If magic items are banned, social rewards suck, and gold is meaningless much past level 6, what's left? Why adventure past level 6, if you're never going to get anything for it? Beyond the whole "the world will end and you live here" deal, which fine - but there's only so many times you can threaten the PCs' stuff that way before they start getting ugly, ne?
Call me naive or idealistic, but since the rules themselves tell us that magic items are entirely optional, my assumption is that the reward for adventuring is leveling up and getting cool new spells/abilities/feats. This seems especially self-evident when multiple classes gain the ability to overcome resistance to damage from nonmagical weapons around level 5 or so.
I agree that gold itself, as used in the 2014 rules, is a fairly poor motivator beyond a certain point. In Tier 1, it remains a big motivator so that you can buy better armor, more healing potions, etc. But as you say: once you hit level 6 and beyond, gold just isn't a good motivator.
But getting higher level spells is. Getting more hit points is. Getting new invocations or martial abilities or class features is.
We can debate about whether those are effective motivators or not - but it seems clear that the game is explicitly designed to reward advancement not with magic items but expanded capabilities.
For all this massive debate on the Crafting its probably the main reason why Artificer is not and will never be a core class.
Eh, Artificer partly bypasses the crafting issue with their Infusions; gives the crafting flavor, but bounded in the hard limits of a class feature. Plus three of the four classes have their own custom items on top of that (if we're counting the Steel Defender robot buddy as an "item"). It's absence from the PHB is partly based on their having this hypothetical 4-way division between Experts, Warriors, Priests, and Mages, and partly simply because they know lots of people will buy whatever book it's next published in solely for the class.
[insert righteous rage that a business dares to plan out future projects and not place everything the consumers could ever want in a single product that they then sell at or below cost below]
Gotta keep in mind that aside from infusion there are quite a few features in the class that are specific to crafting.
I see one feature at level 10 that makes crafting common and uncommon items easier, which are also the items people don't really complain about when it comes to crafting. That's all I can find for crafting besides tool proficiencies or making tools themselves magically appear.
Artificers also have “expertise” with all their tools and 5th or 6th so any checks the DM makes them attempt to craft an object are more likely to succeed.
Also a solid crafting system involve a solid economics and logistic of each map you are provided. All this add to the flesh of the World and make sense of the needs of the players AND NPCS, which provide hooks and reason to why we go to war and the need to eliminate certain monsters from the area to procure resources.
AEDorsay mention it above that coinage need a rework since u could pretty much play the game a lot and only use gold or platinum since there is no reason to use anything else, No solid economics and logistic devalue aspects of the game.
I rather err that they create a better crafting system and HAVE THE OPTION TO NO USE IT than to no have it and need it, thats my only gripe with my fellow players that dont want a crafting system at all.
The more we remove from the game the more linear it turns, ppl already hand wave exploration a lot of exploration from point A to B which kill the need to take certain feats and items.
For all this massive debate on the Crafting its probably the main reason why Artificer is not and will never be a core class.
Eh, Artificer partly bypasses the crafting issue with their Infusions; gives the crafting flavor, but bounded in the hard limits of a class feature. Plus three of the four classes have their own custom items on top of that (if we're counting the Steel Defender robot buddy as an "item"). It's absence from the PHB is partly based on their having this hypothetical 4-way division between Experts, Warriors, Priests, and Mages, and partly simply because they know lots of people will buy whatever book it's next published in solely for the class.
[insert righteous rage that a business dares to plan out future projects and not place everything the consumers could ever want in a single product that they then sell at or below cost below]
Gotta keep in mind that aside from infusion there are quite a few features in the class that are specific to crafting.
I see one feature at level 10 that makes crafting common and uncommon items easier, which are also the items people don't really complain about when it comes to crafting. That's all I can find for crafting besides tool proficiencies or making tools themselves magically appear.
If we follow what you say lets eliminate tools as well since they are related to crafting even if they got other uses.
If magic items are banned, social rewards suck, and gold is meaningless much past level 6, what's left? Why adventure past level 6, if you're never going to get anything for it? Beyond the whole "the world will end and you live here" deal, which fine - but there's only so many times you can threaten the PCs' stuff that way before they start getting ugly, ne?
Call me naive or idealistic, but since the rules themselves tell us that magic items are entirely optional, my assumption is that the reward for adventuring is leveling up and getting cool new spells/abilities/feats. This seems especially self-evident when multiple classes gain the ability to overcome resistance to damage from nonmagical weapons around level 5 or so.
I agree that gold itself, as used in the 2014 rules, is a fairly poor motivator beyond a certain point. In Tier 1, it remains a big motivator so that you can buy better armor, more healing potions, etc. But as you say: once you hit level 6 and beyond, gold just isn't a good motivator.
But getting higher level spells is. Getting more hit points is. Getting new invocations or martial abilities or class features is.
We can debate about whether those are effective motivators or not - but it seems clear that the game is explicitly designed to reward advancement not with magic items but expanded capabilities.
These reason are very metagamy, to me the more we remove the more this turn into a hack and slash for only combat and random roleplay interaction, I though this game was about Role playing in a different world and the decision to keep adventuring gotta be either for something to gain or personal reason of the PC.
These reason are very metagamy, to me the more we remove the more this turn into a hack and slash for only combat and random roleplay interaction, I though this game was about Role playing in a different world and the decision to keep adventuring gotta be either for something to gain or personal reason of the PC.
Usually my groups adventure because we want to defeat some villain or other, or solve a mystery or something; even my group in a Waterdeep campaign, who really just want to run a pub, have a villain they'd like to get rid of before he becomes more than a nuisance.
Levelling up and getting magic items are just bonuses. Loot and wealth are good motivators for side-quests, but a main quest shouldn't require either to convince the players to keep going IMO.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
I would say that the way I'd prefer to do Bastion points is something like
Bastion Turns, Bastion Events and Bastion Points
A bastion turn is an arbitrary length of time, sufficient for a single roll on Bastion Events. At the end of a Bastion Turn, you have the ability to spend Bastion Points. For an established lord that might be yearly, but a group of upstart PCs might have to deal with them monthly or even weekly.
A bastion event is... something of importance that happens at your bastion. Usually, this is a challenge of some sort. This could be a threat, but it also might not be -- if the PCs discover that they've been 'honored' with responsibility for the Festival of Blah, well, that's still a challenge. In any case, successfully navigating the challenge gains bastion points, and failing to do so loses bastion points (or possibly has other consequences). Bastion points are not generated for simple passage of time.
Gotta keep in mind that aside from infusion there are quite a few features in the class that are specific to crafting.
Ish? Like, there's Magical Tinkering, which is more like Artificer's version of Prestigitation for Infusions; I'm more inclined to call this one an Infusion-lite than a crafting ability. The Right Tool for the Job lets you effectively make more tools, though downtime where you do'nt have access to proper tools already is a bit niche. Tool Expertise curiously does not apply to crafting, but to other rolls that you're using tools with - crafting doesn't have rolls. Magic Item Adept actually improves your direct crafting ability. Spell storing item is like an Infusion for a scroll or potion for level 1/2 spells... at character level 11.
Sure, there's quite a few abilities that aren't directly called Infusions, but they effectively created like one - hold object, infuse with magic. Or seem like they would help crafting (Tool Expertise) but actually don't. Or are redundant if you actually just have or just buy the tools you need for crafting during downtime.
Which means that, when all is said and done, Magic Item Adept is the ONLY ability that people will generally use from the base class that directly helps crafting. And most games end around that level, so its an ability you're getting when you're running out of downtime to craft with, so I imagine its quite rare to even use that.
I would say that the way I'd prefer to do Bastion points is something like
Bastion Turns, Bastion Events and Bastion Points
A bastion turn is an arbitrary length of time, sufficient for a single roll on Bastion Events. At the end of a Bastion Turn, you have the ability to spend Bastion Points. For an established lord that might be yearly, but a group of upstart PCs might have to deal with them monthly or even weekly.
A bastion event is... something of importance that happens at your bastion. Usually, this is a challenge of some sort. This could be a threat, but it also might not be -- if the PCs discover that they've been 'honored' with responsibility for the Festival of Blah, well, that's still a challenge. In any case, successfully navigating the challenge gains bastion points, and failing to do so loses bastion points (or possibly has other consequences). Bastion points are not generated for simple passage of time.
Would Renown be a better currency instead of Bastion points? Renown is more related to your achievements.
Gotta keep in mind that aside from infusion there are quite a few features in the class that are specific to crafting.
Ish? Like, there's Magical Tinkering, which is more like Artificer's version of Prestigitation for Infusions; I'm more inclined to call this one an Infusion-lite than a crafting ability. The Right Tool for the Job lets you effectively make more tools, though downtime where you do'nt have access to proper tools already is a bit niche. Tool Expertise curiously does not apply to crafting, but to other rolls that you're using tools with - crafting doesn't have rolls. Magic Item Adept actually improves your direct crafting ability. Spell storing item is like an Infusion for a scroll or potion for level 1/2 spells... at character level 11.
Sure, there's quite a few abilities that aren't directly called Infusions, but they effectively created like one - hold object, infuse with magic. Or seem like they would help crafting (Tool Expertise) but actually don't. Or are redundant if you actually just have or just buy the tools you need for crafting during downtime.
Which means that, when all is said and done, Magic Item Adept is the ONLY ability that people will generally use from the base class that directly helps crafting. And most games end around that level, so its an ability you're getting when you're running out of downtime to craft with, so I imagine its quite rare to even use that.
I stand corrected. That would require a change of feat and theme would lose a bit since Artificer is a Craftsman to a point, though Infusions would cover that itch of pseudo crafting items.
For all this massive debate on the Crafting its probably the main reason why Artificer is not and will never be a core class.
Eh, Artificer partly bypasses the crafting issue with their Infusions; gives the crafting flavor, but bounded in the hard limits of a class feature. Plus three of the four classes have their own custom items on top of that (if we're counting the Steel Defender robot buddy as an "item"). It's absence from the PHB is partly based on their having this hypothetical 4-way division between Experts, Warriors, Priests, and Mages, and partly simply because they know lots of people will buy whatever book it's next published in solely for the class.
[insert righteous rage that a business dares to plan out future projects and not place everything the consumers could ever want in a single product that they then sell at or below cost below]
Gotta keep in mind that aside from infusion there are quite a few features in the class that are specific to crafting.
I see one feature at level 10 that makes crafting common and uncommon items easier, which are also the items people don't really complain about when it comes to crafting. That's all I can find for crafting besides tool proficiencies or making tools themselves magically appear.
If we follow what you say lets eliminate tools as well since they are related to crafting even if they got other uses.
Uh, would you care to explain the logic behind that particular sequence?
These reason are very metagamy, to me the more we remove the more this turn into a hack and slash for only combat and random roleplay interaction, I though this game was about Role playing in a different world and the decision to keep adventuring gotta be either for something to gain or personal reason of the PC.
Usually my groups adventure because we want to defeat some villain or other, or solve a mystery or something; even my group in a Waterdeep campaign, who really just want to run a pub, have a villain they'd like to get rid of before he becomes more than a nuisance.
Levelling up and getting magic items are just bonuses. Loot and wealth are good motivators for side-quests, but a main quest shouldn't require either to convince the players to keep going IMO.
Or, alternatively, the DM can create a reason for the loot. To spin off your Waterdeep example, if the players have a goal of establishing some kind of business, they'll need seed money, for one example.
For all this massive debate on the Crafting its probably the main reason why Artificer is not and will never be a core class.
Eh, Artificer partly bypasses the crafting issue with their Infusions; gives the crafting flavor, but bounded in the hard limits of a class feature. Plus three of the four classes have their own custom items on top of that (if we're counting the Steel Defender robot buddy as an "item"). It's absence from the PHB is partly based on their having this hypothetical 4-way division between Experts, Warriors, Priests, and Mages, and partly simply because they know lots of people will buy whatever book it's next published in solely for the class.
[insert righteous rage that a business dares to plan out future projects and not place everything the consumers could ever want in a single product that they then sell at or below cost below]
Gotta keep in mind that aside from infusion there are quite a few features in the class that are specific to crafting.
I see one feature at level 10 that makes crafting common and uncommon items easier, which are also the items people don't really complain about when it comes to crafting. That's all I can find for crafting besides tool proficiencies or making tools themselves magically appear.
If we follow what you say lets eliminate tools as well since they are related to crafting even if they got other uses.
Uh, would you care to explain the logic behind that particular sequence?
Was reading too much opposition to crafting that it came out there on the wrong convo, I apologize it was not directed at you, but more on the Crafting hate.
Also a solid crafting system involve a solid economics and logistic of each map you are provided. All this add to the flesh of the World and make sense of the needs of the players AND NPCS, which provide hooks and reason to why we go to war and the need to eliminate certain monsters from the area to procure resources.
AEDorsay mention it above that coinage need a rework since u could pretty much play the game a lot and only use gold or platinum since there is no reason to use anything else, No solid economics and logistic devalue aspects of the game.
I rather err that they create a better crafting system and HAVE THE OPTION TO NO USE IT than to no have it and need it, thats my only gripe with my fellow players that dont want a crafting system at all.
The more we remove from the game the more linear it turns, ppl already hand wave exploration a lot of exploration from point A to B which kill the need to take certain feats and items.
that dude sounds like me after reading some of the posts here, lol.
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Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities .-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-. An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more. Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
I swear, if I see someone else say “well, if it ain’t gold and it ain’t magic, why would they even adventure” imma hit this thread with my list of reasons to adventure. And then add more.
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Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities .-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-. An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more. Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
I swear, if I see someone else say “well, if it ain’t gold and it ain’t magic, why would they even adventure” imma hit this thread with my list of reasons to adventure. And then add more.
I mean, I'll do it if it's the only way to get you to share, but my heart just wouldn't be in it so maybe just share now and spare everyone from my mediocre performance?
For all this massive debate on the Crafting its probably the main reason why Artificer is not and will never be a core class.
artificer actually involves little to no crafting in its core design.
they have one feature related to crafting, and its basically similar to the crafter feat.
its a sub feature of magic adept and it is;
If you craft a magic item with a rarity of common or uncommon, it takes you a quarter of the normal time, and it costs you half as much of the usual gold.
Everything else they do related to items involves fake items that are actually features. From a mostly curated list of possible items.
If magic items are banned, social rewards suck, and gold is meaningless much past level 6, what's left? Why adventure past level 6, if you're never going to get anything for it? Beyond the whole "the world will end and you live here" deal, which fine - but there's only so many times you can threaten the PCs' stuff that way before they start getting ugly, ne?
Call me naive or idealistic, but since the rules themselves tell us that magic items are entirely optional, my assumption is that the reward for adventuring is leveling up and getting cool new spells/abilities/feats. This seems especially self-evident when multiple classes gain the ability to overcome resistance to damage from nonmagical weapons around level 5 or so.
I agree that gold itself, as used in the 2014 rules, is a fairly poor motivator beyond a certain point. In Tier 1, it remains a big motivator so that you can buy better armor, more healing potions, etc. But as you say: once you hit level 6 and beyond, gold just isn't a good motivator.
But getting higher level spells is. Getting more hit points is. Getting new invocations or martial abilities or class features is.
We can debate about whether those are effective motivators or not - but it seems clear that the game is explicitly designed to reward advancement not with magic items but expanded capabilities.
magic items are optional, but they are also expected/reccomended/designed they mention their existence in the phb. People need to realize virtually everything in dnd 5e is optional. Some are more optional than others. What classes are allowed in any given campaign is optional, how you reward experience or handle advancement is optional. Leveling itself is optional.
more specifically virtually every enemy after level 5 has resistance to non magic items. Virtually every class or subclass that doesnt use magical weapons gets a feature, between 5 and 7 to overcome this. Players are expected to get magical items in this level range.
The game is designed so that if you don't get magic items its playable, that doesnt mean that its designed to have no magical items. No magic items Is a minimum requirement thing.
its like magic the gathering is designed to be playable with only common cards, that doesnt mean they expect people to have no rares, or designed the balance with that in mind.
For all this massive debate on the Crafting its probably the main reason why Artificer is not and will never be a core class.
Eh, Artificer partly bypasses the crafting issue with their Infusions; gives the crafting flavor, but bounded in the hard limits of a class feature. Plus three of the four classes have their own custom items on top of that (if we're counting the Steel Defender robot buddy as an "item"). It's absence from the PHB is partly based on their having this hypothetical 4-way division between Experts, Warriors, Priests, and Mages, and partly simply because they know lots of people will buy whatever book it's next published in solely for the class.
[insert righteous rage that a business dares to plan out future projects and not place everything the consumers could ever want in a single product that they then sell at or below cost below]
Gotta keep in mind that aside from infusion there are quite a few features in the class that are specific to crafting.
I see one feature at level 10 that makes crafting common and uncommon items easier, which are also the items people don't really complain about when it comes to crafting. That's all I can find for crafting besides tool proficiencies or making tools themselves magically appear.
Artificers also have “expertise” with all their tools and 5th or 6th so any checks the DM makes them attempt to craft an object are more likely to succeed.
rolls for using tools aren't built in to any crafting system they created. XTGE optional version requires proficiency, but tool proficiency exists baseline in PHB. My point is that artificer is not really built on the idea of crafting actual items. Its more like a ribbon, that in 5e, people can get from backgrounds, ie its not the reason they aren't in the phb.
For all this massive debate on the Crafting its probably the main reason why Artificer is not and will never be a core class.
Eh, Artificer partly bypasses the crafting issue with their Infusions; gives the crafting flavor, but bounded in the hard limits of a class feature. Plus three of the four classes have their own custom items on top of that (if we're counting the Steel Defender robot buddy as an "item"). It's absence from the PHB is partly based on their having this hypothetical 4-way division between Experts, Warriors, Priests, and Mages, and partly simply because they know lots of people will buy whatever book it's next published in solely for the class.
[insert righteous rage that a business dares to plan out future projects and not place everything the consumers could ever want in a single product that they then sell at or below cost below]
Gotta keep in mind that aside from infusion there are quite a few features in the class that are specific to crafting.
I see one feature at level 10 that makes crafting common and uncommon items easier, which are also the items people don't really complain about when it comes to crafting. That's all I can find for crafting besides tool proficiencies or making tools themselves magically appear.
Artificers also have “expertise” with all their tools and 5th or 6th so any checks the DM makes them attempt to craft an object are more likely to succeed.
rolls for using tools aren't built in to any crafting system they created. XTGE optional version requires proficiency, but tool proficiency exists baseline in PHB. My point is that artificer is not really built on the idea of crafting actual items. Its more like a ribbon, that in 5e, people can get from backgrounds, ie its not the reason they aren't in the phb.
A quote from the Book itself:
Artificers in Many Worlds
Throughout the D&D multiverse, artificers create inventions and magic items of peace and war. Many lives have been brightened or saved because of the work of kind artificers, but countless lives have also been lost because of the mass destruction unleashed by certain artificers’ creations.
In the Forgotten Realms, the island of Lantan is home to many artificers, and in the world of Dragonlance, tinker gnomes are often members of this class. The strange technologies in the Barrier Peaks of the world of Greyhawk have inspired some folk to walk the path of the artificer, and in Mystara, various nations employ artificers to keep airships and other wondrous devices operational.
Artificers in the City of Sigil share discoveries from throughout the multiverse, and from there, the gnome artificer Vi runs a cosmos-spanning business that hires adventurers to fix problems that others deem unfixable. In Vi’s home world, Eberron, magic is harnessed as a form of science and deployed throughout society, largely as a result of the wondrous ingenuity of artificers.
Aside from Wizards they seems to be the reason you find most of your magic items to me or am I crazy here?
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Call me naive or idealistic, but since the rules themselves tell us that magic items are entirely optional, my assumption is that the reward for adventuring is leveling up and getting cool new spells/abilities/feats. This seems especially self-evident when multiple classes gain the ability to overcome resistance to damage from nonmagical weapons around level 5 or so.
I agree that gold itself, as used in the 2014 rules, is a fairly poor motivator beyond a certain point. In Tier 1, it remains a big motivator so that you can buy better armor, more healing potions, etc. But as you say: once you hit level 6 and beyond, gold just isn't a good motivator.
But getting higher level spells is. Getting more hit points is. Getting new invocations or martial abilities or class features is.
We can debate about whether those are effective motivators or not - but it seems clear that the game is explicitly designed to reward advancement not with magic items but expanded capabilities.
Artificers also have “expertise” with all their tools and 5th or 6th so any checks the DM makes them attempt to craft an object are more likely to succeed.
Also a solid crafting system involve a solid economics and logistic of each map you are provided. All this add to the flesh of the World and make sense of the needs of the players AND NPCS, which provide hooks and reason to why we go to war and the need to eliminate certain monsters from the area to procure resources.
AEDorsay mention it above that coinage need a rework since u could pretty much play the game a lot and only use gold or platinum since there is no reason to use anything else, No solid economics and logistic devalue aspects of the game.
I rather err that they create a better crafting system and HAVE THE OPTION TO NO USE IT than to no have it and need it, thats my only gripe with my fellow players that dont want a crafting system at all.
The more we remove from the game the more linear it turns, ppl already hand wave exploration a lot of exploration from point A to B which kill the need to take certain feats and items.
Here is the best way I saw it explained, taking out some pieces ruins the whole thing. https://theangrygm.com/exploring-by-the-rules/
If we follow what you say lets eliminate tools as well since they are related to crafting even if they got other uses.
These reason are very metagamy, to me the more we remove the more this turn into a hack and slash for only combat and random roleplay interaction, I though this game was about Role playing in a different world and the decision to keep adventuring gotta be either for something to gain or personal reason of the PC.
Usually my groups adventure because we want to defeat some villain or other, or solve a mystery or something; even my group in a Waterdeep campaign, who really just want to run a pub, have a villain they'd like to get rid of before he becomes more than a nuisance.
Levelling up and getting magic items are just bonuses. Loot and wealth are good motivators for side-quests, but a main quest shouldn't require either to convince the players to keep going IMO.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
I would say that the way I'd prefer to do Bastion points is something like
Ish? Like, there's Magical Tinkering, which is more like Artificer's version of Prestigitation for Infusions; I'm more inclined to call this one an Infusion-lite than a crafting ability. The Right Tool for the Job lets you effectively make more tools, though downtime where you do'nt have access to proper tools already is a bit niche. Tool Expertise curiously does not apply to crafting, but to other rolls that you're using tools with - crafting doesn't have rolls. Magic Item Adept actually improves your direct crafting ability. Spell storing item is like an Infusion for a scroll or potion for level 1/2 spells... at character level 11.
Sure, there's quite a few abilities that aren't directly called Infusions, but they effectively created like one - hold object, infuse with magic. Or seem like they would help crafting (Tool Expertise) but actually don't. Or are redundant if you actually just have or just buy the tools you need for crafting during downtime.
Which means that, when all is said and done, Magic Item Adept is the ONLY ability that people will generally use from the base class that directly helps crafting. And most games end around that level, so its an ability you're getting when you're running out of downtime to craft with, so I imagine its quite rare to even use that.
Would Renown be a better currency instead of Bastion points? Renown is more related to your achievements.
I stand corrected. That would require a change of feat and theme would lose a bit since Artificer is a Craftsman to a point, though Infusions would cover that itch of pseudo crafting items.
Uh, would you care to explain the logic behind that particular sequence?
Or, alternatively, the DM can create a reason for the loot. To spin off your Waterdeep example, if the players have a goal of establishing some kind of business, they'll need seed money, for one example.
Was reading too much opposition to crafting that it came out there on the wrong convo, I apologize it was not directed at you, but more on the Crafting hate.
that dude sounds like me after reading some of the posts here, lol.
Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities
.-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-.
An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more.
Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
I swear, if I see someone else say “well, if it ain’t gold and it ain’t magic, why would they even adventure” imma hit this thread with my list of reasons to adventure. And then add more.
Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities
.-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-.
An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more.
Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
I mean, I'll do it if it's the only way to get you to share, but my heart just wouldn't be in it so maybe just share now and spare everyone from my mediocre performance?
artificer actually involves little to no crafting in its core design.
they have one feature related to crafting, and its basically similar to the crafter feat.
its a sub feature of magic adept and it is;
Everything else they do related to items involves fake items that are actually features. From a mostly curated list of possible items.
magic items are optional, but they are also expected/reccomended/designed they mention their existence in the phb. People need to realize virtually everything in dnd 5e is optional. Some are more optional than others. What classes are allowed in any given campaign is optional, how you reward experience or handle advancement is optional. Leveling itself is optional.
more specifically virtually every enemy after level 5 has resistance to non magic items. Virtually every class or subclass that doesnt use magical weapons gets a feature, between 5 and 7 to overcome this. Players are expected to get magical items in this level range.
The game is designed so that if you don't get magic items its playable, that doesnt mean that its designed to have no magical items. No magic items Is a minimum requirement thing.
its like magic the gathering is designed to be playable with only common cards, that doesnt mean they expect people to have no rares, or designed the balance with that in mind.
rolls for using tools aren't built in to any crafting system they created. XTGE optional version requires proficiency, but tool proficiency exists baseline in PHB. My point is that artificer is not really built on the idea of crafting actual items. Its more like a ribbon, that in 5e, people can get from backgrounds, ie its not the reason they aren't in the phb.
A quote from the Book itself:
Artificers in Many Worlds
Throughout the D&D multiverse, artificers create inventions and magic items of peace and war. Many lives have been brightened or saved because of the work of kind artificers, but countless lives have also been lost because of the mass destruction unleashed by certain artificers’ creations.
In the Forgotten Realms, the island of Lantan is home to many artificers, and in the world of Dragonlance, tinker gnomes are often members of this class. The strange technologies in the Barrier Peaks of the world of Greyhawk have inspired some folk to walk the path of the artificer, and in Mystara, various nations employ artificers to keep airships and other wondrous devices operational.
Artificers in the City of Sigil share discoveries from throughout the multiverse, and from there, the gnome artificer Vi runs a cosmos-spanning business that hires adventurers to fix problems that others deem unfixable. In Vi’s home world, Eberron, magic is harnessed as a form of science and deployed throughout society, largely as a result of the wondrous ingenuity of artificers.
Aside from Wizards they seems to be the reason you find most of your magic items to me or am I crazy here?