So, many classes have resources they regain on a short rest: wizards perform their arcane recovery, clerics check the bandwidth of with their divine service provider, and so on. But we also have a few classes that just sit around drawing in the sand while they wait for the rest of the group to get their act together.
And as such, I present the framework of a new mechanic:
Short Rest Actions
So. We have actions, Bonus Actions, Reactions. We have downtime actions. Now, let's weaponise Short Rests as a form of action. Abbreviated SRA, for our convenience.
We have the basic SRAs: Health Recovery: Spend 1 or more Hit Dice. This can be done while also taking another SRA that requires no strenuous activity. Attune an Item: Gain the benefit of a magical item that requires attunement.
We also have class-specific SRAs (for example): Arcane Recovery (Wizard): Regain a number of spell slots of a combined level equal to or less than half your Wizard level (rounded up). Channel Divinity (Cleric): Regain one use of your channel divinity feature.
Now, let's run with this idea a bit further. Take the rogue, for instance. What do they do during a Short Rest, if they don't need or have any Hit Dice to spend? Barring subclass options or specific feats... not a whole lot. But what if they could?
Scout Ahead (Rogue): You learn basic information about any creatures, structures, obstacles, and other observable features in a chosen adjacent area, up to a maximum distance of 20 ft per rogue level from your camp. (Just placeholder numbers :) ) Guard Duty (Ranger): You become aware of any creatures approaching the camp as if under the effect of an Alarm spell, with a range of up 10 ft per ranger level. Your Passive Perception is increased by 5 during your guard duty. (More placeholders!)
Yes, sure, these are actions that can be taken by any any character through roleplaying. Wouldn't it be nice, though, if classes already geared toward these things could achieve even more doing it, giving them a firm role in these situations? Add a little extra to that class identity?
DM: "Okay, you settle down at the far side of the glen. Cassie, you regain your spell slot. Mark, you learn that there's likely some hobgoblins patrolling further ahead in the valley. Eithne, you spot a snake looking to make a meal out of Cassie's rat familiar. Oh, and Jacob..."
Jacob: "I sing a Song of Rest!"
DM: "No you don't. That feature was taken out, remember?"
As a rogue I'm not for this. First of all, it's ranger behavior, second it's just what you would naturally do in your movement.
You're also cutting down on attunement requirements, which... meh. I'm not concerned with it.
Besides, outside of healing and slots, there's nothing that a rest (short or long) that can't be done normally. They're literally just recharge mechanics.
Hey, in my defence, I never claimed this was a GOOD idea. However, as with many things, someone else - a gifted, beautiful person who doesn't fight in the arena of logic unarmed like me - might take inspiration from my madness and run with it. Iterate upon it. And maybe even present us with something worthwhile in the future? :)
I'm just the gardener in this backyard of imagination - what you do with the flowers you pick here is up to you. But thanks for the honest criticism! :D
Hey, in my defence, I never claimed this was a GOOD idea. However, as with many things, someone else - a gifted, beautiful person who doesn't fight in the arena of logic unarmed like me - might take inspiration from my madness and run with it. Iterate upon it. And maybe even present us with something worthwhile in the future? :)
I'm just the gardener in this backyard of imagination - what you do with the flowers you pick here is up to you. But thanks for the honest criticism! :D
No worries.
I think people just want their characters more powerful.
Caster classes wield some crazy powerful spells that are almost mind melting in the game, and the trade off is they can only do it so many times before they have to pick up a weapon and at least hold their ground.
Melee classes these days generally have resources with their skills but aren't dependent upon the resources skills to donate decent amount of damage, and the trade off is that they don't do mind melting stuff.
So playing a caster means playing a resource game.
But casters want the power but don't want the resource game. They just want to terrorize the town with their godlike powers.
But for as intelligent or charming or as wise those casters are, they don't get that restrictions are what makes it fun.
It's why people people like doing trick shots or why tic tac toe is boring. Life's less fun on easy mode. (Though financial hard mode is not fun for anyone. And life's hard mode should be being a good person).
I'm pretty done with "make big numbers go up" mindset, just chasing higher damage numbers or... uh... the regional equivalent of their chosen role. So, instead I want to explore more laterally, make the system support non-combat skills and actions further. I've often heard this argument that D&D is merely a wargame with some roleplaying elements stapled on as an afterthought, but there's really no need for it to stay that way forever. And systems don't need to be zero-sum either, right? It's possible to expand and reward an aspect of a game without it infringing on another side of it (saliently: combat).
Though, I'm willing to admit these ideas may come from other RPGs cross-pollinating my brainplaces. I see mechanics I like in games like Blades in the Dark, Mage, or Candela Obscura, and it makes my homebrewing heart go pitterpatter.
Game design is funny in that way. What does a system reward the players doing? What mechanics are granular, and which are glossed over? What does it encourage the participants to do?
Is it greedy to ask that D&D grow a little wider to accommodate some more dreams? :)
I'd prefer that they spell out what you can't do during a short rest than what you can. That gives the players a lot more freedom. Want to play cards? Tune your banjo? Do some light reading? Slather on some ointment? Patrol the campsite perimeter? Parlor tricks? Anything that doesn't fall under the headings of casting a leveled spell or strenuous activity would be fair game, even something that takes the full hour of downtime to do.
The only exception would be unintuitive things that are intended to coincide with a short rest, like item attunement - they can spell that out to make sure new players know that's the intended means of activation.
I'm pretty done with "make big numbers go up" mindset, just chasing higher damage numbers or... uh... the regional equivalent of their chosen role. So, instead I want to explore more laterally, make the system support non-combat skills and actions further. I've often heard this argument that D&D is merely a wargame with some roleplaying elements stapled on as an afterthought, but there's really no need for it to stay that way forever. And systems don't need to be zero-sum either, right? It's possible to expand and reward an aspect of a game without it infringing on another side of it (saliently: combat).
Though, I'm willing to admit these ideas may come from other RPGs cross-pollinating my brainplaces. I see mechanics I like in games like Blades in the Dark, Mage, or Candela Obscura, and it makes my homebrewing heart go pitterpatter.
Game design is funny in that way. What does a system reward the players doing? What mechanics are granular, and which are glossed over? What does it encourage the participants to do?
Is it greedy to ask that D&D grow a little wider to accommodate some more dreams? :)
You're not alone. My biggest gripe are actually about skills and proficiencies. And now due to a DM conversation, I want effects that creatures do to be more varied (like in the example someone else gave, the undead permanently aging you, or it could be alternative means of dying),
Role play is more interesting than combat with calculators.
I think they need to make it where everyone understands that the 1 hour standard of short rests isn't a hard and fast unchangeable rule. And encourage people to change the length and narrative of a short rest to match their table so that the mechanics don't get in the way of the narrative.
I think they need to make it where everyone understands that the 1 hour standard of short rests isn't a hard and fast unchangeable rule. And encourage people to change the length and narrative of a short rest to match their table so that the mechanics don't get in the way of the narrative.
You know, Quilly, I really feel like you're touching an important point here. From the get-go, the basic rulebook ought to instruct all the players (DM is a player too) how to make adjustments to fit the style and temperament of the group. Encourage them that the book gives a foundation to build their own game upon. Tried, true, reliable, predictable - but also a fertile field that they can tweak. Even give examples of popular tweaks, like group initiative, altered rest times, action use for certain things (bonus action chug!). Just a few sidebars that remind the reader that this is their game now.
Like the great philosopher Bob Ross said
"There are no mistakes, just happy little accidents. This is your world. You can do whatever you want with it."
I think they need to make it where everyone understands that the 1 hour standard of short rests isn't a hard and fast unchangeable rule. And encourage people to change the length and narrative of a short rest to match their table so that the mechanics don't get in the way of the narrative.
You know, Quilly, I really feel like you're touching an important point here. From the get-go, the basic rulebook ought to instruct all the players (DM is a player too) how to make adjustments to fit the style and temperament of the group.
Not the players... the DM and the dmg.
Not to say players don't need guidance, but rulings and setting are DM, players...
Players need instruction on how to actually role play.
All that fluff from the dmg needs to be put towards players.
Meaning they need to understand how to play characters with weaknesses, and how weakness can be a good thing rp wise.they need to understand locations and settings and what possible consequences or rewards their might be for doing things in a setting.
They need encouragement to see problems from another angle.
Psyren's point IS valid in that ok, the DM is going g to let us take a short rest, what can the player role play within that time period.
Teach them to play a role and not just a video game mannequin that moves across the scenery.
I think they need to make it where everyone understands that the 1 hour standard of short rests isn't a hard and fast unchangeable rule. And encourage people to change the length and narrative of a short rest to match their table so that the mechanics don't get in the way of the narrative.
You know, Quilly, I really feel like you're touching an important point here. From the get-go, the basic rulebook ought to instruct all the players (DM is a player too) how to make adjustments to fit the style and temperament of the group. Encourage them that the book gives a foundation to build their own game upon. Tried, true, reliable, predictable - but also a fertile field that they can tweak. Even give examples of popular tweaks, like group initiative, altered rest times, action use for certain things (bonus action chug!). Just a few sidebars that remind the reader that this is their game now.
Like the great philosopher Bob Ross said
"There are no mistakes, just happy little accidents. This is your world. You can do whatever you want with it."
"You can just, like, do whatever" is a nice sentiment (I have a tie-dye shirt stashed away somewhere) but again, they still designed resource constraints like spell slots and item charges under certain assumptions. Monkeying with those assumptions has unintended consequences even if we stick with 2014 5e; things like Coffeelock are bad enough with SRs needing an hour.
I think they need to make it where everyone understands that the 1 hour standard of short rests isn't a hard and fast unchangeable rule. And encourage people to change the length and narrative of a short rest to match their table so that the mechanics don't get in the way of the narrative.
You know, Quilly, I really feel like you're touching an important point here. From the get-go, the basic rulebook ought to instruct all the players (DM is a player too) how to make adjustments to fit the style and temperament of the group. Encourage them that the book gives a foundation to build their own game upon. Tried, true, reliable, predictable - but also a fertile field that they can tweak. Even give examples of popular tweaks, like group initiative, altered rest times, action use for certain things (bonus action chug!). Just a few sidebars that remind the reader that this is their game now.
Like the great philosopher Bob Ross said
"There are no mistakes, just happy little accidents. This is your world. You can do whatever you want with it."
"You can just, like, do whatever" is a nice sentiment (I have a tie-dye shirt stashed away somewhere) but again, they still designed resource constraints like spell slots and item charges under certain assumptions. Monkeying with those assumptions has unintended consequences even if we stick with 2014 5e; things like Coffeelock are bad enough with SRs needing an hour.
With the base assumption that people will have 6 to 8 medium encounters an Adventuring day and at the very least will never have more than 1/3 the adventuring days XP budget in a single multi-part encounter.
If you are going to argue one balance assumption than you need to acknowledge the other. If you know part one is going to be adjustable, than you have to acknowledge part 2 is adjustable as well. Different tables are different and NEED different things, novel statement.
The 6-8 encounter thing is a separate issue though (and keep in mind, "encounter" there doesn't necessarily mean combat encounter.) I don't actually think they designed the resources around that particular assumption, none of their printed modules seem to use it. But 2 hour-long SR per LR is much easier to see.
Hey, in my defence, I never claimed this was a GOOD idea. However, as with many things, someone else - a gifted, beautiful person who doesn't fight in the arena of logic unarmed like me - might take inspiration from my madness and run with it. Iterate upon it. And maybe even present us with something worthwhile in the future? :)
I'm just the gardener in this backyard of imagination - what you do with the flowers you pick here is up to you. But thanks for the honest criticism! :D
Check out Forbidden Lands or other RPGs that have a stronger exploration/survival mechanic. They have mechanisms along the lines of what you are talking about. The traveling day is split into quarters and you can do a number of activities each quarter. Sometimes you can do more than one (for example someone can be moving and scouting at the same time). Setting up camp is an action that takes up a quarter (and can fail!)
I'm not saying this is the solution either, just trying to give you a few seedlings for that garden!
I'm pretty sure that I, or one of the many people I have gamed with, have done these things and even more during a SR. I can't remember having a DM who didn't go around the table when the group decided to rest and ask each individual what they were going to do. Keep in mind that this does come with its own problems as well.
A player that goes off scouting is essentially splitting the party, and therefore could have a long, drawn-out encounter/scene that bores the rest of the group.
A player on guard duty is explicitly looking for trouble, and this discovered trouble could negate the SR for everyone that gets involved.
Player(s) playing a game of chance could get caught cheating, drawing everyone in the area into an argument and negating the SR when a brawl starts.
I don't think the problem is a lack of actions or rules, just the inability of most modern players to think beyond the limited options that a game designer can write on a piece of paper.
Now, the PH says that I need to take an hour-long rest before I can regain my ability to Post another comment. See you all at the next encounter!
I think my original idea was mostly about giving every class a "thing" they could do during a short rest. Many classes have "recover x" as part of taking a short rest, making it extra attractive for these classes to do so. Then we have a few classes who only have "spend hit dice" as their motivation, and they might feel left out?
Either way, you make a number of valid points. And I'm totally on board with that the example features I gave are likely not the best direction to go in.
What about this premise instead: Should every class benefit from short rests in some way outside of HP recovery?
I think the question is a good one; and I would say, "no."
In many of my games the SR has become quite abused as a way to get around properly managing your limited use skills and abilities. Now, I do have to lay some of the blame on DMs who don't bother to keep track of what time it is in game. Taking too many SR could let that bad guy stay just out of tracking range, or get you into town after all of the shops have closed for the night, or just lead to that last encounter in the woods happening after dark instead of in the afternoon. There is a reason that if a magical item has charges that they recover usually at dawn and not every hour on the hour.
Also reminding people that there should be limits to how many SR can happen in day; DMs should read the rules that already exist to handle these things.
Going without a Long Rest
A long rest is never mandatory, but going without sleep does have its consequences. If you want to account for the effects of sleep deprivation on characters and creatures, use these rules.
Whenever you end a 24-hour period without finishing a long rest, you must succeed on a DC 10 Constitution saving throw or suffer one level of exhaustion.
It becomes harder to fight off exhaustion if you stay awake for multiple days. After the first 24 hours, the DC increases by 5 for each consecutive 24-hour period without a long rest. The DC resets to 10 when you finish a long rest.
So, sure, take all of the SR you want, but I might slap you with a level of exhaustion for not taking a LR at appropriate times. Or by taking a long rest you may inadvertently make the skill checks harder, or the social situation more strained.
To make an already long post come to an end, I think we should be encouraging less resting, not finding more reasons to stop a game mid-adventure when everyone is really into what's going on. I'm old, so don't hold my memory against me, but I don't remember having to sort out long vs short rests when I started playing XX years ago. My ranger could do certain numbers of things per day, and when those ran out I had to do something different, or find a safe place to hide until morning. I never complained about not recharging my "special" traits because it wasn't ever an option. Oh, and the mage constantly ran out of spells; it happened.
Looks like exhaustion is about to kick in, time to take a LR or I will no longer be able to add my proficiency bonus to my posts. Cheers!
I think the question is a good one; and I would say, "no."
In many of my games the SR has become quite abused as a way to get around properly managing your limited use skills and abilities. Now, I do have to lay some of the blame on DMs who don't bother to keep track of what time it is in game. Taking too many SR could let that bad guy stay just out of tracking range, or get you into town after all of the shops have closed for the night, or just lead to that last encounter in the woods happening after dark instead of in the afternoon. There is a reason that if a magical item has charges that they recover usually at dawn and not every hour on the hour.
Also reminding people that there should be limits to how many SR can happen in day; DMs should read the rules that already exist to handle these things.
Going without a Long Rest
A long rest is never mandatory, but going without sleep does have its consequences. If you want to account for the effects of sleep deprivation on characters and creatures, use these rules.
Whenever you end a 24-hour period without finishing a long rest, you must succeed on a DC 10 Constitution saving throw or suffer one level of exhaustion.
It becomes harder to fight off exhaustion if you stay awake for multiple days. After the first 24 hours, the DC increases by 5 for each consecutive 24-hour period without a long rest. The DC resets to 10 when you finish a long rest.
So, sure, take all of the SR you want, but I might slap you with a level of exhaustion for not taking a LR at appropriate times. Or by taking a long rest you may inadvertently make the skill checks harder, or the social situation more strained.
To make an already long post come to an end, I think we should be encouraging less resting, not finding more reasons to stop a game mid-adventure when everyone is really into what's going on. I'm old, so don't hold my memory against me, but I don't remember having to sort out long vs short rests when I started playing XX years ago. My ranger could do certain numbers of things per day, and when those ran out I had to do something different, or find a safe place to hide until morning. I never complained about not recharging my "special" traits because it wasn't ever an option. Oh, and the mage constantly ran out of spells; it happened.
Looks like exhaustion is about to kick in, time to take a LR or I will no longer be able to add my proficiency bonus to my posts. Cheers!
In one game I am running I have allowed the SR to be much shorter (10 minutes) mostly because I don't like the narrative disruption, BUT I limit them to proficiency-bonus times per long-rest at most. We are at level 8 right now and the limit hasn't really come into play. Usually they take 1-2 short rests between long rests and taking more isn't super beneficial (the party is a little more long rest dependent than many might be so the limiting factor tends to be running out of hit dice more than the PB limit).
I'm happy with the narrative improvement though.
FWIW, I think longer SR are also cool but then narratively I'd want them to "do more" which is why I liked this thread.
I think it fall into how much you wanna keep track of thing and how rushed are you with the story, its possible to narrate so many little things that it feels alive but it get to the point it slow down the game . EX
You find a place to stay the night in the open and u do a short/long rest and gloss over what everyone do with a quick question.
But you can go ahead and talk about setting tent and camp fire, the weather, food, tending to wounds(hit die).
It goes down to how much of a rush or creative ppl are in the games which cause most of the exploration rules to be glossed over which eliminate narrative and encounters which use the different features of the classes and backgrounds.
When was the last time your players got exhaustion for lack of food?
Got hurt by bad cooking on the camp fire since no one got cooking proficiency?
Sleep disrupted by bad weather
Getting lost on the open fields because none decided to buy a map?
Most of this get hand waved for simplicity then ppl complain why exploration is boring.
Edit: Its more of being a Hero in a rush to save the world than an adventurer enjoying his travels which make most campaigns end in less than a month in game time after two actual years. we got a lot of other mechanics that are ignored bcoz they take too long to use CRAFTING and now BASTION, though with Bastion I can see more ways for DM to make game longer in game time and obtain even more hooks.
So, many classes have resources they regain on a short rest: wizards perform their arcane recovery, clerics check the bandwidth of with their divine service provider, and so on. But we also have a few classes that just sit around drawing in the sand while they wait for the rest of the group to get their act together.
And as such, I present the framework of a new mechanic:
Short Rest Actions
So. We have actions, Bonus Actions, Reactions. We have downtime actions. Now, let's weaponise Short Rests as a form of action. Abbreviated SRA, for our convenience.
We have the basic SRAs:
Health Recovery: Spend 1 or more Hit Dice. This can be done while also taking another SRA that requires no strenuous activity.
Attune an Item: Gain the benefit of a magical item that requires attunement.
We also have class-specific SRAs (for example):
Arcane Recovery (Wizard): Regain a number of spell slots of a combined level equal to or less than half your Wizard level (rounded up).
Channel Divinity (Cleric): Regain one use of your channel divinity feature.
Now, let's run with this idea a bit further. Take the rogue, for instance. What do they do during a Short Rest, if they don't need or have any Hit Dice to spend? Barring subclass options or specific feats... not a whole lot. But what if they could?
Scout Ahead (Rogue): You learn basic information about any creatures, structures, obstacles, and other observable features in a chosen adjacent area, up to a maximum distance of 20 ft per rogue level from your camp. (Just placeholder numbers :) )
Guard Duty (Ranger): You become aware of any creatures approaching the camp as if under the effect of an Alarm spell, with a range of up 10 ft per ranger level. Your Passive Perception is increased by 5 during your guard duty. (More placeholders!)
Yes, sure, these are actions that can be taken by any any character through roleplaying. Wouldn't it be nice, though, if classes already geared toward these things could achieve even more doing it, giving them a firm role in these situations? Add a little extra to that class identity?
DM: "Okay, you settle down at the far side of the glen. Cassie, you regain your spell slot. Mark, you learn that there's likely some hobgoblins patrolling further ahead in the valley. Eithne, you spot a snake looking to make a meal out of Cassie's rat familiar. Oh, and Jacob..."
Jacob: "I sing a Song of Rest!"
DM: "No you don't. That feature was taken out, remember?"
Jacob: "I sing a song of unrest..."
As a rogue I'm not for this. First of all, it's ranger behavior, second it's just what you would naturally do in your movement.
You're also cutting down on attunement requirements, which... meh. I'm not concerned with it.
Besides, outside of healing and slots, there's nothing that a rest (short or long) that can't be done normally. They're literally just recharge mechanics.
Hey, in my defence, I never claimed this was a GOOD idea. However, as with many things, someone else - a gifted, beautiful person who doesn't fight in the arena of logic unarmed like me - might take inspiration from my madness and run with it. Iterate upon it. And maybe even present us with something worthwhile in the future? :)
I'm just the gardener in this backyard of imagination - what you do with the flowers you pick here is up to you. But thanks for the honest criticism! :D
No worries.
I think people just want their characters more powerful.
Caster classes wield some crazy powerful spells that are almost mind melting in the game, and the trade off is they can only do it so many times before they have to pick up a weapon and at least hold their ground.
Melee classes these days generally have resources with their skills but aren't dependent upon the resources skills to donate decent amount of damage, and the trade off is that they don't do mind melting stuff.
So playing a caster means playing a resource game.
But casters want the power but don't want the resource game. They just want to terrorize the town with their godlike powers.
But for as intelligent or charming or as wise those casters are, they don't get that restrictions are what makes it fun.
It's why people people like doing trick shots or why tic tac toe is boring. Life's less fun on easy mode. (Though financial hard mode is not fun for anyone. And life's hard mode should be being a good person).
Idk. I think casters ask for too much.
I'm pretty done with "make big numbers go up" mindset, just chasing higher damage numbers or... uh... the regional equivalent of their chosen role. So, instead I want to explore more laterally, make the system support non-combat skills and actions further. I've often heard this argument that D&D is merely a wargame with some roleplaying elements stapled on as an afterthought, but there's really no need for it to stay that way forever. And systems don't need to be zero-sum either, right? It's possible to expand and reward an aspect of a game without it infringing on another side of it (saliently: combat).
Though, I'm willing to admit these ideas may come from other RPGs cross-pollinating my brainplaces. I see mechanics I like in games like Blades in the Dark, Mage, or Candela Obscura, and it makes my homebrewing heart go pitterpatter.
Game design is funny in that way. What does a system reward the players doing? What mechanics are granular, and which are glossed over? What does it encourage the participants to do?
Is it greedy to ask that D&D grow a little wider to accommodate some more dreams? :)
I'd prefer that they spell out what you can't do during a short rest than what you can. That gives the players a lot more freedom. Want to play cards? Tune your banjo? Do some light reading? Slather on some ointment? Patrol the campsite perimeter? Parlor tricks? Anything that doesn't fall under the headings of casting a leveled spell or strenuous activity would be fair game, even something that takes the full hour of downtime to do.
The only exception would be unintuitive things that are intended to coincide with a short rest, like item attunement - they can spell that out to make sure new players know that's the intended means of activation.
You're not alone. My biggest gripe are actually about skills and proficiencies. And now due to a DM conversation, I want effects that creatures do to be more varied (like in the example someone else gave, the undead permanently aging you, or it could be alternative means of dying),
Role play is more interesting than combat with calculators.
I think they need to make it where everyone understands that the 1 hour standard of short rests isn't a hard and fast unchangeable rule. And encourage people to change the length and narrative of a short rest to match their table so that the mechanics don't get in the way of the narrative.
You know, Quilly, I really feel like you're touching an important point here. From the get-go, the basic rulebook ought to instruct all the players (DM is a player too) how to make adjustments to fit the style and temperament of the group. Encourage them that the book gives a foundation to build their own game upon. Tried, true, reliable, predictable - but also a fertile field that they can tweak. Even give examples of popular tweaks, like group initiative, altered rest times, action use for certain things (bonus action chug!). Just a few sidebars that remind the reader that this is their game now.
Like the great philosopher Bob Ross said
"There are no mistakes, just happy little accidents. This is your world. You can do whatever you want with it."
Not the players... the DM and the dmg.
Not to say players don't need guidance, but rulings and setting are DM, players...
Players need instruction on how to actually role play.
All that fluff from the dmg needs to be put towards players.
Meaning they need to understand how to play characters with weaknesses, and how weakness can be a good thing rp wise.they need to understand locations and settings and what possible consequences or rewards their might be for doing things in a setting.
They need encouragement to see problems from another angle.
Psyren's point IS valid in that ok, the DM is going g to let us take a short rest, what can the player role play within that time period.
Teach them to play a role and not just a video game mannequin that moves across the scenery.
"You can just, like, do whatever" is a nice sentiment (I have a tie-dye shirt stashed away somewhere) but again, they still designed resource constraints like spell slots and item charges under certain assumptions. Monkeying with those assumptions has unintended consequences even if we stick with 2014 5e; things like Coffeelock are bad enough with SRs needing an hour.
With the base assumption that people will have 6 to 8 medium encounters an Adventuring day and at the very least will never have more than 1/3 the adventuring days XP budget in a single multi-part encounter.
If you are going to argue one balance assumption than you need to acknowledge the other. If you know part one is going to be adjustable, than you have to acknowledge part 2 is adjustable as well. Different tables are different and NEED different things, novel statement.
The 6-8 encounter thing is a separate issue though (and keep in mind, "encounter" there doesn't necessarily mean combat encounter.) I don't actually think they designed the resources around that particular assumption, none of their printed modules seem to use it. But 2 hour-long SR per LR is much easier to see.
Check out Forbidden Lands or other RPGs that have a stronger exploration/survival mechanic. They have mechanisms along the lines of what you are talking about. The traveling day is split into quarters and you can do a number of activities each quarter. Sometimes you can do more than one (for example someone can be moving and scouting at the same time). Setting up camp is an action that takes up a quarter (and can fail!)
I'm not saying this is the solution either, just trying to give you a few seedlings for that garden!
I'm pretty sure that I, or one of the many people I have gamed with, have done these things and even more during a SR. I can't remember having a DM who didn't go around the table when the group decided to rest and ask each individual what they were going to do. Keep in mind that this does come with its own problems as well.
I don't think the problem is a lack of actions or rules, just the inability of most modern players to think beyond the limited options that a game designer can write on a piece of paper.
Now, the PH says that I need to take an hour-long rest before I can regain my ability to Post another comment. See you all at the next encounter!
Hi T-C, and welcome to the forums! :)
I think my original idea was mostly about giving every class a "thing" they could do during a short rest. Many classes have "recover x" as part of taking a short rest, making it extra attractive for these classes to do so. Then we have a few classes who only have "spend hit dice" as their motivation, and they might feel left out?
Either way, you make a number of valid points. And I'm totally on board with that the example features I gave are likely not the best direction to go in.
What about this premise instead: Should every class benefit from short rests in some way outside of HP recovery?
I think the question is a good one; and I would say, "no."
In many of my games the SR has become quite abused as a way to get around properly managing your limited use skills and abilities. Now, I do have to lay some of the blame on DMs who don't bother to keep track of what time it is in game. Taking too many SR could let that bad guy stay just out of tracking range, or get you into town after all of the shops have closed for the night, or just lead to that last encounter in the woods happening after dark instead of in the afternoon. There is a reason that if a magical item has charges that they recover usually at dawn and not every hour on the hour.
Also reminding people that there should be limits to how many SR can happen in day; DMs should read the rules that already exist to handle these things.
Going without a Long Rest
A long rest is never mandatory, but going without sleep does have its consequences. If you want to account for the effects of sleep deprivation on characters and creatures, use these rules.
Whenever you end a 24-hour period without finishing a long rest, you must succeed on a DC 10 Constitution saving throw or suffer one level of exhaustion.
It becomes harder to fight off exhaustion if you stay awake for multiple days. After the first 24 hours, the DC increases by 5 for each consecutive 24-hour period without a long rest. The DC resets to 10 when you finish a long rest.
So, sure, take all of the SR you want, but I might slap you with a level of exhaustion for not taking a LR at appropriate times. Or by taking a long rest you may inadvertently make the skill checks harder, or the social situation more strained.
To make an already long post come to an end, I think we should be encouraging less resting, not finding more reasons to stop a game mid-adventure when everyone is really into what's going on. I'm old, so don't hold my memory against me, but I don't remember having to sort out long vs short rests when I started playing XX years ago. My ranger could do certain numbers of things per day, and when those ran out I had to do something different, or find a safe place to hide until morning. I never complained about not recharging my "special" traits because it wasn't ever an option. Oh, and the mage constantly ran out of spells; it happened.
Looks like exhaustion is about to kick in, time to take a LR or I will no longer be able to add my proficiency bonus to my posts. Cheers!
In one game I am running I have allowed the SR to be much shorter (10 minutes) mostly because I don't like the narrative disruption, BUT I limit them to proficiency-bonus times per long-rest at most. We are at level 8 right now and the limit hasn't really come into play. Usually they take 1-2 short rests between long rests and taking more isn't super beneficial (the party is a little more long rest dependent than many might be so the limiting factor tends to be running out of hit dice more than the PB limit).
I'm happy with the narrative improvement though.
FWIW, I think longer SR are also cool but then narratively I'd want them to "do more" which is why I liked this thread.
I think it fall into how much you wanna keep track of thing and how rushed are you with the story, its possible to narrate so many little things that it feels alive but it get to the point it slow down the game . EX
You find a place to stay the night in the open and u do a short/long rest and gloss over what everyone do with a quick question.
But you can go ahead and talk about setting tent and camp fire, the weather, food, tending to wounds(hit die).
It goes down to how much of a rush or creative ppl are in the games which cause most of the exploration rules to be glossed over which eliminate narrative and encounters which use the different features of the classes and backgrounds.
Most of this get hand waved for simplicity then ppl complain why exploration is boring.
Edit: Its more of being a Hero in a rush to save the world than an adventurer enjoying his travels which make most campaigns end in less than a month in game time after two actual years. we got a lot of other mechanics that are ignored bcoz they take too long to use CRAFTING and now BASTION, though with Bastion I can see more ways for DM to make game longer in game time and obtain even more hooks.