The fact that not taking eldritch blast/agnozing blast is considered a mistake speaks more to the flawed design of the features as opposed to a flaw in the class. Warlocks whole thing now is that it's supposed to be highly customizable.
Honestly they should just turn EB into a Invocation and change Agonizing Blast to function more effectively with other cantrips. That way it gives greater customization without causing issues.
Well if it was treated as a class feature rather than a cantrip, there would be no problem.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
If EB becomes a flat class feature, then there's no reason to take basically any offensive cantrip. Personally I'd at least like a reasonable ability to do so.
What if, as so many have suggested, Eldritch Blast became a class feature at level 1. All this feature would do is allowing the Warlock to pick their choice of one attack cantrip, and from that point on this would be their "Eldritch Blast" (Or Strike, I guess, in case of weapon cantrips), gaining it in addition to their regular allotment of cantrips. The feature would also allow the Warlock to add their proficiency bonus to the damage of their EB, once per casting, as well as modify it further using the various Invocations that key off of EB.
In this scenario, to avoid confusion the existing EB cantrip could be renamed.... I dunno, "Force Beam" or something similarly generic in the line of Fire Bolt, Ray of Frost, etc. The Agonising Blast invocation could be dropped, or possibly rebranded to let the Warlock pick a second cantrip to call an Eldritch Blast?
Using the above, any warlock could have any flavour of EB that they'd like to match their concept, and none would benefit disproportionally from damage modifiers. All it comes down to is what damage type you want, and what its shape/range would be.
Isn't there a rule that says you can't add the same modifier to something multiple times? So you can't add Cha multiple times to the same Eldritch Blast beam?
Or am I insane/using a house rule I never knew was a house rule?
Isn't there a rule that says you can't add the same modifier to something multiple times? So you can't add Cha multiple times to the same Eldritch Blast beam?
Or am I insane/using a house rule I never knew was a house rule?
Feature’s with the same name don’t stack. Different named features that do the same thing can stack.
If anything, Agonizing Blast should be a Level 5 invocation, to lessen dipping exploitation.
really, agonizing blast should not even be a thing. All cantrips should add the spell casting mod to the damage rolls.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Scales with character level instead of class level. (I consider this a problem, but others may disagree.)
Warlocks have limited spell slots, which makes cantrips more desirable.
The downsides are that EB+AB makes for repetitive warlocks (in building and playing) along with metagame dips (Paladin, Bard, Sorcerer). I've seen a variety of suggestions that could fix the downsides while keeping the upsides. Any of these fixes or a combination could work.
The beam splitting could be applied to all attack roll cantrips at Warlock level 5, 11, and 17 in exchange for using only a single damage dice. Thus allowing a variety of cantrips while disabling cheesy multiclassing.
AB could scale with Warlock levels. In other words, AB could add CHA once for Warlock levels 1-4, add CHA twice for levels 5-10, etc.
EB could scale with Warlock level, as in UA5. This is the most likely, as it was already play tested once.
I actually really like the idea of Warlocks innately casting all attack-based cantrips with multiple attacks, even if it has restrictions like... the additional effects of the cantrip only apply to the first attack roll (so you can't just use the feature to get 2+ shots at Shocking Grasp to remove their reaction). I think my favorite part of this concept is that it's kept tied to Warlock level, so even if another class gets access to Eldritch Blast through a feat or something it's still not as good as the Warlock's version.
I get that warlocks need a very reliable at-will damage source, given their very limited number of spell slots. That's not a problem to me. I don't like Eldritch Blast because it's so flavorless, especially as a key feature for a class that is generally so flavorful and which supports so many different builds.
I'd rather they just change Eldritch Blast to let warlocks select the damage type and then just say it bypasses resistance and immunity. That's the major practical impact of the force damage type, anyway - it's the damage type you give when balance wise, a particular damage source should always work. Now fiends can have fire, celestials - radiant, GOO's psychic, Archfey psychic or cold or a stream of poisonous toads or whatever. The warlock still has a reliable damage source that actually works with whatever whacky patron they want to think up.
I get there is some additional work to be done in preventing multiclass abuse with that, but the Warlock class needs a revamp to minimize level dipping anyway.
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The fact that not taking eldritch blast/agnozing blast is considered a mistake speaks more to the flawed design of the features as opposed to a flaw in the class. Warlocks whole thing now is that it's supposed to be highly customizable.
Honestly they should just turn EB into a Invocation and change Agonizing Blast to function more effectively with other cantrips. That way it gives greater customization without causing issues.
Well if it was treated as a class feature rather than a cantrip, there would be no problem.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
If EB becomes a flat class feature, then there's no reason to take basically any offensive cantrip. Personally I'd at least like a reasonable ability to do so.
Potato tomato.
What if, as so many have suggested, Eldritch Blast became a class feature at level 1. All this feature would do is allowing the Warlock to pick their choice of one attack cantrip, and from that point on this would be their "Eldritch Blast" (Or Strike, I guess, in case of weapon cantrips), gaining it in addition to their regular allotment of cantrips. The feature would also allow the Warlock to add their proficiency bonus to the damage of their EB, once per casting, as well as modify it further using the various Invocations that key off of EB.
In this scenario, to avoid confusion the existing EB cantrip could be renamed.... I dunno, "Force Beam" or something similarly generic in the line of Fire Bolt, Ray of Frost, etc. The Agonising Blast invocation could be dropped, or possibly rebranded to let the Warlock pick a second cantrip to call an Eldritch Blast?
Using the above, any warlock could have any flavour of EB that they'd like to match their concept, and none would benefit disproportionally from damage modifiers. All it comes down to is what damage type you want, and what its shape/range would be.
Would that be a good middle-ground?
Isn't there a rule that says you can't add the same modifier to something multiple times? So you can't add Cha multiple times to the same Eldritch Blast beam?
Or am I insane/using a house rule I never knew was a house rule?
Feature’s with the same name don’t stack. Different named features that do the same thing can stack.
Just make the UA version of Agonizing Blast a Warlock core class feature that augments any Cantrip the Warlock casts.
If anything, Agonizing Blast should be a Level 5 invocation, to lessen dipping exploitation.
If you're a bladelock, eldritch blast and agonizing blast aren't your bread and butter, which is likely why they're still optional.
really, agonizing blast should not even be a thing. All cantrips should add the spell casting mod to the damage rolls.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Let's review why EB + AB is so good in 5E.
The downsides are that EB+AB makes for repetitive warlocks (in building and playing) along with metagame dips (Paladin, Bard, Sorcerer). I've seen a variety of suggestions that could fix the downsides while keeping the upsides. Any of these fixes or a combination could work.
I actually really like the idea of Warlocks innately casting all attack-based cantrips with multiple attacks, even if it has restrictions like... the additional effects of the cantrip only apply to the first attack roll (so you can't just use the feature to get 2+ shots at Shocking Grasp to remove their reaction). I think my favorite part of this concept is that it's kept tied to Warlock level, so even if another class gets access to Eldritch Blast through a feat or something it's still not as good as the Warlock's version.
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I get that warlocks need a very reliable at-will damage source, given their very limited number of spell slots. That's not a problem to me. I don't like Eldritch Blast because it's so flavorless, especially as a key feature for a class that is generally so flavorful and which supports so many different builds.
I'd rather they just change Eldritch Blast to let warlocks select the damage type and then just say it bypasses resistance and immunity. That's the major practical impact of the force damage type, anyway - it's the damage type you give when balance wise, a particular damage source should always work. Now fiends can have fire, celestials - radiant, GOO's psychic, Archfey psychic or cold or a stream of poisonous toads or whatever. The warlock still has a reliable damage source that actually works with whatever whacky patron they want to think up.
I get there is some additional work to be done in preventing multiclass abuse with that, but the Warlock class needs a revamp to minimize level dipping anyway.