This seems to be a change for all classes that prepare spells. My question is: Why do you want to prepare a spell for which you have no spell slots? Maybe it's me that I'm misunderstanding it, but I don't see much sense in it. In addition to the fact that conceptually it is counterintuitive regarding character progress. Being a Bard, for example, level 1 can I prepare a lvl 9 spell? I'm not going to be able to cast it, of course, but it seems very weird to me that I can prepare it. Why can I do that?
On the other hand I have not seen anything regarding the rituals, although perhaps I have overlooked it. Can I cast lvl3 rituals as a lvl1 caster?
You still can't prepare spells of a level you don't have a spellslot for.
What they changed from a previous revision was mandating that the levels of prepared spells match your spell slots. Like if you had 3 level 3 spell slots, 3 of your prepared spells had to be level 3 spells. You weren't allowed to only prepare 1 level 3 spell so you could prepare more level 2 spells or whatever.
You prepare the list of spells of 1st level and higher that are available for you to cast with this feature. To start, choose four 1st-level spells from your Bard spell list. The number of spells on your list also increases as you gain Bard levels, as shown in the Prepared Spells column of the Bard table. Whenever that number increases, choose additional spells from your Bard spell list until the number of spells on your list matches the number on the table. The chosen spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots. For example, if you’re a 3rd-level Bard, your list of prepared spells can include six spells of 1st or 2nd level, in any combination. If another Bard feature gives spells that you always have prepared, those spells don’t count against the number of spells on the list you prepare with this Spellcasting feature, but those spells otherwise follow the rules in this feature.
See the bolded text.
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Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
This is one of my favorite changes in the current playtest release. I thought limiting what you could prepare from each spell level based on how many spell slots you had for that level was a dumb new limitation, and I'm glad to see it gone.
2024 PHB Sorcerer: "The chosen spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots. For example, if you’re a level 3 Sorcerer, your list of prepared spells can include six Sorcerer spells of level 1 or 2 in any combination."
When the description says "…in any combination…" does that mean my character (3rd level sorcerer), having 4 x 1st level and 2 x 2nd level spell slots, is allowed to have/prepare 5 x 2nd level spells and 1 x 1st level spell, though cast the single 1st level spell 4 times at first level and upcast once at 2nd level, then cast one of my 2nd level spells 1 time?
To be fair, at 2nd level the sorcerer can have 4 x1st level spells prepared, though only 3 x 1st level slots AND does not have a number of Spells Known as would a Wizard, but has number of innate spells known, learned and kept in memory through practice, not study. And should a 2nd level sorcerer become third level, is that sorcerer allowed to replace the spells previously known with most all new 2nd level spells from the list of sorcerer spells?
The rule as written appears ambiguous to me as to actually how this works. I would think that as the sorcerer 'grows' in their magic, they would retain what talents (spells) they discovered within themselves, and discover new talents (spells) upon attaining a new level, not losing nor exchanging the old—as defined for cantrips.
That's my thoughts on sorcerers. Does it work similarly for other spellcaster with the "…in any combination…" dictum?
2024 PHB Sorcerer: "The chosen spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots. For example, if you’re a level 3 Sorcerer, your list of prepared spells can include six Sorcerer spells of level 1 or 2 in any combination."
When the description says "…in any combination…" does that mean my character (3rd level sorcerer), having 4 x 1st level and 2 x 2nd level spell slots, is allowed to have/prepare 5 x 2nd level spells and 1 x 1st level spell, though cast the single 1st level spell 4 times at first level and upcast once at 2nd level, then cast one of my 2nd level spells 1 time?
Yes, that is exactly what "in any combination" means. How this works has not changed from the 2014 version.
To be fair, at 2nd level the sorcerer can have 4 x1st level spells prepared, though only 3 x 1st level slots AND does not have a number of Spells Known as would a Wizard, but has number of innate spells known, learned and kept in memory through practice, not study. And should a 2nd level sorcerer become third level, is that sorcerer allowed to replace the spells previously known with most all new 2nd level spells from the list of sorcerer spells?
You can replace one Sorcerer spell when you gain a level. This has always been the case in 5e; the 2024 update didn't change how this worked, just altered some of the terminology a little. Maybe you're confused about the use of the term "prepare"? This is being used for all spellcasters now, but each class defines a little differently when you can change which spells you have prepared. The actual mechanics of how that works have not changed except for Paladins and Rangers. It's just a different word being used.
The rule as written appears ambiguous to me as to actually how this works. I would think that as the sorcerer 'grows' in their magic, they would retain what talents (spells) they discovered within themselves, and discover new talents (spells) upon attaining a new level, not losing nor exchanging the old—as defined for cantrips.
Not really sure what you mean here. You don't lose anything when you gain a level. You have the option to replace one spell you know with a different one, but you don't have to. That's always been the case for 5e Sorcerers.
That's my thoughts on sorcerers. Does it work similarly for other spellcaster with the "…in any combination…" dictum?
Yes, that means the same thing for all spellcasters, and it always has.
"Not really sure what you mean here. You don't lose anything when you gain a level. You have the option to replace one spell you know with a different one, but you don't have to. That's always been the case for 5e Sorcerers."
What I mean by this is: My character gains a level (3rd level Sorcerer to 4th level), thus gains a 2nd level spell slot. In so doing the character exchanges a first level spell for a new 2nd level spell. Does that mean the character loses all the knowledge of how to cast that particular 1st level spell, even though you cn still 'prepare' 7 spells? (Rules as written, I would say yes, though it doesn't seem practical that the character should lose that memory.
"Not really sure what you mean here. You don't lose anything when you gain a level. You have the option to replace one spell you know with a different one, but you don't have to. That's always been the case for 5e Sorcerers."
What I mean by this is: My character gains a level (3rd level Sorcerer to 4th level), thus gains a 2nd level spell slot. In so doing the character exchanges a first level spell for a new 2nd level spell. Does that mean the character loses all the knowledge of how to cast that particular 1st level spell? (Rules as written, I would say yes, though it doesn't seem practical that the character should lose that memory.
Yes, if you swap out a spell when you gain a level, you lose access to that original spell. Again, you don't have to do this if you like all the spells you have. When going from level 3 to level 4 you also gain a new spell (going from 6 spells to 7) and you can choose either a first or second level spell as that new one.
Again, this is always how this has worked; this isn't a new thing in the 2024 update.
Thanks. Last D&D I played was v3. Never got to play v4 or the 2014 version of 5e. Restarted recently with 2024 PHB and DMG, so relearning everything. Much has changed since the eighties.
What I'm getting here is, let's say I have these many slots available: 3 level 1 slots, 2 level 2 slots and 1 level 3 slot (just pretending here) and I'm allowed to prepare 8 spells of level 1, 2 or 3 IN ANY COMBINATION. With this in mind, with having 8 First Level Spells prepared, I can cast 3 x 1st level spells at slot level 1, upcast 2 1st level spells at slot level 2, and upcast 1 x 1st level spell at slot level 3.
Conversely, my character could know only 2 x 1st level, 4 x 2nd level spells, and 1 x third level spell, then cast one of the 1st level spells twice at slot level 1, upcast the other 1st level spell at 3rd level (thus wasting the prepared third level spell as the slot is now gone, though the spell supposedly remains prepared), and cast 2 of my 4 prepared 2nd level spells at slot level 2.
That being said, (as I understand this) having a spell prepared does not mean that it must be cast, nor do you lose the prepared spell when it is cast because you can recast or upcast into any slot that is available. (True or not?)
If the above is true, then the new 2024 rules allow for more flexibility for learning, knowing, preparing and casting of spells, and with Ritual Spells not using spell slots, this allows Wizards to cast spells directly from their spell books, after preparation. (Can Sorcerers and Warlocks cast ritual spells?)
What I'm getting here is, let's say I have these many slots available: 3 level 1 slots, 2 level 2 slots and 1 level 3 slot (just pretending here) and I'm allowed to prepare 8 spells of level 1, 2 or 3 IN ANY COMBINATION. With this in mind, with having 8 First Level Spells prepared, I can cast 3 x 1st level spells at slot level 1, upcast 2 1st level spells at slot level 2, and upcast 1 x 1st level spell at slot level 3.
Conversely, my character could know only 2 x 1st level, 4 x 2nd level spells, and 1 x third level spell, then cast one of the 1st level spells twice last slot level 1, upcast the other 1st level spell at 3rd level (thus wasting the prepared third level spell as the slot is now gone, though the spell supposedly remains prepared), and cast 2 of my 4 prepared 2nd level spells at slot level 2.
If the above is true, then the new 2024 rules allow for more flexibility for learning, knowing, preparing and casting of spells, and with Ritual Spells not using spell slots, this allows Wizards to cast spells directly from their spell books, after preparation. (Can Sorcerers and Warlocks cast ritual spells?)
Yup, that all sounds correct. Bear in mind that Sorcerers can only change their prepared spells when they gain a level, and only one spell. Some other classes (Clerics, Druids, Wizards) can change any or all of their prepared spells on a long rest.
These mechanics are from the fifth edition Player’s Handbook released in 2014, but they are the same in the 2024 update.
Any spellcaster can use ritual casting with spells that have the “ritual” tag in their description. The spell generally has to be one they have prepared; Wizards are the exception to this, as they have a special feature that lets them use ritual casting with any ritual spell in their spellbook, even if it’s not currently prepared. Ritual casting takes ten minutes longer than the spell’s normal casting time.
This seems to be a change for all classes that prepare spells. My question is: Why do you want to prepare a spell for which you have no spell slots? Maybe it's me that I'm misunderstanding it, but I don't see much sense in it. In addition to the fact that conceptually it is counterintuitive regarding character progress. Being a Bard, for example, level 1 can I prepare a lvl 9 spell? I'm not going to be able to cast it, of course, but it seems very weird to me that I can prepare it. Why can I do that?
On the other hand I have not seen anything regarding the rituals, although perhaps I have overlooked it. Can I cast lvl3 rituals as a lvl1 caster?
You still can't prepare spells of a level you don't have a spellslot for.
What they changed from a previous revision was mandating that the levels of prepared spells match your spell slots. Like if you had 3 level 3 spell slots, 3 of your prepared spells had to be level 3 spells. You weren't allowed to only prepare 1 level 3 spell so you could prepare more level 2 spells or whatever.
From the Bard's Spellcasting feature:
See the bolded text.
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
Ah, ok. I misunderstood the note listing the changes. I thought it was not necessary to follow the spell slot levels, and I thought it was very weird.
This is one of my favorite changes in the current playtest release. I thought limiting what you could prepare from each spell level based on how many spell slots you had for that level was a dumb new limitation, and I'm glad to see it gone.
2024 PHB Sorcerer: "The chosen spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots. For example, if you’re a level 3 Sorcerer, your list of prepared spells can include six Sorcerer spells of level 1 or 2 in any combination."
When the description says "…in any combination…" does that mean my character (3rd level sorcerer), having 4 x 1st level and 2 x 2nd level spell slots, is allowed to have/prepare 5 x 2nd level spells and 1 x 1st level spell, though cast the single 1st level spell 4 times at first level and upcast once at 2nd level, then cast one of my 2nd level spells 1 time?
To be fair, at 2nd level the sorcerer can have 4 x1st level spells prepared, though only 3 x 1st level slots AND does not have a number of Spells Known as would a Wizard, but has number of innate spells known, learned and kept in memory through practice, not study. And should a 2nd level sorcerer become third level, is that sorcerer allowed to replace the spells previously known with most all new 2nd level spells from the list of sorcerer spells?
The rule as written appears ambiguous to me as to actually how this works. I would think that as the sorcerer 'grows' in their magic, they would retain what talents (spells) they discovered within themselves, and discover new talents (spells) upon attaining a new level, not losing nor exchanging the old—as defined for cantrips.
That's my thoughts on sorcerers. Does it work similarly for other spellcaster with the "…in any combination…" dictum?
Yes, that is exactly what "in any combination" means. How this works has not changed from the 2014 version.
You can replace one Sorcerer spell when you gain a level. This has always been the case in 5e; the 2024 update didn't change how this worked, just altered some of the terminology a little. Maybe you're confused about the use of the term "prepare"? This is being used for all spellcasters now, but each class defines a little differently when you can change which spells you have prepared. The actual mechanics of how that works have not changed except for Paladins and Rangers. It's just a different word being used.
Not really sure what you mean here. You don't lose anything when you gain a level. You have the option to replace one spell you know with a different one, but you don't have to. That's always been the case for 5e Sorcerers.
Yes, that means the same thing for all spellcasters, and it always has.
pronouns: he/she/they
Thanks for all your feedback. Much appreciated.
"Not really sure what you mean here. You don't lose anything when you gain a level. You have the option to replace one spell you know with a different one, but you don't have to. That's always been the case for 5e Sorcerers."
What I mean by this is: My character gains a level (3rd level Sorcerer to 4th level), thus gains a 2nd level spell slot. In so doing the character exchanges a first level spell for a new 2nd level spell. Does that mean the character loses all the knowledge of how to cast that particular 1st level spell, even though you cn still 'prepare' 7 spells? (Rules as written, I would say yes, though it doesn't seem practical that the character should lose that memory.
Yes, if you swap out a spell when you gain a level, you lose access to that original spell. Again, you don't have to do this if you like all the spells you have. When going from level 3 to level 4 you also gain a new spell (going from 6 spells to 7) and you can choose either a first or second level spell as that new one.
Again, this is always how this has worked; this isn't a new thing in the 2024 update.
pronouns: he/she/they
Thanks. Last D&D I played was v3. Never got to play v4 or the 2014 version of 5e. Restarted recently with 2024 PHB and DMG, so relearning everything. Much has changed since the eighties.
What I'm getting here is, let's say I have these many slots available: 3 level 1 slots, 2 level 2 slots and 1 level 3 slot (just pretending here) and I'm allowed to prepare 8 spells of level 1, 2 or 3 IN ANY COMBINATION. With this in mind, with having 8 First Level Spells prepared, I can cast 3 x 1st level spells at slot level 1, upcast 2 1st level spells at slot level 2, and upcast 1 x 1st level spell at slot level 3.
Conversely, my character could know only 2 x 1st level, 4 x 2nd level spells, and 1 x third level spell, then cast one of the 1st level spells twice at slot level 1, upcast the other 1st level spell at 3rd level (thus wasting the prepared third level spell as the slot is now gone, though the spell supposedly remains prepared), and cast 2 of my 4 prepared 2nd level spells at slot level 2.
That being said, (as I understand this) having a spell prepared does not mean that it must be cast, nor do you lose the prepared spell when it is cast because you can recast or upcast into any slot that is available. (True or not?)
If the above is true, then the new 2024 rules allow for more flexibility for learning, knowing, preparing and casting of spells, and with Ritual Spells not using spell slots, this allows Wizards to cast spells directly from their spell books, after preparation. (Can Sorcerers and Warlocks cast ritual spells?)
Yup, that all sounds correct. Bear in mind that Sorcerers can only change their prepared spells when they gain a level, and only one spell. Some other classes (Clerics, Druids, Wizards) can change any or all of their prepared spells on a long rest.
These mechanics are from the fifth edition Player’s Handbook released in 2014, but they are the same in the 2024 update.
Any spellcaster can use ritual casting with spells that have the “ritual” tag in their description. The spell generally has to be one they have prepared; Wizards are the exception to this, as they have a special feature that lets them use ritual casting with any ritual spell in their spellbook, even if it’s not currently prepared. Ritual casting takes ten minutes longer than the spell’s normal casting time.
pronouns: he/she/they
Thanks. Explains a lot.