Rangers should be the best class option for ranged combat. Not Fighter, or Rogue, or Bard, or a multiclass. Bonuses to hit, to damage, to # of attacks, to critical range, to critical damage (remember 3/3.5e weapons that had ×2 or ×3 critical multipliers? Something like that maybe- but specific to Rangers? ) Maybe even "trick" arrows for status affects or debuffs (like Hawkeye or Green Arrow).
The part of the Tireless feature that reduces Exhaustion on a Short Rest will only be good if there are creatures, traps, & environments that specifically & explicitly cause Exhaustion. Whichever version of Exhaustion we may get. Right now, only the 2014 Frenzy Barbarian does that. Otherwise, it's up to the DM to determine if lack of sleep or food, or some other factor (environmental or creature) causes it.
Rangers could have non-magical healing. A way to incorporate either the Healer's kit or Herbalism kit, so that they can heal without spells.
Rangers should be immune to difficult terrain.
If Natural Explorer continues as a feature, they could spice it up, perhaps by having it scale into higher levels with more functions. Like bonuses to hit & to damage, if combat takes place in one if their chosen terrain types. Bonuses to AC and/or Saves while fighting in their terrains. Party cannot be surprised while in their terrain. Perhaps some of these bonuses could be shared, like a Paladin's Aura?
Tracking & Exploration are all fine & good, but I just don't see them actually come up much in game play. Right now, anyone with a Locate Animal or Creature spell- or a Paladin with Divine Sense- is as good or better at finding creatures than the Ranger. Perhaps a boost to Passive Perception? Or a "Primal Sense" ability to allow them to sense nearby creatures? One that doesn't burn a spell slot.
A "Natural Empathy" ability, that allows Rangers to summon a familiar pet, like the Druid.
Rangers should get to choose extra tool proficiencies from Woodcarvers, Leatherworkers, Cooks, perhaps others. And it should gicmve them bonuses to harvesting raw materials from plants or creatures or the environment; and also bonuses to crafting mundane (or later magical?) objects from those harvested materials. Things like bows, arrows, leather armors, other clothes or armor (like dragonscale, eg), herbal health potions, antitoxins, tanglefoot bags, etc...
Hunters Mark, Conjure Barrage/Volley.... lose em. Keep em. Idc. But if kept, they should better help to define the Ranger & the Ranger's role in a party & the Ranger's mechanical power relative to other classes.
Why does Gloom Stalker get free extra prepared spells, but Hunter & Beast Master do not? (Not really calling out Fey Wanderer, as it had no revisions printed in UA6.)
Hunter.... kinda sucks. It's not "bad". It's bland. Not sure what the fix here is... doe estrus? Maybe abilities that let the Ranger "bait" or "call" certain creatures into an ambush, if the Ranger knows they're near? Bonuses to using nets?
Even if you disregard the lack of class-defining flavor and unique mechanical features, the Ranger in UA6 suffers greatly in comparison to the other 2 half-casters: Paladin & Warlock. Paladins have Lay on Hands & Channel Divinty & a d8 bonus to all attacks at lvl 11.... and their aura. Warlocks have Invocations. The Ranger has way less in comparison to these resource pools. They have half-caster spell progression and Hunter's Mark. Which sucks under UA6 rules. Compared to the other Expert Classes, well, Bards & Rogues each get 4 Expertises, & Bards get Jack of All Trades & Rogues get Reliable Talent), Rangers got nerfed back to 2 Expertises because of the largely fluff feature of Natural Explorer. Bards were unleashed to be the most customizable casters in the game, with great support features. Rogues gained the ability to trip, blind, disarm, knock out, etc. Which gives them way more combat options. Rangers got a bad Hunter's Mark spell & 2 spell PREPARATIONS of Barrage/Volley.
Rangers have never been the best option for ranged combat. In 3e they were probably one of the best for two weapon fighting, and they are always a good option for ranged combat. Honestly in 5e a multiclass will always be the best pure archer build. Also Rangers weren’t held back compared to any other full class as far as being an Archer. If you look at he Ranger spell list they had some trick arrows that people failed to use, ensnaring strike, zypher strike, flame arrows, and lightning arrow. The flaw is they are all concentration so most people are going to go with hunters mark.
The tireless feature is for environmental caused exhaustion and forced marches. Is that rare, yes, but they also gave you temp hp.
Non magical healing might be redundant since they have cure wounds. Why should they be healing without spells? That would cause some balance issues unless it was limited use. If it’s limited use it becomes another resource to track.
Rangers being immune to difficult terrain could cause some balance issues.
If the new Deft Explorer was closer to 5e Natural Explorer and gave advantage on all Int and Wis checks involving your chosen terrain that might be good enough. The old natural explorer gave you expertise in them while in the terrain, but I’ll take advantage since you get to switch the terrain each long rest.
Tracking and Exploration are a core part of Ranger fantasy so adventures should lean into that more instead of trying to get rid of it. Also not everyone has a locate animal spell and divine sense doesn’t have a great range.
Not all Rangers need a pet, and they already have access to animal friendship if you want to give them a pet. Everyone shouldn’t have find familiar.
In my opinion Rangers aren’t craftsmen and having them crafting bows, etc outside of normal tool proficiency starts to lean into artificer territory.
I prefer the old version of hunters mark, but one version must stay. Hunter’s mark is a damage boost that is needed for the Ranger. It also gives a boost to tracking, but I have never seen that used. Conjure Barrage, and Volley should be optional with a choice for a melee flavored spell.
The new Gloomstalker needs some work. Going basically invisible in the dark while giving out the frightened condition is pointless. Well they would be frightened, but they don’t see you. Also you are right all rangers should have some bonus spells.
Hunters are good. Imagine a party that doesn’t know trolls are weak to fire and it stops there regeneration. Hunters lore will save them. Hunters are similar to the champion fighter though so I can understand why you consider them bland.
I would argue Deft Explorer almost counts as class defining feature, but combined with Roving and favored enemy we know what the Ranger is meant to be doing. I refuse to compare anything to the warlock because I don’t believe that half caster will survive the playtest. Comparing it to the Paladin is fair. After the nerf stick hit Paladin in the UA I will argue Ranger isn’t as far behind as it was in 5e. Smites vs Hunters Mark is almost a wash, but I still give smites the edge.
Rangers should be the best class option for ranged combat. Not Fighter, or Rogue, or Bard, or a multiclass. Bonuses to hit, to damage, to # of attacks, to critical range, to critical damage (remember 3/3.5e weapons that had ×2 or ×3 critical multipliers? Something like that maybe- but specific to Rangers? ) Maybe even "trick" arrows for status affects or debuffs (like Hawkeye or Green Arrow).
The part of the Tireless feature that reduces Exhaustion on a Short Rest will only be good if there are creatures, traps, & environments that specifically & explicitly cause Exhaustion. Whichever version of Exhaustion we may get. Right now, only the 2014 Frenzy Barbarian does that. Otherwise, it's up to the DM to determine if lack of sleep or food, or some other factor (environmental or creature) causes it.
Rangers could have non-magical healing. A way to incorporate either the Healer's kit or Herbalism kit, so that they can heal without spells.
Rangers should be immune to difficult terrain.
If Natural Explorer continues as a feature, they could spice it up, perhaps by having it scale into higher levels with more functions. Like bonuses to hit & to damage, if combat takes place in one if their chosen terrain types. Bonuses to AC and/or Saves while fighting in their terrains. Party cannot be surprised while in their terrain. Perhaps some of these bonuses could be shared, like a Paladin's Aura?
Tracking & Exploration are all fine & good, but I just don't see them actually come up much in game play. Right now, anyone with a Locate Animal or Creature spell- or a Paladin with Divine Sense- is as good or better at finding creatures than the Ranger. Perhaps a boost to Passive Perception? Or a "Primal Sense" ability to allow them to sense nearby creatures? One that doesn't burn a spell slot.
A "Natural Empathy" ability, that allows Rangers to summon a familiar pet, like the Druid.
Rangers should get to choose extra tool proficiencies from Woodcarvers, Leatherworkers, Cooks, perhaps others. And it should gicmve them bonuses to harvesting raw materials from plants or creatures or the environment; and also bonuses to crafting mundane (or later magical?) objects from those harvested materials. Things like bows, arrows, leather armors, other clothes or armor (like dragonscale, eg), herbal health potions, antitoxins, tanglefoot bags, etc...
Hunters Mark, Conjure Barrage/Volley.... lose em. Keep em. Idc. But if kept, they should better help to define the Ranger & the Ranger's role in a party & the Ranger's mechanical power relative to other classes.
Why does Gloom Stalker get free extra prepared spells, but Hunter & Beast Master do not? (Not really calling out Fey Wanderer, as it had no revisions printed in UA6.)
Hunter.... kinda sucks. It's not "bad". It's bland. Not sure what the fix here is... doe estrus? Maybe abilities that let the Ranger "bait" or "call" certain creatures into an ambush, if the Ranger knows they're near? Bonuses to using nets?
Even if you disregard the lack of class-defining flavor and unique mechanical features, the Ranger in UA6 suffers greatly in comparison to the other 2 half-casters: Paladin & Warlock. Paladins have Lay on Hands & Channel Divinty & a d8 bonus to all attacks at lvl 11.... and their aura. Warlocks have Invocations. The Ranger has way less in comparison to these resource pools. They have half-caster spell progression and Hunter's Mark. Which sucks under UA6 rules. Compared to the other Expert Classes, well, Bards & Rogues each get 4 Expertises, & Bards get Jack of All Trades & Rogues get Reliable Talent), Rangers got nerfed back to 2 Expertises because of the largely fluff feature of Natural Explorer. Bards were unleashed to be the most customizable casters in the game, with great support features. Rogues gained the ability to trip, blind, disarm, knock out, etc. Which gives them way more combat options. Rangers got a bad Hunter's Mark spell & 2 spell PREPARATIONS of Barrage/Volley.
Rangers have never been the best option for ranged combat. In 3e they were probably one of the best for two weapon fighting, and they are always a good option for ranged combat. Honestly in 5e a multiclass will always be the best pure archer build. Also Rangers weren’t held back compared to any other full class as far as being an Archer. If you look at he Ranger spell list they had some trick arrows that people failed to use, ensnaring strike, zypher strike, flame arrows, and lightning arrow. The flaw is they are all concentration so most people are going to go with hunters mark.
The tireless feature is for environmental caused exhaustion and forced marches. Is that rare, yes, but they also gave you temp hp.
Non magical healing might be redundant since they have cure wounds. Why should they be healing without spells? That would cause some balance issues unless it was limited use. If it’s limited use it becomes another resource to track.
Rangers being immune to difficult terrain could cause some balance issues.
If the new Deft Explorer was closer to 5e Natural Explorer and gave advantage on all Int and Wis checks involving your chosen terrain that might be good enough. The old natural explorer gave you expertise in them while in the terrain, but I’ll take advantage since you get to switch the terrain each long rest.
Tracking and Exploration are a core part of Ranger fantasy so adventures should lean into that more instead of trying to get rid of it. Also not everyone has a locate animal spell and divine sense doesn’t have a great range.
Not all Rangers need a pet, and they already have access to animal friendship if you want to give them a pet. Everyone shouldn’t have find familiar.
In my opinion Rangers aren’t craftsmen and having them crafting bows, etc outside of normal tool proficiency starts to lean into artificer territory.
I prefer the old version of hunters mark, but one version must stay. Hunter’s mark is a damage boost that is needed for the Ranger. It also gives a boost to tracking, but I have never seen that used. Conjure Barrage, and Volley should be optional with a choice for a melee flavored spell.
The new Gloomstalker needs some work. Going basically invisible in the dark while giving out the frightened condition is pointless. Well they would be frightened, but they don’t see you. Also you are right all rangers should have some bonus spells.
Hunters are good. Imagine a party that doesn’t know trolls are weak to fire and it stops there regeneration. Hunters lore will save them. Hunters are similar to the champion fighter though so I can understand why you consider them bland.
I would argue Deft Explorer almost counts as class defining feature, but combined with Roving and favored enemy we know what the Ranger is meant to be doing. I refuse to compare anything to the warlock because I don’t believe that half caster will survive the playtest. Comparing it to the Paladin is fair. After the nerf stick hit Paladin in the UA I will argue Ranger isn’t as far behind as it was in 5e. Smites vs Hunters Mark is almost a wash, but I still give smites the edge.
I agree with this pretty much. the only issue I have with deft is I think the level 9 feature could just be replaced by raw expertise, or something else to add to that flavor. Mostly because I don't think we need more than 2 terrains at a time, or just make it "all terrains" because I believe Rangers should be an all terrain character. But Roving and tireless go a long way for the Ranger. Also if we are tying Hunter's mark and Hex to those respective classes I really do not think they need to be made to NEED upcasting. I am not opposed to upcasting them providing more value though. This is why I am a proponent of upcasting losing the concentration.
Since they can change terrains with a long rest they technically do have all terrains, they just need time to get acclimated. I do agree gaining additional terrains at 9th is pointless since you can just switch them out already. 9th should just allow you to get acclimated on a short rest or like you said just give all terrains. I fear giving more expertise will make rogue players feel like you are stepping on their toes, but if reliable talent stays were it is in the UA giving rangers more expertise at 9th shouldn’t be a problem.
Since they can change terrains with a long rest they technically do have all terrains, they just need time to get acclimated. I do agree gaining additional terrains at 9th is pointless since you can just switch them out already. 9th should just allow you to get acclimated on a short rest or like you said just give all terrains. I fear giving more expertise will make rogue players feel like you are stepping on their toes, but if reliable talent stays were it is in the UA giving rangers more expertise at 9th shouldn’t be a problem.
Ya my assumption was rogue gets printed as is. I haven't seen much negative response to that one except maybe wanting second rogue features a little earlier. But I would be cool with a short rest change as well. I just know the extra 2 aren't doing much, and I am also not a fan of Conjure Volley IN ADDITION to Conjure Barrage. Of the opinion that only one is really needed and could give Ranger something else cool in its place. Don't know what admittedly.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Rangers have never been the best option for ranged combat. In 3e they were probably one of the best for two weapon fighting, and they are always a good option for ranged combat. Honestly in 5e a multiclass will always be the best pure archer build. Also Rangers weren’t held back compared to any other full class as far as being an Archer. If you look at he Ranger spell list they had some trick arrows that people failed to use, ensnaring strike, zypher strike, flame arrows, and lightning arrow. The flaw is they are all concentration so most people are going to go with hunters mark.
The tireless feature is for environmental caused exhaustion and forced marches. Is that rare, yes, but they also gave you temp hp.
Non magical healing might be redundant since they have cure wounds. Why should they be healing without spells? That would cause some balance issues unless it was limited use. If it’s limited use it becomes another resource to track.
Rangers being immune to difficult terrain could cause some balance issues.
If the new Deft Explorer was closer to 5e Natural Explorer and gave advantage on all Int and Wis checks involving your chosen terrain that might be good enough. The old natural explorer gave you expertise in them while in the terrain, but I’ll take advantage since you get to switch the terrain each long rest.
Tracking and Exploration are a core part of Ranger fantasy so adventures should lean into that more instead of trying to get rid of it. Also not everyone has a locate animal spell and divine sense doesn’t have a great range.
Not all Rangers need a pet, and they already have access to animal friendship if you want to give them a pet. Everyone shouldn’t have find familiar.
In my opinion Rangers aren’t craftsmen and having them crafting bows, etc outside of normal tool proficiency starts to lean into artificer territory.
I prefer the old version of hunters mark, but one version must stay. Hunter’s mark is a damage boost that is needed for the Ranger. It also gives a boost to tracking, but I have never seen that used. Conjure Barrage, and Volley should be optional with a choice for a melee flavored spell.
The new Gloomstalker needs some work. Going basically invisible in the dark while giving out the frightened condition is pointless. Well they would be frightened, but they don’t see you. Also you are right all rangers should have some bonus spells.
Hunters are good. Imagine a party that doesn’t know trolls are weak to fire and it stops there regeneration. Hunters lore will save them. Hunters are similar to the champion fighter though so I can understand why you consider them bland.
I would argue Deft Explorer almost counts as class defining feature, but combined with Roving and favored enemy we know what the Ranger is meant to be doing. I refuse to compare anything to the warlock because I don’t believe that half caster will survive the playtest. Comparing it to the Paladin is fair. After the nerf stick hit Paladin in the UA I will argue Ranger isn’t as far behind as it was in 5e. Smites vs Hunters Mark is almost a wash, but I still give smites the edge.
I agree with this pretty much. the only issue I have with deft is I think the level 9 feature could just be replaced by raw expertise, or something else to add to that flavor. Mostly because I don't think we need more than 2 terrains at a time, or just make it "all terrains" because I believe Rangers should be an all terrain character. But Roving and tireless go a long way for the Ranger. Also if we are tying Hunter's mark and Hex to those respective classes I really do not think they need to be made to NEED upcasting. I am not opposed to upcasting them providing more value though. This is why I am a proponent of upcasting losing the concentration.
Since they can change terrains with a long rest they technically do have all terrains, they just need time to get acclimated. I do agree gaining additional terrains at 9th is pointless since you can just switch them out already. 9th should just allow you to get acclimated on a short rest or like you said just give all terrains. I fear giving more expertise will make rogue players feel like you are stepping on their toes, but if reliable talent stays were it is in the UA giving rangers more expertise at 9th shouldn’t be a problem.
Ya my assumption was rogue gets printed as is. I haven't seen much negative response to that one except maybe wanting second rogue features a little earlier. But I would be cool with a short rest change as well. I just know the extra 2 aren't doing much, and I am also not a fan of Conjure Volley IN ADDITION to Conjure Barrage. Of the opinion that only one is really needed and could give Ranger something else cool in its place. Don't know what admittedly.