Agree. Unarmed Mastery is fine. I like the idea that you have the option to grapple or shove via DEX, in addition to the damage. No other class can do that with the 1DD unarmed strikes rules.
But 5th level Unarmed Master is just tacking on weapon masteries at the expense of Ki/DP and saves, which is the problem with 1DD Open Hand Technique for Open Hand monks. Where Push mastery doesn’t give a save although it is less distance.
Agree. Unarmed Mastery is fine. I like the idea that you have the option to grapple or shove via DEX, in addition to the damage. No other class can do that with the 1DD unarmed strikes rules.
But 5th level Unarmed Master is just tacking on weapon masteries at the expense of Ki/DP and saves, which is the problem with 1DD Open Hand Technique for Open Hand monks. Where Push mastery doesn’t give a save although it is less distance.
It should be kept in mind that Weapon Mastery PUSH has size limit, whereas in this case it does not have this limit. Another factor to take into account is the variety of possible techniques. For all classes except fighter, only 1 technique is accessible per weapon. But I understand that at first glance it might be negative.
Maybe I should make it like PUSH of Weapon Mastery, or maybe just remove the saving throw. As for TOPPLE, that requires a saving throw on constitution while this one on dexterity. Doesn't change much, but useful if enemies have strong CON.
To decrease the gap between weapon and unarmed attacks I thought of this feature:
6th: One with the Weapon
You can create a bond with a Simple Weapon of your choice, it will share out its Mastery propertyand its bonus to attack and damage rolls with your unarmed strikes. Additionally, when you deal damage with your Bond Weapon or Unarmed Strike, it can deal your choice of Force damage or its normal damage type.
This feature should give unarmed attacks another usable Mastery.
I thought that for the monk to become part of the warrior group there should be some changes to be made.
Your practice of martial arts gives you mastery of combat styles that use your Unarmed Strike and Simple Weapons. You gain the following benefits while you aren’t wearing armor or wielding a shield:
Soft Technique. You can use Dexterity instead of Strength for the attack and damage rolls of your Unarmed Strikes and Simple Weapons, except those that have the Two-Handed property.
Martial Arts Die. You can roll a d6 in place of the normal damage of your Unarmed Strike or your weapon attacks. This die changes as you gain Monk levels, as shown in the Martial Arts column of the Monk table.
Quick Strike. When you use the Attack action with an Unarmed Strike or with a Weapon that use dexterity on your turn, you can make one Unarmed Strike as a Bonus Action on the same turn. If you use a Force point during your turn, you can decide to move your Bonus Unarmed Strike as part of the Attack action. It is still possible to make this extra attack only once per turn.
This would allow the monk to access feats that require martial weapons. It could also use martial weapons that use dexterity and thus also have a wider choice of weapons (compared to 5e) and thus also Weapon Mastery.
I understand, but I don't think that having a mastery on an unarmed strike that you can only do once per turn (while weapon masteries can be used every single attack) and cost a Ki/DP is worth it. Even with Push being a slightly further distance, no size restriction, but they get a saving throw, when the WM does not. And Push is already covered under Shove as part of an Unarmed Strike in Unarmed Mastery. And the Ki/DP cost and once per turn to get Topple (which is already covered under Shove as part of an Unarmed Strike in Unarmed Mastery) just to change the saving throw.
And as Gwar1 stated. Those two options don't quite compete with Stun for the same Ki/DP cost.
Agree. Unarmed Mastery is fine. I like the idea that you have the option to grapple or shove via DEX, in addition to the damage. No other class can do that with the 1DD unarmed strikes rules.
But 5th level Unarmed Master is just tacking on weapon masteries at the expense of Ki/DP and saves, which is the problem with 1DD Open Hand Technique for Open Hand monks. Where Push mastery doesn’t give a save although it is less distance.
It should be kept in mind that Weapon Mastery PUSH has size limit, whereas in this case it does not have this limit. Another factor to take into account is the variety of possible techniques. For all classes except fighter, only 1 technique is accessible per weapon. But I understand that at first glance it might be negative.
Maybe I should make it like PUSH of Weapon Mastery, or maybe just remove the saving throw. As for TOPPLE, that requires a saving throw on constitution while this one on dexterity. Doesn't change much, but useful if enemies have strong CON.
To decrease the gap between weapon and unarmed attacks I thought of this feature:
6th: One with the Weapon
You can create a bond with a Simple Weapon of your choice, it will share out its Mastery propertyand its bonus to attack and damage rolls with your unarmed strikes. Additionally, when you deal damage with your Bond Weapon or Unarmed Strike, it can deal your choice of Force damage or its normal damage type.
This feature should give unarmed attacks another usable Mastery.
I thought that for the monk to become part of the warrior group there should be some changes to be made.
Your practice of martial arts gives you mastery of combat styles that use your Unarmed Strike and Simple Weapons. You gain the following benefits while you aren’t wearing armor or wielding a shield:
Soft Technique. You can use Dexterity instead of Strength for the attack and damage rolls of your Unarmed Strikes and Simple Weapons, except those that have the Two-Handed property.
Martial Arts Die. You can roll a d6 in place of the normal damage of your Unarmed Strike or your weapon attacks. This die changes as you gain Monk levels, as shown in the Martial Arts column of the Monk table.
Quick Strike. When you use the Attack action with an Unarmed Strike or with a Weapon that use dexterity on your turn, you can make one Unarmed Strike as a Bonus Action on the same turn. If you use a Force point during your turn, you can decide to move your Bonus Unarmed Strike as part of the Attack action. It is still possible to make this extra attack only once per turn.
This would allow the monk to access feats that require martial weapons. It could also use martial weapons that use dexterity and thus also have a wider choice of weapons (compared to 5e) and thus also Weapon Mastery.
Have you considered moving the bonus action unarmed strike from quick strike to the attack action?
"When you use the Attack action with an Unarmed Strike or with a Weapon that use dexterity on your turn, you can make one Unarmed Strike as a part of the same action."
It's a simple fix that that dramatically improves the monks action economy.
Agree. Unarmed Mastery is fine. I like the idea that you have the option to grapple or shove via DEX, in addition to the damage. No other class can do that with the 1DD unarmed strikes rules.
But 5th level Unarmed Master is just tacking on weapon masteries at the expense of Ki/DP and saves, which is the problem with 1DD Open Hand Technique for Open Hand monks. Where Push mastery doesn’t give a save although it is less distance.
It should be kept in mind that Weapon Mastery PUSH has size limit, whereas in this case it does not have this limit. Another factor to take into account is the variety of possible techniques. For all classes except fighter, only 1 technique is accessible per weapon. But I understand that at first glance it might be negative.
Maybe I should make it like PUSH of Weapon Mastery, or maybe just remove the saving throw. As for TOPPLE, that requires a saving throw on constitution while this one on dexterity. Doesn't change much, but useful if enemies have strong CON.
To decrease the gap between weapon and unarmed attacks I thought of this feature:
6th: One with the Weapon
You can create a bond with a Simple Weapon of your choice, it will share out its Mastery propertyand its bonus to attack and damage rolls with your unarmed strikes. Additionally, when you deal damage with your Bond Weapon or Unarmed Strike, it can deal your choice of Force damage or its normal damage type.
This feature should give unarmed attacks another usable Mastery.
I thought that for the monk to become part of the warrior group there should be some changes to be made.
Your practice of martial arts gives you mastery of combat styles that use your Unarmed Strike and Simple Weapons. You gain the following benefits while you aren’t wearing armor or wielding a shield:
Soft Technique. You can use Dexterity instead of Strength for the attack and damage rolls of your Unarmed Strikes and Simple Weapons, except those that have the Two-Handed property.
Martial Arts Die. You can roll a d6 in place of the normal damage of your Unarmed Strike or your weapon attacks. This die changes as you gain Monk levels, as shown in the Martial Arts column of the Monk table.
Quick Strike. When you use the Attack action with an Unarmed Strike or with a Weapon that use dexterity on your turn, you can make one Unarmed Strike as a Bonus Action on the same turn. If you use a Force point during your turn, you can decide to move your Bonus Unarmed Strike as part of the Attack action. It is still possible to make this extra attack only once per turn.
This would allow the monk to access feats that require martial weapons. It could also use martial weapons that use dexterity and thus also have a wider choice of weapons (compared to 5e) and thus also Weapon Mastery.
Have you considered moving the bonus action unarmed strike from quick strike to the attack action?
"When you use the Attack action with an Unarmed Strike or with a Weapon that use dexterity on your turn, you can make one Unarmed Strike as a part of the same action."
It's a simple fix that that dramatically improves the monks action economy.
I did not want to be as direct as Weapon Mastery NICK, but the correction is certainly much simpler.
Could this enhance Action Surge? You should also avoid making a bonus attack with a second weapon. So as to avoid Armed attack + unarmed attack + attack with the second weapon in the bonus action. How could a sentence be developed that integrates these limitations?
"When you use the Attack action with an Unarmed Strike or with a Weapon that use dexterity on your turn, you can make one Unarmed Strike as a part of the same action. It is still possible to make this extra attack only once per turn."
I understand, but I don't think that having a mastery on an unarmed strike that you can only do once per turn (while weapon masteries can be used every single attack) and cost a Ki/DP is worth it. Even with Push being a slightly further distance, no size restriction, but they get a saving throw, when the WM does not. And Push is already covered under Shove as part of an Unarmed Strike in Unarmed Mastery. And the Ki/DP cost and once per turn to get Topple (which is already covered under Shove as part of an Unarmed Strike in Unarmed Mastery) just to change the saving throw.
And as Gwar1 stated. Those two options don't quite compete with Stun for the same Ki/DP cost.
So the actions that could be taken are:
Directly modify "Unarmed Strike" in the Rules Glossary.
Change Unarmed Mastery by directly forwarding PUSH and SWEEP for each unarmed strike.
Leave "Unarmed Strike" (Rules Glossary) and Unarmed Mastery as they are, and simply find alternative techniques that can equalize STUN (or stunning strike).
They need to not nerf the ma die or weapon mastery for the monk .
barb doesn't get nerfed fighter doesn't get nerfed . I don't care if they use the unarmed attacks, they shouldn't be taxed for their class . I know they are worried monks will be best with simple weapons(fighter will still be better) . at level seventeen you could use a quarterstaff for 1d12 oh no, someone call the fun police . a barb, fighter, ranger, paladin could all start with a d12.
They need to not nerf the ma die or weapon mastery for the monk .
barb doesn't get nerfed fighter doesn't get nerfed . I don't care if they use the unarmed attacks, they shouldn't be taxed for their class . I know they are worried monks will be best with simple weapons(fighter will still be better) . at level seventeen you could use a quarterstaff for 1d12 oh no, someone call the fun police . a barb, fighter, ranger, paladin could all start with a d12.
The Main reason MA die isn’t on weapons is one Mastery. Nick. They don’t want ever monk running around with daggers attacking with their ma die. I was shocked they allowed monk to keep 3 attacks at level 1 with Nick, but now it’s 1d4+ mod, 1d4, BA 1d6+mod. If you let MA apply to weapons that all 1d6s at level 1 where that 3 points of average damage difference if they all hit actually matters.
They need to not nerf the ma die or weapon mastery for the monk .
barb doesn't get nerfed fighter doesn't get nerfed . I don't care if they use the unarmed attacks, they shouldn't be taxed for their class . I know they are worried monks will be best with simple weapons(fighter will still be better) . at level seventeen you could use a quarterstaff for 1d12 oh no, someone call the fun police . a barb, fighter, ranger, paladin could all start with a d12.
The Main reason MA die isn’t on weapons is one Mastery. Nick. They don’t want ever monk running around with daggers attacking with their ma die. I was shocked they allowed monk to keep 3 attacks at level 1 with Nick, but now it’s 1d4+ mod, 1d4, BA 1d6+mod. If you let MA apply to weapons that all 1d6s at level 1 where that 3 points of average damage difference if they all hit actually matters.
Then they should just disallow Monks to use the Nick property. Rather than making it so every monk has to fight unarmed at higher levels.
Though with Cleave, a barbarian can deal 2d6+STR+2+2d6+2 = 4d6+4+STR with one action at level 1, so I'm not so convinced that Monks doing 3d6+2*DEX is broken.
They need to not nerf the ma die or weapon mastery for the monk .
barb doesn't get nerfed fighter doesn't get nerfed . I don't care if they use the unarmed attacks, they shouldn't be taxed for their class . I know they are worried monks will be best with simple weapons(fighter will still be better) . at level seventeen you could use a quarterstaff for 1d12 oh no, someone call the fun police . a barb, fighter, ranger, paladin could all start with a d12.
The Main reason MA die isn’t on weapons is one Mastery. Nick. They don’t want ever monk running around with daggers attacking with their ma die. I was shocked they allowed monk to keep 3 attacks at level 1 with Nick, but now it’s 1d4+ mod, 1d4, BA 1d6+mod. If you let MA apply to weapons that all 1d6s at level 1 where that 3 points of average damage difference if they all hit actually matters.
Then they should just disallow Monks to use the Nick property. Rather than making it so every monk has to fight unarmed at higher levels.
Though with Cleave, a barbarian can deal 2d6+STR+2+2d6+2 = 4d6+4+STR with one action at level 1, so I'm not so convinced that Monks doing 3d6+2*DEX is broken.
They need to not nerf the ma die or weapon mastery for the monk .
barb doesn't get nerfed fighter doesn't get nerfed . I don't care if they use the unarmed attacks, they shouldn't be taxed for their class . I know they are worried monks will be best with simple weapons(fighter will still be better) . at level seventeen you could use a quarterstaff for 1d12 oh no, someone call the fun police . a barb, fighter, ranger, paladin could all start with a d12.
The Main reason MA die isn’t on weapons is one Mastery. Nick. They don’t want ever monk running around with daggers attacking with their ma die. I was shocked they allowed monk to keep 3 attacks at level 1 with Nick, but now it’s 1d4+ mod, 1d4, BA 1d6+mod. If you let MA apply to weapons that all 1d6s at level 1 where that 3 points of average damage difference if they all hit actually matters.
Then they should just disallow Monks to use the Nick property. Rather than making it so every monk has to fight unarmed at higher levels.
Though with Cleave, a barbarian can deal 2d6+STR+2+2d6+2 = 4d6+4+STR with one action at level 1, so I'm not so convinced that Monks doing 3d6+2*DEX is broken.
they don't like doing line item rule changes. However, they could have made it that the MA die is tied to a certain mastery, which doesnt include nick. Then to get nick, you have to use a d4.
I think they also might have wanted unarmed to be a main option for monk, but I think they would need to improve unarmed in that case. Its hard to say though, the UA6 monk is bad in many ways. Maybe there wasn't a lot of thought put in to certain changes.
They need to not nerf the ma die or weapon mastery for the monk .
barb doesn't get nerfed fighter doesn't get nerfed . I don't care if they use the unarmed attacks, they shouldn't be taxed for their class . I know they are worried monks will be best with simple weapons(fighter will still be better) . at level seventeen you could use a quarterstaff for 1d12 oh no, someone call the fun police . a barb, fighter, ranger, paladin could all start with a d12.
The Main reason MA die isn’t on weapons is one Mastery. Nick. They don’t want ever monk running around with daggers attacking with their ma die. I was shocked they allowed monk to keep 3 attacks at level 1 with Nick, but now it’s 1d4+ mod, 1d4, BA 1d6+mod. If you let MA apply to weapons that all 1d6s at level 1 where that 3 points of average damage difference if they all hit actually matters.
Then they should just disallow Monks to use the Nick property. Rather than making it so every monk has to fight unarmed at higher levels.
Though with Cleave, a barbarian can deal 2d6+STR+2+2d6+2 = 4d6+4+STR with one action at level 1, so I'm not so convinced that Monks doing 3d6+2*DEX is broken.
they don't like doing line item rule changes. However, they could have made it that the MA die is tied to a certain mastery, which doesnt include nick. Then to get nick, you have to use a d4.
I think they also might have wanted unarmed to be a main option for monk, but I think they would need to improve unarmed in that case. Its hard to say though, the UA6 monk is bad in many ways. Maybe there wasn't a lot of thought put in to certain changes.
It's 1d4, or 1d4 + Strength/Dexterity modifier if they have the fighting style. That's hardly game-breaking. Heck, once they hit 2nd-level and can start using Ki Discipline, they can choose Patient Defense or Step of the Wind without sacrificing as much damage as before. (Not that those should cost Ki Discipline, only that they still do.) One of the most common complaints about the monk is its weak; that its damage is too low and/or that it needs help in other places. Conventional wisdom would tell us this, even if it's tiny, is a good thing, and here people are arguing against it.
The point of divorcing the MA die from weapons is to make weapon choice matter. Some have a larger die than others, others have situationally more advantageous masteries, and magic items matter more.
So as it is now, since UA6, at 17th level you can do all unarmed for 4d12+20 (assuming 20 Dex and FoB), or 46 avg damage. With WM Nick (no fighting style) Handaxe/dagger 2d6+10, 1d4 (Nick dagger), and 2d12+10 for 42.5 avg damage. If MA die was on weapons it becomes 4d12+20 and 1d12 (Nick dagger) for 52.5 avg damage. Not a huge difference if only looking at mundane items. And skews toward weapon wielding over unarmed for the Attack Action. Which has always been the case with monks in 5E.
Add in fighting style then you go up 5 points of damage. 47.5 (current UA) or 57.5 if you have MA die on weapons. Which puts it 11.5 avg damage per round over all unarmed strikes.
Im not saying monks don’t need MA die on weapons, but I would like it more if they were fairly even so you can choose which way you want to go, depending on the fantasy you are trying to achieve with your character. Maybe the Unarmed magic items they mentioned that are coming will help that.
They need to not nerf the ma die or weapon mastery for the monk .
barb doesn't get nerfed fighter doesn't get nerfed . I don't care if they use the unarmed attacks, they shouldn't be taxed for their class . I know they are worried monks will be best with simple weapons(fighter will still be better) . at level seventeen you could use a quarterstaff for 1d12 oh no, someone call the fun police . a barb, fighter, ranger, paladin could all start with a d12.
The Main reason MA die isn’t on weapons is one Mastery. Nick. They don’t want ever monk running around with daggers attacking with their ma die. I was shocked they allowed monk to keep 3 attacks at level 1 with Nick, but now it’s 1d4+ mod, 1d4, BA 1d6+mod. If you let MA apply to weapons that all 1d6s at level 1 where that 3 points of average damage difference if they all hit actually matters.
Then they should just disallow Monks to use the Nick property. Rather than making it so every monk has to fight unarmed at higher levels.
Though with Cleave, a barbarian can deal 2d6+STR+2+2d6+2 = 4d6+4+STR with one action at level 1, so I'm not so convinced that Monks doing 3d6+2*DEX is broken.
they don't like doing line item rule changes. However, they could have made it that the MA die is tied to a certain mastery, which doesnt include nick. Then to get nick, you have to use a d4.
I think they also might have wanted unarmed to be a main option for monk, but I think they would need to improve unarmed in that case. Its hard to say though, the UA6 monk is bad in many ways. Maybe there wasn't a lot of thought put in to certain changes.
It's 1d4, or 1d4 + Strength/Dexterity modifier if they have the fighting style. That's hardly game-breaking. Heck, once they hit 2nd-level and can start using Ki Discipline, they can choose Patient Defense or Step of the Wind without sacrificing as much damage as before. (Not that those should cost Ki Discipline, only that they still do.) One of the most common complaints about the monk is its weak; that its damage is too low and/or that it needs help in other places. Conventional wisdom would tell us this, even if it's tiny, is a good thing, and here people are arguing against it.
The point of divorcing the MA die from weapons is to make weapon choice matter. Some have a larger die than others, others have situationally more advantageous masteries, and magic items matter more.
That is a pretty big if considering they would have to MC in order to get it. The other option is to just make Unarmed strikes count as Light Weapons with the Nick property for Monks. Or my personal preference would be: Weapon Mastery - you can only benefit from one weapon mastery per turn. [This is to not only fix Monk but also to fix all the weird optimizer shenanigans where people swap between 3 different weapons to use 3 different masteries to get : Attack (Halberd) Attack (Cleave) Attack (Light weapon) Attack (Nick) Attack (BA-PAM), to turn a character with 2 attacks into one with 5 attacks.] Martial Arts - at the start of your turn you can choose to apply one weapon mastery from: Nick, Topple, Push, Vex to apply to your Unarmed Strikes.
They need to not nerf the ma die or weapon mastery for the monk .
barb doesn't get nerfed fighter doesn't get nerfed . I don't care if they use the unarmed attacks, they shouldn't be taxed for their class . I know they are worried monks will be best with simple weapons(fighter will still be better) . at level seventeen you could use a quarterstaff for 1d12 oh no, someone call the fun police . a barb, fighter, ranger, paladin could all start with a d12.
The Main reason MA die isn’t on weapons is one Mastery. Nick. They don’t want ever monk running around with daggers attacking with their ma die. I was shocked they allowed monk to keep 3 attacks at level 1 with Nick, but now it’s 1d4+ mod, 1d4, BA 1d6+mod. If you let MA apply to weapons that all 1d6s at level 1 where that 3 points of average damage difference if they all hit actually matters.
Then they should just disallow Monks to use the Nick property. Rather than making it so every monk has to fight unarmed at higher levels.
Though with Cleave, a barbarian can deal 2d6+STR+2+2d6+2 = 4d6+4+STR with one action at level 1, so I'm not so convinced that Monks doing 3d6+2*DEX is broken.
they don't like doing line item rule changes. However, they could have made it that the MA die is tied to a certain mastery, which doesnt include nick. Then to get nick, you have to use a d4.
I think they also might have wanted unarmed to be a main option for monk, but I think they would need to improve unarmed in that case. Its hard to say though, the UA6 monk is bad in many ways. Maybe there wasn't a lot of thought put in to certain changes.
It's 1d4, or 1d4 + Strength/Dexterity modifier if they have the fighting style. That's hardly game-breaking. Heck, once they hit 2nd-level and can start using Ki Discipline, they can choose Patient Defense or Step of the Wind without sacrificing as much damage as before. (Not that those should cost Ki Discipline, only that they still do.) One of the most common complaints about the monk is its weak; that its damage is too low and/or that it needs help in other places. Conventional wisdom would tell us this, even if it's tiny, is a good thing, and here people are arguing against it.
The point of divorcing the MA die from weapons is to make weapon choice matter. Some have a larger die than others, others have situationally more advantageous masteries, and magic items matter more.
weapon choice would matter more if they had MA dice, as it is now, as you level your weapon choices become worse and worse options. vex on a d6 isnt actually worth it mathematically once you got a d10 or d12. Monks will rarely use weapon mastery after 11 if things remain the same. Got to realize, their mastery is already worse because its limited to simple weapons. Simple weapons are literally designed to be inferior versions of martial weapons for casters.
They need to not nerf the ma die or weapon mastery for the monk .
barb doesn't get nerfed fighter doesn't get nerfed . I don't care if they use the unarmed attacks, they shouldn't be taxed for their class . I know they are worried monks will be best with simple weapons(fighter will still be better) . at level seventeen you could use a quarterstaff for 1d12 oh no, someone call the fun police . a barb, fighter, ranger, paladin could all start with a d12.
The Main reason MA die isn’t on weapons is one Mastery. Nick. They don’t want ever monk running around with daggers attacking with their ma die. I was shocked they allowed monk to keep 3 attacks at level 1 with Nick, but now it’s 1d4+ mod, 1d4, BA 1d6+mod. If you let MA apply to weapons that all 1d6s at level 1 where that 3 points of average damage difference if they all hit actually matters.
Then they should just disallow Monks to use the Nick property. Rather than making it so every monk has to fight unarmed at higher levels.
Though with Cleave, a barbarian can deal 2d6+STR+2+2d6+2 = 4d6+4+STR with one action at level 1, so I'm not so convinced that Monks doing 3d6+2*DEX is broken.
they don't like doing line item rule changes. However, they could have made it that the MA die is tied to a certain mastery, which doesnt include nick. Then to get nick, you have to use a d4.
I think they also might have wanted unarmed to be a main option for monk, but I think they would need to improve unarmed in that case. Its hard to say though, the UA6 monk is bad in many ways. Maybe there wasn't a lot of thought put in to certain changes.
It's 1d4, or 1d4 + Strength/Dexterity modifier if they have the fighting style. That's hardly game-breaking. Heck, once they hit 2nd-level and can start using Ki Discipline, they can choose Patient Defense or Step of the Wind without sacrificing as much damage as before. (Not that those should cost Ki Discipline, only that they still do.) One of the most common complaints about the monk is its weak; that its damage is too low and/or that it needs help in other places. Conventional wisdom would tell us this, even if it's tiny, is a good thing, and here people are arguing against it.
The point of divorcing the MA die from weapons is to make weapon choice matter. Some have a larger die than others, others have situationally more advantageous masteries, and magic items matter more.
That is a pretty big if considering they would have to MC in order to get it. The other option is to just make Unarmed strikes count as Light Weapons with the Nick property for Monks. Or my personal preference would be: Weapon Mastery - you can only benefit from one weapon mastery per turn. [This is to not only fix Monk but also to fix all the weird optimizer shenanigans where people swap between 3 different weapons to use 3 different masteries to get : Attack (Halberd) Attack (Cleave) Attack (Light weapon) Attack (Nick) Attack (BA-PAM), to turn a character with 2 attacks into one with 5 attacks.] Martial Arts - at the start of your turn you can choose to apply one weapon mastery from: Nick, Topple, Push, Vex to apply to your Unarmed Strikes.
How much swapping you can do depends on how many attacks you can make, this is intentional, and gives fighter the greatest versatility with mastery per turn. It also would be oddly punishing dual weapon users who aren't actually doing great right now. And it would make vex and push much stronger by comparison, since you lose effeciency with the other ones after landing one effect.
per hit mastery is not a problem imo, its a feature that makes martial play far more entertaining than it was in 5e.
In my opinion they should directly change Unarmed Strike.
UNARMED STRIKE (original)
An Unarmed Strike is a Melee attack that involves you using your body to damage, grapple, or shove a target within 5 feet of you. Whenever you use your Unarmed Strike, choose one of the following options for its effect: Damage. You make an attack roll against the target. Your bonus to hit equals your Strength modifier + your Proficiency Bonus. On a hit, the target takes Bludgeoning damage equal to 1 + your Strength modifier.
Grapple. The target must succeed on a Strength or Dexterity saving throw (it chooses which), or it has the Grappled condition. The DC for the saving throw and any escape attempts equals 8 + your Strength modifier + your Proficiency Bonus. This grapple is possible only if the target is no more than one size larger than you and if you have a hand free to grab it.
Shove. The target must succeed on a Strength or Dexterity saving throw (it chooses which), or you either push the target 5 feet away or cause it to have the Prone condition. The DC for the saving throw equals 8 + your Strength modifier + your Proficiency Bonus. This shove is possible only if the target is no more than one size larger than you.
UNARMED STRIKE (variant)
An Unarmed Strike is a Melee attack that involves you using your body to damage, grapple, or push, or topple a target within 5 feet of you. Whenever you use your Unarmed Strike, choose one of the following options for its effect: Damage. You make an attack roll against the target. Your bonus to hit equals your Strength modifier + your Proficiency Bonus. On a hit, the target takes Bludgeoning damage equal to 1 + your Strength modifier.
Grapple. The target must succeed on a Strength or Dexterity saving throw (it chooses which), or it has the Grappled condition. The DC for the saving throw and any escape attempts equals 8 + your Strength modifier + your Proficiency Bonus. This grapple is possible only if the target is no more than one size larger than you and if you have a hand free to grab it.
Push. You can push the creature up to 10 feet away from you horizontally if it is no more than one size larger than you.
Topple. The target must succeed on a Dexterity saving throw with a DC equal to 8 + your Strength modifier + your Proficiency Bonus, or fall in the Prone condition.
Then simply offer the monk the chance to do the damage with one of the following options of its choice. (With the use of dexterity instead of strength.)
And offering an option to use a viariant of NICK in unarmed attacks so as to make the monk's bonus action more usable, be it shadow step, SotW, PD, etc...
They need to not nerf the ma die or weapon mastery for the monk .
barb doesn't get nerfed fighter doesn't get nerfed . I don't care if they use the unarmed attacks, they shouldn't be taxed for their class . I know they are worried monks will be best with simple weapons(fighter will still be better) . at level seventeen you could use a quarterstaff for 1d12 oh no, someone call the fun police . a barb, fighter, ranger, paladin could all start with a d12.
The Main reason MA die isn’t on weapons is one Mastery. Nick. They don’t want ever monk running around with daggers attacking with their ma die. I was shocked they allowed monk to keep 3 attacks at level 1 with Nick, but now it’s 1d4+ mod, 1d4, BA 1d6+mod. If you let MA apply to weapons that all 1d6s at level 1 where that 3 points of average damage difference if they all hit actually matters.
I think that's dumb . if ya want level gate it ok ,
but its bad design to add a cool feature and only nerf one of the classes who it is supposed to be for .
So as it is now, since UA6, at 17th level you can do all unarmed for 4d12+20 (assuming 20 Dex and FoB), or 46 avg damage. With WM Nick (no fighting style) Handaxe/dagger 2d6+10, 1d4 (Nick dagger), and 2d12+10 for 42.5 avg damage. If MA die was on weapons it becomes 4d12+20 and 1d12 (Nick dagger) for 52.5 avg damage. Not a huge difference if only looking at mundane items. And skews toward weapon wielding over unarmed for the Attack Action. Which has always been the case with monks in 5E.
Add in fighting style then you go up 5 points of damage. 47.5 (current UA) or 57.5 if you have MA die on weapons. Which puts it 11.5 avg damage per round over all unarmed strikes.
Im not saying monks don’t need MA die on weapons, but I would like it more if they were fairly even so you can choose which way you want to go, depending on the fantasy you are trying to achieve with your character. Maybe the Unarmed magic items they mentioned that are coming will help that.
I dont see a problem with that they would have to spend ki every turn to deep up that dpr. you ought to be rewarded if your spending a resource and sacrificing bonus action
I think they should add "your ma die turns your fist or weapon into a plus magic weapon at certain levels" maybe plus one level 5 plus 2 level eleven or plus 3 at seventeen that way you could use whatever you want for flavor and it would make sense with monk having the inherent power within themselves rather then needing equipment.
we could adjust levels as needed but that way you could be pretty strong no matter what you like to use .
and for those who think we cant cause weapon mastery then I say weapon mastery needs to change . I don't see people crying that the fighter and barb can use them . this was supposed to be the warriors thing including the monk now ya have a ton of classes who can use weapon mastery better then monk, that is unacceptable imo.
They need to not nerf the ma die or weapon mastery for the monk .
barb doesn't get nerfed fighter doesn't get nerfed . I don't care if they use the unarmed attacks, they shouldn't be taxed for their class . I know they are worried monks will be best with simple weapons(fighter will still be better) . at level seventeen you could use a quarterstaff for 1d12 oh no, someone call the fun police . a barb, fighter, ranger, paladin could all start with a d12.
The Main reason MA die isn’t on weapons is one Mastery. Nick. They don’t want ever monk running around with daggers attacking with their ma die. I was shocked they allowed monk to keep 3 attacks at level 1 with Nick, but now it’s 1d4+ mod, 1d4, BA 1d6+mod. If you let MA apply to weapons that all 1d6s at level 1 where that 3 points of average damage difference if they all hit actually matters.
I think that's dumb . if ya want level gate it ok ,
but its bad design to add a cool feature and only nerf one of the classes who it is supposed to be for .
In my opinion the only class that should have gotten weapon masteries is the Fighter, but my opinion on that doesn’t really matter. Unarmed Strikes don’t start really outclassing the weapon choices until level 11. There is no way to level gate Nick because Weapon Mastery is a level 1 feature on every other class that gets it. It would be strange to get it at later.
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Agree. Unarmed Mastery is fine. I like the idea that you have the option to grapple or shove via DEX, in addition to the damage. No other class can do that with the 1DD unarmed strikes rules.
But 5th level Unarmed Master is just tacking on weapon masteries at the expense of Ki/DP and saves, which is the problem with 1DD Open Hand Technique for Open Hand monks. Where Push mastery doesn’t give a save although it is less distance.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
It should be kept in mind that Weapon Mastery PUSH has size limit, whereas in this case it does not have this limit. Another factor to take into account is the variety of possible techniques. For all classes except fighter, only 1 technique is accessible per weapon. But I understand that at first glance it might be negative.
Maybe I should make it like PUSH of Weapon Mastery, or maybe just remove the saving throw. As for TOPPLE, that requires a saving throw on constitution while this one on dexterity. Doesn't change much, but useful if enemies have strong CON.
To decrease the gap between weapon and unarmed attacks I thought of this feature:
6th: One with the Weapon
You can create a bond with a Simple Weapon of your choice, it will share out its Mastery property
and its bonus to attack and damage rolls with your unarmed strikes. Additionally, when you deal damage with your Bond Weapon or Unarmed Strike, it can deal your choice of Force damage or its normal damage type.This feature should give unarmed attacks another usable Mastery.
I thought that for the monk to become part of the warrior group there should be some changes to be made.
Proficiencies Weapons: Simple Weapons, Martial Weapons
1st: Martial Arts
Your practice of martial arts gives you mastery of combat styles that use your Unarmed Strike and Simple Weapons. You gain the following benefits while you aren’t wearing armor or wielding a shield:
Soft Technique. You can use Dexterity instead of Strength for the attack and damage rolls of your Unarmed Strikes and Simple Weapons, except those that have the Two-Handed property.
Martial Arts Die. You can roll a d6 in place of the normal damage of your Unarmed Strike or your weapon attacks. This die changes as you gain Monk levels, as shown in the Martial Arts column of the Monk table.
Quick Strike. When you use the Attack action with an Unarmed Strike or with a Weapon that use dexterity on your turn, you can make one Unarmed Strike as a Bonus Action on the same turn.
If you use a Force point during your turn, you can decide to move your Bonus Unarmed Strike as part of the Attack action. It is still possible to make this extra attack only once per turn.This would allow the monk to access feats that require martial weapons. It could also use martial weapons that use dexterity and thus also have a wider choice of weapons (compared to 5e) and thus also Weapon Mastery.
I understand, but I don't think that having a mastery on an unarmed strike that you can only do once per turn (while weapon masteries can be used every single attack) and cost a Ki/DP is worth it. Even with Push being a slightly further distance, no size restriction, but they get a saving throw, when the WM does not. And Push is already covered under Shove as part of an Unarmed Strike in Unarmed Mastery. And the Ki/DP cost and once per turn to get Topple (which is already covered under Shove as part of an Unarmed Strike in Unarmed Mastery) just to change the saving throw.
And as Gwar1 stated. Those two options don't quite compete with Stun for the same Ki/DP cost.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
Have you considered moving the bonus action unarmed strike from quick strike to the attack action?
"When you use the Attack action with an Unarmed Strike or with a Weapon that use dexterity on your turn, you can make one Unarmed Strike as a part of the same action."
It's a simple fix that that dramatically improves the monks action economy.
I did not want to be as direct as Weapon Mastery NICK, but the correction is certainly much simpler.
Could this enhance Action Surge? You should also avoid making a bonus attack with a second weapon. So as to avoid Armed attack + unarmed attack + attack with the second weapon in the bonus action. How could a sentence be developed that integrates these limitations?
"When you use the Attack action with an Unarmed Strike or with a Weapon that use dexterity on your turn, you can make one Unarmed Strike as a part of the same action. It is still possible to make this extra attack only once per turn."
I don't think that's enough.
They need to not nerf the ma die or weapon mastery for the monk .
barb doesn't get nerfed fighter doesn't get nerfed . I don't care if they use the unarmed attacks, they shouldn't be taxed for their class . I know they are worried monks will be best with simple weapons(fighter will still be better) . at level seventeen you could use a quarterstaff for 1d12 oh no, someone call the fun police . a barb, fighter, ranger, paladin could all start with a d12.
The Main reason MA die isn’t on weapons is one Mastery. Nick. They don’t want ever monk running around with daggers attacking with their ma die. I was shocked they allowed monk to keep 3 attacks at level 1 with Nick, but now it’s 1d4+ mod, 1d4, BA 1d6+mod. If you let MA apply to weapons that all 1d6s at level 1 where that 3 points of average damage difference if they all hit actually matters.
Then they should just disallow Monks to use the Nick property. Rather than making it so every monk has to fight unarmed at higher levels.
Though with Cleave, a barbarian can deal 2d6+STR+2+2d6+2 = 4d6+4+STR with one action at level 1, so I'm not so convinced that Monks doing 3d6+2*DEX is broken.
If they have two opponents standing within range.
they don't like doing line item rule changes. However, they could have made it that the MA die is tied to a certain mastery, which doesnt include nick. Then to get nick, you have to use a d4.
I think they also might have wanted unarmed to be a main option for monk, but I think they would need to improve unarmed in that case. Its hard to say though, the UA6 monk is bad in many ways. Maybe there wasn't a lot of thought put in to certain changes.
It's 1d4, or 1d4 + Strength/Dexterity modifier if they have the fighting style. That's hardly game-breaking. Heck, once they hit 2nd-level and can start using
KiDiscipline, they can choose Patient Defense or Step of the Wind without sacrificing as much damage as before. (Not that those should costKiDiscipline, only that they still do.) One of the most common complaints about the monk is its weak; that its damage is too low and/or that it needs help in other places. Conventional wisdom would tell us this, even if it's tiny, is a good thing, and here people are arguing against it.The point of divorcing the MA die from weapons is to make weapon choice matter. Some have a larger die than others, others have situationally more advantageous masteries, and magic items matter more.
So as it is now, since UA6, at 17th level you can do all unarmed for 4d12+20 (assuming 20 Dex and FoB), or 46 avg damage. With WM Nick (no fighting style) Handaxe/dagger 2d6+10, 1d4 (Nick dagger), and 2d12+10 for 42.5 avg damage. If MA die was on weapons it becomes 4d12+20 and 1d12 (Nick dagger) for 52.5 avg damage. Not a huge difference if only looking at mundane items. And skews toward weapon wielding over unarmed for the Attack Action. Which has always been the case with monks in 5E.
Add in fighting style then you go up 5 points of damage. 47.5 (current UA) or 57.5 if you have MA die on weapons. Which puts it 11.5 avg damage per round over all unarmed strikes.
Im not saying monks don’t need MA die on weapons, but I would like it more if they were fairly even so you can choose which way you want to go, depending on the fantasy you are trying to achieve with your character. Maybe the Unarmed magic items they mentioned that are coming will help that.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
That is a pretty big if considering they would have to MC in order to get it. The other option is to just make Unarmed strikes count as Light Weapons with the Nick property for Monks. Or my personal preference would be:
Weapon Mastery - you can only benefit from one weapon mastery per turn. [This is to not only fix Monk but also to fix all the weird optimizer shenanigans where people swap between 3 different weapons to use 3 different masteries to get : Attack (Halberd) Attack (Cleave) Attack (Light weapon) Attack (Nick) Attack (BA-PAM), to turn a character with 2 attacks into one with 5 attacks.]
Martial Arts - at the start of your turn you can choose to apply one weapon mastery from: Nick, Topple, Push, Vex to apply to your Unarmed Strikes.
weapon choice would matter more if they had MA dice, as it is now, as you level your weapon choices become worse and worse options. vex on a d6 isnt actually worth it mathematically once you got a d10 or d12. Monks will rarely use weapon mastery after 11 if things remain the same. Got to realize, their mastery is already worse because its limited to simple weapons. Simple weapons are literally designed to be inferior versions of martial weapons for casters.
How much swapping you can do depends on how many attacks you can make, this is intentional, and gives fighter the greatest versatility with mastery per turn. It also would be oddly punishing dual weapon users who aren't actually doing great right now. And it would make vex and push much stronger by comparison, since you lose effeciency with the other ones after landing one effect.
per hit mastery is not a problem imo, its a feature that makes martial play far more entertaining than it was in 5e.
In my opinion they should directly change Unarmed Strike.
UNARMED STRIKE (original)
An Unarmed Strike is a Melee attack that involves you using your body to damage, grapple, or shove a target within 5 feet of you. Whenever you use your Unarmed Strike, choose one of the following options for its effect: Damage. You make an attack roll against the target. Your bonus to hit equals your Strength modifier + your Proficiency Bonus. On a hit, the target takes Bludgeoning damage equal to 1 + your Strength modifier.
Grapple. The target must succeed on a Strength or Dexterity saving throw (it chooses which), or it has the Grappled condition. The DC for the saving throw and any escape attempts equals 8 + your Strength modifier + your Proficiency Bonus. This grapple is possible only if the target is no more than one size larger than you and if you have a hand free to grab it.
Shove. The target must succeed on a Strength or Dexterity saving throw (it chooses which), or you either push the target 5 feet away or cause it to have the Prone condition. The DC for the saving throw equals 8 + your Strength modifier + your Proficiency Bonus. This shove is possible only if the target is no more than one size larger than you.
UNARMED STRIKE (variant)
An Unarmed Strike is a Melee attack that involves you using your body to damage, grapple, or push, or topple a target within 5 feet of you. Whenever you use your Unarmed Strike, choose one of the following options for its effect: Damage. You make an attack roll against the target. Your bonus to hit equals your Strength modifier + your Proficiency Bonus. On a hit, the target takes Bludgeoning damage equal to 1 + your Strength modifier.
Grapple. The target must succeed on a Strength or Dexterity saving throw (it chooses which), or it has the Grappled condition. The DC for the saving throw and any escape attempts equals 8 + your Strength modifier + your Proficiency Bonus. This grapple is possible only if the target is no more than one size larger than you and if you have a hand free to grab it.
Push. You can push the creature up to 10 feet away from you horizontally if it is no more than one size larger than you.
Topple. The target must succeed on a Dexterity saving throw with a DC equal to 8 + your Strength modifier + your Proficiency Bonus, or fall in the Prone condition.
Then simply offer the monk the chance to do the damage with one of the following options of its choice. (With the use of dexterity instead of strength.)
And offering an option to use a viariant of NICK in unarmed attacks so as to make the monk's bonus action more usable, be it shadow step, SotW, PD, etc...
I think that's dumb . if ya want level gate it ok ,
but its bad design to add a cool feature and only nerf one of the classes who it is supposed to be for .
I dont see a problem with that they would have to spend ki every turn to deep up that dpr. you ought to be rewarded if your spending a resource and sacrificing bonus action
I think they should add "your ma die turns your fist or weapon into a plus magic weapon at certain levels" maybe plus one level 5 plus 2 level eleven or plus 3 at seventeen that way you could use whatever you want for flavor and it would make sense with monk having the inherent power within themselves rather then needing equipment.
we could adjust levels as needed but that way you could be pretty strong no matter what you like to use .
and for those who think we cant cause weapon mastery then I say weapon mastery needs to change . I don't see people crying that the fighter and barb can use them . this was supposed to be the warriors thing including the monk now ya have a ton of classes who can use weapon mastery better then monk, that is unacceptable imo.
In my opinion the only class that should have gotten weapon masteries is the Fighter, but my opinion on that doesn’t really matter.
Unarmed Strikes don’t start really outclassing the weapon choices until level 11. There is no way to level gate Nick because Weapon Mastery is a level 1 feature on every other class that gets it. It would be strange to get it at later.