But why the assumption that every ranger should always be using Hunter's Mark at all times? Hunter's Mark is a perfectly fine base choice for Ranger but it isn't and shouldn't be the only thing they do in combat - otherwise they should just go play a Fighter not a Ranger. Ensnaring Strike is awesome and super thematic for Rangers and it makes be sad that I have never, ever seen a Ranger use it in combat.
Why the assumption that every barbarian must always be using rage at all times?
Rage is a core feature of Barbarian and a majority of their class features are based on it and build upon it and there is no other way to get Rage than to be a Barbarian.
Hunter's Mark is one spell of out of hundreds, it's not even the only Ranger-specific spell, there are half a dozen ranger-specific spells. Since it's a 1st level spell any character in the game can pick up Hunter's Mark from Magic Initiate (as a background feat) or from Fey Touched. If Hunter's Mark is the class defining ability of Ranger that's pretty sad, cause in 2024 DnD I'd be more inclined to pick it up with Magic Initiate on a Monk (along side Shillelagh) as it is much more potent for a Monk to use Hunter's Mark than a Ranger.
Listening to their Ranger reveal a lot of the class is based around hunters mark, all the way up to their capstone. So yeah it sounds class defining now. I'm sure you can ignore it but that means you ignore like 1/4 of your class abilities.
That was a very poor design choice by WotC. I don't understand their push to make everything a spell, when there are so many ways for characters to pick up spells other than through their class. It's like in the UA where they tried to make the warlock pact boons into cantrips, which just would have allowed any character to pick them up using Magic Initiate. It's the same with Hunter's Mark. A spell is not a class feature, spells are never class-specific because Magical Secrets exists and Magic Initiate exists. If Hunter's Mark is class defining then the Vengeance Paladin is also a Ranger because they get Hunter's Mark on their extended spell list. The improvements to hunter's mark don't come until after level 10 (which many groups don't play) and are pretty minor. Even if they make Hunter's Mark scale with spell level, that doesn't help Ranger be unique because as a half-caster they have much more limited ability to up cast it than other classes. E.g. a Valor Bard will be better at using Hunter's Mark than a Ranger.
I HATE that they've based multiple core class features around a single spell, and one that requires Concentration given how many good spells on the Ranger list also require it.
But why the assumption that every ranger should always be using Hunter's Mark at all times? Hunter's Mark is a perfectly fine base choice for Ranger but it isn't and shouldn't be the only thing they do in combat - otherwise they should just go play a Fighter not a Ranger. Ensnaring Strike is awesome and super thematic for Rangers and it makes be sad that I have never, ever seen a Ranger use it in combat.
Why the assumption that every barbarian must always be using rage at all times?
Rage is a core feature of Barbarian and a majority of their class features are based on it and build upon it and there is no other way to get Rage than to be a Barbarian.
Hunter's Mark is one spell of out of hundreds, it's not even the only Ranger-specific spell, there are half a dozen ranger-specific spells. Since it's a 1st level spell any character in the game can pick up Hunter's Mark from Magic Initiate (as a background feat) or from Fey Touched. If Hunter's Mark is the class defining ability of Ranger that's pretty sad, cause in 2024 DnD I'd be more inclined to pick it up with Magic Initiate on a Monk (along side Shillelagh) as it is much more potent for a Monk to use Hunter's Mark than a Ranger.
Listening to their Ranger reveal a lot of the class is based around hunters mark, all the way up to their capstone. So yeah it sounds class defining now. I'm sure you can ignore it but that means you ignore like 1/4 of your class abilities.
Here's another thing to consider: If Ranger is all about Hunter's Mark, then how is it better than Warlock?
Warlock gets Hex which does much of the same things as Hunter's Mark -> choose to give them Disadvantage on Dexterity checks (thus Stealth) and that pretty well mirrors Hunter's Mark's advantage on Wisdom checks to find/track them, and they pretty much deal the same damage on a hit.
At 17th level, sure the Ranger has advantage on attacks against the target of their Hunter's Mark, but the Warlock is making 4 ranged attacks vs the Ranger's 2. At 20th level sure the Ranger's Hunter's Mark goes up to a d10, but a Pact of the Blade Warlock can have Life Drinker from level 11 to be dealing 2d6 extra damage on each hit. Oh Ranger can go invisible at level 7 with their Hide in Plain sight? Well Warlock can go invisible using Invisibility or Greater Invisibility earlier or at the same level.
It shouldn't be better than Warlock. The problem is, it should also not be worse than Warlock. For all my complaints about the new Warlock design porting forward the flaws of the 2014 Warlock, the 2014 Warlock is still a better spell caster than the ranger. That's not so much a problem, but the 2024 warlock is also a better martial than the ranger.
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Hunter's Mark is fine. No other class in the game can get as much damage as they can out of a 1st-level slot; Hex might behave similarly, but has the massive tradeoff of not scaling in damage past first level and thus not being an optimal use for your pact slots past low levels unless you are able to unleash a barrage of attacks.
The only thing I think is underwhelming is the capstone as it adds a mere ~2 DPR per hit. The Capstone is when we should blow the roof off and get crazy - that would be a good place to take the concentration requirement off of HM so that we can do shenanigans like HM + Swift Quiver.
Exactly, The rest of the ranger class is fine, but the Capstone is underwhelming compared to any other class and on its own. The upgrades to HM are great, but makes the class feel constrained to use any other spell in combat unless the benefits are overwhelming in that situation.
And the bad taste with the class is that Hunters Mark is a spell with concentration, instead of a Feature like Second Wind, Sneak attack/cunning action, Rage, and is more constrained than even Smite for Paladins (That you will use constantly and paired with other concentration spells).
But why the assumption that every ranger should always be using Hunter's Mark at all times? Hunter's Mark is a perfectly fine base choice for Ranger but it isn't and shouldn't be the only thing they do in combat - otherwise they should just go play a Fighter not a Ranger. Ensnaring Strike is awesome and super thematic for Rangers and it makes be sad that I have never, ever seen a Ranger use it in combat.
Why the assumption that every barbarian must always be using rage at all times?
Rage is a core feature of Barbarian and a majority of their class features are based on it and build upon it and there is no other way to get Rage than to be a Barbarian.
Hunter's Mark is one spell of out of hundreds, it's not even the only Ranger-specific spell, there are half a dozen ranger-specific spells. Since it's a 1st level spell any character in the game can pick up Hunter's Mark from Magic Initiate (as a background feat) or from Fey Touched. If Hunter's Mark is the class defining ability of Ranger that's pretty sad, cause in 2024 DnD I'd be more inclined to pick it up with Magic Initiate on a Monk (along side Shillelagh) as it is much more potent for a Monk to use Hunter's Mark than a Ranger.
Listening to their Ranger reveal a lot of the class is based around hunters mark, all the way up to their capstone. So yeah it sounds class defining now. I'm sure you can ignore it but that means you ignore like 1/4 of your class abilities.
Here's another thing to consider: If Ranger is all about Hunter's Mark, then how is it better than Warlock?
Warlock gets Hex which does much of the same things as Hunter's Mark -> choose to give them Disadvantage on Dexterity checks (thus Stealth) and that pretty well mirrors Hunter's Mark's advantage on Wisdom checks to find/track them, and they pretty much deal the same damage on a hit.
At 17th level, sure the Ranger has advantage on attacks against the target of their Hunter's Mark, but the Warlock is making 4 ranged attacks vs the Ranger's 2. At 20th level sure the Ranger's Hunter's Mark goes up to a d10, but a Pact of the Blade Warlock can have Life Drinker from level 11 to be dealing 2d6 extra damage on each hit. Oh Ranger can go invisible at level 7 with their Hide in Plain sight? Well Warlock can go invisible using Invisibility or Greater Invisibility earlier or at the same level.
Warlocks have a similar issue just not as profound as only one sub class feature is tied to it and some optional invocations. It is unfortunate that something so thematically appropriate for the warlock will generally be dropped off at level 5. But as very little of their mechanics are around it, and their spells scale fast enough they dip out quick its not as bad. Ideally in both cases either they would not be spells or if spells they would get a class feature at a high enough level its not something you dip that changes how it works for them, like no concentration or can concentrate on this and one other spell, and in the warlocks case probably design it in a way that acknowledges its on a short rest class.
Warlocks have a similar issue just not as profound as only one sub class feature is tied to it and some optional invocations. It is unfortunate that something so thematically appropriate for the warlock will generally be dropped off at level 5.
Is it that thematically appropriate for warlock? I always found it rather boring & generic, it felt more hag-ish than warlock-y. Hunger of Hadar has always felt more like the iconic Warlock-y forbidden magic type thing (I hope they gave it scaling in PHB2024). Armour of Agathys, Arms of Hadar, and Hellish Rebuke are just as warlock-y as Hex is on a thematic level. Ray of Enfeeblement is more hex-y than Hex, as is Crown of Madness.
At higher levels Spirit Shroud, Shadow of Moil, Summoning devils/demons/undead, Contact Other Planes, Enervation, are all super warlock-y more so than boring old Hex. I even find Thunderstep can be more warlock-y if you reflavour it to something other than thunder - and explosion of flame for a devil pact, burst of psychic energy for a GOO, a swirling cape for a Feylock....
Why would you want a character that casts the same spell every combat for every level from 1-20. Part of the fun of casters is how your play-style changes as you get newer cooler spells.
I have the same problem with Ranger. Why is Hunter's Mark more "Ranger-y" than spells like:
ensnaring strike, hail of thorns, zephyr strike, cordon of arrows, pass without trace, summon beast, flame/lightning arrows, guardian of nature, swift quiver, or steel wind strike
Sure on the optimization/gameplay side Hunter's Mark is easier to use and often more effective in combat, but in terms of theme, is it really the be-all and end-all of ranger-ness?
That is something I am not fond of with the ranger in general, the reliance on hunter's mark. To me, that's more of a 4e avenger thing, or even an assassin thing. On the ranger, it feels more like they threw up their hands and said, "dude, I don't know..."
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Warlocks have a similar issue just not as profound as only one sub class feature is tied to it and some optional invocations. It is unfortunate that something so thematically appropriate for the warlock will generally be dropped off at level 5.
Is it that thematically appropriate for warlock? I always found it rather boring & generic, it felt more hag-ish than warlock-y. Hunger of Hadar has always felt more like the iconic Warlock-y forbidden magic type thing (I hope they gave it scaling in PHB2024). Armour of Agathys, Arms of Hadar, and Hellish Rebuke are just as warlock-y as Hex is on a thematic level. Ray of Enfeeblement is more hex-y than Hex, as is Crown of Madness.
At higher levels Spirit Shroud, Shadow of Moil, Summoning devils/demons/undead, Contact Other Planes, Enervation, are all super warlock-y more so than boring old Hex. I even find Thunderstep can be more warlock-y if you reflavour it to something other than thunder - and explosion of flame for a devil pact, burst of psychic energy for a GOO, a swirling cape for a Feylock....
Why would you want a character that casts the same spell every combat for every level from 1-20. Part of the fun of casters is how your play-style changes as you get newer cooler spells.
Yes cursing people seems very warlock like. Not saying hex is the best curse like effect out there, it is pretty boring, but it is pretty much the only one they gave them due to short rest concerns and bestow curse. As for casting the same spell well that is part of pact magic in that your spells level with you and hex was maybe the only spell they made for the warlock that really took advantage of it. I'd of preferred it kept a hour duration and kept increasing its debilitating effects for its upscaling but we did not get that.
I think I would have preferred HM to stay a class feature (edit: like the Expert UA). And similar to the one Paladin ability (forget which one) where you can mark your target when you hit them with an attack.
Even as a spell it feels like it could have used more buffs through various levels, especially the capstone. But I wonder if WotC held back so if you decided to use a different concentration spell it didn’t hurt so bad. But neither way feels satisfying.
Hunter's Mark should be what it is: a First Level Ranger Spell that takes a bonus action & concentration & scales up in damage with spell level. It should NOT be in the Ranger class features at all.
Instead, the Ranger should have features like a good version of Primeval Awareness, that allows them to radar ping enemy positions several times a day. Again, as a feature, not a spell or spell slot.
They should have specialized Ranger attacks, like Sniper Shot, Whirlwind strike, Blade flourish, and Arrow Barrage. Again... not as spells. As class features that can be used from a limited resource pool per day.
They should have defensive features like poison resistance, advantage vs poisoned condition, and elemental resistances. Perhaps Evasion as a mid to high level feature (to not cheapen the Rogue or monk).
They should have a non-spell healing feature that involves a Healers Kit or Herbalism Kit. Something like a limited number of times per day, for a modest d10+ Wis mod... or something like that.
And then they should have the Expertise boosts to skills and the movement speed boost w climb & swim (but also include ignoring difficult terrain) and temp Hp thing.
Capstone could be some kind of damage boost. Or just a +4 to Wis & Dex (nobody's gonna say no to that). Idk if any or all of this is viable. Maybe it's too much. Or maybe not thematic enough. I just know that what they gave us appears to be them copying somebody else's homework version of Tasha's. Tashas was better than 2014. But its not good enough for 2024. They phoned this one in.
Basing 13th, 17th and 20th level features off of a first level concentration spell is terrible design. I think they were rushed to meet the deadline. When are you ever casting 1st level spells in combat at these levels? Sorry ranger fans, I feel for you. Time to come up with some home brew.
Instead, the Ranger should have features like a good version of Primeval Awareness, that allows them to radar ping enemy positions several times a day. Again, as a feature, not a spell or spell slot.
Unless you mean Blindsight or some other precise sense this just isn't useful. Simply knowing there are enemies around and where they're standing is not a good ability. You know what else lets you know that, the Perception skill.
They should have specialized Ranger attacks, like Sniper Shot, Whirlwind strike, Blade flourish, and Arrow Barrage. Again... not as spells. As class features that can be used from a limited resource pool per day.
What exactly is wrong with these being Ranger spells though? They fixed the issue of Bards being able to poach them early, so what's left? Having them be spells declutters the class table and means they can be as detailed as they need to be with things like melee vs ranged, scaling damage with slot level, activation action etc.
They should have defensive features like poison resistance, advantage vs poisoned condition, and elemental resistances. Perhaps Evasion as a mid to high level feature (to not cheapen the Rogue or monk).
They should have a non-spell healing feature that involves a Healers Kit or Herbalism Kit. Something like a limited number of times per day, for a modest d10+ Wis mod... or something like that.
There are already rules for crafting healing potions with herbalism kits in Xanathar's (XGtE pg 130.) And Healer is a background feat now, so if you want your Ranger to be a mundane healer with kits that badly instead of using their actual magic for some reason, it's easy to do.
And then they should have the Expertise boosts to skills and the movement speed boost w climb & swim (but also include ignoring difficult terrain) and temp Hp thing.
They got all this.
I agree the capstone needs work. But all the rest of it is either things they already have or things that are just vague or outright bad.
The spellcasting buffs alone puts 2024 Ranger way ahead of Tasha Ranger.
Hunter's Mark should be what it is: a First Level Ranger Spell that takes a bonus action & concentration & scales up in damage with spell level. It should NOT be in the Ranger class features at all.
Instead, the Ranger should have features like a good version of Primeval Awareness, that allows them to radar ping enemy positions several times a day. Again, as a feature, not a spell or spell slot.
They should have specialized Ranger attacks, like Sniper Shot, Whirlwind strike, Blade flourish, and Arrow Barrage. Again... not as spells. As class features that can be used from a limited resource pool per day.
They should have defensive features like poison resistance, advantage vs poisoned condition, and elemental resistances. Perhaps Evasion as a mid to high level feature (to not cheapen the Rogue or monk).
They should have a non-spell healing feature that involves a Healers Kit or Herbalism Kit. Something like a limited number of times per day, for a modest d10+ Wis mod... or something like that.
And then they should have the Expertise boosts to skills and the movement speed boost w climb & swim (but also include ignoring difficult terrain) and temp Hp thing.
Capstone could be some kind of damage boost. Or just a +4 to Wis & Dex (nobody's gonna say no to that). Idk if any or all of this is viable. Maybe it's too much. Or maybe not thematic enough. I just know that what they gave us appears to be them copying somebody else's homework version of Tasha's. Tashas was better than 2014. But its not good enough for 2024. They phoned this one in.
Yeah, it's not that hard to design a better ranger:
Primeval Awareness 1st level
As an action, you can open your senses and notice changes in the air, or terrain that reveal the presence of different types of creatures. You can determine which of the following types of creatures are present within a 1 mile radius of you: aberrations, beasts, constructs, monstrosities, elementals, dragons, giants, undead, oozes, fey, plant, humanoid, celestial (you can exclude specific creatures that you know of from this search). You do not learn their location, or specific identity. If you spend a second use of this feature, you can learn the number of creatures of one of these types that are present in this radius.
Alternatively, you can expend one use of this feature to learn the creature type, vulnerabilities, resistances, and immunities of one creature you can see within 500 ft of you that is not behind cover nor obscured.
You can use this ability a number of times equal to your proficiency bonus, you regain all uses when you finish a long rest.
Expertise -1st level - You gain Expertise in 1 skill of your choice.
Weapon Mastery & Fighting Style - 2nd level
Natural Explorer 3rd level
You gain a climb speed and a swim speed equal to your walking speed, you are unaffected by difficult terrain.
When traveling in hostile terrain, you and your party can move at half their normal travel speed and avoid any negative effects of that hostile terrain - e.g. they do not suffer from extreme cold when travelling in artic terrain. In addition, your party has advantage on Stealth check to remain hidden while travelling. You are unaffected by the negative effects of the hostile terrain even when moving at normal speed.
Experienced Tracker 6th level
When you use your Primeval Awareness to sense the presence of creatures, you also learn the direction to the closest member of each creature type that you sensed relative to your current position. In addition, you have advantage on Wisdom skill checks to spot or track them, as well as on Intelligence check to recall information about them for the next hour.
Exploit Weakness 6th level
When you use your Primeval Awareness to identify resistances, immunities and vulnerabilities of a creature, as part of that action you can change the damage-type of any weapons you are holding or carrying to the damage type the creature is weakest to - this includes silvered/adamantine weapon damage if they have that vulnerability. If your weapon deals multiple damage types all the damage is converted to the new damage type. This change lasts for 10 minutes or until you dismiss it (no action required) or until you use this ability again.
Land's Strider 8th level
You walking speed increases by 10 ft, and you have advantage on Strength, and Dexterity saving throws.
Natural Medicine 9th level
You have resistance to poison damage. As a bonus action, you can use a Herbalism kit to cure yourself or one creature within 5ft of you of the poisoned condition, or restore 2d10+your Wisdom modifier hit points to them. Once a creature has benefited from this ability, it cannot benefit again until it finished a short or long rest.
Know your Enemy 10th level
While you are under the effects of Exploit Weakness you deal an additional 1d10 damage with your weapons. While you are tracking a creature using your Experienced Tracker feature, you are hidden from the creature you are tracking until you make an attack or cast a spell that targets that creature. You cannot be frightened by any creature you have sensed or identified using your Primeval Awareness.
Hide in Plain Sight 13th level
You can take the Hide action as a bonus action on your turn, and you can Hide even if you are only lightly obscured. You and your party cannot be tracked unless you choose to leave a trail.
Feral Senses 14th level
You gain 30 ft blindsight, you have advantage on initiative rolls if a hostile creature is within this radius.
Skirmisher Stealth 17th level
When you use your Hide in Plain Sight to Hide as a Bonus Action, you can move up to half your speed as part of this action. In addition, when you make an attack with a weapon while hidden, you don't reveal your location if the attack misses.
Pin Point Precision 18th level
Once on each of your turns, you can reroll an attack roll or a damage roll and keep the higher result. Any bonuses or penalties still apply to the new roll, e.g. if you had disadvantage on the first roll, you still have disadvantage on the reroll.
Wild Mastery 20th level
Increase your Wisdom and one other ability score of your choice by +2, this also increases the maximum for those scores by 2
Yeah, it's not that hard to design a better ranger:
Were you going to attempt that at some point? ...Wait, was that it?
A bunch of these "features" just lead to what I've seen called the "air-breathing mermaid" problem - they create problems for other classes that the DM might not have even considered just by their very existence. Like the "you and the party can travel through the arctic without being cold" ability - do you really need a ranger for that? Can't everyone just wear warm clothes?
Why can't I use a skill check to determine what kinds of creatures might be in the area? Oh I can? Then why is this a whole class feature?
Of the features you listed, the only one I thought was decent was Wild Mastery, which was just copy-pasted from Monk anyway.
Yeah, it's not that hard to design a better ranger:
Were you going to attempt that at some point? ...Wait, was that it?
A bunch of these "features" just lead to what I've seen called the "air-breathing mermaid" problem - they create problems for other classes that the DM might not have even considered just by their very existence. Like the "you and the party can travel through the arctic without being cold" ability - do you really need a ranger for that? Can't everyone just wear warm clothes?
Why can't I use a skill check to determine what kinds of creatures might be in the area? Oh I can? Then why is this a whole class feature?
Of the features you listed, the only one I thought was decent was Wild Mastery, which was just copy-pasted from Monk anyway.
Oh sorry, I was making that for people who want the Ranger to be a Ranger not a fighter with some green paint on it. Here's a "Ranger" for you:
Hunter's Prey - 1st level
When you hit a creature with a weapon attack, you can mark it as your prey. Your attacks, including the triggering attack, deal an addition 1d6 damage of the same type as your weapon to the target. This effect ends after 1 minute or if you mark a different creature as your prey.
This damage increases when you reach higher levels of this class to 2d6 at 10th level, and 3d6 at 18th level.
Expertise - 1st level - You gain expertise in 4 skills of your choice.
Fighting Style & Weapon Mastery2nd level
Crippling Mark - 6th level
When you mark a creature, you can impose one of the following conditions on it: Poisoned, Frightened, Charmed, Dazed. This condition lasts until the end of their next turn. Once you have used this feature on a creature it is immune to this ability for 8 hours.
Flurry of Strikes - 8th level
As an action, you can make a number of attacks equal to your proficiency bonus. Each attack must target a different creature that is within range of your weapon. Once you have used this feature you can't use it again until you have finished a short or long rest.
Vanish - 9th level
You can use a Bonus Action to become invisible until the end of your next turn. You can use this ability a number of time equal to your Wisdom modifier. You can regain 1 use of this feature by expending a spellslot (no action required).
Extra Attack 2 - 10th level
You can make 3 attacks whenever you take the Attack action.
Combat Spells - 14th level
You learn all of the Paladin spells with the word "Smite" in them, and all Ranger-specific spells, and always have them prepared. You can use these spells with both ranged and melee attacks even if the spell specifies only one.
Wild Mastery - 20th level
Increase your Wisdom and one other ability score of your choice by +2, this also increases the maximum for those scores by 2
Yeah, it's not that hard to design a better ranger:
Were you going to attempt that at some point? ...Wait, was that it?
A bunch of these "features" just lead to what I've seen called the "air-breathing mermaid" problem - they create problems for other classes that the DM might not have even considered just by their very existence. Like the "you and the party can travel through the arctic without being cold" ability - do you really need a ranger for that? Can't everyone just wear warm clothes?
Why can't I use a skill check to determine what kinds of creatures might be in the area? Oh I can? Then why is this a whole class feature?
Of the features you listed, the only one I thought was decent was Wild Mastery, which was just copy-pasted from Monk anyway.
since dnd is an "exceptions based game" and skill results are determined by the dm.......... even "redundant" ability checks have value. some creatures are immune to divination or have taken specific actions to hide their presence. However a 2014 ranger can quickly narrow down "false flag options" (thinking its a daemon instead of undead) or remove " dm Player dissonance". (players Expecting checks instead of equipment dm wants players to purchase or penalty)
understanding fixed vs variable elements of skills really make a diffrence. Hence double foraging is more reliable of a feature than hoping a good skill check will get good results.
since dnd is an "exceptions based game" and skill results are determined by the dm.......... even "redundant" ability checks have value. some creatures are immune to divination or have taken specific actions to hide their presence. However a 2014 ranger can quickly narrow down "false flag options" (thinking its a daemon instead of undead) or remove " dm Player dissonance". (players Expecting checks instead of equipment dm wants players to purchase or penalty)
understanding fixed vs variable elements of skills really make a diffrence. Hence double foraging is more reliable of a feature than hoping a good skill check will get good results.
Skill checks aren't divinations, and whether they beat "specific actions to hide presence" is up to the DM. Presumably if the DM doesn't want a monster found with magic or skill checks then a random homebrew feature wouldn't work either, not that I would endorse that style of DMing to begin with. Everything in the game should have some form of counterplay, even if it's difficult or impractical to pull off.
But an entire class feature that mimics something a skill check can do is a waste in my eyes. I'd rather the table be encouraged to engage with the skill system that constantly try designing wordy coupons to bypass it.
A bunch of these "features" just lead to what I've seen called the "air-breathing mermaid" problem - they create problems for other classes that the DM might not have even considered just by their very existence. Like the "you and the party can travel through the arctic without being cold" ability - do you really need a ranger for that? Can't everyone just wear warm clothes?
I agree with this but I still think there is an issue with the way Hunter's Mark is being pushed too. I think Ranger could simply get enhancements to normal activities. So instead of they know the location of, it's a:
"you can add your proficiency bonus to any attempt to track a creature or to determine the age of any tracks it has left behind. This bonus applies to checks which are already benefiting from proficiency or expertise."
Not suggesting this one, just an example of how it could be written in such a way that a DM isn't going to assume other classes thus can't do this. Personally not going to make those types of suggestions since Ranger is not a class that overly interests me and thus I can't really recommend what 'flavour' it should really have.
Jumping back to Hunter's Mark, I have in other threads made this point with regards to Paladin's Smites too, but when something is meant to be a core feature like Hunter's Mark, even if it's powered by spell slots, it should remain a feature and not be a spell. I think hunter's mark in the latest iteration being pushed as a core feature in the way it is, is negative to the Ranger class.
How I think Hunter's Mark should work is probably re-adjusting it downwards but making it a proper feature instead of a spell.
Level 1, You gain the Ranger's Hunter's Mark, when you hit the target of your hunter's mark you can apply 1d4 force damage once per round. When tracking the current target of your hunter's mark, you gain advantage on any Wisdom (Perception) or Wisdom (Survival) checks you make to find it. You can apply hunter's mark to a creature when hitting it with an attack or by using your bonus action to apply to a creature you can see, you can not re-assign your hunter's mark if it is currently on another target and you have utilized any feature of your hunter's mark within the past 10 minutes. You hunter's mark expires if the creature is reduced to 0HP or if you have not seen the creature within the past 8 hours.
Level 5, you can spend 1 minute to cast locate creature as a ritual but it can only locate the current target of your hunter's mark and it's duration is reduced to 1 minute, when locate creature is cast in this way, you can not cast it again in this method until you have completed a short or long rest.
Level 9, your hunter's mark now adds 1d6 damage instead of 1d4.
Level 13, you gain hunter's reaction which you can use a number of times equal to your wisdom modifier, per long rest. The hunter's reaction allows you to take a reaction to apply advantage to an allies attack, if that attack directly targets current target of your hunter's mark and affects no other creature. You can alternatively use your hunter's reaction to apply disadvantage to any saving throws made by the current target of your hunter's marks as a reaction.
Level 17, your hunter's mark now adds 1d8 damage instead of 1d4. Get advantage on attack rolls against the current target of your hunter's mark.
Level 20, your hunter's mark now adds 1d10 damage instead of 1d4. When you score a critical hit against the current target of your hunter's mark, you deal an additional damage 1d10 force damage as part of the critical hit, this damage is not doubled.
I think this makes a much more balanced hunter's mark and keeps it as a feature you'd want to keep using, while being able to make up the lost damage by utilizing spells like Zephyr Strike, Summon Beast, Spike Growth or Flame Arrows. Of course people are free to disagree with me on that one, it's just my suggestion on what is more inline with where Hunter's Mark should have gone, if it was to be promoted into being such a core feature of the Ranger class.
I HATE that they've based multiple core class features around a single spell, and one that requires Concentration given how many good spells on the Ranger list also require it.
Here's another thing to consider: If Ranger is all about Hunter's Mark, then how is it better than Warlock?
Warlock gets Hex which does much of the same things as Hunter's Mark -> choose to give them Disadvantage on Dexterity checks (thus Stealth) and that pretty well mirrors Hunter's Mark's advantage on Wisdom checks to find/track them, and they pretty much deal the same damage on a hit.
At 17th level, sure the Ranger has advantage on attacks against the target of their Hunter's Mark, but the Warlock is making 4 ranged attacks vs the Ranger's 2. At 20th level sure the Ranger's Hunter's Mark goes up to a d10, but a Pact of the Blade Warlock can have Life Drinker from level 11 to be dealing 2d6 extra damage on each hit. Oh Ranger can go invisible at level 7 with their Hide in Plain sight? Well Warlock can go invisible using Invisibility or Greater Invisibility earlier or at the same level.
It shouldn't be better than Warlock. The problem is, it should also not be worse than Warlock. For all my complaints about the new Warlock design porting forward the flaws of the 2014 Warlock, the 2014 Warlock is still a better spell caster than the ranger. That's not so much a problem, but the 2024 warlock is also a better martial than the ranger.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Hunter's Mark is fine. No other class in the game can get as much damage as they can out of a 1st-level slot; Hex might behave similarly, but has the massive tradeoff of not scaling in damage past first level and thus not being an optimal use for your pact slots past low levels unless you are able to unleash a barrage of attacks.
The only thing I think is underwhelming is the capstone as it adds a mere ~2 DPR per hit. The Capstone is when we should blow the roof off and get crazy - that would be a good place to take the concentration requirement off of HM so that we can do shenanigans like HM + Swift Quiver.
Exactly,
The rest of the ranger class is fine, but the Capstone is underwhelming compared to any other class and on its own.
The upgrades to HM are great, but makes the class feel constrained to use any other spell in combat unless the benefits are overwhelming in that situation.
And the bad taste with the class is that Hunters Mark is a spell with concentration, instead of a Feature like Second Wind, Sneak attack/cunning action, Rage, and is more constrained than even Smite for Paladins (That you will use constantly and paired with other concentration spells).
Warlocks have a similar issue just not as profound as only one sub class feature is tied to it and some optional invocations. It is unfortunate that something so thematically appropriate for the warlock will generally be dropped off at level 5. But as very little of their mechanics are around it, and their spells scale fast enough they dip out quick its not as bad. Ideally in both cases either they would not be spells or if spells they would get a class feature at a high enough level its not something you dip that changes how it works for them, like no concentration or can concentrate on this and one other spell, and in the warlocks case probably design it in a way that acknowledges its on a short rest class.
Is it that thematically appropriate for warlock? I always found it rather boring & generic, it felt more hag-ish than warlock-y. Hunger of Hadar has always felt more like the iconic Warlock-y forbidden magic type thing (I hope they gave it scaling in PHB2024). Armour of Agathys, Arms of Hadar, and Hellish Rebuke are just as warlock-y as Hex is on a thematic level. Ray of Enfeeblement is more hex-y than Hex, as is Crown of Madness.
At higher levels Spirit Shroud, Shadow of Moil, Summoning devils/demons/undead, Contact Other Planes, Enervation, are all super warlock-y more so than boring old Hex. I even find Thunderstep can be more warlock-y if you reflavour it to something other than thunder - and explosion of flame for a devil pact, burst of psychic energy for a GOO, a swirling cape for a Feylock....
Why would you want a character that casts the same spell every combat for every level from 1-20. Part of the fun of casters is how your play-style changes as you get newer cooler spells.
I have the same problem with Ranger. Why is Hunter's Mark more "Ranger-y" than spells like:
ensnaring strike, hail of thorns, zephyr strike, cordon of arrows, pass without trace, summon beast, flame/lightning arrows, guardian of nature, swift quiver, or steel wind strike
Sure on the optimization/gameplay side Hunter's Mark is easier to use and often more effective in combat, but in terms of theme, is it really the be-all and end-all of ranger-ness?
That is something I am not fond of with the ranger in general, the reliance on hunter's mark. To me, that's more of a 4e avenger thing, or even an assassin thing. On the ranger, it feels more like they threw up their hands and said, "dude, I don't know..."
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Yes cursing people seems very warlock like. Not saying hex is the best curse like effect out there, it is pretty boring, but it is pretty much the only one they gave them due to short rest concerns and bestow curse. As for casting the same spell well that is part of pact magic in that your spells level with you and hex was maybe the only spell they made for the warlock that really took advantage of it. I'd of preferred it kept a hour duration and kept increasing its debilitating effects for its upscaling but we did not get that.
I think I would have preferred HM to stay a class feature (edit: like the Expert UA). And similar to the one Paladin ability (forget which one) where you can mark your target when you hit them with an attack.
Even as a spell it feels like it could have used more buffs through various levels, especially the capstone. But I wonder if WotC held back so if you decided to use a different concentration spell it didn’t hurt so bad. But neither way feels satisfying.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
Hunter's Mark should be what it is: a First Level Ranger Spell that takes a bonus action & concentration & scales up in damage with spell level. It should NOT be in the Ranger class features at all.
Instead, the Ranger should have features like a good version of Primeval Awareness, that allows them to radar ping enemy positions several times a day. Again, as a feature, not a spell or spell slot.
They should have specialized Ranger attacks, like Sniper Shot, Whirlwind strike, Blade flourish, and Arrow Barrage. Again... not as spells. As class features that can be used from a limited resource pool per day.
They should have defensive features like poison resistance, advantage vs poisoned condition, and elemental resistances. Perhaps Evasion as a mid to high level feature (to not cheapen the Rogue or monk).
They should have a non-spell healing feature that involves a Healers Kit or Herbalism Kit. Something like a limited number of times per day, for a modest d10+ Wis mod... or something like that.
And then they should have the Expertise boosts to skills and the movement speed boost w climb & swim (but also include ignoring difficult terrain) and temp Hp thing.
Capstone could be some kind of damage boost. Or just a +4 to Wis & Dex (nobody's gonna say no to that). Idk if any or all of this is viable. Maybe it's too much. Or maybe not thematic enough. I just know that what they gave us appears to be them copying somebody else's homework version of Tasha's. Tashas was better than 2014. But its not good enough for 2024. They phoned this one in.
Basing 13th, 17th and 20th level features off of a first level concentration spell is terrible design. I think they were rushed to meet the deadline. When are you ever casting 1st level spells in combat at these levels? Sorry ranger fans, I feel for you. Time to come up with some home brew.
Unless you mean Blindsight or some other precise sense this just isn't useful. Simply knowing there are enemies around and where they're standing is not a good ability. You know what else lets you know that, the Perception skill.
What exactly is wrong with these being Ranger spells though? They fixed the issue of Bards being able to poach them early, so what's left? Having them be spells declutters the class table and means they can be as detailed as they need to be with things like melee vs ranged, scaling damage with slot level, activation action etc.
Protection from Poison and Absorb Elements are on their list already; neither require concentration either. Evasion is a Hunter feature.
There are already rules for crafting healing potions with herbalism kits in Xanathar's (XGtE pg 130.) And Healer is a background feat now, so if you want your Ranger to be a mundane healer with kits that badly instead of using their actual magic for some reason, it's easy to do.
They got all this.
I agree the capstone needs work. But all the rest of it is either things they already have or things that are just vague or outright bad.
The spellcasting buffs alone puts 2024 Ranger way ahead of Tasha Ranger.
Yeah, it's not that hard to design a better ranger:
Primeval Awareness
1st level
As an action, you can open your senses and notice changes in the air, or terrain that reveal the presence of different types of creatures. You can determine which of the following types of creatures are present within a 1 mile radius of you: aberrations, beasts, constructs, monstrosities, elementals, dragons, giants, undead, oozes, fey, plant, humanoid, celestial (you can exclude specific creatures that you know of from this search). You do not learn their location, or specific identity. If you spend a second use of this feature, you can learn the number of creatures of one of these types that are present in this radius.
Alternatively, you can expend one use of this feature to learn the creature type, vulnerabilities, resistances, and immunities of one creature you can see within 500 ft of you that is not behind cover nor obscured.
You can use this ability a number of times equal to your proficiency bonus, you regain all uses when you finish a long rest.
Expertise -1st level - You gain Expertise in 1 skill of your choice.
Weapon Mastery & Fighting Style - 2nd level
Natural Explorer
3rd level
You gain a climb speed and a swim speed equal to your walking speed, you are unaffected by difficult terrain.
When traveling in hostile terrain, you and your party can move at half their normal travel speed and avoid any negative effects of that hostile terrain - e.g. they do not suffer from extreme cold when travelling in artic terrain. In addition, your party has advantage on Stealth check to remain hidden while travelling. You are unaffected by the negative effects of the hostile terrain even when moving at normal speed.
Experienced Tracker
6th level
When you use your Primeval Awareness to sense the presence of creatures, you also learn the direction to the closest member of each creature type that you sensed relative to your current position. In addition, you have advantage on Wisdom skill checks to spot or track them, as well as on Intelligence check to recall information about them for the next hour.
Exploit Weakness
6th level
When you use your Primeval Awareness to identify resistances, immunities and vulnerabilities of a creature, as part of that action you can change the damage-type of any weapons you are holding or carrying to the damage type the creature is weakest to - this includes silvered/adamantine weapon damage if they have that vulnerability. If your weapon deals multiple damage types all the damage is converted to the new damage type. This change lasts for 10 minutes or until you dismiss it (no action required) or until you use this ability again.
Land's Strider
8th level
You walking speed increases by 10 ft, and you have advantage on Strength, and Dexterity saving throws.
Natural Medicine
9th level
You have resistance to poison damage. As a bonus action, you can use a Herbalism kit to cure yourself or one creature within 5ft of you of the poisoned condition, or restore 2d10+your Wisdom modifier hit points to them. Once a creature has benefited from this ability, it cannot benefit again until it finished a short or long rest.
Know your Enemy
10th level
While you are under the effects of Exploit Weakness you deal an additional 1d10 damage with your weapons. While you are tracking a creature using your Experienced Tracker feature, you are hidden from the creature you are tracking until you make an attack or cast a spell that targets that creature. You cannot be frightened by any creature you have sensed or identified using your Primeval Awareness.
Hide in Plain Sight
13th level
You can take the Hide action as a bonus action on your turn, and you can Hide even if you are only lightly obscured. You and your party cannot be tracked unless you choose to leave a trail.
Feral Senses
14th level
You gain 30 ft blindsight, you have advantage on initiative rolls if a hostile creature is within this radius.
Skirmisher Stealth
17th level
When you use your Hide in Plain Sight to Hide as a Bonus Action, you can move up to half your speed as part of this action. In addition, when you make an attack with a weapon while hidden, you don't reveal your location if the attack misses.
Pin Point Precision
18th level
Once on each of your turns, you can reroll an attack roll or a damage roll and keep the higher result. Any bonuses or penalties still apply to the new roll, e.g. if you had disadvantage on the first roll, you still have disadvantage on the reroll.
Wild Mastery
20th level
Increase your Wisdom and one other ability score of your choice by +2, this also increases the maximum for those scores by 2
Were you going to attempt that at some point? ...Wait, was that it?
A bunch of these "features" just lead to what I've seen called the "air-breathing mermaid" problem - they create problems for other classes that the DM might not have even considered just by their very existence. Like the "you and the party can travel through the arctic without being cold" ability - do you really need a ranger for that? Can't everyone just wear warm clothes?
Why can't I use a skill check to determine what kinds of creatures might be in the area? Oh I can? Then why is this a whole class feature?
Of the features you listed, the only one I thought was decent was Wild Mastery, which was just copy-pasted from Monk anyway.
Oh sorry, I was making that for people who want the Ranger to be a Ranger not a fighter with some green paint on it. Here's a "Ranger" for you:
Hunter's Prey - 1st level
When you hit a creature with a weapon attack, you can mark it as your prey. Your attacks, including the triggering attack, deal an addition 1d6 damage of the same type as your weapon to the target. This effect ends after 1 minute or if you mark a different creature as your prey.
This damage increases when you reach higher levels of this class to 2d6 at 10th level, and 3d6 at 18th level.
Expertise - 1st level - You gain expertise in 4 skills of your choice.
Fighting Style & Weapon Mastery 2nd level
Crippling Mark - 6th level
When you mark a creature, you can impose one of the following conditions on it: Poisoned, Frightened, Charmed, Dazed. This condition lasts until the end of their next turn. Once you have used this feature on a creature it is immune to this ability for 8 hours.
Flurry of Strikes - 8th level
As an action, you can make a number of attacks equal to your proficiency bonus. Each attack must target a different creature that is within range of your weapon. Once you have used this feature you can't use it again until you have finished a short or long rest.
Vanish - 9th level
You can use a Bonus Action to become invisible until the end of your next turn. You can use this ability a number of time equal to your Wisdom modifier. You can regain 1 use of this feature by expending a spellslot (no action required).
Extra Attack 2 - 10th level
You can make 3 attacks whenever you take the Attack action.
Combat Spells - 14th level
You learn all of the Paladin spells with the word "Smite" in them, and all Ranger-specific spells, and always have them prepared. You can use these spells with both ranged and melee attacks even if the spell specifies only one.
Wild Mastery - 20th level
Increase your Wisdom and one other ability score of your choice by +2, this also increases the maximum for those scores by 2
since dnd is an "exceptions based game" and skill results are determined by the dm.......... even "redundant" ability checks have value. some creatures are immune to divination or have taken specific actions to hide their presence. However a 2014 ranger can quickly narrow down "false flag options" (thinking its a daemon instead of undead) or remove " dm Player dissonance". (players Expecting checks instead of equipment dm wants players to purchase or penalty)
understanding fixed vs variable elements of skills really make a diffrence. Hence double foraging is more reliable of a feature than hoping a good skill check will get good results.
There's a dedicated subforum to go over your homebrew, I'd rather discuss the printed class.
Skill checks aren't divinations, and whether they beat "specific actions to hide presence" is up to the DM. Presumably if the DM doesn't want a monster found with magic or skill checks then a random homebrew feature wouldn't work either, not that I would endorse that style of DMing to begin with. Everything in the game should have some form of counterplay, even if it's difficult or impractical to pull off.
But an entire class feature that mimics something a skill check can do is a waste in my eyes. I'd rather the table be encouraged to engage with the skill system that constantly try designing wordy coupons to bypass it.
I agree with this but I still think there is an issue with the way Hunter's Mark is being pushed too. I think Ranger could simply get enhancements to normal activities. So instead of they know the location of, it's a:
"you can add your proficiency bonus to any attempt to track a creature or to determine the age of any tracks it has left behind. This bonus applies to checks which are already benefiting from proficiency or expertise."
Not suggesting this one, just an example of how it could be written in such a way that a DM isn't going to assume other classes thus can't do this. Personally not going to make those types of suggestions since Ranger is not a class that overly interests me and thus I can't really recommend what 'flavour' it should really have.
Jumping back to Hunter's Mark, I have in other threads made this point with regards to Paladin's Smites too, but when something is meant to be a core feature like Hunter's Mark, even if it's powered by spell slots, it should remain a feature and not be a spell. I think hunter's mark in the latest iteration being pushed as a core feature in the way it is, is negative to the Ranger class.
How I think Hunter's Mark should work is probably re-adjusting it downwards but making it a proper feature instead of a spell.
Level 1, You gain the Ranger's Hunter's Mark, when you hit the target of your hunter's mark you can apply 1d4 force damage once per round. When tracking the current target of your hunter's mark, you gain advantage on any Wisdom (Perception) or Wisdom (Survival) checks you make to find it. You can apply hunter's mark to a creature when hitting it with an attack or by using your bonus action to apply to a creature you can see, you can not re-assign your hunter's mark if it is currently on another target and you have utilized any feature of your hunter's mark within the past 10 minutes. You hunter's mark expires if the creature is reduced to 0HP or if you have not seen the creature within the past 8 hours.
Level 5, you can spend 1 minute to cast locate creature as a ritual but it can only locate the current target of your hunter's mark and it's duration is reduced to 1 minute, when locate creature is cast in this way, you can not cast it again in this method until you have completed a short or long rest.
Level 9, your hunter's mark now adds 1d6 damage instead of 1d4.
Level 13, you gain hunter's reaction which you can use a number of times equal to your wisdom modifier, per long rest. The hunter's reaction allows you to take a reaction to apply advantage to an allies attack, if that attack directly targets current target of your hunter's mark and affects no other creature. You can alternatively use your hunter's reaction to apply disadvantage to any saving throws made by the current target of your hunter's marks as a reaction.
Level 17, your hunter's mark now adds 1d8 damage instead of 1d4. Get advantage on attack rolls against the current target of your hunter's mark.
Level 20, your hunter's mark now adds 1d10 damage instead of 1d4. When you score a critical hit against the current target of your hunter's mark, you deal an additional damage 1d10 force damage as part of the critical hit, this damage is not doubled.
I think this makes a much more balanced hunter's mark and keeps it as a feature you'd want to keep using, while being able to make up the lost damage by utilizing spells like Zephyr Strike, Summon Beast, Spike Growth or Flame Arrows. Of course people are free to disagree with me on that one, it's just my suggestion on what is more inline with where Hunter's Mark should have gone, if it was to be promoted into being such a core feature of the Ranger class.