So since the playtest Ive been running solo tests with a party of each sub class. I also tested most of the UAs for the 2024 classes, and ran the phb versions of about half the classes, so i think i have a pretty good pool of comparison
i tested:
alchemist/monk1
artillerist
armorer
battlesmith/fighter1
the alchemist was +1 level for half the fights
most of my tests would be represented by high difficulty
1-4
the artificer is pretty much below average from 1-2. almost every other class has very strong features in the first two levels, artificer doesnt. They can get competive AC with defense focused fighter, or they can get a damage boost to 1-2 weapons/spell attacks. Their spell list is fairly middle of the road. you should probably take true strike or a blade cantrip. They dont
3-4
alch: gets their gimmick, 2 potions, support wise they are inferior to a cleric cleric will have 4 lvl 1 and 2-3 lvl 2 spells, the alch will have 2 lvl 1s, and 2 level one like potions, so 2 level 2 spells behind, and replication doesnt compete with divine order, chanel divinity an extra cantrip and a better spell list. on the plus side, you can cast and apply potions on the same turn, so you can support spike slightly harder, but then your pretty lack luster for the rest of the day. My version was /monk, so always had possibility of BA unarmed strike this made them less wack, but its clearly not able to really do much at this range.
armorer, they get armor, and you can build for unusual AC for this level. but this is only really +1 AC over not being an armorer, and the weapons arent that great. the infiltrator armoer gives you a ranged 2d6, which is unique, but, with a high AC charachter not highly needed (thrown is confusing here) stealth advantage and extra movement is nice, but wont come up often in combat. It seems to be suggesting a ranged keep away playstyle, but very little gained from heavy armor then.
dreadnaught, you get a polearm's reach and damage dice, with a push/pull type mastery, but only when you enlarge usually, if you arent doing a lot of sepeate combats per day this might be every fight, but its not really better than a fighter at this type of gameplay. There is some synergy with polearm mastery and pulling people to hit reaction attacks, but that would mean points into str or dex when you are more concerned with int or con, and you dont have int mod on martial weapons so this would need strength investment or ogre guantlets. You get slightly better control here, but your reach works against you a bit here, enemies wilk have 15 feet of free movement around you before you trugger op attacks
guardian, seems to be built to grapple tank, and its the only sub armor that reliably gives you the debuff to make use of your tankyness, but to grapple you need a strong strength invesment, unless you have ogre guantlets, you probably dont want to main strngth. You also cant easily force prone, or other means of giving their attacks disadvantage.
you really arent comparing favorably to a paladin fighter, barbarian here.
Battlesmith, my battlesmith started of fighter, so they had fun with mastery, artifucer has decent movemnt spells, this was fun, the steel defender gives an option for defense, or a decent damage BA attack. this one didnt feel like you were totally under performing, but they are behind in progression to get that.
aartillerist gets eldritch cannon, which improves its no spell damage noticeably. they can essentially attack twice per turn. However, you only get 1 free casting, which lasts one hour, and you only have 2-3 spellslots. For someone with so few slots, it basically means you wont cast many spells. feels a bit off. But while you have eldritch cannon, you feel like a decent blaster. Basically feels like a big drop off
Overall the artifcer feels like a bit of a pretender in these levels, most of them arent doing anything another class cant do better, and they are not super versatile at this level either.
they also had a tougher time with these levels than the other 2024 classes i tested. Hiwever it was still doable, i doubt they will die, but they will probably be jealous of other classes, if they are the type to compare themselves.
tye big change is homunculus, and subclass features.and class spells, and cantrips upgrade.
if you have found, or crafted useful items you can equip the homunculus, but even if you cant, they add a bit of dmg and utility.
battlesmith/armorer gets extra attack, and this allows them to be decent without spells, they also get class spells that are decent.
artillerist now can blast pretty hard with an increase to spells cast with firearm, and an extra attacker.
alchemist, hets a lil damage boost, but is still subpar at support/defense/offense. I had fun trying to build out the charachter concept, the gambking on potion miscibility adds entertainment, but baseline, they are not really special yet.
level 6 is a big deal, uncommon replications, and 3 total. Enspelled items drastically increases versatility, and some of these concepts start to gel better with a homunculus supporting with an appropriate spell, or the artificer getting access to a needed spell. Armorers with shield spell armor/hunters mark, alchemist with faerie fire homunculus, artillerist with magic missle/witchbolt homunculus. enlarge/smiting battlsemiths etc. They start making real decisions and have many options.
7-8 no major changes.
after this point i think artificers are ok, though i havent tested them yet in t3 to t4 but they appear to be getting decent power ups and have a nice base to work off of. at 6+ they seemed to be competitive with other classes,but had their own playstyles and strengths.
Have you revisited the class, particularly the Battle Master, with the new iteration of the class?(
i was pondering trying to test a cartographer, but i'm not sure if they should be tested with other artificers. Since their base abilities are low,(dont get great use from most items) they probably work better with people who dont naturally have the same access to magic items.
if you meant battlesmith, I think getting repeating shot and returning weapon earlier opens up some options, and i wished i could use wraps.before.
losing javelin of lightning sucks, it kinda made sense with battlesmiths lightning theme. Enspelled armor loss is pretty lame, but they do get shield.
i think armorer missing out on mithral armor is lame, especially for infiltrator armorer types. And they needed the enspelled more since shield wasnt on their natural list.
that said, if your campaign has crafting, and enough downtime to do it, you can make uncommon items in a somewhat timely fashion, which mitigates some of these issues.
specifically, my armorer, alchemist, and artillerist would be weaker under the new rules. The alchemist and armorer were leaning into the lowbie expanded enspelled spell list. but more than just power level, it really felt fun to be able to get creative and have many options at 6. felt more like the injenuity i think is at the core of the artificer fantasy.
one thing i will say though, you really have to dig into the books to get that value, looking up many things.The more curated list puts more things in front of your face and be more approachable, that said, id prefer more freedom/versatility
Replicated weapons (and wands) can now be used as artificer foci, which fixes the big hole the new version created in Battlesmith.
ah, to be honest i didnt cast a lot on battlesmith mid battle, and swap rules/one handing while casting covered those situations.
the most glaring issue would probably be shield, though you can end turns with a foci and weapon, but its just tedious for no good reason, so imglad its somewhat fixed.
though what if the items arent replicated, but crafted/found? bleh
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So since the playtest Ive been running solo tests with a party of each sub class. I also tested most of the UAs for the 2024 classes, and ran the phb versions of about half the classes, so i think i have a pretty good pool of comparison
i tested:
alchemist/monk1
artillerist
armorer
battlesmith/fighter1
the alchemist was +1 level for half the fights
most of my tests would be represented by high difficulty
1-4
the artificer is pretty much below average from 1-2. almost every other class has very strong features in the first two levels, artificer doesnt. They can get competive AC with defense focused fighter, or they can get a damage boost to 1-2 weapons/spell attacks. Their spell list is fairly middle of the road. you should probably take true strike or a blade cantrip. They dont
3-4
alch: gets their gimmick, 2 potions, support wise they are inferior to a cleric cleric will have 4 lvl 1 and 2-3 lvl 2 spells, the alch will have 2 lvl 1s, and 2 level one like potions, so 2 level 2 spells behind, and replication doesnt compete with divine order, chanel divinity an extra cantrip and a better spell list. on the plus side, you can cast and apply potions on the same turn, so you can support spike slightly harder, but then your pretty lack luster for the rest of the day. My version was /monk, so always had possibility of BA unarmed strike this made them less wack, but its clearly not able to really do much at this range.
armorer, they get armor, and you can build for unusual AC for this level. but this is only really +1 AC over not being an armorer, and the weapons arent that great. the infiltrator armoer gives you a ranged 2d6, which is unique, but, with a high AC charachter not highly needed (thrown is confusing here) stealth advantage and extra movement is nice, but wont come up often in combat. It seems to be suggesting a ranged keep away playstyle, but very little gained from heavy armor then.
dreadnaught, you get a polearm's reach and damage dice, with a push/pull type mastery, but only when you enlarge usually, if you arent doing a lot of sepeate combats per day this might be every fight, but its not really better than a fighter at this type of gameplay. There is some synergy with polearm mastery and pulling people to hit reaction attacks, but that would mean points into str or dex when you are more concerned with int or con, and you dont have int mod on martial weapons so this would need strength investment or ogre guantlets. You get slightly better control here, but your reach works against you a bit here, enemies wilk have 15 feet of free movement around you before you trugger op attacks
guardian, seems to be built to grapple tank, and its the only sub armor that reliably gives you the debuff to make use of your tankyness, but to grapple you need a strong strength invesment, unless you have ogre guantlets, you probably dont want to main strngth. You also cant easily force prone, or other means of giving their attacks disadvantage.
you really arent comparing favorably to a paladin fighter, barbarian here.
Battlesmith, my battlesmith started of fighter, so they had fun with mastery, artifucer has decent movemnt spells, this was fun, the steel defender gives an option for defense, or a decent damage BA attack. this one didnt feel like you were totally under performing, but they are behind in progression to get that.
aartillerist gets eldritch cannon, which improves its no spell damage noticeably. they can essentially attack twice per turn. However, you only get 1 free casting, which lasts one hour, and you only have 2-3 spellslots. For someone with so few slots, it basically means you wont cast many spells. feels a bit off. But while you have eldritch cannon, you feel like a decent blaster. Basically feels like a big drop off
Overall the artifcer feels like a bit of a pretender in these levels, most of them arent doing anything another class cant do better, and they are not super versatile at this level either.
they also had a tougher time with these levels than the other 2024 classes i tested. Hiwever it was still doable, i doubt they will die, but they will probably be jealous of other classes, if they are the type to compare themselves.
5-8ish
things start to look up at five
tye big change is homunculus, and subclass features.and class spells, and cantrips upgrade.
if you have found, or crafted useful items you can equip the homunculus, but even if you cant, they add a bit of dmg and utility.
battlesmith/armorer gets extra attack, and this allows them to be decent without spells, they also get class spells that are decent.
artillerist now can blast pretty hard with an increase to spells cast with firearm, and an extra attacker.
alchemist, hets a lil damage boost, but is still subpar at support/defense/offense. I had fun trying to build out the charachter concept, the gambking on potion miscibility adds entertainment, but baseline, they are not really special yet.
level 6 is a big deal, uncommon replications, and 3 total. Enspelled items drastically increases versatility, and some of these concepts start to gel better with a homunculus supporting with an appropriate spell, or the artificer getting access to a needed spell. Armorers with shield spell armor/hunters mark, alchemist with faerie fire homunculus, artillerist with magic missle/witchbolt homunculus. enlarge/smiting battlsemiths etc. They start making real decisions and have many options.
7-8 no major changes.
after this point i think artificers are ok, though i havent tested them yet in t3 to t4 but they appear to be getting decent power ups and have a nice base to work off of. at 6+ they seemed to be competitive with other classes,but had their own playstyles and strengths.
if i test more, ill update the thread
Have you revisited the class, particularly the Battle Master, with the new iteration of the class?
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i was pondering trying to test a cartographer, but i'm not sure if they should be tested with other artificers. Since their base abilities are low,(dont get great use from most items) they probably work better with people who dont naturally have the same access to magic items.
if you meant battlesmith, I think getting repeating shot and returning weapon earlier opens up some options, and i wished i could use wraps.before.
losing javelin of lightning sucks, it kinda made sense with battlesmiths lightning theme. Enspelled armor loss is pretty lame, but they do get shield.
i think armorer missing out on mithral armor is lame, especially for infiltrator armorer types. And they needed the enspelled more since shield wasnt on their natural list.
that said, if your campaign has crafting, and enough downtime to do it, you can make uncommon items in a somewhat timely fashion, which mitigates some of these issues.
specifically, my armorer, alchemist, and artillerist would be weaker under the new rules. The alchemist and armorer were leaning into the lowbie expanded enspelled spell list. but more than just power level, it really felt fun to be able to get creative and have many options at 6. felt more like the injenuity i think is at the core of the artificer fantasy.
one thing i will say though, you really have to dig into the books to get that value, looking up many things.The more curated list puts more things in front of your face and be more approachable, that said, id prefer more freedom/versatility
Replicated weapons (and wands) can now be used as artificer foci, which fixes the big hole the new version created in Battlesmith.
ah, to be honest i didnt cast a lot on battlesmith mid battle, and swap rules/one handing while casting covered those situations.
the most glaring issue would probably be shield, though you can end turns with a foci and weapon, but its just tedious for no good reason, so imglad its somewhat fixed.
though what if the items arent replicated, but crafted/found? bleh