Player takes the feat Great Weapon Master and thinks he gets the new Unearth Arcana Weapon Mastery skills like Graze and Cleave. I don't think that's how that works since I mashed them into a pre-established game to just make those Weapon Mastery skills work like if you learn vex then vex on all vex weapons. Saying he has all those skills on top of Great Weapon Master seems crazy to me.
As presently written Great Weapon Master does not give you access to the weapon mastery system. Though the names are similar, Great Weapon Master does two things, neither of which is “provide access to weapon mastery system.”
Can anyone actually know the answer to this? It isn't even released yet. Any answer is just a guess
Yes, you can know the answer—Great Weapon Master decidedly has been released and it makes no mention of the mastery system. Therefore taking the feat does not give you anything beyond the two things it does. No guessing required—the present rules are very clear it does currently not convey access to weapon mastery.
Now, could that change? Sure—but the fact the answer may change in the future does not change the fact that there is an answer presently, and that answer is “no, it does not.”
Yes, you can know the answer—Great Weapon Master decidedly has been released and it makes no mention of the mastery system. Therefore taking the feat does not give you anything beyond the two things it does. No guessing required—the present rules are very clear it does currently not convey access to weapon mastery.
Ok yeah if they're asking about current rules then obviously this is true that future releases don't exist yet and there is no way to obtain them. I assumed he was asking about how the future release will work since he said he is attempting to use them in an existing campaign, but how exactly they're going to work is still anyone's guess.
FWIW my guess would be that Great Weapon Master is already incredibly powerful as it is, and they wouldn't buff it further by also adding weapon mastery on top of it - but that's just me guessing.
In the 2nd UA, the GWM feat requires proficiency with Martial Weapons to take it. The classes with Martial Weapon proficiency also get Weapon Mastery, so the likelihood is that you would already have Weapon Mastery if you can take the GWM feat.
I am not asking about future rules. I'm just dealing with a players (not just him) that are making a fun thing that I added as learnable feats broken. Then tell me I don't understand the rules that aren't actual rules yet. It's just frustrating how I put some much work into this game to have fun with my friends. For them to not know rules, argue about rules, ask me to make a new magic item or spell every other week, ect. Heck I've now spent 2 hours to trying to prove that even in the current text for the rules that Great Weapon Master doesn't just give you all these other crazy things.
If your players are really being that bad, I’d suggest putting your foot down and tell them they can either accept they don’t get bonuses beyond what’s printed from a feature/feat or they can leave the campaign.
In the realeased UAs: - Weapon Mastery is a feature mainly attached to Classes. With the exception of 1 feat that gives you Weapon Masteries.
- Great Weapon Master, gives some features, but no Weapon Mastery.
As the DM, just explain the ruling you are playing with, you can show the content of the UAs you have approved to play with, or how you homebrew your decision. Discussions with friends can be heated but they end really well (hence being friends its key). I remember an almost 100 emails post long rules lawyer (DM, players, + other friends in the group not playing the campaing which the dm respected) discussion about hide/invisibility/stealth and what can you do with it in a 3.5ed game. The DM was actually using it overpoweringly wrong, but in the end he decided on a definite ruling we ended using the rest of the campaing, and not hard feelings afterwards (even on an very confrontational campaing, which that Dm thrived on).
But also take the advice The_Ace_of_Rogues gave, you are the DM and you dive the definite ruling on everything, if they don't like it enough to stop playing, its their decision.
Player takes the feat Great Weapon Master and thinks he gets the new Unearth Arcana Weapon Mastery skills like Graze and Cleave. I don't think that's how that works since I mashed them into a pre-established game to just make those Weapon Mastery skills work like if you learn vex then vex on all vex weapons. Saying he has all those skills on top of Great Weapon Master seems crazy to me.
It's very simple. Great Weapon Master does not give you access to weapon mastery properties, because it does not say it gives them to you. Feats do what they say they do, no more and no less. Neither the 2014 GWM feat nor the version that appeared in early playtests for the 2024 books said they let you use weapon master properties. Just because the feat has the word "Master" in it doesn't change what the feat actually says.
In the 2nd UA, the GWM feat requires proficiency with Martial Weapons to take it. The classes with Martial Weapon proficiency also get Weapon Mastery, so the likelihood is that you would already have Weapon Mastery if you can take the GWM feat.
In the 2nd UA, the GWM feat requires proficiency with Martial Weapons to take it. The classes with Martial Weapon proficiency also get Weapon Mastery, so the likelihood is that you would already have Weapon Mastery if you can take the GWM feat.
except monk
Monk has (in the most recent UA) neither Martial Weapon proficiency nor Weapon Mastery.
In the 2nd UA, the GWM feat requires proficiency with Martial Weapons to take it. The classes with Martial Weapon proficiency also get Weapon Mastery, so the likelihood is that you would already have Weapon Mastery if you can take the GWM feat.
except monk
Monk has (in the most recent UA) neither Martial Weapon proficiency nor Weapon Mastery.
actually they do have martial weapon proficiency, which im thankful for because it is a prereq on some good feats.
they have proficiency with light martial weapons now. But they do not have mastery.
Weapons: Simple Weapons, Martial Weapons that have the Light property
In the 2nd UA, the GWM feat requires proficiency with Martial Weapons to take it. The classes with Martial Weapon proficiency also get Weapon Mastery, so the likelihood is that you would already have Weapon Mastery if you can take the GWM feat.
except monk
Monk has (in the most recent UA) neither Martial Weapon proficiency nor Weapon Mastery.
actually they do have martial weapon proficiency, which im thankful for because it is a prereq on some good feats.
they have proficiency with light martial weapons now. But they do not have mastery.
Weapons: Simple Weapons, Martial Weapons that have the Light property
My apologies: you are quite right. I knew that but had forgotten. Shortswords, as before, but also now scimitars and, unexpectedly, hand crossbows.
Isn't there a feat the gives you access to weapon mastery properties? If a feat exists that ONLY gives you a weapon mastery to play with, it stands to reason that another feat doesn't give you the same thing AND something extra.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Isn't there a feat the gives you access to weapon mastery properties? If a feat exists that ONLY gives you a weapon mastery to play with, it stands to reason that another feat doesn't give you the same thing AND something extra.
The Weapon Master feat of UA5 did this I believe, a bit lack luster tho, it was limited to a single weapon type.
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Player takes the feat Great Weapon Master and thinks he gets the new Unearth Arcana Weapon Mastery skills like Graze and Cleave. I don't think that's how that works since I mashed them into a pre-established game to just make those Weapon Mastery skills work like if you learn vex then vex on all vex weapons. Saying he has all those skills on top of Great Weapon Master seems crazy to me.
As presently written Great Weapon Master does not give you access to the weapon mastery system. Though the names are similar, Great Weapon Master does two things, neither of which is “provide access to weapon mastery system.”
Can anyone actually know the answer to this? It isn't even released yet. Any answer is just a guess
Yes, you can know the answer—Great Weapon Master decidedly has been released and it makes no mention of the mastery system. Therefore taking the feat does not give you anything beyond the two things it does. No guessing required—the present rules are very clear it does currently not convey access to weapon mastery.
Now, could that change? Sure—but the fact the answer may change in the future does not change the fact that there is an answer presently, and that answer is “no, it does not.”
Ok yeah if they're asking about current rules then obviously this is true that future releases don't exist yet and there is no way to obtain them. I assumed he was asking about how the future release will work since he said he is attempting to use them in an existing campaign, but how exactly they're going to work is still anyone's guess.
FWIW my guess would be that Great Weapon Master is already incredibly powerful as it is, and they wouldn't buff it further by also adding weapon mastery on top of it - but that's just me guessing.
Based on past patterns, I would be surprised if any feats gave weapon masteries in addition to other features.
In the 2nd UA, the GWM feat requires proficiency with Martial Weapons to take it. The classes with Martial Weapon proficiency also get Weapon Mastery, so the likelihood is that you would already have Weapon Mastery if you can take the GWM feat.
I am not asking about future rules.
The Great Weapon Master feat doesn't say it has has any interaction with Weapon Mastery.
If your players are really being that bad, I’d suggest putting your foot down and tell them they can either accept they don’t get bonuses beyond what’s printed from a feature/feat or they can leave the campaign.
In the realeased UAs:
- Weapon Mastery is a feature mainly attached to Classes. With the exception of 1 feat that gives you Weapon Masteries.
- Great Weapon Master, gives some features, but no Weapon Mastery.
As the DM, just explain the ruling you are playing with, you can show the content of the UAs you have approved to play with, or how you homebrew your decision. Discussions with friends can be heated but they end really well (hence being friends its key). I remember an almost 100 emails post long rules lawyer (DM, players, + other friends in the group not playing the campaing which the dm respected) discussion about hide/invisibility/stealth and what can you do with it in a 3.5ed game. The DM was actually using it overpoweringly wrong, but in the end he decided on a definite ruling we ended using the rest of the campaing, and not hard feelings afterwards (even on an very confrontational campaing, which that Dm thrived on).
But also take the advice The_Ace_of_Rogues gave, you are the DM and you dive the definite ruling on everything, if they don't like it enough to stop playing, its their decision.
It's very simple. Great Weapon Master does not give you access to weapon mastery properties, because it does not say it gives them to you. Feats do what they say they do, no more and no less. Neither the 2014 GWM feat nor the version that appeared in early playtests for the 2024 books said they let you use weapon master properties. Just because the feat has the word "Master" in it doesn't change what the feat actually says.
except monk
Monk has (in the most recent UA) neither Martial Weapon proficiency nor Weapon Mastery.
actually they do have martial weapon proficiency, which im thankful for because it is a prereq on some good feats.
they have proficiency with light martial weapons now. But they do not have mastery.
My apologies: you are quite right. I knew that but had forgotten. Shortswords, as before, but also now scimitars and, unexpectedly, hand crossbows.
Isn't there a feat the gives you access to weapon mastery properties? If a feat exists that ONLY gives you a weapon mastery to play with, it stands to reason that another feat doesn't give you the same thing AND something extra.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
The Weapon Master feat of UA5 did this I believe, a bit lack luster tho, it was limited to a single weapon type.