As for exclusivity, I would rather have more magic item options via Infusion/Replicate Magic Item than exclusive items. I would like some of the Artificer exclusive 3.5 Infusions (their spells in 3.5) to make a return as Artificer exclusive spells.
Its been a while since i read them, and many things i remember are mixed together with the DDO Artificer...but things like "create ammo" would fit nicely too. I mean, technically ammo is already considered a weapon, right? Though there is no explanation for how many you create, and a single arrow per day would be kinda useless.
You're not arguing about the balance of the proposed changes to the artificer. You're arguing the balance of magic items without knowing how magic items are balanced.
Between a Broom of Flying and pair of Winged Boots, which one do you think is the wrong rarity? Because they're both uncommon Wondrous Items that require attunement, and they both behave very differently with different limitations.
There's more to magic items rarity than just what it can do. I don't know if you lot will ever understand or accept that. And until you do, you're going to have a bad time.
You're not arguing about the balance of the proposed changes to the artificer. You're arguing the balance of magic items without knowing how magic items are balanced.
Between a Broom of Flying and pair of Winged Boots, which one do you think is the wrong rarity? Because they're both uncommon Wondrous Items that require attunement, and they both behave very differently with different limitations.
There's more to magic items rarity than just what it can do. I don't know if you lot will ever understand or accept that. And until you do, you're going to have a bad time.
I was personally shocked the day that I first learned that the Broom of Flying was merely uncommon. I would have categorized it as rare.
You're not arguing about the balance of the proposed changes to the artificer. You're arguing the balance of magic items without knowing how magic items are balanced.
Between a Broom of Flying and pair of Winged Boots, which one do you think is the wrong rarity? Because they're both uncommon Wondrous Items that require attunement, and they both behave very differently with different limitations.
There's more to magic items rarity than just what it can do. I don't know if you lot will ever understand or accept that. And until you do, you're going to have a bad time.
This is a playtest forum. If you aren't willing to accept that and question the rules, class design, and magic design, you're going to have a bad time.
As far as the two example items, neither one is necessarily the wrong rarity.
In 3.x, the rules aren't direct parallels to 5e, but it's not far off and magic item pricing and rarity was more exposed. Within a tier of magic items (Minor, Medium, and Major), there were a range of GP values, including overlap. Looking at the transition to 5e/2024, magic items have been categorized into Common, Uncommon, Rare, Very Rare, Legendary, and Artifact rarities and each of these assigned a rough GP recommendation. Behind the scenes, each category will represent a range of power and value.
Looking at 3.x, Winged Boots were worth less than a Broom of Flying but were in the same Magic Item category. In 5e, both have been buffed from their 3.x versions and share the same magic item categories. Objectively, I would say a Broom of Flying is the more powerful item, but there are scenarios where Winged Boots are the better choice. If the items were assigned granular GP prices like in 3.x, either in a published format or behind the scenes for internal purposes, I would expect Winged Boots to again be lower in value than the Broom of Flying, but not so much as to bump it down to Common. I would not be surprised if a Broom of Flying is on the edge of Rare. I would be curious about any official take on using a Broom of Flying in combat.
You're not arguing about the balance of the proposed changes to the artificer. You're arguing the balance of magic items without knowing how magic items are balanced.
Between a Broom of Flying and pair of Winged Boots, which one do you think is the wrong rarity? Because they're both uncommon Wondrous Items that require attunement, and they both behave very differently with different limitations.
There's more to magic items rarity than just what it can do. I don't know if you lot will ever understand or accept that. And until you do, you're going to have a bad time.
Thats a tricky question, because both have advantages and disadvantages.
The Broom says that it is ridden, so it works like a Mount. The Boots are worn and provide you with fly speed. Since it is ridden, it means that you have to succeed a save if you are knocked prone. The boots have the description of slow descent, so i guess that counts as hover which makes you immune to falling?
It can carry up to 400 lb, the Boots dont have a limit because they give you a Flying Speed, so the limit is your strength.
Broom has 50ft speed, boots have 30, but since with the boots you are the one flying, you can take the dash action. im not sure if an animated object like the broom can use that action too.
Boots have a usage limit of 1h per charge, so up to 4h per day. Broom doesnt have that.
So i would say neither is placed in the wrong rarity, since the only thing they share is "fly", but the way they provide it is vastly different. Outside of combat the Broom is more valuable, while the Boots have a better In-Combat use.
BUT: I personally believe that combat flying is way too powerful and should be placed higher in rarity.
Broom has 50ft speed, boots have 30, but since with the boots you are the one flying, you can take the dash action. im not sure if an animated object like the broom can use that action too.
I was about to correct you about the boots' speed but then saw that the Winged Boots got downgraded from the 2014 version. Bummer. The new version is simpler, but I wish that they kept the fly speed equal to your walking speed.
You're not arguing about the balance of the proposed changes to the artificer. You're arguing the balance of magic items without knowing how magic items are balanced.
Between a Broom of Flying and pair of Winged Boots, which one do you think is the wrong rarity? Because they're both uncommon Wondrous Items that require attunement, and they both behave very differently with different limitations.
There's more to magic items rarity than just what it can do. I don't know if you lot will ever understand or accept that. And until you do, you're going to have a bad time.
This is a playtest forum. If you aren't willing to accept that and question the rules, class design, and magic design, you're going to have a bad time.
As far as the two example items, neither one is necessarily the wrong rarity.
In 3.x, the rules aren't direct parallels to 5e, but it's not far off and magic item pricing and rarity was more exposed. Within a tier of magic items (Minor, Medium, and Major), there were a range of GP values, including overlap. Looking at the transition to 5e/2024, magic items have been categorized into Common, Uncommon, Rare, Very Rare, Legendary, and Artifact rarities and each of these assigned a rough GP recommendation. Behind the scenes, each category will represent a range of power and value.
Looking at 3.x, Winged Boots were worth less than a Broom of Flying but were in the same Magic Item category. In 5e, both have been buffed from their 3.x versions and share the same magic item categories. Objectively, I would say a Broom of Flying is the more powerful item, but there are scenarios where Winged Boots are the better choice. If the items were assigned granular GP prices like in 3.x, either in a published format or behind the scenes for internal purposes, I would expect Winged Boots to again be lower in value than the Broom of Flying, but not so much as to bump it down to Common. I would not be surprised if a Broom of Flying is on the edge of Rare. I would be curious about any official take on using a Broom of Flying in combat.
I shouldn't have to type this, but I will anyway: whatever happened in 3.X is entirely irrelevant here. It's now been more than 20 years since the artificer first became a base class. It was a prestige class before that, and a wizard kit back in '96. Whether a magic item is minor, major, of how much is cost in 2005 is fine...if you're going to play with those rules.
And we're not here to do that, are we? We're here to play. I've been around the block a few times and played a lot of D&D; and a lot of other games, too. I'm not married to terms like "Infusion" and "Ki" the way some people are. I can adapt and be flexible. I understand my role in giving feedback through structured surveys, and I understand that the survey wasn't really concerned with taking a lot of notes: just satisfaction.
This entire thread has read like a bunch of power gamers self-flagellating because they can't adapt. I didn't even read all of the original post because, out of 20 total comments, it takes up a third of the page. That's excessive.
And here's a gem from Comment #8
In addition to the utility of this UA's version of "Magical Tinkering" being largely undermined by the fact that D&D is a co-op game (rather than solo play) by default -- because you can almost certainly count on a good portion of the adventuring gear items you can create with this Level 1 feature being amongst the equipment carried by your fellow party members...
It is completely invalidated by your Level 2 "Replicate Magic Item" feature, specifically the Level 2+ Bag of Holding item plan.
No, to all of this. You're not supposed to have the same magic items replicated. You can, but what's the point of having access to more plans than items if you aren't going to use them? The intent is to create these items as situations warrant. I would hope that's obvious, but we're now in the third page without so much as a peep from anyone else on that. Magical Tinkering is a liberating feature because it means you're less dependent on having all the items bought ahead of time. It literally lessens the need for a Bag of Holding; making that a genuine choice and not a "must-have" at the table.
I don't believe any of you want a balanced class or magic items. I think y'all want your class and magic items, and you'll cry foul if it isn't good enough for whatever your standard is. I've seen hyperbole and in some cases straight up misinformation from some of you. I'm not crazy about stuff being replicated out of thin air, instead of being modified, but both come with minor pitfalls. Still, let's look at Replicate Magic Item.
At 2nd level, someone could theoretically (if they're creating armor out of nothing) give themselves a sizable AC boost; up to 21. But that's not any higher than a paladin wearing Chain Mail and a Shield with the Defense Fighting Style Feat and an active Shield of Faith. Both take a significant investment on the part of the player. I'm okay with that.
At 6th level, they get a few new options. Nothing here breaks the game, though I'm still sad stuff like Repeating Shot doesn't become available until a level after the Battle Smith gets Extra Attack.
At 10th level, Magic Item Adept affords access to all uncommon magic items...sort of. They only learn one new plan, and can only swap one plan each level up. So, really, only two of their six plans can be from this expanded list. And while they can stretch ratio to 1:5 over the next three levels...
At 14th level, Magic Item Savant pulls the same trick with rare magic items. Seven total plans, up to five magic items created (and attuned to) at once, and a maximum of two plans for rare magic items.
None of that strikes me as being terrible. And the artificer is still supposed to get loot, just like everyon else, so they shouldn't be entirely reliant on their own ability to make magic items. They're build to be at capacity for stingy game tables, but that's a worst-case scenario. Yes, they might create and attune to magic items on the fly. But their real strength is having the flexibility to change up to two of these replicated items per day.
And if, as a DM, you don't want your artificer to have access to a list of all magic items in the DMG and elsewhere, that's fine. They can just learn to replicate whatever the party finds. For those of you so interested in balance, you should also know it's not one-and-done. Balance is a process that continues even after books are published. Just as characters grow stronger, players grow smarter. The relative strength of a magic item can change depending on who is wielding it, what they're wielding it against, and the environment it is being wielded in.
Between the people complaining that more magic items are being added to the game and the people who are complaing they don't know company trade secrets, I have no idea what will make you all happy. But I am at the end of my rope, as to what else I can say that might be remotely helpful, so I'm unsubscribing from this thread. Good luck to y'all.
Who would have thought being repeatedly told "ya'll don't know what you're talking about" then when someone states "We'd love to understand, but WoTC hasn't made that information clear" and then claiming we're complaining about not knowing 'trade secrets' would be construed as unhelpful?
Yes, how dare we not know the things we're not entitled to know? And how dare we, in our ignorance attempt to discuss things anyway?
Being berated for ignorance while not offered a pathway out of ignorance isn't helpful in any context. Or if it is, I've never seen it be. I blame my ignorance.
Aaaanyhow: Not having to carry some things is a benefit of Magical Tinkering (both versions). Similar to how the Light cantrip means you don't have to carry a torch. It's also a benefit that's made pointless in a game that doesn't care about encumbrance, which seems to be the way the PHB implies things going most of the time. Granted, carrying a lot of adventuring gear in a bag is one of the things that encumbrance rules were made for. So mileage may vary depending on DM.
It's also not a very exciting benefit, nor one that feels all that magical. The prior version of Magical Tinkering served as a fun inspiration for finding things the Artificer could uniquely do. The UA Magical Tinkering is less so, since it's primary benefit is "having the equipment" and literally anyone can "have equipment." Few creatures can record 6 seconds of audio to be played back later.
Being able to have the equipment at a moments notice certainly encourages the use of said equipment and comes in handy if the party is ever imprisoned (but bizarrely still has access to Tinker's Tools for some reason) but that strikes me as rare.
But if I could conjure a rope and use it in the same action? That'd be neat, and quite valuable. Like if I could conjure a rope already tied to a doorknob and then pull the door shut, I'd basically be recreating the "slam doors shut" ability of Thamaturgy but with a style and flair appropriate for the Artificer. Or if I could conjure a sheet of paper already written on I could recreate one of the potential uses of the Old Magical Tinkering, instead of having to dedicate an action to materialize the paper and maybe a minute of hasty scribbling. etc.
In addition to the utility of this UA's version of "Magical Tinkering" being largely undermined by the fact that D&D is a co-op game (rather than solo play) by default -- because you can almost certainly count on a good portion of the adventuring gear items you can create with this Level 1 feature being amongst the equipment carried by your fellow party members...
It is completely invalidated by your Level 2 "Replicate Magic Item" feature, specifically the Level 2+ Bag of Holding item plan.
No, to all of this. You're not supposed to have the same magic items replicated. You can, but what's the point of having access to more plans than items if you aren't going to use them? The intent is to create these items as situations warrant. I would hope that's obvious, but we're now in the third page without so much as a peep from anyone else on that. Magical Tinkering is a liberating feature because it means you're less dependent on having all the items bought ahead of time. It literally lessens the need for a Bag of Holding; making that a genuine choice and not a "must-have" at the table.
I don't believe any of you want a balanced class or magic items. I think y'all want your class and magic items, and you'll cry foul if it isn't good enough for whatever your standard is. I've seen hyperbole and in some cases straight up misinformation from some of you. I'm not crazy about stuff being replicated out of thin air, instead of being modified, but both come with minor pitfalls. Still, let's look at Replicate Magic Item.
At 2nd level, someone could theoretically (if they're creating armor out of nothing) give themselves a sizable AC boost; up to 21. But that's not any higher than a paladin wearing Chain Mail and a Shield with the Defense Fighting Style Feat and an active Shield of Faith. Both take a significant investment on the part of the player. I'm okay with that.
At 6th level, they get a few new options. Nothing here breaks the game, though I'm still sad stuff like Repeating Shot doesn't become available until a level after the Battle Smith gets Extra Attack.
At 10th level, Magic Item Adept affords access to all uncommon magic items...sort of. They only learn one new plan, and can only swap one plan each level up. So, really, only two of their six plans can be from this expanded list. And while they can stretch ratio to 1:5 over the next three levels...
At 14th level, Magic Item Savant pulls the same trick with rare magic items. Seven total plans, up to five magic items created (and attuned to) at once, and a maximum of two plans for rare magic items.
None of that strikes me as being terrible. And the artificer is still supposed to get loot, just like everyon else, so they shouldn't be entirely reliant on their own ability to make magic items. They're build to be at capacity for stingy game tables, but that's a worst-case scenario. Yes, they might create and attune to magic items on the fly. But their real strength is having the flexibility to change up to two of these replicated items per day.
And if, as a DM, you don't want your artificer to have access to a list of all magic items in the DMG and elsewhere, that's fine. They can just learn to replicate whatever the party finds. For those of you so interested in balance, you should also know it's not one-and-done. Balance is a process that continues even after books are published. Just as characters grow stronger, players grow smarter. The relative strength of a magic item can change depending on who is wielding it, what they're wielding it against, and the environment it is being wielded in.
Between the people complaining that more magic items are being added to the game and the people who are complaing they don't know company trade secrets, I have no idea what will make you all happy. But I am at the end of my rope, as to what else I can say that might be remotely helpful, so I'm unsubscribing from this thread. Good luck to y'all.
Replicate Magic Item creates a mundane item, for just 1h. This makes a lot of those items useless. The Containers dont have much use for 1h. The Bedroll cant even be used to sleep through the night Parchment and Paper cant be used to write on. Not only that, you can buy everything on that list for like 15gp. You can start with all of those items. A Bag of Holding isnt even needed for most of them, with exception of the Pole or Shovel, you could fit everything into a Backpack and Bags. If im not wrong, all of those Items weigh slightly above 70lb. 30 of them into the Backpack, 30 into the Sack, 6 into the Pouch, and the remaining 4 you can carry somewhere else.
So no, this feature is not invalidated by Bag of Holding. It is invalidated at character creation. Meanwhile, other characters get things like Unarmored Defense, Fighting Styles, Weapon Mastery, Spell-Like Abilities...and Artificer basically gets an additional 15 starting gold for a few additional bags filled with junk?
Well...personally i would like to keep my old version of it then...best case would be a merge of both, with the new "illusion items" using the old spark system, so you could have up to 5 semi-permanent items active. If an item like ball-bearing is created, use the spell-dc instead and allow it to be used with the same action that created it.
Also, you forget that the new 2024 rules are highly dependent on "downtime activities". The Artificer reflects that well due to the crafting advantages. You are supposed to craft things. thats the primary use of tools now. the Xanathar skill checks are gone or extremely limited.
The crafting further invalidates the Replicate Magic Item feature. Most Items you dont have to learn at all. Bag of Holding? Sure you could get it for free without spending time, you could also spend just 200g and 10 days to get it. The Treasure Tables are now less random, there is no more copper in there, instead the minimum you can find is set to gold. On average it is roughly the same as 2014, but with less extremes. It also suggests one treasure hoard per session. So, you have more gold now, but also more gold sinks.
And i dont even need to wait to have a high enough level to learn a plan. Want a Flame Tongue? Go Battlesmith. 25 days and 2000g and its yours. No need to wait until level 14. Get an assistant too, so you can create it in even less time. I never figured out if a homunculus is a valid assistant... There are no crafting checks or level requirements. Just roll to see if you can buy the materials.
"Free Items on demand" isnt a good feature. Artificer Infusions were good because they were able to do things that items could not do. You could turn a mundane weapon into a magical one on demand. Found a nice new Longsword? Neat, its a +1 when i wake up. Found a Flail that you like better? Neat, now this is my +1 Weapon. With the new system it could be argued that you have to set the weapon type when learning the plan, because each +1 weapon is its own variant. So no more flexibility for you, you are stuck with that +1 shortsword until you level up. If you could learn additional plans, like wizard can learn spells, that would be neat, but also situational. Find a good Dagger that the Rogue wants to use, but you want it too? Doesnt matter, analyze it, replicate it, now you both have one. Another nice thing would be, if "infusions" were no longer restricted to resting. Fight a creature with resistances and no one can harm it? Create a silvered weapon mid combat.
But having an additional 6 items that you can choose? yeah thats not good. Not when you consider that you are supposed to find 100 magic items during your leveling phase...so the only case where this would be beneficial would be, when the DM purely rolls random and you never get anything of use, and you are not allowed to craft or buy items. And lets not forget, you can find rare items at level 1, very rare at level 5. With the 2024 table, there is a 9% chance to find a rare item at level 1, and a level 1 hoard contains up to 3 magic items. so, you could find a Rare Weapon in your first Treasure Hoard...
I shouldn't have to type this, but I will anyway: whatever happened in 3.X is entirely irrelevant here. It's now been more than 20 years since the artificer first became a base class. It was a prestige class before that, and a wizard kit back in '96. Whether a magic item is minor, major, of how much is cost in 2005 is fine...if you're going to play with those rules.
3.x sets precedence that has carried forward to current edition. 5e was created after the backlash from 4e and moved the design back towards 3.5. There are definite patterns that are present in both. If you are going to ignore them, don't bemoan ignorance of the design process and don't try to force it on others.
This entire thread has read like a bunch of power gamers self-flagellating because they can't adapt. I didn't even read all of the original post because, out of 20 total comments, it takes up a third of the page. That's excessive.
And here's a gem from Comment #8
In addition to the utility of this UA's version of "Magical Tinkering" being largely undermined by the fact that D&D is a co-op game (rather than solo play) by default -- because you can almost certainly count on a good portion of the adventuring gear items you can create with this Level 1 feature being amongst the equipment carried by your fellow party members...
It is completely invalidated by your Level 2 "Replicate Magic Item" feature, specifically the Level 2+ Bag of Holding item plan.
No, to all of this. You're not supposed to have the same magic items replicated. You can, but what's the point of having access to more plans than items if you aren't going to use them? The intent is to create these items as situations warrant. I would hope that's obvious, but we're now in the third page without so much as a peep from anyone else on that. Magical Tinkering is a liberating feature because it means you're less dependent on having all the items bought ahead of time. It literally lessens the need for a Bag of Holding; making that a genuine choice and not a "must-have" at the table.
If you can't be bothered to read the comments by your own admission, then how do you expect to respond to them appropriately? What are you going to do with the items from Magical Tinkering when they last for an hour? What are you going to do with Artisan Tools when can summon them for an hour? Some items have value, like Ball Bearings or Caltrops, but others are pretty pointless. However, being able to summon these 3-5 times per long rest is terrible. If they lasted longer, or if the uses refreshed on a short rest, or if you had more uses, it would be less of an issue, but it would still be bad and continue to contribute to the Artificer feeling like a trinket summoner and not a crafting class.
Magical Tinkering isn't made obsolete by replicating a Bag of Holding. It's made obsolete by access to a merchant. A Bag of Holding, found or replicated, just adds insult to injury.
I don't believe any of you want a balanced class or magic items. I think y'all want your class and magic items, and you'll cry foul if it isn't good enough for whatever your standard is. I've seen hyperbole and in some cases straight up misinformation from some of you. I'm not crazy about stuff being replicated out of thin air, instead of being modified, but both come with minor pitfalls. Still, let's look at Replicate Magic Item.
At 2nd level, someone could theoretically (if they're creating armor out of nothing) give themselves a sizable AC boost; up to 21. But that's not any higher than a paladin wearing Chain Mail and a Shield with the Defense Fighting Style Feat and an active Shield of Faith. Both take a significant investment on the part of the player. I'm okay with that.
At 6th level, they get a few new options. Nothing here breaks the game, though I'm still sad stuff like Repeating Shot doesn't become available until a level after the Battle Smith gets Extra Attack.
At 10th level, Magic Item Adept affords access to all uncommon magic items...sort of. They only learn one new plan, and can only swap one plan each level up. So, really, only two of their six plans can be from this expanded list. And while they can stretch ratio to 1:5 over the next three levels...
At 14th level, Magic Item Savant pulls the same trick with rare magic items. Seven total plans, up to five magic items created (and attuned to) at once, and a maximum of two plans for rare magic items.
A 2nd level Artificer can't replicate armor and they don't have Heavy Armor.
They could replicate a +1 shield and wear Half-Plate if you assume that they found or crafted 750 GP armor by level 2, they could have up to a 20 AC. A Paladin wearing Splint Mail (200 GP), a shield and using the Defense Fighting Style would have an AC of 20, casting Shield of Faith would take it up to 22 for 10 minutes.
An armor wanting to dual wield or use a two-handed weapon would be 1 AC behind the Paladin taking the same path and not casting Shield of Faith.
In order to reach AC 21, it would have to be an Armorer Artificer at level 3 and have access to Full Plate (1,500 GP), using a replicated +1 shield. A Paladin with a Shield, Defense Fighting Style, wearing the same Full Plate armor would have 21 AC (23 if casting Shield of Faith).
Repeating Shot wouldn't have much benefit before 6th level. However, it could be moved to a 5th level if they disconnected the Replicate Magic Item level requirements from trying to hide the features lost from Magic Item Adept and Magic Item Savant.
At level 10, Artificers do not have access to all Uncommon Magic Items. They cannot replicate uncommon (or, at level 14, rare) potions, scrolls, rods, or staves.
At best, an Artificer gets 2 more plans known than they can have actively replicated. Combined with the restriction against duplicating replicated items, that significantly hinders the ability to be adapt day to day. Pre-UA had 4 additional plans known. Having a repertoire of 12 plans that you could switch between would significantly help the artificer's versatility without significantly affecting their power.
And the artificer is still supposed to get loot, just like everyon else, so they shouldn't be entirely reliant on their own ability to make magic items. They're build to be at capacity for stingy game tables, but that's a worst-case scenario. Yes, they might create and attune to magic items on the fly. But their real strength is having the flexibility to change up to two of these replicated items per day.
The Artificer's class features, including Replicate Magic Item, should stand up to other class's features and be different, but reasonably within the same power level for a given level. They should not be compared against the loot by level tables. The magic items they replicate or infuse should be their forms of buffing the party or themselves.
A 2nd level Artificer can't replicate armor and they don't have Heavy Armor.
They could replicate a +1 shield and wear Half-Plate if you assume that they found or crafted 750 GP armor by level 2, they could have up to a 20 AC. A Paladin wearing Splint Mail (200 GP), a shield and using the Defense Fighting Style would have an AC of 20, casting Shield of Faith would take it up to 22 for 10 minutes.
An armor wanting to dual wield or use a two-handed weapon would be 1 AC behind the Paladin taking the same path and not casting Shield of Faith.
In order to reach AC 21, it would have to be an Armorer Artificer at level 3 and have access to Full Plate (1,500 GP), using a replicated +1 shield. A Paladin with a Shield, Defense Fighting Style, wearing the same Full Plate armor would have 21 AC (23 if casting Shield of Faith).
Repeating Shot wouldn't have much benefit before 6th level. However, it could be moved to a 5th level if they disconnected the Replicate Magic Item level requirements from trying to hide the features lost from Magic Item Adept and Magic Item Savant.
At level 10, Artificers do not have access to all Uncommon Magic Items. They cannot replicate uncommon (or, at level 14, rare) potions, scrolls, rods, or staves.
At best, an Artificer gets 2 more plans known than they can have actively replicated. Combined with the restriction against duplicating replicated items, that significantly hinders the ability to be adapt day to day. Pre-UA had 4 additional plans known. Having a repertoire of 12 plans that you could switch between would significantly help the artificer's versatility without significantly affecting their power.
Small correction there:
Since the new RMI conjures a full item, and the only exception at level 2 is "no scroll, potion, or cursed", it means you can conjure the cosmetic armors. Armor of Gleaming, Smoldering Armor, Cast-Off Armor. So you could maximise the AC you can get from Armor that you can wear, you no longer need to find one to infuse it (personally i dont like this).
So you could conjure a Cast-Off Half Plate 15-17 AC, a +1 Shield, and you would have up to 20 AC too without having to find or buy that armor. BUT: Wearing a shield would prevent them from casting, since with the UA they are no longer considered a focus.
At level 3 the Armorer can just conjure a Cast-Off Full Plate for 18 AC, together with the Shield they too would reach 21. At level 6 they could get 22 by conjuring a +1 Full Plate.
Well, now that the UA for Forgotten Realms is up, i have to say again that Battlesmith needs something more... Bladesinger Wizard has Melee-Weapon as Focus, Cantrip-Extra-Attacks and now even Spell-Extra-Attacks, and they can now use Int for attacks.
This means they have better, stronger, and more spells, faster spell progression, access to rituals without preparing them, the ability to use both hands for martial stuff, and a way to use magic and attacks in the same turn.
So yeah...the minimum should be the same Spell and Attack feature being added to Smith and Armorer.
Since the new RMI conjures a full item, and the only exception at level 2 is "no scroll, potion, or cursed", it means you can conjure the cosmetic armors. Armor of Gleaming, Smoldering Armor, Cast-Off Armor. So you could maximise the AC you can get from Armor that you can wear, you no longer need to find one to infuse it (personally i dont like this).
So you could conjure a Cast-Off Half Plate 15-17 AC, a +1 Shield, and you would have up to 20 AC too without having to find or buy that armor. BUT: Wearing a shield would prevent them from casting, since with the UA they are no longer considered a focus.
At level 3 the Armorer can just conjure a Cast-Off Full Plate for 18 AC, together with the Shield they too would reach 21. At level 6 they could get 22 by conjuring a +1 Full Plate.
I did forget about those because I was looking for putting a bonus on the armor itself. I don't know what Jounichi1983's method was to get to AC 21 at level 2, but I can't find a way without conjuring full plate, but since the Artificer isn't proficient in Heavy Armor, they won't be able to cast spells.
I'm really hoping that they intended for the Replicate Magic Item to continue to act as a focus and it just was forgotten when breaking it out of Tools Required and rewriting Infusions into item summoning.
Well, now that the UA for Forgotten Realms is up, i have to say again that Battlesmith needs something more... Bladesinger Wizard has Melee-Weapon as Focus, Cantrip-Extra-Attacks and now even Spell-Extra-Attacks, and they can now use Int for attacks.
This means they have better, stronger, and more spells, faster spell progression, access to rituals without preparing them, the ability to use both hands for martial stuff, and a way to use magic and attacks in the same turn.
So yeah...the minimum should be the same Spell and Attack feature being added to Smith and Armorer.
As I predicted, Bladesinger doesn't get Weapon Mastery. However, it reinforces my thought that if they bumped back the level 5 subclass feature to level 6, maybe Battle Smiths could get an extra attack feature like College of Valor, Eldritch Knight, and now Bladesingers.
As an Armorer, I think that would suit (no pun intended) the Battle Smith more than the Armorer.
Since the new RMI conjures a full item, and the only exception at level 2 is "no scroll, potion, or cursed", it means you can conjure the cosmetic armors. Armor of Gleaming, Smoldering Armor, Cast-Off Armor. So you could maximise the AC you can get from Armor that you can wear, you no longer need to find one to infuse it (personally i dont like this).
So you could conjure a Cast-Off Half Plate 15-17 AC, a +1 Shield, and you would have up to 20 AC too without having to find or buy that armor. BUT: Wearing a shield would prevent them from casting, since with the UA they are no longer considered a focus.
At level 3 the Armorer can just conjure a Cast-Off Full Plate for 18 AC, together with the Shield they too would reach 21. At level 6 they could get 22 by conjuring a +1 Full Plate.
I did forget about those because I was looking for putting a bonus on the armor itself. I don't know what Jounichi1983's method was to get to AC 21 at level 2, but I can't find a way without conjuring full plate, but since the Artificer isn't proficient in Heavy Armor, they won't be able to cast spells.
I'm really hoping that they intended for the Replicate Magic Item to continue to act as a focus and it just was forgotten when breaking it out of Tools Required and rewriting Infusions into item summoning.
Well, now that the UA for Forgotten Realms is up, i have to say again that Battlesmith needs something more... Bladesinger Wizard has Melee-Weapon as Focus, Cantrip-Extra-Attacks and now even Spell-Extra-Attacks, and they can now use Int for attacks.
This means they have better, stronger, and more spells, faster spell progression, access to rituals without preparing them, the ability to use both hands for martial stuff, and a way to use magic and attacks in the same turn.
So yeah...the minimum should be the same Spell and Attack feature being added to Smith and Armorer.
As I predicted, Bladesinger doesn't get Weapon Mastery. However, it reinforces my thought that if they bumped back the level 5 subclass feature to level 6, maybe Battle Smiths could get an extra attack feature like College of Valor, Eldritch Knight, and now Bladesingers.
As an Armorer, I think that would suit (no pun intended) the Battle Smith more than the Armorer.
Warforged with their +1 to AC would be able to reach 21. Not sure if other species have something like that. But other than that, i cant find a way either.
Cantrip-Extra Attack would suit Battlesmith really well. Due to cantrip scaling, it would be a nice damage boost, so the mastery-discussion can end there.
In case the Replicate Magic Item gets scrapped again, maybe it could be fun to have an Infusion which grants Mastery. And even if not, more infusions to choose from would be fun. If we get infusions back, my wishlist would be:
- Apply infusions to magic items with the exception that you cant apply two attunement-requirements. This would help with scaling and prevent locking the artificer to mundane items. They would be able to find or craft magic gear and further improve it. At level 10 or 14 it could allow up to two infusions on one item when used by the artificer. That way their gear can compete with all the other powerful class abilities.
- Change infusions on the fly without the restriction of a long-rest. This would give them a more gadgety-feel where they can adjust to situation on the fly. At level 6, this could then be enhance with the ability to "drain an infusion and apply a new one".
So, i ve seen people say they need infusions, but im not sure thats not the intent of a weapon+1 plan.
looking at crafting rules, items that incorporate other items can either be crafted from scratch, or created with pre existing items.
you see this in the incorporating other items crafting.
you can make a gleaming scale mail. + 1 with an armor +1 recipe. you merely have to pay for or provide the gleaming scale mail.
now, i dont thinkmagic replication is supposed to provide less functionality than crafting
so i would think the weapon +1 magic plan could also be used to enhance an existing item.
now its possible this is meant to be unique to crafting, but i dont see why it would, especially since they directly say in this UA the +1 infusions are meant to be replaced by the weapon armor and shield +1 2 replications.
Warforged with their +1 to AC would be able to reach 21. Not sure if other species have something like that. But other than that, i cant find a way either.
I considered Warforged, but applying +1 AC as a Warforged Artificer without doing the same as a Warforged Paladin seemed disingenuous.
- Change infusions on the fly without the restriction of a long-rest. This would give them a more gadgety-feel where they can adjust to situation on the fly. At level 6, this could then be enhance with the ability to "drain an infusion and apply a new one".
I was thinking the ability to replace or create a replicated magic item/Infused item X times per long rest would be really nice and lean into the magic item portion of the class. I think I would rather have that than destroy a replicated item for a spell slot.
So, i ve seen people say they need infusions, but im not sure thats not the intent of a weapon+1 plan.
I like the infusion mechanic better solely because when crafting a magic item, you craft/acquire the base item then enchant it. Taking an existing item and enchanting it with temporary magic feels more like rapid magic item crafting than *poof* I have a suit of magic full plate. It's a crafting class, not a summoning one.
- Change infusions on the fly without the restriction of a long-rest. This would give them a more gadgety-feel where they can adjust to situation on the fly. At level 6, this could then be enhance with the ability to "drain an infusion and apply a new one".
I was thinking the ability to replace or create a replicated magic item/Infused item X times per long rest would be really nice and lean into the magic item portion of the class. I think I would rather have that than destroy a replicated item for a spell slot.
Yup, my reason for that is a simple "Artificer isnt a major spellcaster". If the feature would say "you can drain an item to cast a spell, even if it is not prepared, up to 2nd level", then neat, thats something that i would use sometimes. But just recovering a spell slot has the requirement that i have the needed spell prepared. And most of the time, if im in a situation where i sacrifice my items to cast an "oh frick spell", then thats a scenario where i dont have that spell prepared. Infusions or RMI is their major class feature, not spellcasting. So enhance that first, spells second
So, i ve seen people say they need infusions, but im not sure thats not the intent of a weapon+1 plan.
looking at crafting rules, items that incorporate other items can either be crafted from scratch, or created with pre existing items.
you see this in the incorporating other items crafting.
you can make a gleaming scale mail. + 1 with an armor +1 recipe. you merely have to pay for or provide the gleaming scale mail.
now, i dont thinkmagic replication is supposed to provide less functionality than crafting
so i would think the weapon +1 magic plan could also be used to enhance an existing item.
now its possible this is meant to be unique to crafting, but i dont see why it would, especially since they directly say in this UA the +1 infusions are meant to be replaced by the weapon armor and shield +1 2 replications.
And there we are at the unknown variable again. At which point does an item flip rarity? With crafting, you get the first, enhance it with the second. Easy to understand that. But you dont have a way to determine the rarity of the final result then. For example, a +1 Weapon is Uncommon. a +1 Repeating is Uncommon too, even though it has two effects. What if i add one to another? Is my result a +2 Repeating then and it becomes a Rare simply because thats where +2 is located, and Repeating doesnt have a value on its own?
With my idea for Infused Magic Items, thats exactly what would happen. Find a +1 Crossbow? Nice, now you can make it a +2 Repeating by adding the Infusion, but you cant apply a +2 Repeating too a mundane weapon, because it doesnt exist.
With pure RMI where the item is conjured, thats where this system becomes weird. You learn items, not enchantments, so this combined item is now one learned plan. With an infusion based system, this would allow flexibility. Adjust your item to the encounter as needed.
So, i ve seen people say they need infusions, but im not sure thats not the intent of a weapon+1 plan.
I like the infusion mechanic better solely because when crafting a magic item, you craft/acquire the base item then enchant it. Taking an existing item and enchanting it with temporary magic feels more like rapid magic item crafting than *poof* I have a suit of magic full plate. It's a crafting class, not a summoning one.
my interpretation is that if the magic item incorporates an item, with magic replication, you can either craft it whole cloth, or upgrade an existing item, since thats the rules for crafting magic items.
perhaps its not the case with replication, but certain magic items are templates, and are meant to be applied to whatever item, like you are supposed to be able to find/craft a mistral+1 armor. i dont see why magic replication would be unable to replicate such an item.
flavorwise. i prefered some sort of time dialation, but infusion wasnt great for me because it limited you, and it also felt more like poof magic rather than magical science. That said, requiring tons of time crafting is not workable in normal games, so whatever solution would have to be somewhat magical/fast.
for now, i think of the creation effect essentially like them designing the object with their minds and using magic to make it physical/build it. So to me its like a super fast 3d printer, or CNC machine, and the artificer is like the engineer making the CAD design, or programing the 3d printer/cnc machine. It also makes sense to me they use magic to create temporary items or prototypes, but if they want it to be permanent they take that experience and make it with real objects/processes.
Summoning to me seems like bringing something from somwhere else.
perhaps its not the case with replication, but certain magic items are templates, and are meant to be applied to whatever item, like you are supposed to be able to find/craft a mistral+1 armor. i dont see why magic replication would be unable to replicate such an item.
Many items, including the items replicated by Replicate Magic Item are indeed templates. You learn the plan for +1 Weapon, not +1 Scimitar. By RAW, Replicate Magic Item could create Mithral or Admantine weapons and armor if chose the appropriate plan.
flavorwise. i prefered some sort of time dialation, but infusion wasnt great for me because it limited you, and it also felt more like poof magic rather than magical science. That said, requiring tons of time crafting is not workable in normal games, so whatever solution would have to be somewhat magical/fast.
No, if you are going to require significant time, it would probably be better to just craft it. However, enchanting an existing item during a long rest would feel between an expedited crafting and a long duration buff.
Make it a Blowgun. It would finally have a use then :P
Its been a while since i read them, and many things i remember are mixed together with the DDO Artificer...but things like "create ammo" would fit nicely too.
I mean, technically ammo is already considered a weapon, right? Though there is no explanation for how many you create, and a single arrow per day would be kinda useless.
You're not arguing about the balance of the proposed changes to the artificer. You're arguing the balance of magic items without knowing how magic items are balanced.
Between a Broom of Flying and pair of Winged Boots, which one do you think is the wrong rarity? Because they're both uncommon Wondrous Items that require attunement, and they both behave very differently with different limitations.
There's more to magic items rarity than just what it can do. I don't know if you lot will ever understand or accept that. And until you do, you're going to have a bad time.
I was personally shocked the day that I first learned that the Broom of Flying was merely uncommon. I would have categorized it as rare.
This is a playtest forum. If you aren't willing to accept that and question the rules, class design, and magic design, you're going to have a bad time.
As far as the two example items, neither one is necessarily the wrong rarity.
In 3.x, the rules aren't direct parallels to 5e, but it's not far off and magic item pricing and rarity was more exposed. Within a tier of magic items (Minor, Medium, and Major), there were a range of GP values, including overlap. Looking at the transition to 5e/2024, magic items have been categorized into Common, Uncommon, Rare, Very Rare, Legendary, and Artifact rarities and each of these assigned a rough GP recommendation. Behind the scenes, each category will represent a range of power and value.
Looking at 3.x, Winged Boots were worth less than a Broom of Flying but were in the same Magic Item category. In 5e, both have been buffed from their 3.x versions and share the same magic item categories. Objectively, I would say a Broom of Flying is the more powerful item, but there are scenarios where Winged Boots are the better choice. If the items were assigned granular GP prices like in 3.x, either in a published format or behind the scenes for internal purposes, I would expect Winged Boots to again be lower in value than the Broom of Flying, but not so much as to bump it down to Common. I would not be surprised if a Broom of Flying is on the edge of Rare. I would be curious about any official take on using a Broom of Flying in combat.
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Thats a tricky question, because both have advantages and disadvantages.
The Broom says that it is ridden, so it works like a Mount. The Boots are worn and provide you with fly speed. Since it is ridden, it means that you have to succeed a save if you are knocked prone. The boots have the description of slow descent, so i guess that counts as hover which makes you immune to falling?
It can carry up to 400 lb, the Boots dont have a limit because they give you a Flying Speed, so the limit is your strength.
Broom has 50ft speed, boots have 30, but since with the boots you are the one flying, you can take the dash action. im not sure if an animated object like the broom can use that action too.
Boots have a usage limit of 1h per charge, so up to 4h per day. Broom doesnt have that.
So i would say neither is placed in the wrong rarity, since the only thing they share is "fly", but the way they provide it is vastly different. Outside of combat the Broom is more valuable, while the Boots have a better In-Combat use.
BUT: I personally believe that combat flying is way too powerful and should be placed higher in rarity.
I was about to correct you about the boots' speed but then saw that the Winged Boots got downgraded from the 2014 version. Bummer. The new version is simpler, but I wish that they kept the fly speed equal to your walking speed.
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I shouldn't have to type this, but I will anyway: whatever happened in 3.X is entirely irrelevant here. It's now been more than 20 years since the artificer first became a base class. It was a prestige class before that, and a wizard kit back in '96. Whether a magic item is minor, major, of how much is cost in 2005 is fine...if you're going to play with those rules.
And we're not here to do that, are we? We're here to play. I've been around the block a few times and played a lot of D&D; and a lot of other games, too. I'm not married to terms like "Infusion" and "Ki" the way some people are. I can adapt and be flexible. I understand my role in giving feedback through structured surveys, and I understand that the survey wasn't really concerned with taking a lot of notes: just satisfaction.
This entire thread has read like a bunch of power gamers self-flagellating because they can't adapt. I didn't even read all of the original post because, out of 20 total comments, it takes up a third of the page. That's excessive.
And here's a gem from Comment #8
No, to all of this. You're not supposed to have the same magic items replicated. You can, but what's the point of having access to more plans than items if you aren't going to use them? The intent is to create these items as situations warrant. I would hope that's obvious, but we're now in the third page without so much as a peep from anyone else on that. Magical Tinkering is a liberating feature because it means you're less dependent on having all the items bought ahead of time. It literally lessens the need for a Bag of Holding; making that a genuine choice and not a "must-have" at the table.
I don't believe any of you want a balanced class or magic items. I think y'all want your class and magic items, and you'll cry foul if it isn't good enough for whatever your standard is. I've seen hyperbole and in some cases straight up misinformation from some of you. I'm not crazy about stuff being replicated out of thin air, instead of being modified, but both come with minor pitfalls. Still, let's look at Replicate Magic Item.
None of that strikes me as being terrible. And the artificer is still supposed to get loot, just like everyon else, so they shouldn't be entirely reliant on their own ability to make magic items. They're build to be at capacity for stingy game tables, but that's a worst-case scenario. Yes, they might create and attune to magic items on the fly. But their real strength is having the flexibility to change up to two of these replicated items per day.
And if, as a DM, you don't want your artificer to have access to a list of all magic items in the DMG and elsewhere, that's fine. They can just learn to replicate whatever the party finds. For those of you so interested in balance, you should also know it's not one-and-done. Balance is a process that continues even after books are published. Just as characters grow stronger, players grow smarter. The relative strength of a magic item can change depending on who is wielding it, what they're wielding it against, and the environment it is being wielded in.
Between the people complaining that more magic items are being added to the game and the people who are complaing they don't know company trade secrets, I have no idea what will make you all happy. But I am at the end of my rope, as to what else I can say that might be remotely helpful, so I'm unsubscribing from this thread. Good luck to y'all.
Who would have thought being repeatedly told "ya'll don't know what you're talking about" then when someone states "We'd love to understand, but WoTC hasn't made that information clear" and then claiming we're complaining about not knowing 'trade secrets' would be construed as unhelpful?
Yes, how dare we not know the things we're not entitled to know? And how dare we, in our ignorance attempt to discuss things anyway?
Being berated for ignorance while not offered a pathway out of ignorance isn't helpful in any context. Or if it is, I've never seen it be. I blame my ignorance.
Aaaanyhow:
Not having to carry some things is a benefit of Magical Tinkering (both versions). Similar to how the Light cantrip means you don't have to carry a torch. It's also a benefit that's made pointless in a game that doesn't care about encumbrance, which seems to be the way the PHB implies things going most of the time. Granted, carrying a lot of adventuring gear in a bag is one of the things that encumbrance rules were made for. So mileage may vary depending on DM.
It's also not a very exciting benefit, nor one that feels all that magical. The prior version of Magical Tinkering served as a fun inspiration for finding things the Artificer could uniquely do. The UA Magical Tinkering is less so, since it's primary benefit is "having the equipment" and literally anyone can "have equipment." Few creatures can record 6 seconds of audio to be played back later.
Being able to have the equipment at a moments notice certainly encourages the use of said equipment and comes in handy if the party is ever imprisoned (but bizarrely still has access to Tinker's Tools for some reason) but that strikes me as rare.
But if I could conjure a rope and use it in the same action? That'd be neat, and quite valuable.
Like if I could conjure a rope already tied to a doorknob and then pull the door shut, I'd basically be recreating the "slam doors shut" ability of Thamaturgy but with a style and flair appropriate for the Artificer.
Or if I could conjure a sheet of paper already written on I could recreate one of the potential uses of the Old Magical Tinkering, instead of having to dedicate an action to materialize the paper and maybe a minute of hasty scribbling. etc.
Replicate Magic Item creates a mundane item, for just 1h. This makes a lot of those items useless. The Containers dont have much use for 1h. The Bedroll cant even be used to sleep through the night Parchment and Paper cant be used to write on.
Not only that, you can buy everything on that list for like 15gp. You can start with all of those items.
A Bag of Holding isnt even needed for most of them, with exception of the Pole or Shovel, you could fit everything into a Backpack and Bags. If im not wrong, all of those Items weigh slightly above 70lb. 30 of them into the Backpack, 30 into the Sack, 6 into the Pouch, and the remaining 4 you can carry somewhere else.
So no, this feature is not invalidated by Bag of Holding. It is invalidated at character creation.
Meanwhile, other characters get things like Unarmored Defense, Fighting Styles, Weapon Mastery, Spell-Like Abilities...and Artificer basically gets an additional 15 starting gold for a few additional bags filled with junk?
Well...personally i would like to keep my old version of it then...best case would be a merge of both, with the new "illusion items" using the old spark system, so you could have up to 5 semi-permanent items active. If an item like ball-bearing is created, use the spell-dc instead and allow it to be used with the same action that created it.
Also, you forget that the new 2024 rules are highly dependent on "downtime activities". The Artificer reflects that well due to the crafting advantages. You are supposed to craft things. thats the primary use of tools now. the Xanathar skill checks are gone or extremely limited.
The crafting further invalidates the Replicate Magic Item feature.
Most Items you dont have to learn at all. Bag of Holding? Sure you could get it for free without spending time, you could also spend just 200g and 10 days to get it.
The Treasure Tables are now less random, there is no more copper in there, instead the minimum you can find is set to gold. On average it is roughly the same as 2014, but with less extremes. It also suggests one treasure hoard per session. So, you have more gold now, but also more gold sinks.
And i dont even need to wait to have a high enough level to learn a plan. Want a Flame Tongue? Go Battlesmith. 25 days and 2000g and its yours. No need to wait until level 14. Get an assistant too, so you can create it in even less time. I never figured out if a homunculus is a valid assistant...
There are no crafting checks or level requirements. Just roll to see if you can buy the materials.
"Free Items on demand" isnt a good feature. Artificer Infusions were good because they were able to do things that items could not do. You could turn a mundane weapon into a magical one on demand. Found a nice new Longsword? Neat, its a +1 when i wake up. Found a Flail that you like better? Neat, now this is my +1 Weapon.
With the new system it could be argued that you have to set the weapon type when learning the plan, because each +1 weapon is its own variant. So no more flexibility for you, you are stuck with that +1 shortsword until you level up.
If you could learn additional plans, like wizard can learn spells, that would be neat, but also situational. Find a good Dagger that the Rogue wants to use, but you want it too? Doesnt matter, analyze it, replicate it, now you both have one.
Another nice thing would be, if "infusions" were no longer restricted to resting. Fight a creature with resistances and no one can harm it? Create a silvered weapon mid combat.
But having an additional 6 items that you can choose? yeah thats not good. Not when you consider that you are supposed to find 100 magic items during your leveling phase...so the only case where this would be beneficial would be, when the DM purely rolls random and you never get anything of use, and you are not allowed to craft or buy items. And lets not forget, you can find rare items at level 1, very rare at level 5. With the 2024 table, there is a 9% chance to find a rare item at level 1, and a level 1 hoard contains up to 3 magic items. so, you could find a Rare Weapon in your first Treasure Hoard...
3.x sets precedence that has carried forward to current edition. 5e was created after the backlash from 4e and moved the design back towards 3.5. There are definite patterns that are present in both. If you are going to ignore them, don't bemoan ignorance of the design process and don't try to force it on others.
If you can't be bothered to read the comments by your own admission, then how do you expect to respond to them appropriately? What are you going to do with the items from Magical Tinkering when they last for an hour? What are you going to do with Artisan Tools when can summon them for an hour? Some items have value, like Ball Bearings or Caltrops, but others are pretty pointless. However, being able to summon these 3-5 times per long rest is terrible. If they lasted longer, or if the uses refreshed on a short rest, or if you had more uses, it would be less of an issue, but it would still be bad and continue to contribute to the Artificer feeling like a trinket summoner and not a crafting class.
Magical Tinkering isn't made obsolete by replicating a Bag of Holding. It's made obsolete by access to a merchant. A Bag of Holding, found or replicated, just adds insult to injury.
At best, an Artificer gets 2 more plans known than they can have actively replicated. Combined with the restriction against duplicating replicated items, that significantly hinders the ability to be adapt day to day. Pre-UA had 4 additional plans known. Having a repertoire of 12 plans that you could switch between would significantly help the artificer's versatility without significantly affecting their power.
The Artificer's class features, including Replicate Magic Item, should stand up to other class's features and be different, but reasonably within the same power level for a given level. They should not be compared against the loot by level tables. The magic items they replicate or infuse should be their forms of buffing the party or themselves.
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Small correction there:
Since the new RMI conjures a full item, and the only exception at level 2 is "no scroll, potion, or cursed", it means you can conjure the cosmetic armors.
Armor of Gleaming, Smoldering Armor, Cast-Off Armor. So you could maximise the AC you can get from Armor that you can wear, you no longer need to find one to infuse it (personally i dont like this).
So you could conjure a Cast-Off Half Plate 15-17 AC, a +1 Shield, and you would have up to 20 AC too without having to find or buy that armor.
BUT: Wearing a shield would prevent them from casting, since with the UA they are no longer considered a focus.
At level 3 the Armorer can just conjure a Cast-Off Full Plate for 18 AC, together with the Shield they too would reach 21. At level 6 they could get 22 by conjuring a +1 Full Plate.
Well, now that the UA for Forgotten Realms is up, i have to say again that Battlesmith needs something more...
Bladesinger Wizard has Melee-Weapon as Focus, Cantrip-Extra-Attacks and now even Spell-Extra-Attacks, and they can now use Int for attacks.
This means they have better, stronger, and more spells, faster spell progression, access to rituals without preparing them, the ability to use both hands for martial stuff, and a way to use magic and attacks in the same turn.
So yeah...the minimum should be the same Spell and Attack feature being added to Smith and Armorer.
I did forget about those because I was looking for putting a bonus on the armor itself. I don't know what Jounichi1983's method was to get to AC 21 at level 2, but I can't find a way without conjuring full plate, but since the Artificer isn't proficient in Heavy Armor, they won't be able to cast spells.
I'm really hoping that they intended for the Replicate Magic Item to continue to act as a focus and it just was forgotten when breaking it out of Tools Required and rewriting Infusions into item summoning.
As I predicted, Bladesinger doesn't get Weapon Mastery. However, it reinforces my thought that if they bumped back the level 5 subclass feature to level 6, maybe Battle Smiths could get an extra attack feature like College of Valor, Eldritch Knight, and now Bladesingers.
As an Armorer, I think that would suit (no pun intended) the Battle Smith more than the Armorer.
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Warforged with their +1 to AC would be able to reach 21. Not sure if other species have something like that. But other than that, i cant find a way either.
Cantrip-Extra Attack would suit Battlesmith really well. Due to cantrip scaling, it would be a nice damage boost, so the mastery-discussion can end there.
In case the Replicate Magic Item gets scrapped again, maybe it could be fun to have an Infusion which grants Mastery. And even if not, more infusions to choose from would be fun.
If we get infusions back, my wishlist would be:
- Apply infusions to magic items with the exception that you cant apply two attunement-requirements.
This would help with scaling and prevent locking the artificer to mundane items. They would be able to find or craft magic gear and further improve it.
At level 10 or 14 it could allow up to two infusions on one item when used by the artificer. That way their gear can compete with all the other powerful class abilities.
- Change infusions on the fly without the restriction of a long-rest.
This would give them a more gadgety-feel where they can adjust to situation on the fly.
At level 6, this could then be enhance with the ability to "drain an infusion and apply a new one".
So, i ve seen people say they need infusions, but im not sure thats not the intent of a weapon+1 plan.
looking at crafting rules, items that incorporate other items can either be crafted from scratch, or created with pre existing items.
you see this in the incorporating other items crafting.
you can make a gleaming scale mail. + 1 with an armor +1 recipe. you merely have to pay for or provide the gleaming scale mail.
now, i dont thinkmagic replication is supposed to provide less functionality than crafting
so i would think the weapon +1 magic plan could also be used to enhance an existing item.
now its possible this is meant to be unique to crafting, but i dont see why it would, especially since they directly say in this UA the +1 infusions are meant to be replaced by the weapon armor and shield +1 2 replications.
I considered Warforged, but applying +1 AC as a Warforged Artificer without doing the same as a Warforged Paladin seemed disingenuous.
I was thinking the ability to replace or create a replicated magic item/Infused item X times per long rest would be really nice and lean into the magic item portion of the class. I think I would rather have that than destroy a replicated item for a spell slot.
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I like the infusion mechanic better solely because when crafting a magic item, you craft/acquire the base item then enchant it. Taking an existing item and enchanting it with temporary magic feels more like rapid magic item crafting than *poof* I have a suit of magic full plate. It's a crafting class, not a summoning one.
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Yup, my reason for that is a simple "Artificer isnt a major spellcaster".
If the feature would say "you can drain an item to cast a spell, even if it is not prepared, up to 2nd level", then neat, thats something that i would use sometimes.
But just recovering a spell slot has the requirement that i have the needed spell prepared. And most of the time, if im in a situation where i sacrifice my items to cast an "oh frick spell", then thats a scenario where i dont have that spell prepared.
Infusions or RMI is their major class feature, not spellcasting. So enhance that first, spells second
And there we are at the unknown variable again. At which point does an item flip rarity? With crafting, you get the first, enhance it with the second. Easy to understand that. But you dont have a way to determine the rarity of the final result then. For example, a +1 Weapon is Uncommon. a +1 Repeating is Uncommon too, even though it has two effects. What if i add one to another? Is my result a +2 Repeating then and it becomes a Rare simply because thats where +2 is located, and Repeating doesnt have a value on its own?
With my idea for Infused Magic Items, thats exactly what would happen. Find a +1 Crossbow? Nice, now you can make it a +2 Repeating by adding the Infusion, but you cant apply a +2 Repeating too a mundane weapon, because it doesnt exist.
With pure RMI where the item is conjured, thats where this system becomes weird. You learn items, not enchantments, so this combined item is now one learned plan.
With an infusion based system, this would allow flexibility. Adjust your item to the encounter as needed.
my interpretation is that if the magic item incorporates an item, with magic replication, you can either craft it whole cloth, or upgrade an existing item, since thats the rules for crafting magic items.
perhaps its not the case with replication, but certain magic items are templates, and are meant to be applied to whatever item, like you are supposed to be able to find/craft a mistral+1 armor. i dont see why magic replication would be unable to replicate such an item.
flavorwise. i prefered some sort of time dialation, but infusion wasnt great for me because it limited you, and it also felt more like poof magic rather than magical science. That said, requiring tons of time crafting is not workable in normal games, so whatever solution would have to be somewhat magical/fast.
for now, i think of the creation effect essentially like them designing the object with their minds and using magic to make it physical/build it. So to me its like a super fast 3d printer, or CNC machine, and the artificer is like the engineer making the CAD design, or programing the 3d printer/cnc machine. It also makes sense to me they use magic to create temporary items or prototypes, but if they want it to be permanent they take that experience and make it with real objects/processes.
Summoning to me seems like bringing something from somwhere else.
Many items, including the items replicated by Replicate Magic Item are indeed templates. You learn the plan for +1 Weapon, not +1 Scimitar. By RAW, Replicate Magic Item could create Mithral or Admantine weapons and armor if chose the appropriate plan.
No, if you are going to require significant time, it would probably be better to just craft it. However, enchanting an existing item during a long rest would feel between an expedited crafting and a long duration buff.
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