If magic items are banned, social rewards suck, and gold is meaningless much past level 6, what's left? Why adventure past level 6, if you're never going to get anything for it? Beyond the whole "the world will end and you live here" deal, which fine - but there's only so many times you can threaten the PCs' stuff that way before they start getting ugly, ne?
Well, sometimes you just get swept up in the story - start of Out of the Abyss story has you kidnapped by drow, the start of Wild Beyond the Witchlight has you heading into the Feywild to find something precious (like your sense of wonder and happiness) that was taken by the fae. Beyond that, a lot of classes come with motivations completely unassociated with the desire for money, fame or the like.
Clerics, Druids, Paladins and some Warlocks* tend to adventure because the gods, spirits and patrons have a Quest they're giving out. Rangers might apply for this one as well.
Wizards, Bards and other Warlocks* adventure because they want to unearth hidden lore, lost stories, and magics hidden in ruins or dungeons.
A common motivation for many Fighter, Monk and Barbarian characters is battle itself. Monks especially are driven by the type of wuxia mindset of seeking battle to hone oneself.
Rogues are especially associated with doing this for money to a larger extent - there's a reason the iconic rogues are assassins and thieves; killing and stealing is literally their job, and it makes little difference to most if that killing and stealing happens to goblins instead of rich folk in the city.
I have no freaking clue what would motivate a Sorcerer or Artificer beyond personal goals. But every other class as a built in motivation to go adventuring.
* in case its not clear, these are the patrons-give-magic versus forbidden-lore-gives-magic options of warlocks.
And regarding being better at crafting things, the only other class that is able to start with a single artisan tool proficiency is the Monk;
Nitpick - Druid starts with Herbalism Kit, at least in 2014, which is an artisan tool proficiency used to craft healing potions. Nothing else to say, just that druids, by default, are good at doing the whole witchy cauldron potion thing.
Hey, I mean, if it's time to move past tracking money, I'm down to try out some alternatives. I don't remember where I first saw the idea of a Wealth stat, but I like that quite a bit. It could be a skill, or y'know, basically function like a skill. Some characters get a better bonus than others according to their background, you can increase it over time, and you roll it when you're trying to pay for something, usually. If you find a bunch of treasure, then you probably get a temporary bonus to Wealth -- indeed, treasure could be as simple as, by spending 1 treasure, you can add 1 to a Wealth check, for example. If you get robbed, you auto-fail or have disadvantage on Wealth checks. I dunno.
Or we could take the approach where every character gets one self-defined attribute to assign a score. You can open up a lot of space that way, but it risks a lot of the mechanical predictability relied upon by published adventures. A player could decide their special thing is "hotness," and now they can roll hotness to solve problems. And you could do the same with wealth.
I'm sure there are other ways to execute on this. You needn't lose the concept of money in the fantasy world, just to be able to give up tracking every copper piece.
Also, published adventures require wide, fairly character-neutral hooks.
Massive piles of loot are at least as broad and character neutral as any of those things, and there are older modules that really don't have a plot hook beyond rumors of treasure.
Also, published adventures require wide, fairly character-neutral hooks.
Massive piles of loot are at least as broad and character neutral as any of those things, and there are older modules that really don't have a plot hook beyond rumors of treasure.
My point was simply that Wizards doesn’t publish adventures with personal hooks like revenge or fame because those kinds of hooks would dictate elements of players’ backstories.
Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities .-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-. An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more. Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
I mean... gold is traditionally used as an alternative EXP track for your equipment in RPGs (both TT and vidya). So if your gear isn't based on your Gold anymore, then... There's a limit to Numbers Go Up.
Half the player base doesn't use published adventures though.
True, but they're a decent indicator of what Wizards thinks people want.
No, I don't think it does.
I think it indicates what they think will sell to the broadest number of people. Which is a different practical metric from "what they think people want."
They may think that people will buy a book, but not that the book is necessarily what they want. There are some kinds of adventures they just aren't going to create because they aren't going to be good sellers -- it is pretty hard to sell an adventure based on something like Twelfth Night, even though there may be a lot of folks who would be interested in it.
Ravenloft is an example of something that sold well but wasn't what people 'seemed to want when it first came out. But iit was mostly bought because folks wanted a bad ass Vampire enemy -- and then discovered the whole dracula thing and the cool stuff within it.
(also, I am referring to original release).
But most of what they have published so far is a rewrite of something from older editions -- that isn't quite the same thing, it is more relying on nostalgia.
The original stuff is mostly pieces and bits, not so much a new and complex adventure.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities .-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-. An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more. Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
Hey, I mean, if it's time to move past tracking money, I'm down to try out some alternatives. I don't remember where I first saw the idea of a Wealth stat, but I like that quite a bit. It could be a skill, or y'know, basically function like a skill. Some characters get a better bonus than others according to their background, you can increase it over time, and you roll it when you're trying to pay for something, usually. If you find a bunch of treasure, then you probably get a temporary bonus to Wealth -- indeed, treasure could be as simple as, by spending 1 treasure, you can add 1 to a Wealth check, for example. If you get robbed, you auto-fail or have disadvantage on Wealth checks. I dunno.
Or we could take the approach where every character gets one self-defined attribute to assign a score. You can open up a lot of space that way, but it risks a lot of the mechanical predictability relied upon by published adventures. A player could decide their special thing is "hotness," and now they can roll hotness to solve problems. And you could do the same with wealth.
I'm sure there are other ways to execute on this. You needn't lose the concept of money in the fantasy world, just to be able to give up tracking every copper piece.
In d20 modern, the 3e version, it was basically a skill. It represented that modern folks have things like lines of credit and don’t always deal in cash. So you had a number, which was basically a skill. Items costs were represented similarly with a single number. If the item cost was below your skill number, you could just buy the item. If it cost more you could reduce your skill number permanently and then get it. Like how buying a house means you have a mortgage payment, so your day-to-day cash flow is reduced. As you leveled up, you could put points into it, 3e skill system style.
It actually worked pretty well. But I don’t know how well it works in a fantasy setting.
Really though, I’m not ready to get rid on money. Even not having much to spend the money on, it just feels good to have a big number next to your gp on your character sheet. Being rich is part of the game’s power fantasy. Starting off pinching coppers to buy a bowl of stew and sleeping in a barn, and then after a while, being able to walk in and say I want to rent out the entire inn for the night so my familiar has a comfy place to stay, and saying 100 gp, that’s pocket change! It’s a different kind of character upgrade.
The list was long so maybe I missed it, but another reason might be:
True Love
Except for when he distinctly said “to blave” which as we all know means to bluff.
No no it was more of a:
[in my best Rumpelstiltskin voice] “Twooo wuv”
*sigh*
As you wish...
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities .-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-. An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more. Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
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Well, sometimes you just get swept up in the story - start of Out of the Abyss story has you kidnapped by drow, the start of Wild Beyond the Witchlight has you heading into the Feywild to find something precious (like your sense of wonder and happiness) that was taken by the fae. Beyond that, a lot of classes come with motivations completely unassociated with the desire for money, fame or the like.
* in case its not clear, these are the patrons-give-magic versus forbidden-lore-gives-magic options of warlocks.
Nitpick - Druid starts with Herbalism Kit, at least in 2014, which is an artisan tool proficiency used to craft healing potions. Nothing else to say, just that druids, by default, are good at doing the whole witchy cauldron potion thing.
Hey, I mean, if it's time to move past tracking money, I'm down to try out some alternatives. I don't remember where I first saw the idea of a Wealth stat, but I like that quite a bit. It could be a skill, or y'know, basically function like a skill. Some characters get a better bonus than others according to their background, you can increase it over time, and you roll it when you're trying to pay for something, usually. If you find a bunch of treasure, then you probably get a temporary bonus to Wealth -- indeed, treasure could be as simple as, by spending 1 treasure, you can add 1 to a Wealth check, for example. If you get robbed, you auto-fail or have disadvantage on Wealth checks. I dunno.
Or we could take the approach where every character gets one self-defined attribute to assign a score. You can open up a lot of space that way, but it risks a lot of the mechanical predictability relied upon by published adventures. A player could decide their special thing is "hotness," and now they can roll hotness to solve problems. And you could do the same with wealth.
I'm sure there are other ways to execute on this. You needn't lose the concept of money in the fantasy world, just to be able to give up tracking every copper piece.
Massive piles of loot are at least as broad and character neutral as any of those things, and there are older modules that really don't have a plot hook beyond rumors of treasure.
My point was simply that Wizards doesn’t publish adventures with personal hooks like revenge or fame because those kinds of hooks would dictate elements of players’ backstories.
Excellent reason! I shall add it to my in house list.
(although, I mean, getting laid could maybe include it? Nah, nevermind, lol)
Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities
.-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-.
An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more.
Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
I mean... gold is traditionally used as an alternative EXP track for your equipment in RPGs (both TT and vidya). So if your gear isn't based on your Gold anymore, then... There's a limit to Numbers Go Up.
No, I don't think it does.
I think it indicates what they think will sell to the broadest number of people. Which is a different practical metric from "what they think people want."
They may think that people will buy a book, but not that the book is necessarily what they want. There are some kinds of adventures they just aren't going to create because they aren't going to be good sellers -- it is pretty hard to sell an adventure based on something like Twelfth Night, even though there may be a lot of folks who would be interested in it.
Ravenloft is an example of something that sold well but wasn't what people 'seemed to want when it first came out. But iit was mostly bought because folks wanted a bad ass Vampire enemy -- and then discovered the whole dracula thing and the cool stuff within it.
(also, I am referring to original release).
But most of what they have published so far is a rewrite of something from older editions -- that isn't quite the same thing, it is more relying on nostalgia.
The original stuff is mostly pieces and bits, not so much a new and complex adventure.
Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities
.-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-.
An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more.
Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
Except for when he distinctly said “to blave” which as we all know means to bluff.
In d20 modern, the 3e version, it was basically a skill. It represented that modern folks have things like lines of credit and don’t always deal in cash.
So you had a number, which was basically a skill. Items costs were represented similarly with a single number. If the item cost was below your skill number, you could just buy the item.
If it cost more you could reduce your skill number permanently and then get it. Like how buying a house means you have a mortgage payment, so your day-to-day cash flow is reduced.
As you leveled up, you could put points into it, 3e skill system style.
It actually worked pretty well. But I don’t know how well it works in a fantasy setting.
Really though, I’m not ready to get rid on money. Even not having much to spend the money on, it just feels good to have a big number next to your gp on your character sheet. Being rich is part of the game’s power fantasy. Starting off pinching coppers to buy a bowl of stew and sleeping in a barn, and then after a while, being able to walk in and say I want to rent out the entire inn for the night so my familiar has a comfy place to stay, and saying 100 gp, that’s pocket change! It’s a different kind of character upgrade.
No no it was more of a:
[in my best Rumpelstiltskin voice] “Twooo wuv”
*sigh*
As you wish...
Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities
.-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-.
An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more.
Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds