Hexblade already had Medium Armor and Shield. I don't even know why Its a discussion
Because this one is not designed to be a dedicated weapon-user, and ergo doesn’t have the same need for AC.
So the admitting the new Hexblade that has blade on its name is not weapon based? So whats is based on?
Hex, clearly. I’ve said a few times it needs to be renamed rather than trying to carry forward an existing name.
It's based on receiving power FROM a blade that you do not necessarily possess, & lowering the need to make it power FOR a blade.
I read the bumper sticker, but for all practical purposes the “blade” bit is just being shoehorned in as they try to reuse the existing name even though they’re stretching to the breaking point to make a connection.
Hexblade already had Medium Armor and Shield. I don't even know why Its a discussion
Because this one is not designed to be a dedicated weapon-user, and ergo doesn’t have the same need for AC.
So the admitting the new Hexblade that has blade on its name is not weapon based? So whats is based on?
Hex, clearly. I’ve said a few times it needs to be renamed rather than trying to carry forward an existing name.
It's based on receiving power FROM a blade that you do not necessarily possess, & lowering the need to make it power FOR a blade.
I read the bumper sticker, but for all practical purposes the “blade” bit is just being shoehorned in as they try to reuse the existing name even though they’re stretching to the breaking point to make a connection.
There's that "Pact of the Hexblade/Pact of the Blade+" mentality, that, which worked in 2014, causes redundancy in 2024, while also excluding Pact of the Tome & Pact of the Chain users.
It's valid when contained in 2014, but this is clearly meant to be something more neutral aka divorced more from lore.
If they kept the manuever-style bits & added back medium armor & shields, this wouldn't be a feedback disaster. The Hex ramrodding is the problem.
People simply can't force a Hexblade Dip in 2024 anymore, because, for all intents & purposes, that's what most optimizers did.
As for the Hexblade in the title, I've already thought of at least 3 different ways to write it into a 2024 backstory w/o using a single bit of Xanathar's lore or external reading.
1. An Ancestor of a Gold Dragonborn Clan Chief's son cut themselves on a blade dripping with the ichor from a dying arch hag. The man, so many number of generations down, begins manifesting strange magic after hearing the hag's voice on the wind. 2. A rookie treasure hunter, by pure luck, accidentally found a magic cane while bumming around a cave nearby Baldur's Gate. The cane contained a sliver of a forgotten Demon Prince, who gave the treasure hunter a reward:blade-shaped scar on their arm that eventually manifested as dancing accursed rotting spectral energy blades, starting from a minor curse cast in jest in a battle of wits 3. A haughty Aereni High Elf sat at the judgement of the Undying Court, accused of betraying her people for a jeweled sword. While in reality it was a test of character, said sword was bound to her soul via the court's power, and she was made a direct agent, with miniature versions of the sword manifested & danced upon her invoking a dread word, flensing those whom she was dispatched to deal with as her "penance".
Part of the problem is they need to replace Hexblade to invalidate the 2014 version with 2024 Warlock in accordance with their guidance. They can't simply rename it, even though they should.
Warlocks also have Armor of Agathys for defense, and with the free casts of Hex it doesn’t chew through their slots all that quickly, relative to typical encounter length. No, they’re never going to boldly stand at the front like a Paladin or Fighter, but neither do Bladesingers or martial Bards.
My 2014 Hexlock does/did. Pact weapon was a long sword, wore half plate and used a shield. Yeah, he has a few tricks up his sleeve but he was for the most part a front line gish for the party. (Using Blink and Blur in combination helps a lot with that. :D)
The 2024 Hexblade cannot do this. As folks have been saying: this needs to be called something else, because the version in UA sure ain't it.
Hexblade is a problem for WotC design team. They don't want to create a subclass that is the "best" option for Warlocks that want to use Pact of the Blade the way the previous Hexblade was. That is a fine goal to have in my opinion, but I have no idea how they are going to do that and satisfy those that want Hexblade to give them all the tools to be a the "best" gish. For the health of the game, I really don't want a "best" in role subclasses for any class but I am probably alone in that opinion.
Hexblade is a problem for WotC design team. They don't want to create a subclass that is the "best" option for Warlocks that want to use Pact of the Blade the way the previous Hexblade was. That is a fine goal to have in my opinion, but I have no idea how they are going to do that and satisfy those that want Hexblade to give them all the tools to be a the "best" gish. For the health of the game, I really don't want a "best" in role subclasses for any class but I am probably alone in that opinion.
I don't really have any strong opinions about Hexblade in particular, but I definitely agree that it's bad for there to be one subclass that's "best" to the extent that we end up with no one (or hardly anyone) playing any of the others.
Hexblade is a problem for WotC design team. They don't want to create a subclass that is the "best" option for Warlocks that want to use Pact of the Blade the way the previous Hexblade was. That is a fine goal to have in my opinion, but I have no idea how they are going to do that and satisfy those that want Hexblade to give them all the tools to be a the "best" gish. For the health of the game, I really don't want a "best" in role subclasses for any class but I am probably alone in that opinion.
Nah, I agree. Particularly because they've tossed pretty much all the tools you need to gish as a Warlock into Invocations.
Hexblade is a problem for WotC design team. They don't want to create a subclass that is the "best" option for Warlocks that want to use Pact of the Blade the way the previous Hexblade was. That is a fine goal to have in my opinion, but I have no idea how they are going to do that and satisfy those that want Hexblade to give them all the tools to be a the "best" gish. For the health of the game, I really don't want a "best" in role subclasses for any class but I am probably alone in that opinion.
Nah, I agree. Particularly because they've tossed pretty much all the tools you need to gish as a Warlock into Invocations.
Almost. We're going to keep dancing this dance. :) I don't think shield, armor of Agathys, or mage armor are good substitutes for shield training if you want a Hexblade that can actually fight in melee.
As I've written: with the exception of medium armor and shield training, I was able to build a very close approximation of my 2014 Hexblade warlock using the 2024 PHB. It's almost there.
I'm going to keep hoping official errata fixes the Moderately Armored feat so that it includes shield training. At the very least, I'm going to house rule that it does.
They are treating Hex like Hunter's Mark, and I do not like it. Making a subclass reliant on a low-level spell with damage that does not scale at higher levels and requires concentration, I do not understand why they would do it.
They are treating Hex like Hunter's Mark, and I do not like it. Making a subclass reliant on a low-level spell with damage that does not scale at higher levels and requires concentration, I do not understand why they would do it.
Because Warlocks spend most of their time cantrip or weapon spamming anyways and this lets them do it much better? Just a thought.
Hexblade is a problem for WotC design team. They don't want to create a subclass that is the "best" option for Warlocks that want to use Pact of the Blade the way the previous Hexblade was. That is a fine goal to have in my opinion, but I have no idea how they are going to do that and satisfy those that want Hexblade to give them all the tools to be a the "best" gish. For the health of the game, I really don't want a "best" in role subclasses for any class but I am probably alone in that opinion.
Nah, I agree. Particularly because they've tossed pretty much all the tools you need to gish as a Warlock into Invocations.
Almost. We're going to keep dancing this dance. :) I don't think shield, armor of Agathys, or mage armor are good substitutes for shield training if you want a Hexblade that can actually fight in melee.
As I've written: with the exception of medium armor and shield training, I was able to build a very close approximation of my 2014 Hexblade warlock using the 2024 PHB. It's almost there.
I'm going to keep hoping official errata fixes the Moderately Armored feat so that it includes shield training. At the very least, I'm going to house rule that it does.
shields are not required for melee/offensive builds, its an option, and its an option that it makes sense is not the standard option for the concept of a cursed blade user.
the archetype is closer to the offense focused martial, that is less able to face tank. Monk has no shields, dual wielder archetypes dont use shields, great weapon users dont use shields. They have an ability that returns health per cursed enemy killed, they can block damage a certain amount of times, and they have as you say false life armor of agaythys, mage armor, etc.
now, i might make adjustments, but as some one who plays monks, and rogues, and rangers without shields, its fairly weird to say a a warlock with mehods of HP return, and reaction based damage mitigation, as well as all the invocation options is somehow in dire need of things to be attackers that half the martials dont usually have.
not every class thats attack based needs to approach it like a sword and board type. you can build a fairly efficent melee attacker with warlock base kit, and this subclass. same AC as rogue/barb/monk, more HP via false life. auto recovery per cursed target killed, situational defense and offense and recovery via pact magic.
there isnt really more they need to be viable defensively, or if they do, every non sword and board build is also in need of something, because many have substantially less than this warlock would have.
Hexblade is a problem for WotC design team. They don't want to create a subclass that is the "best" option for Warlocks that want to use Pact of the Blade the way the previous Hexblade was. That is a fine goal to have in my opinion, but I have no idea how they are going to do that and satisfy those that want Hexblade to give them all the tools to be a the "best" gish. For the health of the game, I really don't want a "best" in role subclasses for any class but I am probably alone in that opinion.
I don’t see this as a problem—in fact, it’s a great opportunity to create something really exciting. Just look at Baldur’s Gate 3—they did an excellent job with the Hexblade, and let’s not forget it was BG3 that inspired Pact of the Blade into a class-wide Warlock feature.
Hexblade Warlocks are all about using weapons—that’s the core identity of the subclass. Making that playstyle viable isn’t difficult or problematic. In fact, there are multiple ways to achieve it.
I really enjoy this subclass because it frees me from relying on Eldritch Blast and lets me take a frontline role in the party.
Hexblade is a problem for WotC design team. They don't want to create a subclass that is the "best" option for Warlocks that want to use Pact of the Blade the way the previous Hexblade was. That is a fine goal to have in my opinion, but I have no idea how they are going to do that and satisfy those that want Hexblade to give them all the tools to be a the "best" gish. For the health of the game, I really don't want a "best" in role subclasses for any class but I am probably alone in that opinion.
Nah, I agree. Particularly because they've tossed pretty much all the tools you need to gish as a Warlock into Invocations.
Almost. We're going to keep dancing this dance. :) I don't think shield, armor of Agathys, or mage armor are good substitutes for shield training if you want a Hexblade that can actually fight in melee.
As I've written: with the exception of medium armor and shield training, I was able to build a very close approximation of my 2014 Hexblade warlock using the 2024 PHB. It's almost there.
I'm going to keep hoping official errata fixes the Moderately Armored feat so that it includes shield training. At the very least, I'm going to house rule that it does.
shields are not required for melee/offensive builds, its an option, and its an option that it makes sense is not the standard option for the concept of a cursed blade user.
the archetype is closer to the offense focused martial, that is less able to face tank. Monk has no shields, dual wielder archetypes dont use shields, great weapon users dont use shields. They have an ability that returns health per cursed enemy killed, they can block damage a certain amount of times, and they have as you say false life armor of agaythys, mage armor, etc.
now, i might make adjustments, but as some one who plays monks, and rogues, and rangers without shields, its fairly weird to say a a warlock with mehods of HP return, and reaction based damage mitigation, as well as all the invocation options is somehow in dire need of things to be attackers that half the martials dont usually have.
not every class thats attack based needs to approach it like a sword and board type. you can build a fairly efficent melee attacker with warlock base kit, and this subclass. same AC as rogue/barb/monk, more HP via false life. auto recovery per cursed target killed, situational defense and offense and recovery via pact magic.
there isnt really more they need to be viable defensively, or if they do, every non sword and board build is also in need of something, because many have substantially less than this warlock would have.
Your argument feels a bit one-dimensional. Shields aren't just optional—they're actively used to adopt a more defensive stance. Wearing armor is also essential, especially considering the availability of magical armor that enhances survivability.
Comparing Hexblades to Barbarians—who have massive HP pools and damage reduction—or to Monks and Rogues, who rely on high mobility, isn't really fair. These classes have entirely different defensive mechanics and combat roles.
I don’t know how things go at your table, but any good frontliner needs to know when to push aggressively and when to play defensively. That’s fundamental combat strategy.
And let’s be clear: we’re not asking to add a new feature to the subclass—it’s had this since 2014!
Hexblade is a problem for WotC design team. They don't want to create a subclass that is the "best" option for Warlocks that want to use Pact of the Blade the way the previous Hexblade was. That is a fine goal to have in my opinion, but I have no idea how they are going to do that and satisfy those that want Hexblade to give them all the tools to be a the "best" gish. For the health of the game, I really don't want a "best" in role subclasses for any class but I am probably alone in that opinion.
Nah, I agree. Particularly because they've tossed pretty much all the tools you need to gish as a Warlock into Invocations.
Almost. We're going to keep dancing this dance. :) I don't think shield, armor of Agathys, or mage armor are good substitutes for shield training if you want a Hexblade that can actually fight in melee.
As I've written: with the exception of medium armor and shield training, I was able to build a very close approximation of my 2014 Hexblade warlock using the 2024 PHB. It's almost there.
I'm going to keep hoping official errata fixes the Moderately Armored feat so that it includes shield training. At the very least, I'm going to house rule that it does.
shields are not required for melee/offensive builds, its an option, and its an option that it makes sense is not the standard option for the concept of a cursed blade user.
the archetype is closer to the offense focused martial, that is less able to face tank. Monk has no shields, dual wielder archetypes dont use shields, great weapon users dont use shields. They have an ability that returns health per cursed enemy killed, they can block damage a certain amount of times, and they have as you say false life armor of agaythys, mage armor, etc.
now, i might make adjustments, but as some one who plays monks, and rogues, and rangers without shields, its fairly weird to say a a warlock with mehods of HP return, and reaction based damage mitigation, as well as all the invocation options is somehow in dire need of things to be attackers that half the martials dont usually have.
not every class thats attack based needs to approach it like a sword and board type. you can build a fairly efficent melee attacker with warlock base kit, and this subclass. same AC as rogue/barb/monk, more HP via false life. auto recovery per cursed target killed, situational defense and offense and recovery via pact magic.
there isnt really more they need to be viable defensively, or if they do, every non sword and board build is also in need of something, because many have substantially less than this warlock would have.
Your argument feels a bit one-dimensional. Shields aren't just optional—they're actively used to adopt a more defensive stance. Wearing armor is also essential, especially considering the availability of magical armor that enhances survivability.
Comparing Hexblades to Barbarians—who have massive HP pools and damage reduction—or to Monks and Rogues, who rely on high mobility, isn't really fair. These classes have entirely different defensive mechanics and combat roles.
I don’t know how things go at your table, but any good frontliner needs to know when to push aggressively and when to play defensively. That’s fundamental combat strategy.
And let’s be clear: we’re not asking to add a new feature to the subclass—it’s had this since 2014!
Pretty sure Hexblade didn’t come out in 2014, and name aside this is a completely different subclass so the appeal to tradition falls flat at the outset if we’re discussing the update as it is rather than substantially looking to completely redesign it.
Hexblade is a problem for WotC design team. They don't want to create a subclass that is the "best" option for Warlocks that want to use Pact of the Blade the way the previous Hexblade was. That is a fine goal to have in my opinion, but I have no idea how they are going to do that and satisfy those that want Hexblade to give them all the tools to be a the "best" gish. For the health of the game, I really don't want a "best" in role subclasses for any class but I am probably alone in that opinion.
Nah, I agree. Particularly because they've tossed pretty much all the tools you need to gish as a Warlock into Invocations.
Almost. We're going to keep dancing this dance. :) I don't think shield, armor of Agathys, or mage armor are good substitutes for shield training if you want a Hexblade that can actually fight in melee.
As I've written: with the exception of medium armor and shield training, I was able to build a very close approximation of my 2014 Hexblade warlock using the 2024 PHB. It's almost there.
I'm going to keep hoping official errata fixes the Moderately Armored feat so that it includes shield training. At the very least, I'm going to house rule that it does.
shields are not required for melee/offensive builds, its an option, and its an option that it makes sense is not the standard option for the concept of a cursed blade user.
the archetype is closer to the offense focused martial, that is less able to face tank. Monk has no shields, dual wielder archetypes dont use shields, great weapon users dont use shields. They have an ability that returns health per cursed enemy killed, they can block damage a certain amount of times, and they have as you say false life armor of agaythys, mage armor, etc.
now, i might make adjustments, but as some one who plays monks, and rogues, and rangers without shields, its fairly weird to say a a warlock with mehods of HP return, and reaction based damage mitigation, as well as all the invocation options is somehow in dire need of things to be attackers that half the martials dont usually have.
not every class thats attack based needs to approach it like a sword and board type. you can build a fairly efficent melee attacker with warlock base kit, and this subclass. same AC as rogue/barb/monk, more HP via false life. auto recovery per cursed target killed, situational defense and offense and recovery via pact magic.
there isnt really more they need to be viable defensively, or if they do, every non sword and board build is also in need of something, because many have substantially less than this warlock would have.
Your argument feels a bit one-dimensional. Shields aren't just optional—they're actively used to adopt a more defensive stance. Wearing armor is also essential, especially considering the availability of magical armor that enhances survivability.
Comparing Hexblades to Barbarians—who have massive HP pools and damage reduction—or to Monks and Rogues, who rely on high mobility, isn't really fair. These classes have entirely different defensive mechanics and combat roles.
I don’t know how things go at your table, but any good frontliner needs to know when to push aggressively and when to play defensively. That’s fundamental combat strategy.
And let’s be clear: we’re not asking to add a new feature to the subclass—it’s had this since 2014!
the 2024 warlock has access to jump all the time, that means it has 50 movement speed base, it alsonow has onhit slow with disabling of opportunity attacks, that is as good or better than monk or rogue mobility. it also has more ho recovery, temp hp, and defensive options than monk or rogue has.
i have literally played tons of melee types and attackers that have never touched a shield.
Barbarian is not just playing with 16-17 AC, its usually playing with 16-17AC AND disadvantage. barbarians get two die steps of AC, but false life for warlock gives + 12 hp. (infinite recast) that means it has access to more hp than rogue, monk, or ranger for most of their careers.
Yes, some martials can strap on a shield for more AC, (and so can some pure casters) and have heavy armor, but that is far from the requirement for archetype, in terms of pure martials we have rogue, fighter, monk and barbarian. Only half of them have shield proficiency, and all of them have different armor proficiencies (none, light, medium, heavy) So it really is very questionable your assertion that any attacker requires a certain armor and a shield. And as i said, rogue, monk have substantially less mitigation and recovery than baseline warlocks and certainly this subclass have access to.
Some martials have shields a high armor class, not all of them.
hexblade is focused on attacking and debuffing sngle targets. And by the numbers, they will be good at it. At level 14, hexblade pactblade warlock could have gwm, elven accuracy,
giving them a 63% chance to crit with 3 attacks, and 3d6 crit baseline. that put them at around 85dpr if they have advantage. that doesnt include smites, or steel wind blade (and criticals for 6d10), or magic weapon.
The spell list is pretty crazy, this guy is doing level 5 smites or steal wind strike at level 9 what, 5 times a day on average? 8 times at 11? staggering smite is better than stunning strike btw, and hexblade can set up disadvantage on saves. so they are actually litterally the best class at landing wrathful and staggering smite.
seriously, warlock, and this subclass have enough going for them without also getting easy access to cleric/paladin/fighter AC-1
Hexblade is a problem for WotC design team. They don't want to create a subclass that is the "best" option for Warlocks that want to use Pact of the Blade the way the previous Hexblade was. That is a fine goal to have in my opinion, but I have no idea how they are going to do that and satisfy those that want Hexblade to give them all the tools to be a the "best" gish. For the health of the game, I really don't want a "best" in role subclasses for any class but I am probably alone in that opinion.
Nah, I agree. Particularly because they've tossed pretty much all the tools you need to gish as a Warlock into Invocations.
Almost. We're going to keep dancing this dance. :) I don't think shield, armor of Agathys, or mage armor are good substitutes for shield training if you want a Hexblade that can actually fight in melee.
As I've written: with the exception of medium armor and shield training, I was able to build a very close approximation of my 2014 Hexblade warlock using the 2024 PHB. It's almost there.
I'm going to keep hoping official errata fixes the Moderately Armored feat so that it includes shield training. At the very least, I'm going to house rule that it does.
shields are not required for melee/offensive builds, its an option, and its an option that it makes sense is not the standard option for the concept of a cursed blade user.
the archetype is closer to the offense focused martial, that is less able to face tank. Monk has no shields, dual wielder archetypes dont use shields, great weapon users dont use shields. They have an ability that returns health per cursed enemy killed, they can block damage a certain amount of times, and they have as you say false life armor of agaythys, mage armor, etc.
now, i might make adjustments, but as some one who plays monks, and rogues, and rangers without shields, its fairly weird to say a a warlock with mehods of HP return, and reaction based damage mitigation, as well as all the invocation options is somehow in dire need of things to be attackers that half the martials dont usually have.
not every class thats attack based needs to approach it like a sword and board type. you can build a fairly efficent melee attacker with warlock base kit, and this subclass. same AC as rogue/barb/monk, more HP via false life. auto recovery per cursed target killed, situational defense and offense and recovery via pact magic.
there isnt really more they need to be viable defensively, or if they do, every non sword and board build is also in need of something, because many have substantially less than this warlock would have.
Your argument feels a bit one-dimensional. Shields aren't just optional—they're actively used to adopt a more defensive stance. Wearing armor is also essential, especially considering the availability of magical armor that enhances survivability.
Comparing Hexblades to Barbarians—who have massive HP pools and damage reduction—or to Monks and Rogues, who rely on high mobility, isn't really fair. These classes have entirely different defensive mechanics and combat roles.
I don’t know how things go at your table, but any good frontliner needs to know when to push aggressively and when to play defensively. That’s fundamental combat strategy.
And let’s be clear: we’re not asking to add a new feature to the subclass—it’s had this since 2014!
the 2024 warlock has access to jump all the time, that means it has 50 movement speed base, it alsonow has onhit slow with disabling of opportunity attacks, that is as good or better than monk or rogue mobility. it also has more ho recovery, temp hp, and defensive options than monk or rogue has.
i have literally played tons of melee types and attackers that have never touched a shield.
Barbarian is not just playing with 16-17 AC, its usually playing with 16-17AC AND disadvantage. barbarians get two die steps of AC, but false life for warlock gives + 12 hp. (infinite recast) that means it has access to more hp than rogue, monk, or ranger for most of their careers.
Yes, some martials can strap on a shield for more AC, (and so can some pure casters) and have heavy armor, but that is far from the requirement for archetype, in terms of pure martials we have rogue, fighter, monk and barbarian. Only half of them have shield proficiency, and all of them have different armor proficiencies (none, light, medium, heavy) So it really is very questionable your assertion that any attacker requires a certain armor and a shield. And as i said, rogue, monk have substantially less mitigation and recovery than baseline warlocks and certainly this subclass have access to.
Some martials have shields a high armor class, not all of them.
hexblade is focused on attacking and debuffing sngle targets. And by the numbers, they will be good at it. At level 14, hexblade pactblade warlock could have gwm, elven accuracy,
giving them a 63% chance to crit with 3 attacks, and 3d6 crit baseline. that put them at around 85dpr if they have advantage. that doesnt include smites, or steel wind blade (and criticals for 6d10), or magic weapon.
The spell list is pretty crazy, this guy is doing level 5 smites or steal wind strike at level 9 what, 5 times a day on average? 8 times at 11? staggering smite is better than stunning strike btw, and hexblade can set up disadvantage on saves. so they are actually litterally the best class at landing wrathful and staggering smite.
seriously, warlock, and this subclass have enough going for them without also getting easy access to cleric/paladin/fighter AC-1
“The 2024 Warlock has access to Jump at all times” — and also gets opportunity attacks for free? That’s quite the stretch.
"Barbarian is not just playing with 16-17 AC, its usually playing with 16-17AC AND disadvantage" I’m not even going to go deep into that—comparing a frontline Barbarian to a Warlock just doesn’t make sense. They’re built for entirely different things.
And the way you're talking, it’s as if Warlocks have infinite spell slots. They don’t. Their resources are limited and have to be managed carefully, especially in melee.
“The 2024 Warlock has access to Jump at all times” — and also gets opportunity attacks for free? That’s quite the stretch.
Otherworldly Leap
Prerequisite: Level 2+ Warlock
You can cast Jump on yourself without expending a spell slot.
From the UA
Draining Slash. The target makes a Constitution saving throw against your spell save DC. On a failed save, the target can’t make Opportunity Attacks and its Speed is halved until the start of your next turn
“The 2024 Warlock has access to Jump at all times” — and also gets opportunity attacks for free? That’s quite the stretch.
Otherworldly Leap
Prerequisite: Level 2+ Warlock
You can cast Jump on yourself without expending a spell slot.
From the UA
Draining Slash. The target makes a Constitution saving throw against your spell save DC. On a failed save, the target can’t make Opportunity Attacks and its Speed is halved until the start of your next turn
Monk:Step of the Wind. You can take the Dash action as a Bonus Action. Alternatively, you can expend 1 Focus Point to take both the Disengage and Dash actions as a Bonus Action, and your jump distance is doubled for the turn.
Rogue: Cunning Action: Your quick thinking and agility allow you to move and act quickly. On your turn, you can take one of the following actions as a Bonus Action: Dash, Disengage, or Hide.
Warlock:
First: You need hex the target.
Then: You need to hit the target.
After that: You pray for a Constitution saving throw against your spell save DC.
Now: You can move safely 30 feet because I didn't have enough actions to cast Jump.
Notably, Rogues and Monks can’t toss a pair of wide spread AoEs twice per Short Rest plus one times per day at 5th level. Or just teleport 30 ft away as a Bonus Action at 3rd. No, Bladelocks don’t have constant use disengage options. They’ve got spell slots for burst damage or emergency eject buttons.
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I read the bumper sticker, but for all practical purposes the “blade” bit is just being shoehorned in as they try to reuse the existing name even though they’re stretching to the breaking point to make a connection.
There's that "Pact of the Hexblade/Pact of the Blade+" mentality, that, which worked in 2014, causes redundancy in 2024, while also excluding Pact of the Tome & Pact of the Chain users.
It's valid when contained in 2014, but this is clearly meant to be something more neutral aka divorced more from lore.
If they kept the manuever-style bits & added back medium armor & shields, this wouldn't be a feedback disaster. The Hex ramrodding is the problem.
People simply can't force a Hexblade Dip in 2024 anymore, because, for all intents & purposes, that's what most optimizers did.
As for the Hexblade in the title, I've already thought of at least 3 different ways to write it into a 2024 backstory w/o using a single bit of Xanathar's lore or external reading.
1. An Ancestor of a Gold Dragonborn Clan Chief's son cut themselves on a blade dripping with the ichor from a dying arch hag. The man, so many number of generations down, begins manifesting strange magic after hearing the hag's voice on the wind.
2. A rookie treasure hunter, by pure luck, accidentally found a magic cane while bumming around a cave nearby Baldur's Gate. The cane contained a sliver of a forgotten Demon Prince, who gave the treasure hunter a reward:blade-shaped scar on their arm that eventually manifested as dancing accursed rotting spectral energy blades, starting from a minor curse cast in jest in a battle of wits
3. A haughty Aereni High Elf sat at the judgement of the Undying Court, accused of betraying her people for a jeweled sword. While in reality it was a test of character, said sword was bound to her soul via the court's power, and she was made a direct agent, with miniature versions of the sword manifested & danced upon her invoking a dread word, flensing those whom she was dispatched to deal with as her "penance".
DM, player & homebrewer(Current homebrew project is an unofficial conversion of SBURB/SGRUB from Homestuck into DND 5e)
Once made Maxwell's Silver Hammer come down upon Strahd's head to make sure he was dead.
Always study & sharpen philosophical razors. They save a lot of trouble.
Part of the problem is they need to replace Hexblade to invalidate the 2014 version with 2024 Warlock in accordance with their guidance. They can't simply rename it, even though they should.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
Ah, I hadn’t considered that point.
My 2014 Hexlock does/did. Pact weapon was a long sword, wore half plate and used a shield. Yeah, he has a few tricks up his sleeve but he was for the most part a front line gish for the party. (Using Blink and Blur in combination helps a lot with that. :D)
The 2024 Hexblade cannot do this. As folks have been saying: this needs to be called something else, because the version in UA sure ain't it.
Hexblade is a problem for WotC design team. They don't want to create a subclass that is the "best" option for Warlocks that want to use Pact of the Blade the way the previous Hexblade was. That is a fine goal to have in my opinion, but I have no idea how they are going to do that and satisfy those that want Hexblade to give them all the tools to be a the "best" gish. For the health of the game, I really don't want a "best" in role subclasses for any class but I am probably alone in that opinion.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
I don't really have any strong opinions about Hexblade in particular, but I definitely agree that it's bad for there to be one subclass that's "best" to the extent that we end up with no one (or hardly anyone) playing any of the others.
pronouns: he/she/they
Nah, I agree. Particularly because they've tossed pretty much all the tools you need to gish as a Warlock into Invocations.
Almost. We're going to keep dancing this dance. :) I don't think shield, armor of Agathys, or mage armor are good substitutes for shield training if you want a Hexblade that can actually fight in melee.
As I've written: with the exception of medium armor and shield training, I was able to build a very close approximation of my 2014 Hexblade warlock using the 2024 PHB. It's almost there.
I'm going to keep hoping official errata fixes the Moderately Armored feat so that it includes shield training. At the very least, I'm going to house rule that it does.
They are treating Hex like Hunter's Mark, and I do not like it.
Making a subclass reliant on a low-level spell with damage that does not scale at higher levels and requires concentration, I do not understand why they would do it.
Because Warlocks spend most of their time cantrip or weapon spamming anyways and this lets them do it much better? Just a thought.
shields are not required for melee/offensive builds, its an option, and its an option that it makes sense is not the standard option for the concept of a cursed blade user.
the archetype is closer to the offense focused martial, that is less able to face tank. Monk has no shields, dual wielder archetypes dont use shields, great weapon users dont use shields. They have an ability that returns health per cursed enemy killed, they can block damage a certain amount of times, and they have as you say false life armor of agaythys, mage armor, etc.
now, i might make adjustments, but as some one who plays monks, and rogues, and rangers without shields, its fairly weird to say a a warlock with mehods of HP return, and reaction based damage mitigation, as well as all the invocation options is somehow in dire need of things to be attackers that half the martials dont usually have.
not every class thats attack based needs to approach it like a sword and board type. you can build a fairly efficent melee attacker with warlock base kit, and this subclass. same AC as rogue/barb/monk, more HP via false life. auto recovery per cursed target killed, situational defense and offense and recovery via pact magic.
there isnt really more they need to be viable defensively, or if they do, every non sword and board build is also in need of something, because many have substantially less than this warlock would have.
I don’t see this as a problem—in fact, it’s a great opportunity to create something really exciting. Just look at Baldur’s Gate 3—they did an excellent job with the Hexblade, and let’s not forget it was BG3 that inspired Pact of the Blade into a class-wide Warlock feature.
Hexblade Warlocks are all about using weapons—that’s the core identity of the subclass. Making that playstyle viable isn’t difficult or problematic. In fact, there are multiple ways to achieve it.
I really enjoy this subclass because it frees me from relying on Eldritch Blast and lets me take a frontline role in the party.
Your argument feels a bit one-dimensional. Shields aren't just optional—they're actively used to adopt a more defensive stance. Wearing armor is also essential, especially considering the availability of magical armor that enhances survivability.
Comparing Hexblades to Barbarians—who have massive HP pools and damage reduction—or to Monks and Rogues, who rely on high mobility, isn't really fair. These classes have entirely different defensive mechanics and combat roles.
I don’t know how things go at your table, but any good frontliner needs to know when to push aggressively and when to play defensively. That’s fundamental combat strategy.
And let’s be clear: we’re not asking to add a new feature to the subclass—it’s had this since 2014!
Pretty sure Hexblade didn’t come out in 2014, and name aside this is a completely different subclass so the appeal to tradition falls flat at the outset if we’re discussing the update as it is rather than substantially looking to completely redesign it.
the 2024 warlock has access to jump all the time, that means it has 50 movement speed base, it alsonow has onhit slow with disabling of opportunity attacks, that is as good or better than monk or rogue mobility. it also has more ho recovery, temp hp, and defensive options than monk or rogue has.
i have literally played tons of melee types and attackers that have never touched a shield.
Barbarian is not just playing with 16-17 AC, its usually playing with 16-17AC AND disadvantage. barbarians get two die steps of AC, but false life for warlock gives + 12 hp. (infinite recast) that means it has access to more hp than rogue, monk, or ranger for most of their careers.
Yes, some martials can strap on a shield for more AC, (and so can some pure casters) and have heavy armor, but that is far from the requirement for archetype, in terms of pure martials we have rogue, fighter, monk and barbarian. Only half of them have shield proficiency, and all of them have different armor proficiencies (none, light, medium, heavy) So it really is very questionable your assertion that any attacker requires a certain armor and a shield. And as i said, rogue, monk have substantially less mitigation and recovery than baseline warlocks and certainly this subclass have access to.
Some martials have shields a high armor class, not all of them.
hexblade is focused on attacking and debuffing sngle targets. And by the numbers, they will be good at it. At level 14, hexblade pactblade warlock could have gwm, elven accuracy,
giving them a 63% chance to crit with 3 attacks, and 3d6 crit baseline. that put them at around 85dpr if they have advantage. that doesnt include smites, or steel wind blade (and criticals for 6d10), or magic weapon.
The spell list is pretty crazy, this guy is doing level 5 smites or steal wind strike at level 9 what, 5 times a day on average? 8 times at 11? staggering smite is better than stunning strike btw, and hexblade can set up disadvantage on saves. so they are actually litterally the best class at landing wrathful and staggering smite.
seriously, warlock, and this subclass have enough going for them without also getting easy access to cleric/paladin/fighter AC-1
“The 2024 Warlock has access to Jump at all times” — and also gets opportunity attacks for free? That’s quite the stretch.
"Barbarian is not just playing with 16-17 AC, its usually playing with 16-17AC AND disadvantage" I’m not even going to go deep into that—comparing a frontline Barbarian to a Warlock just doesn’t make sense. They’re built for entirely different things.
And the way you're talking, it’s as if Warlocks have infinite spell slots. They don’t. Their resources are limited and have to be managed carefully, especially in melee.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
Monk:Step of the Wind. You can take the Dash action as a Bonus Action. Alternatively, you can expend 1 Focus Point to take both the Disengage and Dash actions as a Bonus Action, and your jump distance is doubled for the turn.
Rogue: Cunning Action: Your quick thinking and agility allow you to move and act quickly. On your turn, you can take one of the following actions as a Bonus Action: Dash, Disengage, or Hide.
Warlock:
First: You need hex the target.
Then: You need to hit the target.
After that: You pray for a Constitution saving throw against your spell save DC.
Now: You can move safely 30 feet because I didn't have enough actions to cast Jump.
OMG ! That S Tier!
Notably, Rogues and Monks can’t toss a pair of wide spread AoEs twice per Short Rest plus one times per day at 5th level. Or just teleport 30 ft away as a Bonus Action at 3rd. No, Bladelocks don’t have constant use disengage options. They’ve got spell slots for burst damage or emergency eject buttons.