Currently only have one real question that I'd like to get some feed back on. It has to do with the pact of blade giving proficiency to a pact weapon and come of the new pact of blade invocations specifically the moon bow. As the pact proficiency states only melee weapons in the PHB, would you grant proficiency with the moonbow too?
Apart from that what are your thoughts on the UA Warlock additions?
First part, I don't think there's any question the intent of Moon Bow is to grant proficiency with the weapon. Pact weapon mentions proficiency with your pact weapon you create, Moon Bow grants another weapon you can create. The exact statement is "You are proficient with it while you wield it." Moon Bow is a specific which overrides the general pact blade limitation of melee weapons. Since your bow is your pact blade you created, you are proficient.
Apart from that I honestly love all the options for warlocks. Many of the invocations make the patrons feel unique and special.
I have concerns about Hexblade patron because it is really powerful to dip into, and have hexblades curse on top of hex is really a bit clunky and complex. Hexblade's curse should probably be worded such that it modified the Hex spell, and possibly is a bit less powerful since its applying both effects with 1 bonus action now.
Another concern I have is with all the special pact weapons, they are great, but for a bladelock they end up using a large number invocations for their weapon. Since the invocations like Moon Bow preclude you from binding weapons you found and keeping the benefit, its almost required to get the improved blade invocations as well. So at level 12 you would have Thirsty Blade, Moon Bow, Life Drinker and Superior Pact Weapon. 4 of 6 invocations doesn't leave as many for the fun things. Allowing you to bind appropriate weapons to gain the properties would alleviate the need of the improved pact weapon invocations, but would be hard to word without being too clunky itself.
Also not allowing Curse Bringer to work with one of the key features of Hexblade patron (attack/damage based off of CHA) seems counter intuitive.
Overall, lots of great ideas, that just need some tweaking to make flow smoothly. I want to play around with them in a campaign as soon as I can.
IS it possible that not all are meant to be played in combination? The UA material is technically playtesting material, but you make a lot of good points. When I built my blade lock and looking at those choices I tried to grant myself the most utility possible so I didn't think of stacking effects.
My party is STUMPED by the FeyLock with a Moon Bow. First encounter was in a city at night, and they never saw the warlock and spent a lot of time trying to figure out the strange white arrows.
Second encounter, they got the drop on the lock and she never summoned her bow. They decided to knock her out after getting her to 3 hp instead of killing because they could not figure out what is going on. So, at the beginning of this week's game, they have an interrogation....
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DM -- Elanon -- Homebrew world
Gronn -- Tiefling Warlock -- Amarath
Slim -- Halfling Cleric -- CoS (future Lord of Waterdeep 😁)
Curse Bringer not getting keying off Cha was intentional, but Crawford said they are taking feedback on it. It allows for Cha-based, EB based, and Str-based Warlocks. Go for Cha if you want a 1-hand/versatile weapon, EB for what is effectively a ranged martial, or Cursebringer/2-hander for Str and all the Great Weapon Master/Polearm Master shenanigans. Or, bring a Quarterstaff and get you a weapon that can do both.
Given that you can't take it before you have Pact Weapon (which you get at 3rd level), but you don't get another invocation until 5th level, why doesn't the requirements list 5th level?
Am I missing something? Is there some way to take the Moon Bow invocation at 3rd level that I'm not grasping?
Yeah Theo you are missing something. Every class you gain of warlock lets you swap out invocations. So when you hit level three and get pact of blade feature you can swap out one of your invocations for the moon bow.
Yeah Theo you are missing something. Every class you gain of warlock lets you swap out invocations. So when you hit level three and get pact of blade feature you can swap out one of your invocations for the moon bow.
Ah. I had read that blurb in the book to mean you could replace an invocation you previously learned with one that you could have learned at the level where you had learned the one you are replacing.
That would mean that you could swap out an invocation, but if you picked one that you learned at 3nd level, you couldn't replace it with one that had a prerequisite you didn't meet until 3rd level. If that's not the case, then it's just a matter of dealing with the annoyance of, "why can't I do that thing I used to be able to do?".
Yeah Theo you are missing something. Every class you gain of warlock lets you swap out invocations. So when you hit level three and get pact of blade feature you can swap out one of your invocations for the moon bow.
Ah. I had read that blurb in the book to mean you could replace an invocation you previously learned with one that you could have learned at the level where you had learned the one you are replacing.
That would mean that you could swap out an invocation, but if you picked one that you learned at 3nd level, you couldn't replace it with one that had a prerequisite you didn't meet until 3rd level. If that's not the case, then it's just a matter of dealing with the annoyance of, "why can't I do that thing I used to be able to do?".
Because your patron has chosen to change the gifts that they grant to you. They used to want you to do that. Now they want you to do this.
Conversely, because you (the player) choose the Invocations, you're just requesting a different power from your patron. In the end it's a wash, but swapping powers gained from a source are the easiest to reconcile why you can no longer do something.
Currently only have one real question that I'd like to get some feed back on. It has to do with the pact of blade giving proficiency to a pact weapon and come of the new pact of blade invocations specifically the moon bow. As the pact proficiency states only melee weapons in the PHB, would you grant proficiency with the moonbow too?
Apart from that what are your thoughts on the UA Warlock additions?
Warlock and Wizard Unearthed Arcana
First part, I don't think there's any question the intent of Moon Bow is to grant proficiency with the weapon. Pact weapon mentions proficiency with your pact weapon you create, Moon Bow grants another weapon you can create. The exact statement is "You are proficient with it while you wield it." Moon Bow is a specific which overrides the general pact blade limitation of melee weapons. Since your bow is your pact blade you created, you are proficient.
Apart from that I honestly love all the options for warlocks. Many of the invocations make the patrons feel unique and special.
I have concerns about Hexblade patron because it is really powerful to dip into, and have hexblades curse on top of hex is really a bit clunky and complex. Hexblade's curse should probably be worded such that it modified the Hex spell, and possibly is a bit less powerful since its applying both effects with 1 bonus action now.
Another concern I have is with all the special pact weapons, they are great, but for a bladelock they end up using a large number invocations for their weapon. Since the invocations like Moon Bow preclude you from binding weapons you found and keeping the benefit, its almost required to get the improved blade invocations as well. So at level 12 you would have Thirsty Blade, Moon Bow, Life Drinker and Superior Pact Weapon. 4 of 6 invocations doesn't leave as many for the fun things. Allowing you to bind appropriate weapons to gain the properties would alleviate the need of the improved pact weapon invocations, but would be hard to word without being too clunky itself.
Also not allowing Curse Bringer to work with one of the key features of Hexblade patron (attack/damage based off of CHA) seems counter intuitive.
Overall, lots of great ideas, that just need some tweaking to make flow smoothly. I want to play around with them in a campaign as soon as I can.
IS it possible that not all are meant to be played in combination? The UA material is technically playtesting material, but you make a lot of good points. When I built my blade lock and looking at those choices I tried to grant myself the most utility possible so I didn't think of stacking effects.
have to tell this story:
My party is STUMPED by the FeyLock with a Moon Bow. First encounter was in a city at night, and they never saw the warlock and spent a lot of time trying to figure out the strange white arrows.
Second encounter, they got the drop on the lock and she never summoned her bow. They decided to knock her out after getting her to 3 hp instead of killing because they could not figure out what is going on. So, at the beginning of this week's game, they have an interrogation....
--
DM -- Elanon -- Homebrew world
Gronn -- Tiefling Warlock -- Amarath
Slim -- Halfling Cleric -- CoS (future Lord of Waterdeep 😁)
Bran -- Human Wizard - RoT
Making D&D mistakes and having fun since 1977!
Curse Bringer not getting keying off Cha was intentional, but Crawford said they are taking feedback on it. It allows for Cha-based, EB based, and Str-based Warlocks. Go for Cha if you want a 1-hand/versatile weapon, EB for what is effectively a ranged martial, or Cursebringer/2-hander for Str and all the Great Weapon Master/Polearm Master shenanigans. Or, bring a Quarterstaff and get you a weapon that can do both.
My question about Moon Bow is this:
Given that you can't take it before you have Pact Weapon (which you get at 3rd level), but you don't get another invocation until 5th level, why doesn't the requirements list 5th level?
Am I missing something? Is there some way to take the Moon Bow invocation at 3rd level that I'm not grasping?
Yeah Theo you are missing something. Every class you gain of warlock lets you swap out invocations. So when you hit level three and get pact of blade feature you can swap out one of your invocations for the moon bow.
Conversely, because you (the player) choose the Invocations, you're just requesting a different power from your patron. In the end it's a wash, but swapping powers gained from a source are the easiest to reconcile why you can no longer do something.
That presumes a rather 'hands on' patron, though.