There are a lot of things in BG3 that I really like and would enjoy in DnD, but obviously not everything.
If there was one thing I'd want to port over I think it'd be the way they treat Strength. Jump, Shove, and Throw are all actions that feel incredibly strong when you have a STR-based character. Jump gives Martials mobility, and because of the verticality of BG3 that mobility feels essential for dealing with a lot of encounters. Shove and, especially, Throw gives Martials some really effective control options that can lead to some incredibly fun gameplay. One of the most memorable moments in my first playthrough as a melee ranger was sneaking up behind a halfling, picking him up, and chucking him into a suspended rock that then collapsed on his two buddies below, killing all three. I'm constantly grabbing enemies, corpses, or dropped weapons and chucking them at people when I'm not in range to hit them or need to knock someone prone. It's a lot of fun.
BG3 is the first time I've felt like dumping Strength is an actual decision that has some weight to it. Even on characters who don't use it, I like having the little extra wiggle room with Jump distance or better odds at succeeding or resisting a Shove. Totally dumping Strength makes you a lightweight who can get bullied around the battlefield even if your main combat stat is DEX or CHA, and I think that is a much healthier state for the attribute balance than the current situation of Strength being unimportant if it's not your primary.
Now if only we could do something about INT...
STR-focused characters getting more movement range by bunnyhopping in platemail and PCs constantly getting shoved into bottomless pits are horrible game mechanics and would be absolutely unfun in any actual 5e game that doesn't involve save-scumming.
good personal opinion there bud. It would encourage some verticality in dnd maps that can be used effectively, but also there'll still be mainly level terrain maps because DMs would prefer to limit the amount of shoving happening on strong enemies unless its intentionally included. the spammable shove as a bonus action is obviously too much because some classes often dont have any use for their bonus action most turns. but still could be absolutely definitely fun
Decided to start again with a High Elf Rogue/Arcane Trickster instead of the Paladin.
Life is so much easier when you have Fire Bolt and aren't expected to run into the enemy and punch them. Also lock-picking your way into places gets you Withers. Expertise in persuasion is very helpful too. Want to free a goblin? Just wait until the area is clear and pop her cage open. The game even gives you an item that gives you on demand Disguise Self so you're never the same person twice.
Decided to start again with a High Elf Rogue/Arcane Trickster instead of the Paladin.
Life is so much easier when you have Fire Bolt and aren't expected to run into the enemy and punch them.
Maps with complex terrain are rather... hostile to melee. Though if you play a strength build, it appears thrown weapons have just as long range as spells and bows.
OneD&D on racism: "Races shouldn't be defined by being victims of prejudice, or being written as universally evil."
Baldur's Gate 3 on racism: "Racism is bad m'kay, but they are leeching off of all these people and stealing from the very folks helping them..."
I would like to think that this fair criticism represents an evolution in the way D&D looks at these stereotypes in the time since BG3 started to take on the story years ago. But that might be wishful thinking.
It is still, in fact, accurate lore in the PHB that tieflings are regarded with suspicion, mistrust, and hatred by other denizens of the Realms, and Lolthian drow are nigh-universally feared and loathed aboveground due to the reputation of Menzoberranian slavers. Baldur's Gate 3 hadda work with the PHB as it existed years ago. Perhaps it can serve as a stark lesson in why Wizards is moving away from such things, ne? if you find it really uncomfortable and unkind in BG3, I wonder if people find it uncomfortable at the table, too.
But anyways. Yes to most of BG3's ideas. Many of them would need retuning to work appropriately at the table, but a surprisingly good number of them make things feel fresh and awesome. Frankly, BG3 is a significantly better reboot of the game than One D&D is turning out to be.
Frankly, BG3 is a significantly better reboot of the game than One D&D is turning out to be.
Well, it seems like BG3 is already having somewhat of an impact on the playtesting process. I haven't played the game and don't know a ton about it, but it certainly seems to me that the new jump spell and Brawler's ability to grapple/shove as a bonus action are inspired by the rules additions in Baldur's Gate.
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Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
Frankly, BG3 is a significantly better reboot of the game than One D&D is turning out to be.
Well, it seems like BG3 is already having somewhat of an impact on the playtesting process. I haven't played the game and don't know a ton about it, but it certainly seems to me that the new jump spell and Brawler's ability to grapple/shove as a bonus action are inspired by the rules additions in Baldur's Gate.
The new jump spell isn't the same as BG3, and grapple/shove as bonus actions were already in 5e, the new brawler is pretty much just a minor upgrade of the tavern brawler feat.
UA by a country mile. BG3 expands the gap between the optimizer and non optimizer by a order of magnitude or two. On a individual level some of their changes are good but its like no thought went into how those could be used in concert. And the game ends up in this weird state where you have to make bad choices in order not to make the game boring.
Decided to start again with a High Elf Rogue/Arcane Trickster instead of the Paladin.
Life is so much easier when you have Fire Bolt and aren't expected to run into the enemy and punch them.
Maps with complex terrain are rather... hostile to melee. Though if you play a strength build, it appears thrown weapons have just as long range as spells and bows.
Well the jump/movement rules in BG3 help a lot in that regard. I almost never lost a action while moving with my strength melee even without throwing, bonus action sure but that is it.
Baldur's Gate 3 is a mishmash of extremely unbalanced, absurd choices that only get a pass because of video-game power-fantasy desires, and not only would these changes be awkward and nonsensical for proper 5e place, it would also be wildly unsatisfying for any player who doesn't go for the power-gaming or blatantly-favoured options. Is it fun for DEX-focused classes that the STR-focused Fighter in heavy armour is more maneuverable than they are, because of bunnyhopping? Why would anyone take any of the Rogue subclasses other than the one that gives you an extra bonus action? Why does one Monk subclass get a brand-new feature at Level 9 and none of the others do?
dex has never in 5e had anything to do with movement or speed. And in fact str is the stat most closely associated with movement in 5e. jump distance, swimming, climbing are str based activities.
Dexterity is only associated with balance, and this is why onednd changed thief to allow dex for jumping checks.
Monk subclass gets a new feature at 9, because open hand needed a rework. Arcane trickster and Assasin aren't weak. Assasin can destroy an encounter with Alpha damage. I have had Astarion Almost kill bosses before anyone even got to act. So you may not have known this but monk in 5e is one of the worst classes mathematically the further you get from level 5. by level 11 they become extremely bad. Larian had to try to correct this. Even with the changes, monk is not actually the strongest class in bg3
BG3 is homebrew, but its actually not crazier than 5e in general, its just different classes with powerful things and more access to magic items.
Yes, thank you for explaining the obvious about DEX not affecting movement. But the simple reality is that neither stat gives an overall boost to movement range for a reason. Making one stat allow for an effective increased movement range throws balance out of whack, and is especially when it takes the form of bunnyhopping like a 90's FPS protagonist around in plate-mail armour.
Also, "mathematics" very rarely understands or acknowledges what the strengths of a given class are. Such as the Monk's movement abilities, which are nerfed in BG3, because BG3 is built entirely around pure combat utility and multiclassing min-maxing. Rather than focusing on their unarmoured features, BG3 lets a fully-armoured Fighter get all of the benefits of Monks' martial arts and ki abilities while wielding martial weapons and high-AC armour—then throws in a perk that boosts unarmed damage in a way a pure-classed/DEX-focused Monk can't benefit from, making it so that a Fighter who takes one level in Monk can do more unarmed damage than a max-levelled Monk. And BG3's Open Hand benefits further from blatant favouritism by getting a feature that boosts unarmed damage (in an unsuccessful attempt to keep pace with overpowered loot) that no other Monk subclass gets, meaning every other Monk subclass falls further behind in BG3's terrible power-curve.
It helps to balance the two statistics.
Dexterity leads to going first. Strength increased jump distance, and thus total movement per round, but at the cost of a bonus action. And since Strength-based attacks are overwhelming melee, it helps them close the gap to be more effective.
It's honestly not a bad idea. Especially with the verticality.
I think a general strength increases movement rate would be a cleaner way to implement it without the weird max distance is done by jumping method. Jump would still be useful to avoid difficult terrain etc.
As an aside I do think there should be something about not jumping while in the difficult terrain in BG3. It seemed weird that all spells like web just meant enemies jumped cleanly out of them with their bonus action as if jumping while in piles of sticky webs or with spikes in your feet is just as easy as when on a open plain.
STR-focused characters getting more movement range by bunnyhopping in platemail and PCs constantly getting shoved into bottomless pits are horrible game mechanics and would be absolutely unfun in any actual 5e game that doesn't involve save-scumming.
I see it more as a heroic leap, though I'd probably tweak things a bit so you can't just jump out of difficult terrain and maybe add some kind of Charge action for moving horizontally over flat terrain to reach an opponent rather than encouraging everyone to jump toward their opponents in every circumstance. There's a reason most video games give their melee characters mobility-increasing options. It's because being melee and not being able to get into melee isn't fun.
As for Shoving into pits? That is more on the DM choosing to add tons of pits and cliffs to their battles than anything. On flat terrain, Shove is more about knocking melee away from your squishies and forcing enemies into player-made traps and killzones. It makes positioning more important and gives your melee guys more options for keeping the enemy melee off your backline beyond relying entirely on Attacks of Opportunity.
I agree with most of this but part of the shove issue in the game is the absurd distance you get shoved. You can be no where near a hazzard and still end up in it. Maybe not a bottomless pit, but something.
Baldur's Gate 3 hadda work with the PHB as it existed years ago.
There's a world of difference between "adhering to the PHB about tieflings being viewed with distrust" and "writing such as tieflings' entire characterization, supporting attitudes that contribute to real-life racism towards oppressed minorities, and describing such people not getting the same opportunities more white human-looking people receive as being what they 'deserve'".
And they didn't need to work with the PHB framework, because later sourcebooks like MPMM had already started moving away from characterizing entire races along alignment lines, encouraging more nuanced characters and storylines rather than "here are a bunch of Evil Foreign People and a storyline all about how the Evil Foreign People's beliefs are wrong and stupid".
Baldur's Gate 3 hadda work with the PHB as it existed years ago.
There's a world of difference between "adhering to the PHB about tieflings being viewed with distrust" and "writing such as tieflings' entire characterization, supporting attitudes that contribute to real-life racism towards oppressed minorities, and describing such people not getting the same opportunities more white human-looking people receive as being what they 'deserve'".
And they didn't need to work with the PHB framework, because later sourcebooks like MPMM had already started moving away from characterizing entire races along alignment lines, encouraging more nuanced characters and storylines rather than "here are a bunch of Evil Foreign People and a storyline all about how the Evil Foreign People's beliefs are wrong and stupid".
Larians writing style is edgy sterotypes.
that describes 98% of all game creators.
also 70% of all programmers.
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Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities .-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-. An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more. Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
Baldur's Gate 3 hadda work with the PHB as it existed years ago.
There's a world of difference between "adhering to the PHB about tieflings being viewed with distrust" and "writing such as tieflings' entire characterization, supporting attitudes that contribute to real-life racism towards oppressed minorities, and describing such people not getting the same opportunities more white human-looking people receive as being what they 'deserve'".
And they didn't need to work with the PHB framework, because later sourcebooks like MPMM had already started moving away from characterizing entire races along alignment lines, encouraging more nuanced characters and storylines rather than "here are a bunch of Evil Foreign People and a storyline all about how the Evil Foreign People's beliefs are wrong and stupid".
Larians writing style is edgy sterotypes.
that describes 98% of all game creators.
also 70% of all programmers.
Lol, probably true. I just eye roll a lot more when I'm playing larian games. If I wasn't a turn based game fanatic I'd avoid their games.
I agree with most of this but part of the shove issue in the game is the absurd distance you get shoved. You can be no where near a hazzard and still end up in it. Maybe not a bottomless pit, but something.
Distance would need to be tweaked a bit, but I think there's room for shoving people beyond a simple 5 feet. It feels powerful when your 20 Strength Barbarian launches someone away like they're made of paper, but it's really hard to judge how far a given enemy can shove you to plan around it. I've been taken off guard a couple of times and lost someone because of it.
I agree with most of this but part of the shove issue in the game is the absurd distance you get shoved. You can be no where near a hazzard and still end up in it. Maybe not a bottomless pit, but something.
Distance would need to be tweaked a bit, but I think there's room for shoving people beyond a simple 5 feet. It feels powerful when your 20 Strength Barbarian launches someone away like they're made of paper, but it's really hard to judge how far a given enemy can shove you to plan around it. I've been taken off guard a couple of times and lost someone because of it.
5 plus Str modifier in feet?
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Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities .-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-. An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more. Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
I do like the way Friends just gives you advantage on charisma checks against non-hostile units. No downside to using it. It makes it a cantrip worth taking. Almost compulsory in fact.
Also spell/effect durations are either about a minute, or until your next long rest. It saves a lot of book keeping. Does it really make a difference if Mage Armor lasts for eight hours or until your next long rest? Or Invisibility? Or Disguise Self?
They last for your combat encounter, or they're just on until they're turned off. No book keeping needed other than spell slots.
I started BG3 last night as a Drow Paladin, and it's quite fun.
It is a video game though, so rules made to work under video game mechanics don't translate perfectly to tabletop.
I wonder if killing tiefling children is wrong.
OneD&D on racism: "Races shouldn't be defined by being victims of prejudice, or being written as universally evil."
Baldur's Gate 3 on racism: "Racism is bad m'kay, but they are leeching off of all these people and stealing from the very folks helping them..."
Both of these statements can be true. And the Tieflings in BG3 aren't all thieves, nor are the ones who do steal from people doing so because they're tieflings - they're doing so because they're desperate refugees in a conflict they have no agency over. Having horns and sharp teeth works as a shorthand initial reason for why they're treated the way they are, but you could rewrite them all to be a settlement of kobolds or wild elves or forest gnomes without actually changing much.
I started BG3 last night as a Drow Paladin, and it's quite fun.
It is a video game though, so rules made to work under video game mechanics don't translate perfectly to tabletop.
I wonder if killing tiefling children is wrong.
OneD&D on racism: "Races shouldn't be defined by being victims of prejudice, or being written as universally evil."
Baldur's Gate 3 on racism: "Racism is bad m'kay, but they are leeching off of all these people and stealing from the very folks helping them..."
Both of these statements can be true. And the Tieflings in BG3 aren't all thieves, nor are the ones who do steal from people doing so because they're tieflings - they're doing so because they're desperate refugees in a conflict they have no agency over.
All the kids in the Druid Enclave are thieves; the adults seem oblivious. A fair amount of blame can probably be pointed directly at Mol.
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good personal opinion there bud. It would encourage some verticality in dnd maps that can be used effectively, but also there'll still be mainly level terrain maps because DMs would prefer to limit the amount of shoving happening on strong enemies unless its intentionally included. the spammable shove as a bonus action is obviously too much because some classes often dont have any use for their bonus action most turns. but still could be absolutely definitely fun
I started BG3 last night as a Drow Paladin, and it's quite fun.
It is a video game though, so rules made to work under video game mechanics don't translate perfectly to tabletop.
I wonder if killing tiefling children is wrong.
Decided to start again with a High Elf Rogue/Arcane Trickster instead of the Paladin.
Life is so much easier when you have Fire Bolt and aren't expected to run into the enemy and punch them. Also lock-picking your way into places gets you Withers. Expertise in persuasion is very helpful too. Want to free a goblin? Just wait until the area is clear and pop her cage open. The game even gives you an item that gives you on demand Disguise Self so you're never the same person twice.
Maps with complex terrain are rather... hostile to melee. Though if you play a strength build, it appears thrown weapons have just as long range as spells and bows.
I would like to think that this fair criticism represents an evolution in the way D&D looks at these stereotypes in the time since BG3 started to take on the story years ago. But that might be wishful thinking.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
It is still, in fact, accurate lore in the PHB that tieflings are regarded with suspicion, mistrust, and hatred by other denizens of the Realms, and Lolthian drow are nigh-universally feared and loathed aboveground due to the reputation of Menzoberranian slavers. Baldur's Gate 3 hadda work with the PHB as it existed years ago. Perhaps it can serve as a stark lesson in why Wizards is moving away from such things, ne? if you find it really uncomfortable and unkind in BG3, I wonder if people find it uncomfortable at the table, too.
But anyways. Yes to most of BG3's ideas. Many of them would need retuning to work appropriately at the table, but a surprisingly good number of them make things feel fresh and awesome. Frankly, BG3 is a significantly better reboot of the game than One D&D is turning out to be.
Please do not contact or message me.
Well, it seems like BG3 is already having somewhat of an impact on the playtesting process. I haven't played the game and don't know a ton about it, but it certainly seems to me that the new jump spell and Brawler's ability to grapple/shove as a bonus action are inspired by the rules additions in Baldur's Gate.
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
The new jump spell isn't the same as BG3, and grapple/shove as bonus actions were already in 5e, the new brawler is pretty much just a minor upgrade of the tavern brawler feat.
UA by a country mile. BG3 expands the gap between the optimizer and non optimizer by a order of magnitude or two. On a individual level some of their changes are good but its like no thought went into how those could be used in concert. And the game ends up in this weird state where you have to make bad choices in order not to make the game boring.
Well the jump/movement rules in BG3 help a lot in that regard. I almost never lost a action while moving with my strength melee even without throwing, bonus action sure but that is it.
I think a general strength increases movement rate would be a cleaner way to implement it without the weird max distance is done by jumping method. Jump would still be useful to avoid difficult terrain etc.
As an aside I do think there should be something about not jumping while in the difficult terrain in BG3. It seemed weird that all spells like web just meant enemies jumped cleanly out of them with their bonus action as if jumping while in piles of sticky webs or with spikes in your feet is just as easy as when on a open plain.
I agree with most of this but part of the shove issue in the game is the absurd distance you get shoved. You can be no where near a hazzard and still end up in it. Maybe not a bottomless pit, but something.
Larians writing style is edgy sterotypes.
that describes 98% of all game creators.
also 70% of all programmers.
Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities
.-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-.
An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more.
Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
Lol, probably true. I just eye roll a lot more when I'm playing larian games. If I wasn't a turn based game fanatic I'd avoid their games.
Distance would need to be tweaked a bit, but I think there's room for shoving people beyond a simple 5 feet. It feels powerful when your 20 Strength Barbarian launches someone away like they're made of paper, but it's really hard to judge how far a given enemy can shove you to plan around it. I've been taken off guard a couple of times and lost someone because of it.
5 plus Str modifier in feet?
Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities
.-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-.
An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more.
Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
I do like the way Friends just gives you advantage on charisma checks against non-hostile units. No downside to using it. It makes it a cantrip worth taking. Almost compulsory in fact.
Also spell/effect durations are either about a minute, or until your next long rest. It saves a lot of book keeping. Does it really make a difference if Mage Armor lasts for eight hours or until your next long rest? Or Invisibility? Or Disguise Self?
They last for your combat encounter, or they're just on until they're turned off. No book keeping needed other than spell slots.
Both of these statements can be true. And the Tieflings in BG3 aren't all thieves, nor are the ones who do steal from people doing so because they're tieflings - they're doing so because they're desperate refugees in a conflict they have no agency over. Having horns and sharp teeth works as a shorthand initial reason for why they're treated the way they are, but you could rewrite them all to be a settlement of kobolds or wild elves or forest gnomes without actually changing much.
All the kids in the Druid Enclave are thieves; the adults seem oblivious. A fair amount of blame can probably be pointed directly at Mol.