UA8 announced that tasha's summons spells would be included in the 2024PHB. nice! so, what to do with the old conjure spells? devs introduced to the playtest some radical changes for a few spells...
Starry Wisp Evocation Cantrip (Bard, Druid) 1d8 damage is okay, but causing the target to glow for a turn without a DC check is kinda interesting. discount Faerie Fire? would love to see something about increasing the light intensity with additional applications!
Cure Wounds - (was) heal 1d8+mod (Evocation), now heal 2d8+mod (Abjuration). okay, i'll take it. less upcasting required, is all i'm seeing, really. i'm not feeling it being overpowered, but i'd be open to other people's thoughts on this.
Healing Word - (was) heal 1d4+mod (Evocation), now heal 2d4+mod (Abjuration). i've always felt like this is the "whoops, someone died" spell and i'm not sure the extra healing changes that. it's nice for sure! but, i don't think i'll be suggesting we skip short rest just because my healing word now hits harder.
Conjure Animals (previously) Spell Level 3 Conjuration (Druid, Ranger) basically Spirit Guardians in a 10x10 cuddle cube with 10ft reach (2d10) that you can move 30ft. Also, advantage on Str saves for caster. (edit: wait, does this cloud proc a half a fireball on every baddy it passes near when you move it? huh. scrubbing bubbles.)
Fount of Moonlight Spell Level 4 Evocation (Bard, Druid) Light cantrip + blind guys who hit on you. also resist radiant and melee attacks add 2d6 radiant damage. concentration really drags this one down, especially after just introducing all those new conjurations. (edit: immediately i forgot that this spell is on the Circle of Moon spell list for casting while in wildshape. plus i neglected to observe that level 6 Improved Circle Forms adds Wis mod to Con saves. so, yes, this might very well be placed correctly.)
Conjure Minor Elementals (previously) Spell Level 4 Conjuration (Druid, Wizard) 15ft around you is difficult terrain, plus you do 2d8 more on attacks vs bad guys in that zone. upcast to increase the range and damage... seems like this could get kinda big kinda quick. would it combine with Magic Missile spam, i wonder?
Conjure Elemental (previously) Spell Level 5 Conjuration (Druid, Wizard) summon a fancy gelatinous cube on fire (etc) that restrains one guy at a time. doesn't seem to require a reaction to trigger the "when a hostile creature moves within 5ft" attack so this could potentially be a strong doorway blocker for hordes! however, i don't see a provision for repositioning the thing. every other conjure can move, but not this one.
Conjure Woodland Beings (previously) Spell Level 5 Conjuration (Druid, Ranger) another Spirit Guardians, this one for 10ft and damage (5d8) is half on WIS save. also, bonus action disengage so you can prance around whomping people with the spirits of squirrels or whatever before retreating. too bad Expeditious Retreat's dash is a bonus action as well or you might have some fun. not entirely sure what else this would be for. seems like an expensive spell to lose concentration on.
Conjure Fey (previously) Spell Level 6 Conjuration (Druid) hit something for psychic damage and maybe frighten it. bonus action to teleport it to a different place and attack again. for comparison, Spiritual weapon upcast to 6th would be doing 3d8+mod compared to this fey thing's 3d12+mod ((edit: with no concentration in 2014 version but yes concentration in UA3))
Conjure Celestial (previously) Spell Level 7 Conjuration (Cleric) pillar of light that can heal someone once per casting (4d12+mod) or do damage like 1/10th a Fire Storm. i can see how they didn't want someone to just stand in the light and become functionally invincible with heals, but this seems lackluster. having said that, i don't have much experience with high level spells and i don't expect to get to playtest this. shrug. maybe it's better when the light is chasing people through the celestial villain's labyrinth?
Power Word Fortify Spell Level 7 Enchantment (Bard, Cleric) 120 Temp Hp spread amongst up to 6 targets. for comparison, new Mass Cure Wounds upcast to lvl7 is 7d8+mod each. sooo about equally efficient for 2 targets 3 targets? ...but when will you be casting either of these on just a few targets?
Conjure Fey (previously) Spell Level 6 Conjuration (Druid) hit something for psychic damage and maybe frighten it. bonus action to teleport it to a different place and attack again. for comparison, Spiritual weapon upcast to 6th would be doing 3d8+mod with no concentration compared to this fey thing's 3d12+mod.
I thought that Spiritual Weapon had become concentration in the UA, or am I remembering this incorrectly?
i just saw in the other thread that you had the same thought about summoning a gelatinous cube. that's not nothing. :D
anyway, i will feel the absence of the conjuration wizard subclass more than i'll feel the lack of 'conjure' options. i'm happy enough with tasha's summons.
edit: Agilemind, would your concerns be met somewhat by a druid power to burn a wildshape use in order to super-size a familiar? for a short time you could have a tunnel-digging giant badger or a restraining octopus. it's not the same as summoning a bunch of giant eagles to skip a puzzle and i'm alright with that. but, it would be something.
Conjure Fey (previously) Spell Level 6 Conjuration (Druid) hit something for psychic damage and maybe frighten it. bonus action to teleport it to a different place and attack again. for comparison, Spiritual weapon upcast to 6th would be doing 3d8+mod with no concentration compared to this fey thing's 3d12+mod.
I thought that Spiritual Weapon had become concentration in the UA, or am I remembering this incorrectly?
i had to dig back all the way to UA3 to find a spell description... and, you're right: "Concentration, up to 1 minute"
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Healing Word and Healing Touch should be swapped. Touch should be a Bonus Action with the downside of healing a bit less and requiring touch and Word should heal more and range but requires commitment in the form of an Action. As it it stands, why would you ever use touch in combat when you have Word?
Power Word Fortify Spell Level 7 Enchantment (Bard, Cleric) 120 Temp Hp spread amongst up to 6 targets. for comparison, new Mass Cure Wounds upcast to lvl7 is 7d8+mod each. sooo about equally efficient for 2 targets? ...but when will you be casting either of these on just two targets?
Assuming a casting modifier of +5 an average mass cure wounds would be 36.5 for up to six, whereas Power Word Fortify is 20 temporary hit points which doesn't seem too bad. It only skews more if you're a Life Domain cleric in which case, yeah, you're looking more or the mass cure.
It's probably worth keeping in mind that the benefit of Power Word Fortify is that temporary hit points are kind of like having higher maximum hit-points, i.e- you cast this when you know you're heading into a fight, whereas mass cure is for when that fight's not going so well, or is over.
I think it needs a minimum number of targets so you can't just slap 120 temporary hit-points on the Barbarian (who with the right resistances is effectively doubling them), and maybe some kind of rider while the temp. hp lasts; something notable but not too strong like advantage on Constitution saves?
For the conjure spells I think it's interesting that they're trying to repurpose them; I was just expecting them to be ditched in favour of the new Summon X format. Some of them seem okay, but I'm not all that excited by them either if I'm honest, maybe after I've had more time to think about them and/or tried some (but who has the time heading into December)?
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Power Word Fortify Spell Level 7 Enchantment (Bard, Cleric) 120 Temp Hp spread amongst up to 6 targets. for comparison, new Mass Cure Wounds upcast to lvl7 is 7d8+mod each. sooo about equally efficient for 2 targets? ...but when will you be casting either of these on just two targets?
Assuming a casting modifier of +5 an average mass cure wounds would be 36.5 for up to six, whereas Power Word Fortify is 20 temporary hit points which doesn't seem too bad. It only skews more if you're a Life Domain cleric in which case, yeah, you're looking more or the mass cure.
It's probably worth keeping in mind that the benefit of Power Word Fortify is that temporary hit points are kind of like having higher maximum hit-points, i.e- you cast this when you know you're heading into a fight, whereas mass cure is for when that fight's not going so well, or is over.
I think it needs a minimum number of targets so you can't just slap 120 temporary hit-points on the Barbarian (who with the right resistances is effectively doubling them), and maybe some kind of rider while the temp. hp lasts; something notable but not too strong like advantage on Constitution saves?
For the conjure spells I think it's interesting that they're trying to repurpose them; I was just expecting them to be ditched in favour of the new Summon X format. Some of them seem okay, but I'm not all that excited by them either if I'm honest, maybe after I've had more time to think about them?
this just seems too bland for a high level spell, even before you get to quantifying the actual output itself. i'd be glad of a rider to increase utility, but anything i seem to come up with would bait out a concentration restriction. maybe my expectations for level 7 spells are just too high.
...and maybe i should have left off the commentary. i was more interested in gathering everyone's reactions into one space rather than putting my reactions up for show.
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Fount of Moonlight seems built for Circle of the Moon Druid. With Circle of the Moon Druid now giving you con+wis concentration saving throws (and many beasts have high con). With resilient constitution you could be pushing a +10 Con save at level 8, you get this spell at level 7. Alternatively warcaster, with enough CON and WIS is going to be pretty similar. So now, you can force anything that hits you to make a con save or be blinded and you get to add 2d6 to every melee attack.
I can maybe see the usage of it for a bard too, for valor or swords, this is a lot of potential damage with extra attack. However this spell is going to be near impossible to use from stealth due to how it shreds light.
Power Word Fortify just seems weird and overlaps with the Aid of UA3 too much. If you choose six targets then you give each 20 temp HP, Aid from UA3, when cast with a 7th level slot would give 30 temp HP to 6 allies. So the only usage comes from giving temporary hp to less targets. Targetting 1 target grants it 120 temp HP, targeting 2 gives 60 temp HP, 3 gives 40 temp HP, 4 gives 30 temp HP and 5 gives 25 temp HP. This means casting this spell is very limited, since targetting 4 or more targets, you might as well be using Aid. I am hoping this design is based on Aid reverting back to actually increasing Maximum HP instead.
i just saw in the other thread that you had the same thought about summoning a gelatinous cube. that's not nothing. :D
anyway, i will feel the absence of the conjuration wizard subclass more than i'll feel the lack of 'conjure' options. i'm happy enough with tasha's summons.
edit: Agilemind, would your concerns be met somewhat by a druid power to burn a wildshape use in order to super-size a familiar? for a short time you could have a tunnel-digging giant badger or a restraining octopus. it's not the same as summoning a bunch of giant eagles to skip a puzzle and i'm alright with that. but, it would be something.
That would be an interesting alternative. And Wildshape can do a lot of the utility that Conjure Animals can do outside of combat just with extra steps. I'm just a bit disappointed that druid and cleric are going to end up so similar to each other. I'm personally not that much of a fan of casters as sustained damage blasters, I feel that that is where martials should shine, whereas casters should be more focused on utility and support. I'd rather see other casters have their damage spells nerfed down to the level of druids than have druids DPR buffed up to the level of other casters.
On the conjuration ones balanced but they are pretty boring, I would feel no joy in using them, its says conjure etc but its basically a reflavored spells that already exist, like conjure elemental is basically a variation on evards, minor elemental is like spirit shroud with a different name and much better scaling. In a game where the tashas summon spells still exist some are pretty freaking bad imo, but I think the tashas summon spells are too good and need a nerf.
And while I do prefer each class having its own list, I also think lists need to be expanded quite a bit. My ideal would have been to have a solid arcane/divine/primal generic list with each class getting a decent pile of exclusives on top of it instead of like 2-3 unique spells per class and massive base lists. Like 1/2 the arcane list with the other 1/2 split between arcane casters, I guess wizard getting the most of it but not as insanely lopsided as it is now. These spells kind of brought that into focus as for example I did not see a single, warlock sorcerer, paladin spell and only two ranger spell. I'm going to go out on a limb and say warlocks kind of feel like a caster who could summon things. Paladins getting mass cure wounds seems on point, rangers being primal like getting minor elemental and conjure elemental seems to fit as well. Did they have them in 5e(some summons for warlock with tashas)no but if something was a thematic miss on 5e, maybe correct it now.
The reality is... people who play conjurers want to be petmasters, and giving them damaging zones isn't what they want. Just make all the conjuring spells summon a single creature, and add Conjure Swarm (which summons... a single creature with the Swarm type) to cover what used to be done by summoning 8 mooks.
I have a class that is essentially all about bringing in spirits of the world to the aid of the caster, and they are perfect for it!
As a concept, summoning generic spirits or whatever to produce an effect isn't bad, but as a substitution for being able to call up specific creatures, it's just god-awful.
Multi-summoning tends to just kill session progress yes, but that just means we cut out those options and leave the higher level single summon ones be. I've seen people claim the list is too daunting, but it's really not. Demons in their appropriate range are less than a whole 20 entry page when I searched them here, devils slightly higher, and both with a lot of duplicate entries. Fey and Elementals are about the same size, and we all know how few Celestial options there are. In contrast, Beasts in the CR 1-3 range clock in at over 40 entries here, and they're clearly comfortable having Moon Druids sift through those to pick their known forms. It's literally maybe an hour's homework for a player to sort through the entries and earmark a handful of summon options. This is the Information Age, for crying out loud. You can bookmark or print out the pages for quick reference; heck, you can link the block to your character sheet on D&DB. Yes, it might be more bookkeeping than some people care to deal with, but it is not nearly such an onerous and impossible task that it's unrealistic to expect players or DMs to put a bit of legwork in.
I have a class that is essentially all about bringing in spirits of the world to the aid of the caster, and they are perfect for it!
As a concept, summoning generic spirits or whatever to produce an effect isn't bad, but as a substitution for being able to call up specific creatures, it's just god-awful.
Multi-summoning tends to just kill session progress yes, but that just means we cut out those options and leave the higher level single summon ones be. I've seen people claim the list is too daunting, but it's really not. Demons in their appropriate range are less than a whole 20 entry page when I searched them here, devils slightly higher, and both with a lot of duplicate entries. Fey and Elementals are about the same size, and we all know how few Celestial options there are. In contrast, Beasts in the CR 1-3 range clock in at over 40 entries here, and they're clearly comfortable having Moon Druids sift through those to pick their known forms. It's literally maybe an hour's homework for a player to sort through the entries and earmark a handful of summon options. This is the Information Age, for crying out loud. You can bookmark or print out the pages for quick reference; heck, you can link the block to your character sheet on D&DB. Yes, it might be more bookkeeping than some people care to deal with, but it is not nearly such an onerous and impossible task that it's unrealistic to expect players or DMs to put a bit of legwork in.
agreed on it not being all that hard, but I will channel my inner lead D&D architect for 5e and utter “pain points” and “player feedback” and…
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UA8 announced that tasha's summons spells would be included in the 2024PHB. nice! so, what to do with the old conjure spells? devs introduced to the playtest some radical changes for a few spells...
Cure Wounds - (was) heal 1d8+mod (Evocation), now heal 2d8+mod (Abjuration). okay, i'll take it. less upcasting required, is all i'm seeing, really. i'm not feeling it being overpowered, but i'd be open to other people's thoughts on this.
Healing Word - (was) heal 1d4+mod (Evocation), now heal 2d4+mod (Abjuration). i've always felt like this is the "whoops, someone died" spell and i'm not sure the extra healing changes that. it's nice for sure! but, i don't think i'll be suggesting we skip short rest just because my healing word now hits harder.
It's not just going from one die to two, it's going to two per spell level, so 2d8 at level 1 spell, 4d8 at level 2 spell, 6d8 at level 3, etc.
I really like it. It will scale better and might actually be worthwhile to heal someone before they drop instead of whack-a-mole.
I have a class that is essentially all about bringing in spirits of the world to the aid of the caster, and they are perfect for it!
As a concept, summoning generic spirits or whatever to produce an effect isn't bad, but as a substitution for being able to call up specific creatures, it's just god-awful.
Multi-summoning tends to just kill session progress yes, but that just means we cut out those options and leave the higher level single summon ones be. I've seen people claim the list is too daunting, but it's really not. Demons in their appropriate range are less than a whole 20 entry page when I searched them here, devils slightly higher, and both with a lot of duplicate entries. Fey and Elementals are about the same size, and we all know how few Celestial options there are. In contrast, Beasts in the CR 1-3 range clock in at over 40 entries here, and they're clearly comfortable having Moon Druids sift through those to pick their known forms. It's literally maybe an hour's homework for a player to sort through the entries and earmark a handful of summon options. This is the Information Age, for crying out loud. You can bookmark or print out the pages for quick reference; heck, you can link the block to your character sheet on D&DB. Yes, it might be more bookkeeping than some people care to deal with, but it is not nearly such an onerous and impossible task that it's unrealistic to expect players or DMs to put a bit of legwork in.
agreed on it not being all that hard, but I will channel my inner lead D&D architect for 5e and utter “pain points” and “player feedback” and…
Respectfully, reciting buzzwords without context doesn't give me much to respond to. And, as I said, clearly flipping through blocks isn't such a deal-breaking pain-point since they stuck with it for Wildshape and as I just highlighted, a 9th level Druid is looking at about twice as a many entries as the maximum possible for a Conjure spell.
Using critters from the monster manual is problematic for balance reasons, particularly once you get out of the realm of animals, either because the critter has the spellcasting trait, or because it has some weird capability that they never considered being usable by PCs. You could solve most of that by disallowing abilities that require recharge, but not all.
I can understand the need for streamlining, but these summoning spells take it too far. If I want to summon, I want my cannon fodder on the battlefield, not an abstract damage zone of "spectral" whatever. Summoning a single creature that makes a turn with you was enough.
Using critters from the monster manual is problematic for balance reasons, particularly once you get out of the realm of animals, either because the critter has the spellcasting trait, or because it has some weird capability that they never considered being usable by PCs. You could solve most of that by disallowing abilities that require recharge, but not all.
Not really, because all of those spells had the caveat that the DM decides what type of creature is summoned. So the DM can either give a list of what can be summoned, or a list of what cannot be summoned. Or the DM can allow whatever, and reward the creative player who finds some weird broken thing to summon with one wacky skewed combat then say tell the player afterwards that they can't summon those again b/c it was game breaking. Only toxic players want to break the game, because a broken game is unfun for everyone else and will get them kicked out of the group. However all of those spells should have a list of "recommended" creatures attached to them so the busy DM can just say "you must pick from the recommended list" if they don't want to deal with the hassle of checking each monster the player comes up with.
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UA8 announced that tasha's summons spells would be included in the 2024PHB. nice! so, what to do with the old conjure spells? devs introduced to the playtest some radical changes for a few spells...
Starry Wisp
Evocation Cantrip (Bard, Druid)
1d8 damage is okay, but causing the target to glow for a turn without a DC check is kinda interesting. discount Faerie Fire? would love to see something about increasing the light intensity with additional applications!
Cure Wounds - (was) heal 1d8+mod (Evocation), now heal 2d8+mod (Abjuration). okay, i'll take it. less upcasting required, is all i'm seeing, really. i'm not feeling it being overpowered, but i'd be open to other people's thoughts on this.
Healing Word - (was) heal 1d4+mod (Evocation), now heal 2d4+mod (Abjuration). i've always felt like this is the "whoops, someone died" spell and i'm not sure the extra healing changes that. it's nice for sure! but, i don't think i'll be suggesting we skip short rest just because my healing word now hits harder.
Conjure Animals (previously)
Spell Level 3 Conjuration (Druid, Ranger)
basically Spirit Guardians in a 10x10 cuddle cube with 10ft reach (2d10) that you can move 30ft. Also, advantage on Str saves for caster. (edit: wait, does this cloud proc a half a fireball on every baddy it passes near when you move it? huh. scrubbing bubbles.)
Fount of Moonlight
Spell Level 4 Evocation (Bard, Druid)
Light cantrip + blind guys who hit on you. also resist radiant and melee attacks add 2d6 radiant damage.
concentration really drags this one down, especially after just introducing all those new conjurations.(edit: immediately i forgot that this spell is on the Circle of Moon spell list for casting while in wildshape. plus i neglected to observe that level 6 Improved Circle Forms adds Wis mod to Con saves. so, yes, this might very well be placed correctly.)Conjure Minor Elementals (previously)
Spell Level 4 Conjuration (Druid, Wizard)
15ft around you is difficult terrain, plus you do 2d8 more on attacks vs bad guys in that zone. upcast to increase the range and damage... seems like this could get kinda big kinda quick. would it combine with Magic Missile spam, i wonder?
Conjure Elemental (previously)
Spell Level 5 Conjuration (Druid, Wizard)
summon a fancy gelatinous cube on fire (etc) that restrains one guy at a time. doesn't seem to require a reaction to trigger the "when a hostile creature moves within 5ft" attack so this could potentially be a strong doorway blocker for hordes! however, i don't see a provision for repositioning the thing. every other conjure can move, but not this one.
Conjure Woodland Beings (previously)
Spell Level 5 Conjuration (Druid, Ranger)
another Spirit Guardians, this one for 10ft and damage (5d8) is half on WIS save. also, bonus action disengage so you can prance around whomping people with the spirits of squirrels or whatever before retreating. too bad Expeditious Retreat's dash is a bonus action as well or you might have some fun. not entirely sure what else this would be for. seems like an expensive spell to lose concentration on.
Conjure Fey (previously)
Spell Level 6 Conjuration (Druid)
hit something for psychic damage and maybe frighten it. bonus action to teleport it to a different place and attack again. for comparison, Spiritual weapon upcast to 6th would be doing 3d8+mod compared to this fey thing's 3d12+mod ((edit: with no concentration in 2014 version but yes concentration in UA3))
Conjure Celestial (previously)
Spell Level 7 Conjuration (Cleric)
pillar of light that can heal someone once per casting (4d12+mod) or do damage like 1/10th a Fire Storm. i can see how they didn't want someone to just stand in the light and become functionally invincible with heals, but this seems lackluster. having said that, i don't have much experience with high level spells and i don't expect to get to playtest this. shrug. maybe it's better when the light is chasing people through the celestial villain's labyrinth?
Power Word Fortify
Spell Level 7 Enchantment (Bard, Cleric)
120 Temp Hp spread amongst up to 6 targets. for comparison, new Mass Cure Wounds upcast to lvl7 is 7d8+mod each. sooo about equally efficient for
2 targets3 targets? ...but when will you be casting either of these on just a few targets?unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
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Most of them are pretty uninteresting.
I thought that Spiritual Weapon had become concentration in the UA, or am I remembering this incorrectly?
i just saw in the other thread that you had the same thought about summoning a gelatinous cube. that's not nothing. :D
anyway, i will feel the absence of the conjuration wizard subclass more than i'll feel the lack of 'conjure' options. i'm happy enough with tasha's summons.
edit: Agilemind, would your concerns be met somewhat by a druid power to burn a wildshape use in order to super-size a familiar? for a short time you could have a tunnel-digging giant badger or a restraining octopus. it's not the same as summoning a bunch of giant eagles to skip a puzzle and i'm alright with that. but, it would be something.
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i had to dig back all the way to UA3 to find a spell description... and, you're right: "Concentration, up to 1 minute"
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Healing Word and Healing Touch should be swapped. Touch should be a Bonus Action with the downside of healing a bit less and requiring touch and Word should heal more and range but requires commitment in the form of an Action. As it it stands, why would you ever use touch in combat when you have Word?
Assuming a casting modifier of +5 an average mass cure wounds would be 36.5 for up to six, whereas Power Word Fortify is 20 temporary hit points which doesn't seem too bad. It only skews more if you're a Life Domain cleric in which case, yeah, you're looking more or the mass cure.
It's probably worth keeping in mind that the benefit of Power Word Fortify is that temporary hit points are kind of like having higher maximum hit-points, i.e- you cast this when you know you're heading into a fight, whereas mass cure is for when that fight's not going so well, or is over.
I think it needs a minimum number of targets so you can't just slap 120 temporary hit-points on the Barbarian (who with the right resistances is effectively doubling them), and maybe some kind of rider while the temp. hp lasts; something notable but not too strong like advantage on Constitution saves?
For the conjure spells I think it's interesting that they're trying to repurpose them; I was just expecting them to be ditched in favour of the new Summon X format. Some of them seem okay, but I'm not all that excited by them either if I'm honest, maybe after I've had more time to think about them and/or tried some (but who has the time heading into December)?
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this just seems too bland for a high level spell, even before you get to quantifying the actual output itself. i'd be glad of a rider to increase utility, but anything i seem to come up with would bait out a concentration restriction. maybe my expectations for level 7 spells are just too high.
...and maybe i should have left off the commentary. i was more interested in gathering everyone's reactions into one space rather than putting my reactions up for show.
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Fount of Moonlight seems built for Circle of the Moon Druid. With Circle of the Moon Druid now giving you con+wis concentration saving throws (and many beasts have high con). With resilient constitution you could be pushing a +10 Con save at level 8, you get this spell at level 7. Alternatively warcaster, with enough CON and WIS is going to be pretty similar. So now, you can force anything that hits you to make a con save or be blinded and you get to add 2d6 to every melee attack.
I can maybe see the usage of it for a bard too, for valor or swords, this is a lot of potential damage with extra attack. However this spell is going to be near impossible to use from stealth due to how it shreds light.
Power Word Fortify just seems weird and overlaps with the Aid of UA3 too much. If you choose six targets then you give each 20 temp HP, Aid from UA3, when cast with a 7th level slot would give 30 temp HP to 6 allies. So the only usage comes from giving temporary hp to less targets. Targetting 1 target grants it 120 temp HP, targeting 2 gives 60 temp HP, 3 gives 40 temp HP, 4 gives 30 temp HP and 5 gives 25 temp HP. This means casting this spell is very limited, since targetting 4 or more targets, you might as well be using Aid. I am hoping this design is based on Aid reverting back to actually increasing Maximum HP instead.
That would be an interesting alternative. And Wildshape can do a lot of the utility that Conjure Animals can do outside of combat just with extra steps. I'm just a bit disappointed that druid and cleric are going to end up so similar to each other. I'm personally not that much of a fan of casters as sustained damage blasters, I feel that that is where martials should shine, whereas casters should be more focused on utility and support. I'd rather see other casters have their damage spells nerfed down to the level of druids than have druids DPR buffed up to the level of other casters.
On the conjuration ones balanced but they are pretty boring, I would feel no joy in using them, its says conjure etc but its basically a reflavored spells that already exist, like conjure elemental is basically a variation on evards, minor elemental is like spirit shroud with a different name and much better scaling. In a game where the tashas summon spells still exist some are pretty freaking bad imo, but I think the tashas summon spells are too good and need a nerf.
And while I do prefer each class having its own list, I also think lists need to be expanded quite a bit. My ideal would have been to have a solid arcane/divine/primal generic list with each class getting a decent pile of exclusives on top of it instead of like 2-3 unique spells per class and massive base lists. Like 1/2 the arcane list with the other 1/2 split between arcane casters, I guess wizard getting the most of it but not as insanely lopsided as it is now. These spells kind of brought that into focus as for example I did not see a single, warlock sorcerer, paladin spell and only two ranger spell. I'm going to go out on a limb and say warlocks kind of feel like a caster who could summon things. Paladins getting mass cure wounds seems on point, rangers being primal like getting minor elemental and conjure elemental seems to fit as well. Did they have them in 5e(some summons for warlock with tashas)no but if something was a thematic miss on 5e, maybe correct it now.
The reality is... people who play conjurers want to be petmasters, and giving them damaging zones isn't what they want. Just make all the conjuring spells summon a single creature, and add Conjure Swarm (which summons... a single creature with the Swarm type) to cover what used to be done by summoning 8 mooks.
I love the new conjure ones.
I have a class that is essentially all about bringing in spirits of the world to the aid of the caster, and they are perfect for it!
Only a DM since 1980 (3000 Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman
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As a concept, summoning generic spirits or whatever to produce an effect isn't bad, but as a substitution for being able to call up specific creatures, it's just god-awful.
Multi-summoning tends to just kill session progress yes, but that just means we cut out those options and leave the higher level single summon ones be. I've seen people claim the list is too daunting, but it's really not. Demons in their appropriate range are less than a whole 20 entry page when I searched them here, devils slightly higher, and both with a lot of duplicate entries. Fey and Elementals are about the same size, and we all know how few Celestial options there are. In contrast, Beasts in the CR 1-3 range clock in at over 40 entries here, and they're clearly comfortable having Moon Druids sift through those to pick their known forms. It's literally maybe an hour's homework for a player to sort through the entries and earmark a handful of summon options. This is the Information Age, for crying out loud. You can bookmark or print out the pages for quick reference; heck, you can link the block to your character sheet on D&DB. Yes, it might be more bookkeeping than some people care to deal with, but it is not nearly such an onerous and impossible task that it's unrealistic to expect players or DMs to put a bit of legwork in.
agreed on it not being all that hard, but I will channel my inner lead D&D architect for 5e and utter “pain points” and “player feedback” and…
Only a DM since 1980 (3000 Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman
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Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
It's not just going from one die to two, it's going to two per spell level, so 2d8 at level 1 spell, 4d8 at level 2 spell, 6d8 at level 3, etc.
I really like it. It will scale better and might actually be worthwhile to heal someone before they drop instead of whack-a-mole.
Respectfully, reciting buzzwords without context doesn't give me much to respond to. And, as I said, clearly flipping through blocks isn't such a deal-breaking pain-point since they stuck with it for Wildshape and as I just highlighted, a 9th level Druid is looking at about twice as a many entries as the maximum possible for a Conjure spell.
Using critters from the monster manual is problematic for balance reasons, particularly once you get out of the realm of animals, either because the critter has the spellcasting trait, or because it has some weird capability that they never considered being usable by PCs. You could solve most of that by disallowing abilities that require recharge, but not all.
I can understand the need for streamlining, but these summoning spells take it too far. If I want to summon, I want my cannon fodder on the battlefield, not an abstract damage zone of "spectral" whatever. Summoning a single creature that makes a turn with you was enough.
Not really, because all of those spells had the caveat that the DM decides what type of creature is summoned. So the DM can either give a list of what can be summoned, or a list of what cannot be summoned. Or the DM can allow whatever, and reward the creative player who finds some weird broken thing to summon with one wacky skewed combat then say tell the player afterwards that they can't summon those again b/c it was game breaking. Only toxic players want to break the game, because a broken game is unfun for everyone else and will get them kicked out of the group. However all of those spells should have a list of "recommended" creatures attached to them so the busy DM can just say "you must pick from the recommended list" if they don't want to deal with the hassle of checking each monster the player comes up with.