Part of the problem is that Enhance Ability exists, so any spell that provides advantage becomes redundant.
Getting advantage in an untrained skill isn't much of an advantage, especially when the DC gets high. It merely becomes 2 almost certain chances to fail.
Enhance Ability is what you cast to make something uncertain more certain, and the versatility it has makes it useful in many situations, but where Find Traps should be used isn't one of them. I'm thinking that Find Traps should grant proficiency in Investigate and Perception tests regarding Traps and hazards for a duration, perhaps with an upcast option to grant expertise. Make it Concentration based so that it can't stack with enhance ability without requiring 2 spellcasters. And it won't be able to replace a Rogue since reliable talent is a thing, but it will help those groups without one.
There are no winners. This entire process has been a fourteen-month disaster. If anyone has any damn hope left for the 2024 books, they're deluded. Anything worth getting excited about, anything worth calling a "winner", has been ruined, destroyed, discarded, and forgotten. All that's left is the bitter ashes of a burned dream.
You'te too submerged in doom and gloom. Things are far from as good as we hoped they could be, but at least rogue now has things to do, and berserker stopped being unplayable trash. I'd say that getting 20% of expectations is better than getting nothing at all.
That said, I really hope the next iteration of monk is at least a little better than dumpster fire)
Honestly, for a "half-edition" update like 3.5, 4e Essentials, etc... The changes really aren't bad. I like Weapon Mastery, for instance; even if its not going far enough for some people, its definitely an improvement over not having it. Barbarian, Rogue, Fighter have all had some really nice buffs at the basic level. Even if we're not getting rid of short rest classes, we are seeing ways to improve the monk and warlock's heavy dependence on it at least. Wizard has had a few tweaks, and Sorcerer has generally improved. With few exceptions, spells previewed feel better. I like the idea of 1st level feats, though I wish we had 8th, 12th, etc feats too.
Monk is a dumpster fire, and I dislike a huge chunk of the current Druid. But everything else seems to be moving in a positive direction.
Honestly, for a "half-edition" update like 3.5, 4e Essentials, etc... The changes really aren't bad. I like Weapon Mastery, for instance; even if its not going far enough for some people, its definitely an improvement over not having it. Barbarian, Rogue, Fighter have all had some really nice buffs at the basic level. Even if we're not getting rid of short rest classes, we are seeing ways to improve the monk and warlock's heavy dependence on it at least. Wizard has had a few tweaks, and Sorcerer has generally improved. With few exceptions, spells previewed feel better. I like the idea of 1st level feats, though I wish we had 8th, 12th, etc feats too.
Monk is a dumpster fire, and I dislike a huge chunk of the current Druid. But everything else seems to be moving in a positive direction.
It looks like they are going the opposite direction with short rest classes. Give more classes something they can recover on a short rest, so there will be less complaining when the full short rest characters insist on getting one.
Honestly, for a "half-edition" update like 3.5, 4e Essentials, etc... The changes really aren't bad. I like Weapon Mastery, for instance; even if its not going far enough for some people, its definitely an improvement over not having it. Barbarian, Rogue, Fighter have all had some really nice buffs at the basic level. Even if we're not getting rid of short rest classes, we are seeing ways to improve the monk and warlock's heavy dependence on it at least. Wizard has had a few tweaks, and Sorcerer has generally improved. With few exceptions, spells previewed feel better. I like the idea of 1st level feats, though I wish we had 8th, 12th, etc feats too.
Monk is a dumpster fire, and I dislike a huge chunk of the current Druid. But everything else seems to be moving in a positive direction.
It looks like they are going the opposite direction with short rest classes. Give more classes something they can recover on a short rest, so there will be less complaining when the full short rest characters insist on getting one.
That's what they said they are doing but in the actual UAs it is the opposite, most classes has less stuff recharging on a SR and more usages recharging on a LR.
Yeeep. Sure is a good thing the game's pushing even harder for the DM to have to awkwardly cram hour-long *********ion breaks into their game every night. Nothing's better for the pacing and immersion of a session of D&D than sitting around watching all your friends ******** for an hour. Yesiree, that sure is an awesome improvement.
With all due respect, even if the game isn't undergoing the radical changes many of us wanted... 2024 D&D is looking to be better than 2014 at least. Every class feels better than its previous incarnation (except Monk), and many of the subclasses do feel better (with a few hold outs being terrible- Brawler and Moon are often quoted).
I think the small improvements are at least worthwhile acknowledging and seeing how they improve the game.
Yeeep. Sure is a good thing the game's pushing even harder for the DM to have to awkwardly cram hour-long *********ion breaks into their game every night. Nothing's better for the pacing and immersion of a session of D&D than sitting around watching all your friends ******** for an hour. Yesiree, that sure is an awesome improvement.
We've been over this. "The way I play is the correct way to play and everybody else is just doing it wrong and playing anywhere besides my echo chamber would literally kill me" isn't your best argument.
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Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
Yeeep. Sure is a good thing the game's pushing even harder for the DM to have to awkwardly cram hour-long *********ion breaks into their game every night. Nothing's better for the pacing and immersion of a session of D&D than sitting around watching all your friends ******** for an hour. Yesiree, that sure is an awesome improvement.
But if I was to put a number to the next edition based on what I have been seeing, it certainly wouldn't be 6th, or even a 5.5. 5.25 tops, maybe only version 5.1.
I'd argue that Tasha's is 5.25 already, with early UA content being the 5.1.
Changes seen so far fully fit in with the weight and breadth of changes between 3.0 and 3.5.
There are no winners. This entire process has been a fourteen-month disaster. If anyone has any damn hope left for the 2024 books, they're deluded. Anything worth getting excited about, anything worth calling a "winner", has been ruined, destroyed, discarded, and forgotten. All that's left is the bitter ashes of a burned dream.
I'd only say this about Monk tbh, every other class plus all of their upgrades seem either decent at worst and amazing at best. Monk has been more than forgotten, they beat it while it was down
I forget what I said about the Druid, but I remember I really ripped into that one. The non-Moon subclasses were good, but I really didn't like the core class.
Can I ask what everyone thought was good about it? Hit me with the positive vibes, plz!
Best improvement to a base class has to be Rogue. Cunning Strikes (et al) completely changed the game for Rogues in a great way. Sorcerer would be runner-up. Innate Sorcery is good & thematic, & it scales well into Incarnate & Apotheosis.
Subclasses: I'm gonna go with Wild Magic Sorcerer. This was always a fun idea that was ruined in practice because it basically gave the DM control over all the fun stuff. Now its just fun. But this was close- they've done some good things with subclasses. Barbarian Berserker, Elemental Monk, Land Druid, & Assassin Rogue are all greatly improved over their 2014 counterparts. Also a special shout out to the Wizard Savant subclass abilities, which are way better than the old versions.
Classes that need the most work: Easily the Monk. That was the most lackluster effort I've seen of anything they've done. They seem to understand the basic problem- Monks don't have enough resources to power their abilities- but they utterly failed in addressing the problem. More Ki points, or even better, reducing/eliminating Ki costs for abilities is the answer here.
Runner up for me for needs most improvement is the Ranger. It's not bad, but it simply lacks a defining feature that actually works. Terrain features are thematic, but problematic. They can be rendered useless if you are in the wrong terrain, or if the DM declares that where you are doesn't qualify for that terrain (what terrain is a tomb? Underdark? Or is the tomb subject to the terrain you were in when you entered it? What terrain is a town? Etc.) Hunter's Mark continues to be a point of contention. They can't decide what it is actually going to be, and yet they seem to want to build the whole class around it. They need to find something thematic that improves and scales as you level in the class. I've seen many, many homebrews of Ranger. There are answers out there. Some are better than others. But what they gave us in the 2 UAs were not all that different from the 2014 class, which most people agree is "blah".
Warlock is close, but could also use more work. I'm in the Pact Magic camp (as opposed to the half caster) because I like how it makes Warlock unique. Otherwise the halfcaster version was fine. They just need a few more Pact slots. Not the "we'll give you 1 free sort of instant short rest" fix- like they also tried to use in the Monk.
Barbarian, Bard, Cleric, Druid, Fighter, Paladin, and Wizard are all fine. They've had fewer changes, but also did not need as many. Most of these classes have had "quality of life" and clarification changes, which is good. Druid Wildshape still seems to be a point of contention, but I think they understand that changing into a giant spider without the spider Climb or web abilities (for example) is basically the problem.
I don't think there are any "bad" subclasses. I do think there are subclasses that need more work: balancing, etc. Probably the Ranger Hunter feels the most in need of work. Some of the new ones, like Brawler, really need more work, too. But Hunter is not good. Gloomstalker & Fey Wanderer get spells, but Hunter & Beastmaster don't. I don't know what all the answers are for Hunter, but I know that knowing immunities/resistances is barely ok. There are so few Vulnerabilities that this is mostly useless. Maybe give Hunters a flat bonus to hit? Or increase the crit range? Or give them some kind of control abilities with nets or bolas or traps?
I've wandered into the labyrinth of theory-crafting... anyway, those are my takes. Some good. Some bad. Some are just okay.
Part of the problem is that Enhance Ability exists, so any spell that provides advantage becomes redundant.
Not at all; EA can only provide advantage to one ability. Friends and EA both existing means that EA can be aimed at something besides Charisma. Hell, even if the only challenge coming up is a conversation, buffing Wisdom for Insight/Perception or buffing Int for knowledge/Investigation can still be valuable.
I forget what I said about the Druid, but I remember I really ripped into that one. The non-Moon subclasses were good, but I really didn't like the core class.
Can I ask what everyone thought was good about it? Hit me with the positive vibes, plz!
Land and Sea look great. Stars wasn't changed. Moon needs work but only because WS as a whole needs work.
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Getting advantage in an untrained skill isn't much of an advantage, especially when the DC gets high. It merely becomes 2 almost certain chances to fail.
Enhance Ability is what you cast to make something uncertain more certain, and the versatility it has makes it useful in many situations, but where Find Traps should be used isn't one of them. I'm thinking that Find Traps should grant proficiency in Investigate and Perception tests regarding Traps and hazards for a duration, perhaps with an upcast option to grant expertise. Make it Concentration based so that it can't stack with enhance ability without requiring 2 spellcasters. And it won't be able to replace a Rogue since reliable talent is a thing, but it will help those groups without one.
You'te too submerged in doom and gloom. Things are far from as good as we hoped they could be, but at least rogue now has things to do, and berserker stopped being unplayable trash. I'd say that getting 20% of expectations is better than getting nothing at all.
That said, I really hope the next iteration of monk is at least a little better than dumpster fire)
Honestly, for a "half-edition" update like 3.5, 4e Essentials, etc... The changes really aren't bad. I like Weapon Mastery, for instance; even if its not going far enough for some people, its definitely an improvement over not having it. Barbarian, Rogue, Fighter have all had some really nice buffs at the basic level. Even if we're not getting rid of short rest classes, we are seeing ways to improve the monk and warlock's heavy dependence on it at least. Wizard has had a few tweaks, and Sorcerer has generally improved. With few exceptions, spells previewed feel better. I like the idea of 1st level feats, though I wish we had 8th, 12th, etc feats too.
Monk is a dumpster fire, and I dislike a huge chunk of the current Druid. But everything else seems to be moving in a positive direction.
It looks like they are going the opposite direction with short rest classes. Give more classes something they can recover on a short rest, so there will be less complaining when the full short rest characters insist on getting one.
That's what they said they are doing but in the actual UAs it is the opposite, most classes has less stuff recharging on a SR and more usages recharging on a LR.
With all due respect, even if the game isn't undergoing the radical changes many of us wanted... 2024 D&D is looking to be better than 2014 at least. Every class feels better than its previous incarnation (except Monk), and many of the subclasses do feel better (with a few hold outs being terrible- Brawler and Moon are often quoted).
I think the small improvements are at least worthwhile acknowledging and seeing how they improve the game.
We've been over this. "The way I play is the correct way to play and everybody else is just doing it wrong and playing anywhere besides my echo chamber would literally kill me" isn't your best argument.
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
Do you even enjoy playing D&D?
Let's be real here: the biggest winners are going to be Hasbro shareholders.
I'd argue that Tasha's is 5.25 already, with early UA content being the 5.1.
Changes seen so far fully fit in with the weight and breadth of changes between 3.0 and 3.5.
I'd only say this about Monk tbh, every other class plus all of their upgrades seem either decent at worst and amazing at best. Monk has been more than forgotten, they beat it while it was down
I forget what I said about the Druid, but I remember I really ripped into that one. The non-Moon subclasses were good, but I really didn't like the core class.
Can I ask what everyone thought was good about it? Hit me with the positive vibes, plz!
Best improvement to a base class has to be Rogue. Cunning Strikes (et al) completely changed the game for Rogues in a great way. Sorcerer would be runner-up. Innate Sorcery is good & thematic, & it scales well into Incarnate & Apotheosis.
Subclasses: I'm gonna go with Wild Magic Sorcerer. This was always a fun idea that was ruined in practice because it basically gave the DM control over all the fun stuff. Now its just fun. But this was close- they've done some good things with subclasses. Barbarian Berserker, Elemental Monk, Land Druid, & Assassin Rogue are all greatly improved over their 2014 counterparts. Also a special shout out to the Wizard Savant subclass abilities, which are way better than the old versions.
Classes that need the most work: Easily the Monk. That was the most lackluster effort I've seen of anything they've done. They seem to understand the basic problem- Monks don't have enough resources to power their abilities- but they utterly failed in addressing the problem. More Ki points, or even better, reducing/eliminating Ki costs for abilities is the answer here.
Runner up for me for needs most improvement is the Ranger. It's not bad, but it simply lacks a defining feature that actually works. Terrain features are thematic, but problematic. They can be rendered useless if you are in the wrong terrain, or if the DM declares that where you are doesn't qualify for that terrain (what terrain is a tomb? Underdark? Or is the tomb subject to the terrain you were in when you entered it? What terrain is a town? Etc.) Hunter's Mark continues to be a point of contention. They can't decide what it is actually going to be, and yet they seem to want to build the whole class around it. They need to find something thematic that improves and scales as you level in the class. I've seen many, many homebrews of Ranger. There are answers out there. Some are better than others. But what they gave us in the 2 UAs were not all that different from the 2014 class, which most people agree is "blah".
Warlock is close, but could also use more work. I'm in the Pact Magic camp (as opposed to the half caster) because I like how it makes Warlock unique. Otherwise the halfcaster version was fine. They just need a few more Pact slots. Not the "we'll give you 1 free sort of instant short rest" fix- like they also tried to use in the Monk.
Barbarian, Bard, Cleric, Druid, Fighter, Paladin, and Wizard are all fine. They've had fewer changes, but also did not need as many. Most of these classes have had "quality of life" and clarification changes, which is good. Druid Wildshape still seems to be a point of contention, but I think they understand that changing into a giant spider without the spider Climb or web abilities (for example) is basically the problem.
I don't think there are any "bad" subclasses. I do think there are subclasses that need more work: balancing, etc. Probably the Ranger Hunter feels the most in need of work. Some of the new ones, like Brawler, really need more work, too. But Hunter is not good. Gloomstalker & Fey Wanderer get spells, but Hunter & Beastmaster don't. I don't know what all the answers are for Hunter, but I know that knowing immunities/resistances is barely ok. There are so few Vulnerabilities that this is mostly useless. Maybe give Hunters a flat bonus to hit? Or increase the crit range? Or give them some kind of control abilities with nets or bolas or traps?
I've wandered into the labyrinth of theory-crafting... anyway, those are my takes. Some good. Some bad. Some are just okay.
Not at all; EA can only provide advantage to one ability. Friends and EA both existing means that EA can be aimed at something besides Charisma. Hell, even if the only challenge coming up is a conversation, buffing Wisdom for Insight/Perception or buffing Int for knowledge/Investigation can still be valuable.
Good, that means more D&D.
Land and Sea look great. Stars wasn't changed. Moon needs work but only because WS as a whole needs work.