You can’t frontline without STR and AC — you’ll get shut down fast.
You keep saying you’ve tested, but your tests don’t cover every scenario. It feels like you just roll dice and ignore complex, dynamic situations, focusing only on straightforward, linear ones.
In a single round, I could easily grapple or knock you prone. You’d lose concentration, and by the second turn, you’d be gone.
Even back in the 2014 version, I would always switch to a shield and play defensively to survive when fighting alongside a front-line Fighter.
the UA hexblade as compared to other subclasses provides.
more ability to frontline (accursed shield + armor of hexes, unyielding will) (only fiend comes close, but by level 10 resistance to one damage type per SR isnt going to be more than -10 damage taken per round, and unyielding will allows you to maintain concentration when unlucky while giving temp Hp.
more damage while frontlining, (unyielding will crits on 19)
better ability to debuff a target:( hindering curse)
damage even while casting with an action (harrowing hex)
excelent ability to stay close, (inescapable hex) that requires no reaction/action or spell cost.
and a bunch of spells that arent normally on the warlock list that work well with this type of play: (every spell except hex, is a new spell to the warlock list)
for a martial leaning charachter, the other subclasses are not ideal.
The big factor is that martial charachters want spells that still allow them to use attack actions, and capitilize off their martial attacks, and damage buffs. so the hexblade spell list, which is almost all non action using casting, other than conjure barrage which is worth giving up attack actions with enough enemies, steel wind strike, which is also worth it with multiple enemies and synergizes with on hit damage buffs, like hex/bestow/shroud. Is kind of a big deal, along with harrowing hex which allows you a no cost BA attack when you cast spells.
unyielding will, which can save concentration, provide temp HP and deals damage to targets in melee range with you with no action cost is also hard to match for a martial build.
As far as multiclassing, you arent better than a pure hexblade because every level is a big deal until like level 14. your pld dip gives you +5% defense (only sometimes) divine favor, 2 masteries, and 2 spell slots. but thats not really objectively better than;
level 11, 3 spells per SR (and 2 spells with magical cunning) level 6 spells,
level 12 ASI invocation
level 13 level 7 spells
level 14, 19 crit, aoe damage and debuff in melee, but most importantly, one hexblades curse per SR
level 15 level 8 spells invocation
level 16, asi
I tested hexblades side by side, two with dips, and 2 without. the dipping classes had nice things, like mastery, free con proficiency, second wind, But the pure hexblade gets a huge boost from spell level. there is a huge difference between 5 level 1 spells, and 5 level 2 spells, and 5 level 3 spells in terms of power. And the other levels have milestones which add a lot, like invocations, ability scores, or feats. They werent objectively weaker than pure warlock, but they werent objectively better either.
perhaps level 2. thats about it.
id also say, for martial leaning charachters, while 15-16 provides big power, it might nit be the type of power you want, but level 17 is huge (foresight and 4 spells per SR)
Accursed shield is a bad fix for AC. +2 is bad enough also a value but you also have two restrictions in top of it being a poor defensive buff: have to be within 10ft of a specific target and only works while not wearing armor which means it forces you to take armor of shadows which is a bad invocation which you don't want anyway. Armor of hexes is also a poor feature especially at level 10: reducing 10 dmg from one attack coming from a specific target as a reaction (meaning only once per turn at a stage of the game where enemies are attacking multiple times) is nothing to write home about.
crit on a 19 comes in way too late, it should be part of the basic hexbaldes curse.
unyielding will is a nice feature but its only one use per long rest which is too few. It should refresh on a short rest.
hindering curse only works for you allies except for in some very niche cases so its dependent on your team and does not grant you any personal benefits.
harrowing hex is not that great on a class that only has 2 spell slot for moat of its career and using those spell slots to sometimes cast bonus action spells such as spirit shroud or animate objects (takes action to casts and bonus action to command) so realistically you aren’t getting much use out of it if any.
inescapable hex is not terrible but it triggers attacks of opportunity so in certain cases it might be unusable or too risky to use with your poor AC which the subclass itself does not fix.
new spells: thats what the expanded spell list exists for. Its not really something out of the ordinary and the spell list itself is good, not fantastic but with that said, the spell list is probably the best and most exciting feature in the entire subclass which is not ideal to say the least.
other subclasses might not be ideal, but neither is this, it does not fix the glaring survivability issue since the defensive features are a hindrance to use and even then are poor in what the actually give and if you want to be in melee your still better off multiclassing and at that point any other subclass is better than this.
the dmg on unyielding will is negligible at level 3 and since it does not scale, it becomes useless very fast. And as I already said unyielding will is decent but only 1 use is too few and yeah the spell list is great and fun but not worth taking the subclass for it because the rest of the features are simply bad.
the level 14 feature is also laughable 3D6 dmg once per long rest and two minor features which should be part of the base hexblades curse.
multiclassing is definitely better and again if im multiclassing im dropping hexblade all together since the other subclasses grant better benefits at less of a cost. Im not sure where you are getting the 5 spells from since you only have 2 spell slots, but even so, I would rather push my features a level back bit have armor prof on top of con saves, masteries and fighting styles. With a pure hexblade you still get like a 17 AC but only if you invest in armor of shadows and be within 10 of your curse target. While I can where halfplate and take defense and be at 18 AC all the time not to mention if I get magical armor I can wear it while with the pure hexblade you are stuck without armor or have to give up 50% of your hexbaldes curse benefits.
No matter how you spin it the UA hexblade is poorly designed, there is no feature which feels remotely good to use or powerful enough compared to what you can get from other subclasses. It does not fix any of the issues bladelocks have (it tries to, but it fails to do so because the features are weak), non of the damaging features scale so they start feeling weak almost immediately and the few features you have that are not tied to the curse target are either weak/difficult to use or limited in use (unyielding will). This version is uninspired and unfortunately it shows that it had been designed by people who dont get what the hexblade is supposed to be mechanically. Its trying too hard to not be the PotB subclass while still trying to weave in some features which encourage melee weapon fighting and it juts ends up failing on all fronts.
the hexbalde needs to do 4 things:
- give warlocks good AC and defensive options that can be easily accessed and maintained so it can reliably exist in melee, either through armor and shield profs or some sort of bonus that scales with their CHA ( they gave it to draconic sorcs, genie palys and bladesinger wizards I dont see why they shouldnt give it to the frontline warlock subclass).
- restore hexbaldes curse to be as close to the original as possible meaning improved crit, healing on kill and se sort kf a dmg boost.
- have features which combine sword and sorcery like they gave other gish subclasses and lean more into the melee weapon fighting power fantasy without being afraid it will end up the default PotB pick, it is supposed to be.
- lastly it should not be fully dependent on the hexblades curse. Its ok to have some features which work on the cursed target but it needs to have features which can also stand on their own. Being able to function only against one target is neither fun nor satisfying to play ( something which the original hexblade suffered from but hex warrior and hexblades curse where powerful enough to make this issue be negligible).
You can’t frontline without STR and AC — you’ll get shut down fast.
You keep saying you’ve tested, but your tests don’t cover every scenario. It feels like you just roll dice and ignore complex, dynamic situations, focusing only on straightforward, linear ones.
In a single round, I could easily grapple or knock you prone. You’d lose concentration, and by the second turn, you’d be gone.
Even back in the 2014 version, I would always switch to a shield and play defensively to survive when fighting alongside a front-line Fighter.
Now imagine doing all that without AC…
Agreed. Except you don’t necessarily need STR. With 14 DEX you can wear a half plate which is only 1 AC short of a fullplate.
The reason I keep saying I would prefer a feature which boosts your AC that scales with CHA is because it would allow the warlock to go pure hexblade and not feel bad about its defences. If it was something like add CHA modifier to AC while not wearing armor I would be happy to take armor of shadows, but for a measly +2 im just gonna start fighter and not even bother trying.
Giving hexblades unarmored AC of 10+DEX+CHA is the only alternative to armor proficiency that seems worthwhile to me. Yes, it is recycling something that already exists, but the alternatives are just not good enough. Even if the bonus was bigger, the one from the latest UA still sucks, as all it takes for you to lose it is for the target to move away (or die?). I think any solution where you can easily lose you AC boost outside of your turn is just bad.
You can’t frontline without STR and AC — you’ll get shut down fast.
You keep saying you’ve tested, but your tests don’t cover every scenario. It feels like you just roll dice and ignore complex, dynamic situations, focusing only on straightforward, linear ones.
In a single round, I could easily grapple or knock you prone. You’d lose concentration, and by the second turn, you’d be gone.
Even back in the 2014 version, I would always switch to a shield and play defensively to survive when fighting alongside a front-line Fighter.
Now imagine doing all that without AC…
Agreed. Except you don’t necessarily need STR. With 14 DEX you can wear a half plate which is only 1 AC short of a fullplate.
The reason I keep saying I would prefer a feature which boosts your AC that scales with CHA is because it would allow the warlock to go pure hexblade and not feel bad about its defences. If it was something like add CHA modifier to AC while not wearing armor I would be happy to take armor of shadows, but for a measly +2 im just gonna start fighter and not even bother trying.
In melee with Medium Armor and a 14 DEX and dumping STR, you will be vulnerable to grapples. Assuming multiple enemies, advantage on attacks against you would roughly reduce your AC by 4 (I think the actual number is closer to 3.8). If you are relying on DEX for AC, you'll probably make a DEX Save to break out of it. If you are using STR for attacks, you will probably use a STR Save. If you're Dumping STR, putting a minor investment into DEX, and focusing on CHA, you'll be vulnerable against Grapples and maybe other attacks. This doesn't apply to the Bladesinger because they are going to be investing in DEX and INT for AC and it feels like WotC was trying to make a Bladesinger Warlock instead of a Hexblade one.
You can’t frontline without STR and AC — you’ll get shut down fast.
You keep saying you’ve tested, but your tests don’t cover every scenario. It feels like you just roll dice and ignore complex, dynamic situations, focusing only on straightforward, linear ones.
In a single round, I could easily grapple or knock you prone. You’d lose concentration, and by the second turn, you’d be gone.
Even back in the 2014 version, I would always switch to a shield and play defensively to survive when fighting alongside a front-line Fighter.
Now imagine doing all that without the creatures who are meant to grapple do it with no saves.
first off, why would you assume the hexblade has no str, i just pointed out you can build a hexblade with strength.
furthermore, the 2014, or any UA of hexblade is just as likely to have strength.
2nd both grapple and shove can be avoided with either dex saves or strength saves in 2024, and escaped via acrobatics, or athletics.
3rd, creatures who are meant to grapple in 2024 have automatic grapple on hit. as you said, no save at all.
4rth if a creature grapples you, you either force movement, grapple, or you fight as usual, its extremely rare that its worth giving up an action to remove a grapple for a melee charachter. the melee charachter wants to be close to things to kill them. But regardless as shown above, no hexblade is any more likely to have strength than another, and dex is just as viable..
RE AC. where are you getting the idea that the new hexblade always has lower AC than medium armor? Hexblade can have 16 AC at level 1, and 18 AC by level 8. accursed shield only increases their AC past that. If you have lower AC than 16, its because you chose something else over having AC. Medium armor never had a chance of giving you 20 AC. or even 18AC.
I had a group of 4 hexblades, 2 with dips. the highest AC was the pure hexblade. the hexblade/fighter capped at 18, the hexblade/ranger had 17 without medium armor. There was even a hexblade with 15 base armor (14 dex 16 con) and he didnt have issues surviving, because warlock has temp HP and can get tough from. lessons. and has 17 AC around hexed targets.
you keep saying they need AC, they have the same AC as other. martials.
Re unarmored defense. with unarmored defense CHA DEX you get the same AC when near hexed target with armor of shadows. if you had 3 dex and 5 cha you would have 18 dex. (10+3+5) if you have 3 dex and armor of shadows you have 18 AC (13+3+2) while close to hexed targets.
and you can achieve 18 AC at level 3, while unarmored defense cant.achieve the same number until level 8 at absolute earliest. getting higher AC for either case would require more investment in dex.
the difference is it only works while you are meleeing a creature, which you have the tools to do, and the whole class design encourages.
and the main issue is running out of hexblades curse too fast, which is the real problem with the subclass (3-5 curses per day before 14 is questionable)
And to be honest even then the problem isnt survival, its just less entertaining to have none of the benefits of hexblades curse.
you keep mentioning having bad AC, but when is this? who has more than 18 AC at level 3 with hands free?
re hindering hex, the class has staggering strike built in. a 75% (assuming 50% normal) chance to stun a target until your next turn, and deal 4d6-5d6 damage in one hit (you choose the order of effects with the same trigger) which lasts until the end of your next round.
Also, the fact that teamates may get even more benefit from it is not a minus,
low level version is applying frightened(disadvantage on attacks, cant move closer to target, built in
harrowing hex is 1/3rd of the 6th level features, and it comes up more than enough to justify its existence. conjure barrage? add an attack, steel wind strike? add an attack. hypnotic pattern? add an attack. bestow curse? add an attack, mirror images? add an attack.freedom of movement? cloud of daggers, fear? banishment? and dealing a whole attacks worth of damage, potentially two times per SR, isnt generally considered a weak feature at 6.
they can also get weapon mastery via feat, or other means.
reducing damage by 10+ on the enemy you are meleeing, at level 10 is a big deal, the average damage around 10 is about 27 including AC reducing that to 17 is signifigant, and even barbarians in 2024, arent doing much better than that due more creatures dealing multiple damage types. Who do you think is doing better defensively? especially while dealing good damage and having access to level 5 spell solutions.
the hexblade group seriously was noticeably more survivable than other groups ive tested.
You can’t frontline without STR and AC — you’ll get shut down fast.
You keep saying you’ve tested, but your tests don’t cover every scenario. It feels like you just roll dice and ignore complex, dynamic situations, focusing only on straightforward, linear ones.
In a single round, I could easily grapple or knock you prone. You’d lose concentration, and by the second turn, you’d be gone.
Even back in the 2014 version, I would always switch to a shield and play defensively to survive when fighting alongside a front-line Fighter.
Now imagine doing all that without the creatures who are meant to grapple do it with no saves.
first off, why would you assume the hexblade has no str, i just pointed out you can build a hexblade with strength.
furthermore, the 2014, or any UA of hexblade is just as likely to have strength.
2nd both grapple and shove can be avoided with either dex saves or strength saves in 2024, and escaped via acrobatics, or athletics.
3rd, creatures who are meant to grapple in 2024 have automatic grapple on hit. as you said, no save at all.
4rth if a creature grapples you, you either force movement, grapple, or you fight as usual, its extremely rare that its worth giving up an action to remove a grapple for a melee charachter. the melee charachter wants to be close to things to kill them. But regardless as shown above, no hexblade is any more likely to have strength than another, and dex is just as viable..
RE AC. where are you getting the idea that the new hexblade always has lower AC than medium armor? Hexblade can have 16 AC at level 1, and 18 AC by level 8. accursed shield only increases their AC past that. If you have lower AC than 16, its because you chose something else over having AC. Medium armor never had a chance of giving you 20 AC. or even 18AC.
I had a group of 4 hexblades, 2 with dips. the highest AC was the pure hexblade. the hexblade/fighter capped at 18, the hexblade/ranger had 17 without medium armor. There was even a hexblade with 15 base armor (14 dex 16 con) and he didnt have issues surviving, because warlock has temp HP and can get tough from. lessons. and has 17 AC around hexed targets.
you keep saying they need AC, they have the same AC as other. martials.
Re unarmored defense. with unarmored defense CHA DEX you get the same AC when near hexed target with armor of shadows. if you had 3 dex and 5 cha you would have 18 dex. (10+3+5) if you have 3 dex and armor of shadows you have 18 AC (13+3+2) while close to hexed targets.
and you can achieve 18 AC at level 3, while unarmored defense cant.achieve the same number until level 8 at absolute earliest. getting higher AC for either case would require more investment in dex.
the difference is it only works while you are meleeing a creature, which you have the tools to do, and the whole class design encourages.
and the main issue is running out of hexblades curse too fast, which is the real problem with the subclass (3-5 curses per day before 14 is questionable)
And to be honest even then the problem isnt survival, its just less entertaining to have none of the benefits of hexblades curse.
you keep mentioning having bad AC, but when is this? who has more than 18 AC at level 3 with hands free?
re hindering hex, the class has staggering strike built in. a 75% (assuming 50% normal) chance to stun a target until your next turn, and deal 4d6-5d6 damage in one hit (you choose the order of effects with the same trigger) which lasts until the end of your next round.
Also, the fact that teamates may get even more benefit from it is not a minus,
low level version is applying frightened(disadvantage on attacks, cant move closer to target, built in
harrowing hex is 1/3rd of the 6th level features, and it comes up more than enough to justify its existence. conjure barrage? add an attack, steel wind strike? add an attack. hypnotic pattern? add an attack. bestow curse? add an attack, mirror images? add an attack.freedom of movement? cloud of daggers, fear? banishment? and dealing a whole attacks worth of damage, potentially two times per SR, isnt generally considered a weak feature at 6.
they can also get weapon mastery via feat, or other means.
reducing damage by 10+ on the enemy you are meleeing, at level 10 is a big deal, the average damage around 10 is about 27 including AC reducing that to 17 is signifigant, and even barbarians in 2024, arent doing much better than that due more creatures dealing multiple damage types. Who do you think is doing better defensively? especially while dealing good damage and having access to level 5 spell solutions.
the hexblade group seriously was noticeably more survivable than other groups ive tested.
The issue with Accursed shield is its condition. Its too easy to lose and a stupid hindrance to keep track off. Not to mention that it does not scale while armor can scale due to the potential magic items (+1/2/3 armor). And the fact that its tied to a feature which is very limited in use makes it even worse. The AC fix to a subclass which is looking to be on melee needs to be efficient and consistent, and Accursed shield is neither of those things. Unarmored defense would not be as great, I agree, thats why i mentioned a feature similar to the genie paladin/bladesinger which is a CHA based AC boost that stacks with light armor or no armor (assuming 14 DEX because it is not realistic to expect more from a build that requires CHA, CON, DEX and STR, you would get 12+2+CHA for an AC of 17-19 with studded leather which can increase of you find magical armor or 13+2+CHA with armor of shadows for an AC of 18-20 which might benefit from specific items such as bracers of defense). 15/16 AC is not an acceptable AC for a build which is looking to be in melee consistently.
I still disagree on Armor of hexes. The dmg mitigation value is poor considering it inly works on the hexblades curse target. You are never gonna be facing 1 enemy in melee and at this level 10 dmg reduced from 1 attack is pathetic. Personally I never liked armor of hexes the original one was very feast or famine while this one just has poor values. The feature at level 10 combined with the fact that the capstone is so lackluster does not deter me from multiclassing and getting goodies from other classes and that is poor design. These higher level feature should be the ones to get you excited about taking more levels in the class not deter you from doing so.
I can see the argument for hindering hex and harrowing hex. My issue with both features (which is my issue with almost all of the subclass) is how limited in use they are. Harrowing hex is limited by the number of spell slots which is only 2 and if assuming we might be using some of those slots for BA spells or the occasional smite the uses decrease even more to the point where its a feature that I am not that happy to have. Thats why I suggested it should be a free attack that you get to make as part of the same action as casting the spell so at least I can get to use it with the smite spells. This is supposed to be the warlocks version of improved extra attack they gave other gishes but it is not even close. Substituting an attack for a cantrip can be done every turn while this is not gonna be used most of the time. I would prefer to see this feature replaced entirely bit that might be just me.
hindering hex is fine but the fact that it works only on the hexblades curse target is another case of a feature being limited in use by multiple factors, but its decent enough.
Ignoring these hexblades curse is still to limited in the number of uses it has without being able to be moved around and the features it provides are just bad. Improved critical and extra dmg along with the healing should be what the curse does and the AC boost should be its own feature that is independent if the curse and always or at least mostly on.
The major issue is that all of the features are either ok or meh and that is not a subclass which is exciting to play. I believe that the hexblade still requires a lot of work and needs another round of UA testing and feedback from the community as the current version is miles from being good or fun enough to play. -hexblades curse needs to be a dmg booster at lvl 3 not a lackluster defensive tool and needs someway if having more uptime make it transferable somehow maybe at mater levels but nkt at level 14 which is too late
-the AC boost needs to be able to stand alone. Move it to unyielding will and remove the 2D6 dmg since its useless anyway and make it a scaling boost to AC. Or if they cant be bothered to design a satisfying AC feature just give back armor prof.
-harrowing hex needs to change somehow to either be more usable or to be more impactful when used (After casting a level 1+ spell as an action you can make 1 weapon attack as a bonus action m. This attack deals an additional D6 dmg for each level of the spell slot used.)
-Armor of hexes needs to either go or be a much better defensive boost (passive dmg reduction against all dmg from the cursed target, a reaction that completely nullifies a single attack or a passive dmg reduction while concentrating so its usable beyond the constraints of hexblades curse).
-the capstone needs to be revamped completely. The critical boost needs to go back to lvl3. The additional uses of hexblades curse needs to be a transfering mechanic like hex that comes in at lvl6 or at the latest 10 and exploding hex needs to be either changes completely or deal a lot more dmg (4D6 + warlock level, or 8D6 or something similar that is at least comparable to a fireball, 3D6 at level 14 is a joke.)
Here simple changes to the WoTc designed that wont appease hexblade OGs but at least make it playable.
- Hexblade’s Curse
return the old hexblades curse (prof bonus to dmg, improved crit and healing) but with CHA modifier uses and healing adjusted accordingly to D8+CHA.
- unyielding will
replace the exploding on successful con save with an AC boost (while wearing light armor or no armor and not wielding a shield, gain AC equal to CHA modifier. You might attach a condition to it to balance it out something like while concentrating on a spell or while there is any creature within 10 feet of you)
second part unchanged but refresh in a shirt rest.
- malign brutality
hindering hex: unchanged
harrowing hex: same + the BA attack from it deals additional dmg D6 for each level of the slot used to cast the spell.
inescapable hex: same but make it a teleport so its more flavorful and gets passes attack of opportunities and obstacles in the way.
persistent hex (new): when your curse target dies, you can use a BA on subsequent turns to transfer the curse without refreshing the duration.
- armor of hexes: you have resistance against all dmg dealt to you by your curse target.
- masterful hex
accursed critical: moved to lvl3
the regain uses of hexblades cursed replaced by persistent hex at lvl 6
exploding hex: same but dmg increased drastically (6D6, 8D6, scales with warlock level a lot of options)
accursed blade (new): your weapon attacks deal an additional D6 dmg on hit (a constant benefit detached from anything else so at least you have something permanent)
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You can’t frontline without STR and AC — you’ll get shut down fast.
You keep saying you’ve tested, but your tests don’t cover every scenario. It feels like you just roll dice and ignore complex, dynamic situations, focusing only on straightforward, linear ones.
In a single round, I could easily grapple or knock you prone. You’d lose concentration, and by the second turn, you’d be gone.
Even back in the 2014 version, I would always switch to a shield and play defensively to survive when fighting alongside a front-line Fighter.
Now imagine doing all that without AC…
Accursed shield is a bad fix for AC. +2 is bad enough also a value but you also have two restrictions in top of it being a poor defensive buff: have to be within 10ft of a specific target and only works while not wearing armor which means it forces you to take armor of shadows which is a bad invocation which you don't want anyway. Armor of hexes is also a poor feature especially at level 10: reducing 10 dmg from one attack coming from a specific target as a reaction (meaning only once per turn at a stage of the game where enemies are attacking multiple times) is nothing to write home about.
crit on a 19 comes in way too late, it should be part of the basic hexbaldes curse.
unyielding will is a nice feature but its only one use per long rest which is too few. It should refresh on a short rest.
hindering curse only works for you allies except for in some very niche cases so its dependent on your team and does not grant you any personal benefits.
harrowing hex is not that great on a class that only has 2 spell slot for moat of its career and using those spell slots to sometimes cast bonus action spells such as spirit shroud or animate objects (takes action to casts and bonus action to command) so realistically you aren’t getting much use out of it if any.
inescapable hex is not terrible but it triggers attacks of opportunity so in certain cases it might be unusable or too risky to use with your poor AC which the subclass itself does not fix.
new spells: thats what the expanded spell list exists for. Its not really something out of the ordinary and the spell list itself is good, not fantastic but with that said, the spell list is probably the best and most exciting feature in the entire subclass which is not ideal to say the least.
other subclasses might not be ideal, but neither is this, it does not fix the glaring survivability issue since the defensive features are a hindrance to use and even then are poor in what the actually give and if you want to be in melee your still better off multiclassing and at that point any other subclass is better than this.
the dmg on unyielding will is negligible at level 3 and since it does not scale, it becomes useless very fast. And as I already said unyielding will is decent but only 1 use is too few and yeah the spell list is great and fun but not worth taking the subclass for it because the rest of the features are simply bad.
the level 14 feature is also laughable 3D6 dmg once per long rest and two minor features which should be part of the base hexblades curse.
multiclassing is definitely better and again if im multiclassing im dropping hexblade all together since the other subclasses grant better benefits at less of a cost. Im not sure where you are getting the 5 spells from since you only have 2 spell slots, but even so, I would rather push my features a level back bit have armor prof on top of con saves, masteries and fighting styles. With a pure hexblade you still get like a 17 AC but only if you invest in armor of shadows and be within 10 of your curse target. While I can where halfplate and take defense and be at 18 AC all the time not to mention if I get magical armor I can wear it while with the pure hexblade you are stuck without armor or have to give up 50% of your hexbaldes curse benefits.
No matter how you spin it the UA hexblade is poorly designed, there is no feature which feels remotely good to use or powerful enough compared to what you can get from other subclasses. It does not fix any of the issues bladelocks have (it tries to, but it fails to do so because the features are weak), non of the damaging features scale so they start feeling weak almost immediately and the few features you have that are not tied to the curse target are either weak/difficult to use or limited in use (unyielding will). This version is uninspired and unfortunately it shows that it had been designed by people who dont get what the hexblade is supposed to be mechanically. Its trying too hard to not be the PotB subclass while still trying to weave in some features which encourage melee weapon fighting and it juts ends up failing on all fronts.
the hexbalde needs to do 4 things:
- give warlocks good AC and defensive options that can be easily accessed and maintained so it can reliably exist in melee, either through armor and shield profs or some sort of bonus that scales with their CHA ( they gave it to draconic sorcs, genie palys and bladesinger wizards I dont see why they shouldnt give it to the frontline warlock subclass).
- restore hexbaldes curse to be as close to the original as possible meaning improved crit, healing on kill and se sort kf a dmg boost.
- have features which combine sword and sorcery like they gave other gish subclasses and lean more into the melee weapon fighting power fantasy without being afraid it will end up the default PotB pick, it is supposed to be.
- lastly it should not be fully dependent on the hexblades curse. Its ok to have some features which work on the cursed target but it needs to have features which can also stand on their own. Being able to function only against one target is neither fun nor satisfying to play ( something which the original hexblade suffered from but hex warrior and hexblades curse where powerful enough to make this issue be negligible).
Agreed. Except you don’t necessarily need STR. With 14 DEX you can wear a half plate which is only 1 AC short of a fullplate.
The reason I keep saying I would prefer a feature which boosts your AC that scales with CHA is because it would allow the warlock to go pure hexblade and not feel bad about its defences. If it was something like add CHA modifier to AC while not wearing armor I would be happy to take armor of shadows, but for a measly +2 im just gonna start fighter and not even bother trying.
Giving hexblades unarmored AC of 10+DEX+CHA is the only alternative to armor proficiency that seems worthwhile to me. Yes, it is recycling something that already exists, but the alternatives are just not good enough. Even if the bonus was bigger, the one from the latest UA still sucks, as all it takes for you to lose it is for the target to move away (or die?). I think any solution where you can easily lose you AC boost outside of your turn is just bad.
In melee with Medium Armor and a 14 DEX and dumping STR, you will be vulnerable to grapples. Assuming multiple enemies, advantage on attacks against you would roughly reduce your AC by 4 (I think the actual number is closer to 3.8). If you are relying on DEX for AC, you'll probably make a DEX Save to break out of it. If you are using STR for attacks, you will probably use a STR Save. If you're Dumping STR, putting a minor investment into DEX, and focusing on CHA, you'll be vulnerable against Grapples and maybe other attacks. This doesn't apply to the Bladesinger because they are going to be investing in DEX and INT for AC and it feels like WotC was trying to make a Bladesinger Warlock instead of a Hexblade one.
How to add Tooltips.
My houserulings.
first off, why would you assume the hexblade has no str, i just pointed out you can build a hexblade with strength.
furthermore, the 2014, or any UA of hexblade is just as likely to have strength.
2nd both grapple and shove can be avoided with either dex saves or strength saves in 2024, and escaped via acrobatics, or athletics.
3rd, creatures who are meant to grapple in 2024 have automatic grapple on hit. as you said, no save at all.
4rth if a creature grapples you, you either force movement, grapple, or you fight as usual, its extremely rare that its worth giving up an action to remove a grapple for a melee charachter. the melee charachter wants to be close to things to kill them. But regardless as shown above, no hexblade is any more likely to have strength than another, and dex is just as viable..
RE AC. where are you getting the idea that the new hexblade always has lower AC than medium armor? Hexblade can have 16 AC at level 1, and 18 AC by level 8. accursed shield only increases their AC past that. If you have lower AC than 16, its because you chose something else over having AC. Medium armor never had a chance of giving you 20 AC. or even 18AC.
I had a group of 4 hexblades, 2 with dips. the highest AC was the pure hexblade. the hexblade/fighter capped at 18, the hexblade/ranger had 17 without medium armor. There was even a hexblade with 15 base armor (14 dex 16 con) and he didnt have issues surviving, because warlock has temp HP and can get tough from. lessons. and has 17 AC around hexed targets.
you keep saying they need AC, they have the same AC as other. martials.
Re unarmored defense. with unarmored defense CHA DEX you get the same AC when near hexed target with armor of shadows. if you had 3 dex and 5 cha you would have 18 dex. (10+3+5) if you have 3 dex and armor of shadows you have 18 AC (13+3+2) while close to hexed targets.
and you can achieve 18 AC at level 3, while unarmored defense cant.achieve the same number until level 8 at absolute earliest. getting higher AC for either case would require more investment in dex.
the difference is it only works while you are meleeing a creature, which you have the tools to do, and the whole class design encourages.
and the main issue is running out of hexblades curse too fast, which is the real problem with the subclass (3-5 curses per day before 14 is questionable)
And to be honest even then the problem isnt survival, its just less entertaining to have none of the benefits of hexblades curse.
you keep mentioning having bad AC, but when is this? who has more than 18 AC at level 3 with hands free?
re hindering hex, the class has staggering strike built in. a 75% (assuming 50% normal) chance to stun a target until your next turn, and deal 4d6-5d6 damage in one hit (you choose the order of effects with the same trigger) which lasts until the end of your next round.
Also, the fact that teamates may get even more benefit from it is not a minus,
low level version is applying frightened(disadvantage on attacks, cant move closer to target, built in
harrowing hex is 1/3rd of the 6th level features, and it comes up more than enough to justify its existence. conjure barrage? add an attack, steel wind strike? add an attack. hypnotic pattern? add an attack. bestow curse? add an attack, mirror images? add an attack.freedom of movement? cloud of daggers, fear? banishment? and dealing a whole attacks worth of damage, potentially two times per SR, isnt generally considered a weak feature at 6.
they can also get weapon mastery via feat, or other means.
reducing damage by 10+ on the enemy you are meleeing, at level 10 is a big deal, the average damage around 10 is about 27 including AC reducing that to 17 is signifigant, and even barbarians in 2024, arent doing much better than that due more creatures dealing multiple damage types. Who do you think is doing better defensively? especially while dealing good damage and having access to level 5 spell solutions.
the hexblade group seriously was noticeably more survivable than other groups ive tested.
The issue with Accursed shield is its condition. Its too easy to lose and a stupid hindrance to keep track off. Not to mention that it does not scale while armor can scale due to the potential magic items (+1/2/3 armor). And the fact that its tied to a feature which is very limited in use makes it even worse. The AC fix to a subclass which is looking to be on melee needs to be efficient and consistent, and Accursed shield is neither of those things. Unarmored defense would not be as great, I agree, thats why i mentioned a feature similar to the genie paladin/bladesinger which is a CHA based AC boost that stacks with light armor or no armor (assuming 14 DEX because it is not realistic to expect more from a build that requires CHA, CON, DEX and STR, you would get 12+2+CHA for an AC of 17-19 with studded leather which can increase of you find magical armor or 13+2+CHA with armor of shadows for an AC of 18-20 which might benefit from specific items such as bracers of defense). 15/16 AC is not an acceptable AC for a build which is looking to be in melee consistently.
I still disagree on Armor of hexes. The dmg mitigation value is poor considering it inly works on the hexblades curse target. You are never gonna be facing 1 enemy in melee and at this level 10 dmg reduced from 1 attack is pathetic. Personally I never liked armor of hexes the original one was very feast or famine while this one just has poor values. The feature at level 10 combined with the fact that the capstone is so lackluster does not deter me from multiclassing and getting goodies from other classes and that is poor design. These higher level feature should be the ones to get you excited about taking more levels in the class not deter you from doing so.
I can see the argument for hindering hex and harrowing hex. My issue with both features (which is my issue with almost all of the subclass) is how limited in use they are. Harrowing hex is limited by the number of spell slots which is only 2 and if assuming we might be using some of those slots for BA spells or the occasional smite the uses decrease even more to the point where its a feature that I am not that happy to have. Thats why I suggested it should be a free attack that you get to make as part of the same action as casting the spell so at least I can get to use it with the smite spells. This is supposed to be the warlocks version of improved extra attack they gave other gishes but it is not even close. Substituting an attack for a cantrip can be done every turn while this is not gonna be used most of the time. I would prefer to see this feature replaced entirely bit that might be just me.
hindering hex is fine but the fact that it works only on the hexblades curse target is another case of a feature being limited in use by multiple factors, but its decent enough.
Ignoring these hexblades curse is still to limited in the number of uses it has without being able to be moved around and the features it provides are just bad. Improved critical and extra dmg along with the healing should be what the curse does and the AC boost should be its own feature that is independent if the curse and always or at least mostly on.
The major issue is that all of the features are either ok or meh and that is not a subclass which is exciting to play. I believe that the hexblade still requires a lot of work and needs another round of UA testing and feedback from the community as the current version is miles from being good or fun enough to play.
-hexblades curse needs to be a dmg booster at lvl 3 not a lackluster defensive tool and needs someway if having more uptime make it transferable somehow maybe at mater levels but nkt at level 14 which is too late
-the AC boost needs to be able to stand alone. Move it to unyielding will and remove the 2D6 dmg since its useless anyway and make it a scaling boost to AC. Or if they cant be bothered to design a satisfying AC feature just give back armor prof.
-harrowing hex needs to change somehow to either be more usable or to be more impactful when used (After casting a level 1+ spell as an action you can make 1 weapon attack as a bonus action m. This attack deals an additional D6 dmg for each level of the spell slot used.)
-Armor of hexes needs to either go or be a much better defensive boost (passive dmg reduction against all dmg from the cursed target, a reaction that completely nullifies a single attack or a passive dmg reduction while concentrating so its usable beyond the constraints of hexblades curse).
-the capstone needs to be revamped completely. The critical boost needs to go back to lvl3. The additional uses of hexblades curse needs to be a transfering mechanic like hex that comes in at lvl6 or at the latest 10 and exploding hex needs to be either changes completely or deal a lot more dmg (4D6 + warlock level, or 8D6 or something similar that is at least comparable to a fireball, 3D6 at level 14 is a joke.)
Here simple changes to the WoTc designed that wont appease hexblade OGs but at least make it playable.
- Hexblade’s Curse
return the old hexblades curse (prof bonus to dmg, improved crit and healing) but with CHA modifier uses and healing adjusted accordingly to D8+CHA.
- unyielding will
replace the exploding on successful con save with an AC boost (while wearing light armor or no armor and not wielding a shield, gain AC equal to CHA modifier. You might attach a condition to it to balance it out something like while concentrating on a spell or while there is any creature within 10 feet of you)
second part unchanged but refresh in a shirt rest.
- malign brutality
hindering hex: unchanged
harrowing hex: same + the BA attack from it deals additional dmg D6 for each level of the slot used to cast the spell.
inescapable hex: same but make it a teleport so its more flavorful and gets passes attack of opportunities and obstacles in the way.
persistent hex (new): when your curse target dies, you can use a BA on subsequent turns to transfer the curse without refreshing the duration.
- armor of hexes: you have resistance against all dmg dealt to you by your curse target.
- masterful hex
accursed critical: moved to lvl3
the regain uses of hexblades cursed replaced by persistent hex at lvl 6
exploding hex: same but dmg increased drastically (6D6, 8D6, scales with warlock level a lot of options)
accursed blade (new): your weapon attacks deal an additional D6 dmg on hit (a constant benefit detached from anything else so at least you have something permanent)