All the kids in the Druid Enclave are thieves; the adults seem oblivious. A fair amount of blame can probably be pointed directly at Mol.
That doesn't invalidate anything I said. If they were a bunch of human or dwarf children in that situation they might have turned to thievery too, it has nothing to do with their race (beyond perhaps them getting less benefit of the doubt than they would have if they were conventionally prettier.)
All the kids in the Druid Enclave are thieves; the adults seem oblivious. A fair amount of blame can probably be pointed directly at Mol.
That doesn't invalidate anything I said. If they were a bunch of human or dwarf children in that situation they might have turned to thievery too, it has nothing to do with their race (beyond perhaps them getting less benefit of the doubt than they would have if they were conventionally prettier.)
If it was a bunch of human children, there'd still be countless more humans throughout the story that this one group of humans doesn't reflect the story's treatment of their entire race.
Almost every tiefling character in BG3 is wrapped up in a narrative of being victimized and oppressed...with the insinuation that they deserve such treatment, that they don't deserve better and don't deserve to decide their own fate.
If what you're saying is that the setting could have used a few more examples of Tiefling nobles, merchants, adventurers, guildmembers etc, I'm not arguing with that. But refugees being the focus in a story about war and pogroms isn't particularly shocking to me. And even among the refugees themselves, we got plenty of heroes and other capable sorts like Zevlor, Alfira, Rolan etc. Flawed of course, but still capable.
Minthara, a drow woman, is a character whose post-act-1 story content didn't exist at launch. She had zero story content following the first act. The creators of the game couldn't be bothered to make sure her story content actually worked when the game was released.
The language you use suggests that the content was added in later, and is present in the current iteration of the game.
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Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
Spoilering because the whole BG3 tangent is becoming pretty off-topic for the UA forum.
I view Minthara as being like Morinth in Mass Effect 2; recruiting her requires your playthrough to be almost cartoonishly evil, and as a result so few people outside of the completionist crowd would even want to start her story much less see it through that their development time was just better spent elsewhere.
Halsin meanwhile wasn't supposed to be a full companion either, much less a fully animated romance option, but they got a huge positive response to him for being a big sensitive elf himbo and his cooperation with the party is much easier to slot into the far more popular "good playthrough." (The stats Bioware released for MELE and Dragon Age 2 back in the day showing that 80% of people who finish their games do Good runs come to mind.) And they further decided, since his romance occurs so late in the game that you're likely to have something else going by the time you triggered it, that he would be a good candidate for poly representation.
I'm not saying it's wrong to attribute at least some or even most of his popularity to being inoffensive and broadly appealing from a systemic race standpoint. Yes, he's a square-jawed tall beefy handsome white jock type. But I don't think Larian was wrong to give Minthara the short end of the stick either, nor do I think her being a Drow or having darker skin had anything to do with it, at least not consciously. Unconsciously is another matter of course, but they're already a step ahead of Dragon Age.
On topic for OneD&D - I think something that will help a lot with racial diversity in future CRPG adaptations will be One's approach to race design. The core races in One are much, much more interesting mechanically than either their BG3 or 2014 counterparts. Humans might end up being a bit too strong with their ability to stockpile Inspiration over rests and two starting feats, but thinking about all the cool possibilities Larian will have for an inevitable sequel or spinoff like Dragonborn that can sprout wings or Eladrin that can teleport all over the place regardless of class has me genuinely excited.
Dark Elves, traditionally, have been depicted as a society that views everyone who's not a Drow as less than themselves. Slaves, or food for spiders, but certainly not beings deserving of life or respect. In that they're the opposite of the Light Elves.
Tieflings are associated by appearance and ancestry with the devils which, as we know from Karlach's story, exist, and are evil.
If they existed in the real world then people would be especially averse to Drow, and somewhat suspicious of Tieflings. Even if you weren't like other Drow, you'd have to acknowledge that most people aren't going to be able to determine if you're on the level, or are scheming to befriend them and betray them later, like the Sawi people of New Guinea.
I didn't get the impression that the Druids are the "good" side, however they are providing protection for a group of people that they're not especially fond of, at some cost to themselves. That's a respectable position, even if there are vocal elements who want to drive out the refugees.
The childish American belief in "goodies" and "baddies" has failed whenever that American attitude has been applied outside their country. It also fails whenever it's applied to a story of largely morally grey people. Hell, it doesn't even work in the United States. People are far more complicated than that. Reality is more complicated than that.
When a friend of mine was a teacher in Saudi Arabia he had students who were the children of slaves. Literal slave women. Of course the boys he taught weren't slaves, not because Saudi Arabia was particularly enlightened, it's just because women have so little status that who your mother is is completely irrelevant.
And I don't care about people and stories preaching "grey" morality.
Preaching? Or actually telling a story about complicated people?
Stories where the characters have to be cookie cutter versions of yourself and anyone who deviates from your beliefs (which are, let's remember, pretty much nonexistent for of most of human history, and outside most of the modern Western world) is automatically evil turn out to be very boring stories. Which is why Hollywood has been putting out dreck for years.
But has been noted, America is an evangelical country, and they're evangelical about everything.
When a friend of mine was a teacher in Saudi Arabia he had students who were the children of slaves. Literal slave women. Of course the boys he taught weren't slaves, not because Saudi Arabia was particularly enlightened, it's just because women have so little status that who your mother is is completely irrelevant.
And I don't care about people and stories preaching "grey" morality.
Preaching? Or actually telling a story about complicated people?
Stories where the characters have to be cookie cutter versions of yourself and anyone who deviates from your beliefs (which are, let's remember, pretty much nonexistent for of most of human history, and outside most of the modern Western world) is automatically evil turn out to be very boring stories. Which is why Hollywood has been putting out dreck for years.
But has been noted, America is an evangelical country, and they're evangelical about everything.
I would wager most people don't fire up an escapist fantasy RPG with their limited free time just to re-enact the numerous failings of world history. Faerun doesn't have to model itself on Saudi Arabia in any way.
The Goliath also looks promising in One D&D, and unlike the Ardling, I didn't get any sense that people were foaming at the mouth about how they handled the Goliath.
Goliath got high scores I'm pretty sure. Man I would love if that were a core option in the next one. I could be taller than Halsin for a change!
As for the Ardling, they've all but promised it's coming back - just not in core. I'm more than happy to playtest it again.
But has been noted, America is an evangelical country, and they're evangelical about everything.
My dude, you can make your point about the value of grey morality and nuanced characterization without generalizing the tastes and behaviors of 330 million people.
When a friend of mine was a teacher in Saudi Arabia he had students who were the children of slaves. Literal slave women. Of course the boys he taught weren't slaves, not because Saudi Arabia was particularly enlightened, it's just because women have so little status that who your mother is is completely irrelevant.
And I don't care about people and stories preaching "grey" morality.
Preaching? Or actually telling a story about complicated people?
Stories where the characters have to be cookie cutter versions of yourself and anyone who deviates from your beliefs (which are, let's remember, pretty much nonexistent for of most of human history, and outside most of the modern Western world) is automatically evil turn out to be very boring stories. Which is why Hollywood has been putting out dreck for years.
But has been noted, America is an evangelical country, and they're evangelical about everything.
Humanity has always othered people who are different, simple stories are older than Aesop, leave Hollywood out of this, and there are not 340 million "evangelical" people in the United States.
The game has some storytelling presentation issues with regards to the races, for sure.
In terms of mechanics though, it presented simple (video game focused) solutions for a lot of the clunky bits many of us identified with 5e. Probably my favourite design ideas which I feel have merit for 5eR (outside the tweak to utility of some spells) were:
Upgrading/modifying equipment through purchasable Uncommon items. The fact that, outside GM fiat (giving magic items or allowing the sale of them), there's no way to improve your kit. I think there's merit in distinguishing between "magic items" and "upgrades". +1 bonuses to attacks, skills, saves, added cantrips, etc. could all be given pricing guidelines and presented in the PHB with guidance in DMG for own design. Gives players something to spend their money on and if it's in the PHB (but restricted to those basic improvements) there's less mother-may-I about item availability.
Distinct weapons.
Universal per/short rest weapon actions. If you're proficient with a weapon, you should be able to do the cool things with it. It makes a standardised set of abilities that every class uses so you're not having to learn a whole new system when you start a new character. They're still better for martials, due to damage, DCs, and action economy, but that's where the Weapon Mastery should come in to really reinforce the difference. Weapon Mastery could let you do it twice per SR, PB per SR, at will, use two at once, improve the effects, etc. and has the corollary that you can restrict Weapon Mastery to just martial classes without the weird situation where rogue, paladin, and ranger get it.
Short Rests. By explicitly stating you can only benefit from 2 SR a day, that has the dual effect of psychologically suggesting to players that they should be taking 2 SR a day, and standardizing expected output of SR based classes. Shortening the duration so it's always achievable (10 min in game time sounds reasonable) is the caveat, and would also reduce the crutch features WotC have included such as Heightened Metabolism. You should always be able to SR if you need to to get your breath back before the next fight.
Spell effect duration. A lot of these got simplified to "until you Long Rest" and I've had a blast using spells I never normally would have.
Increased list of Conditions. Some of these are only achievable in a video game that tracks it for you, but I feel there's definitely scope for a bit more depth in 5e.
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That doesn't invalidate anything I said. If they were a bunch of human or dwarf children in that situation they might have turned to thievery too, it has nothing to do with their race (beyond perhaps them getting less benefit of the doubt than they would have if they were conventionally prettier.)
If what you're saying is that the setting could have used a few more examples of Tiefling nobles, merchants, adventurers, guildmembers etc, I'm not arguing with that. But refugees being the focus in a story about war and pogroms isn't particularly shocking to me. And even among the refugees themselves, we got plenty of heroes and other capable sorts like Zevlor, Alfira, Rolan etc. Flawed of course, but still capable.
BG3 is very interesting because It tests the D&D Mechanics at its core in combat and guess what? Its has statistics.
You cant do it accurate with table top because every table is different, DMs are different.
What's BG3 teaches us:
1) Multiple Actions is too powerful. Fun but broken.
2) Resistance is something that you always must consider. Some players don't even knows It exists .
3) Control Spells are very strong ! Specially on Players.
4) Counterspells is really a bad design.
5) Multiclass is broken.
6) Respecting Spells is very cool.
7) Social skills are amazing.
8) If you have no resources, the combat is very boring.
9) Metamagics Feats are really strong.
10) Verticality is amazing
The language you use suggests that the content was added in later, and is present in the current iteration of the game.
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
Spoilering because the whole BG3 tangent is becoming pretty off-topic for the UA forum.
I view Minthara as being like Morinth in Mass Effect 2; recruiting her requires your playthrough to be almost cartoonishly evil, and as a result so few people outside of the completionist crowd would even want to start her story much less see it through that their development time was just better spent elsewhere.
Halsin meanwhile wasn't supposed to be a full companion either, much less a fully animated romance option, but they got a huge positive response to him for being a big sensitive elf himbo and his cooperation with the party is much easier to slot into the far more popular "good playthrough." (The stats Bioware released for MELE and Dragon Age 2 back in the day showing that 80% of people who finish their games do Good runs come to mind.) And they further decided, since his romance occurs so late in the game that you're likely to have something else going by the time you triggered it, that he would be a good candidate for poly representation.
I'm not saying it's wrong to attribute at least some or even most of his popularity to being inoffensive and broadly appealing from a systemic race standpoint. Yes, he's a square-jawed tall beefy handsome white jock type. But I don't think Larian was wrong to give Minthara the short end of the stick either, nor do I think her being a Drow or having darker skin had anything to do with it, at least not consciously. Unconsciously is another matter of course, but they're already a step ahead of Dragon Age.
On topic for OneD&D - I think something that will help a lot with racial diversity in future CRPG adaptations will be One's approach to race design. The core races in One are much, much more interesting mechanically than either their BG3 or 2014 counterparts. Humans might end up being a bit too strong with their ability to stockpile Inspiration over rests and two starting feats, but thinking about all the cool possibilities Larian will have for an inevitable sequel or spinoff like Dragonborn that can sprout wings or Eladrin that can teleport all over the place regardless of class has me genuinely excited.
Dark Elves, traditionally, have been depicted as a society that views everyone who's not a Drow as less than themselves. Slaves, or food for spiders, but certainly not beings deserving of life or respect. In that they're the opposite of the Light Elves.
Tieflings are associated by appearance and ancestry with the devils which, as we know from Karlach's story, exist, and are evil.
If they existed in the real world then people would be especially averse to Drow, and somewhat suspicious of Tieflings. Even if you weren't like other Drow, you'd have to acknowledge that most people aren't going to be able to determine if you're on the level, or are scheming to befriend them and betray them later, like the Sawi people of New Guinea.
I didn't get the impression that the Druids are the "good" side, however they are providing protection for a group of people that they're not especially fond of, at some cost to themselves. That's a respectable position, even if there are vocal elements who want to drive out the refugees.
The childish American belief in "goodies" and "baddies" has failed whenever that American attitude has been applied outside their country. It also fails whenever it's applied to a story of largely morally grey people. Hell, it doesn't even work in the United States. People are far more complicated than that. Reality is more complicated than that.
When a friend of mine was a teacher in Saudi Arabia he had students who were the children of slaves. Literal slave women. Of course the boys he taught weren't slaves, not because Saudi Arabia was particularly enlightened, it's just because women have so little status that who your mother is is completely irrelevant.
Preaching? Or actually telling a story about complicated people?
Stories where the characters have to be cookie cutter versions of yourself and anyone who deviates from your beliefs (which are, let's remember, pretty much nonexistent for of most of human history, and outside most of the modern Western world) is automatically evil turn out to be very boring stories. Which is why Hollywood has been putting out dreck for years.
But has been noted, America is an evangelical country, and they're evangelical about everything.
I would wager most people don't fire up an escapist fantasy RPG with their limited free time just to re-enact the numerous failings of world history. Faerun doesn't have to model itself on Saudi Arabia in any way.
Goliath got high scores I'm pretty sure. Man I would love if that were a core option in the next one. I could be taller than Halsin for a change!
As for the Ardling, they've all but promised it's coming back - just not in core. I'm more than happy to playtest it again.
My dude, you can make your point about the value of grey morality and nuanced characterization without generalizing the tastes and behaviors of 330 million people.
Humanity has always othered people who are different, simple stories are older than Aesop, leave Hollywood out of this, and there are not 340 million "evangelical" people in the United States.
The game has some storytelling presentation issues with regards to the races, for sure.
In terms of mechanics though, it presented simple (video game focused) solutions for a lot of the clunky bits many of us identified with 5e. Probably my favourite design ideas which I feel have merit for 5eR (outside the tweak to utility of some spells) were: