target, there's a real chance to put them down before they have a chance to swing back without worrying that an average Constitution score makes your most important combat feature nearly meaningless.
Level 11th feature - Superior Martial Arts: in addition you can add your Wis modifier to your MA attacks damage rolls.
Anyway I am looking that for using the monk MA features you have to not wear any armor or shield, is this not applied in BG3?
Correct. This is also true in UA6. In BG3, the only Monk class features which are incompatible with armor are Unarmored Defense (obviusly) and Unarmored Movement. But that's not the balance issue.
In fact even in 2014 nearly all of the core Monk class features work while wearing armor, except ones that trigger off the Unarmored Movement ability. So obviously if that was a balance issue, we'd already have seen it.
The main balance issue in BG3 is that there are no prerequisites for multiclassing. This means you can fundamentally change the Monk from a MAD (multi-attribute distribution) class to SAD (single attribute distribution) and completely ignore stats that the Monk would typically be required to invest in - particularly Dexterity. So the Tavern Brawler Strength Monk in BG3 fundamentally cannot exist on the tabletop because you wouldn't have enough points to distribute into stats unless you made several major sacrifices in other abilities.
Learn Monk Combos and finishing moves from Ragnarok Online Monks.... those would be interesting and fun