“The 2024 Warlock has access to Jump at all times” — and also gets opportunity attacks for free? That’s quite the stretch.
Otherworldly Leap
Prerequisite: Level 2+ Warlock
You can cast Jump on yourself without expending a spell slot.
From the UA
Draining Slash. The target makes a Constitution saving throw against your spell save DC. On a failed save, the target can’t make Opportunity Attacks and its Speed is halved until the start of your next turn
Monk:Step of the Wind. You can take the Dash action as a Bonus Action. Alternatively, you can expend 1 Focus Point to take both the Disengage and Dash actions as a Bonus Action, and your jump distance is doubled for the turn.
Rogue: Cunning Action: Your quick thinking and agility allow you to move and act quickly. On your turn, you can take one of the following actions as a Bonus Action: Dash, Disengage, or Hide.
Warlock:
First: You need hex the target.
Then: You need to hit the target.
After that: You pray for a Constitution saving throw against your spell save DC.
Now: You can move safely.
OMG ! That S Tier!
Saying that it was a stretch implied that it couldn't be done. I showed that it could. Never said anything about how good it is.
Notably, Rogues and Monks can’t toss a pair of wide spread AoEs twice per Short Rest plus one times per day at 5th level. Or just teleport 30 ft away as a Bonus Action at 3rd. No, Bladelocks don’t have constant use disengage options. They’ve got spell slots for burst damage or emergency eject buttons.
We are talking about medium armor and you guys are talking about survival that dont need armor. So thats the point.
Notably, Rogues and Monks can’t toss a pair of wide spread AoEs twice per Short Rest plus one times per day at 5th level. Or just teleport 30 ft away as a Bonus Action at 3rd. No, Bladelocks don’t have constant use disengage options. They’ve got spell slots for burst damage or emergency eject buttons.
We are talking about medium armor and you guys are talking about survival that dont need armor. So thats the point.
See above regarding burst damage and teleporting out of danger. There's also a bonus action self heal. No, a Warlock does not get the resources to attempt to just walk in and out of combat at will. But both the class in general and this subclass have multiple resources for staying power. Is there any particular reason so many people are fixated on Medium Armor and a shield besides appeals to tradition and/or powergaming?
I think retaining the Medium Armor & Shields are a compromise regarding the old & the new(I also want some kind of points for these maneuver-style moves instead of the features being tied to a crappy spell like Hex).
But for others, it's about preserving the spirit of the(totally valid as a general style)powergaming in the form of dipping into a class that got their subclass at Level 1, that 2024 has purged successfully at the cost of some degree of narrative cohesion(Cleric & Sorcerer being the most egregious examples).
Still more remember the Hexblade when it was its own class from a past edition, & itch for that in particular.
The common ground being that Medium Armor & Shields proficiencies are needed for this to be enjoyed to a reasonable degree.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
DM, player & homebrewer(Current homebrew project is an unofficial conversion of SBURB/SGRUB from Homestuck into DND 5e)
Once made Maxwell's Silver Hammer come down upon Strahd's head to make sure he was dead.
Always study & sharpen philosophical razors. They save a lot of trouble.
“The 2024 Warlock has access to Jump at all times” — and also gets opportunity attacks for free? That’s quite the stretch.
Otherworldly Leap
Prerequisite: Level 2+ Warlock
You can cast Jump on yourself without expending a spell slot.
From the UA
Draining Slash. The target makes a Constitution saving throw against your spell save DC. On a failed save, the target can’t make Opportunity Attacks and its Speed is halved until the start of your next turn
Monk:Step of the Wind. You can take the Dash action as a Bonus Action. Alternatively, you can expend 1 Focus Point to take both the Disengage and Dash actions as a Bonus Action, and your jump distance is doubled for the turn.
Rogue: Cunning Action: Your quick thinking and agility allow you to move and act quickly. On your turn, you can take one of the following actions as a Bonus Action: Dash, Disengage, or Hide.
Warlock:
First: You need hex the target.
Then: You need to hit the target.
After that: You pray for a Constitution saving throw against your spell save DC.
Now: You can move safely 30 feet because I didn't have enough actions to cast Jump.
OMG ! That S Tier!
monk using a BA gives up 1/2 to 3/5 of its damage to use step of the wind. a warlock can do 3x GWM with charisma and stll have its BA free, or 4x eldritch blast. So in actuality, if you want to use step of the wind to escape, you did trash damage, and should just have used ranged attacks. (which warlock is better at) truth is step of the wind is mostly for chasing, or an emergency misplay, or utility.
you are describing the sequence of events or warlock like its bad/ hard.
warlock is designed to get 3-4 attacks with its magic/attack action alone with no spell cost. you will, as a hexblade 80 % of the time hex a target and hit it 3-4 times, draining slash has no cost. this means essentially 50% of the time you can escape while doing close to full damage. Now personally id get rid of the saves on most of these features, but fact remains, they are built with a disenage, monk has pay half of its dpr to do that.
And i never claimed its S teir, i said that the class has competitive tools for disengaging and approaching. Point isnt that its S teir, its that its inline with other classes.
and warlocks don't have infinite spell slots, and monks dont have infinite ki points, Warlocks have invocations, pact magic. and a pact magic recovery feature. they arent a rogue who just has uncanny dodge and hit dice for mitigation/recovery.
rogue and monk are living with less defensive options than warlock. Its a really hard sell to suggest they MUST have medium armor and shields to do their job, when other classes do the job with less.
Notably, Rogues and Monks can’t toss a pair of wide spread AoEs twice per Short Rest plus one times per day at 5th level. Or just teleport 30 ft away as a Bonus Action at 3rd. No, Bladelocks don’t have constant use disengage options. They’ve got spell slots for burst damage or emergency eject buttons.
We are talking about medium armor and you guys are talking about survival that dont need armor. So thats the point.
point is warlock does not need medium armor and a shield to be viable at an attacker martial role. You and others have implied they need medium armor and shields to be competitive, and they really dont.
Notably, Rogues and Monks can’t toss a pair of wide spread AoEs twice per Short Rest plus one times per day at 5th level. Or just teleport 30 ft away as a Bonus Action at 3rd. No, Bladelocks don’t have constant use disengage options. They’ve got spell slots for burst damage or emergency eject buttons.
We are talking about medium armor and you guys are talking about survival that dont need armor. So thats the point.
point is warlock does not need medium armor and a shield to be viable at an attacker martial role. You and others have implied they need medium armor and shields to be competitive, and they really dont.
Whether or not it's need is not relevant because this is an update subclass. My current character (and I am certain I am not the only Hexblade with this issue) would not function without those proficiencies. You cannot design an update the same way you update a brand new subclass, and they absolutely designed this as a new subclass instead of an update. If using an updated subclass renders a current user of that subclass non-functional, it's a bad design, and that's the issue here.
Notably, Rogues and Monks can’t toss a pair of wide spread AoEs twice per Short Rest plus one times per day at 5th level. Or just teleport 30 ft away as a Bonus Action at 3rd. No, Bladelocks don’t have constant use disengage options. They’ve got spell slots for burst damage or emergency eject buttons.
We are talking about medium armor and you guys are talking about survival that dont need armor. So thats the point.
point is warlock does not need medium armor and a shield to be viable at an attacker martial role. You and others have implied they need medium armor and shields to be competitive, and they really dont.
So go ahead—explain to me what their AC is supposed to be, and how exactly they’re supposed to maintain concentration on Hex while getting hit on the front line. Please, enlighten me.
Like MaverickWolf said—mine doesn’t work that way either.
Notably, Rogues and Monks can’t toss a pair of wide spread AoEs twice per Short Rest plus one times per day at 5th level. Or just teleport 30 ft away as a Bonus Action at 3rd. No, Bladelocks don’t have constant use disengage options. They’ve got spell slots for burst damage or emergency eject buttons.
We are talking about medium armor and you guys are talking about survival that dont need armor. So thats the point.
point is warlock does not need medium armor and a shield to be viable at an attacker martial role. You and others have implied they need medium armor and shields to be competitive, and they really dont.
So go ahead—explain to me what their AC is supposed to be, and how exactly they’re supposed to maintain concentration on Hex while getting hit on the front line. Please, enlighten me.
Like MaverickWolf said—mine doesn’t work that way either.
Well, let's see. There's this crazy idea that a gish isn't supposed to be trying to hold the front lines like a Barbarian, Fighter, or Paladin. The AC is nice, but there's no mitigation, reliable self healing, or soaking to back it up on the 2014 class. It's good for singling out a particular opponent or stacking up extra damage when the whole party is dog piling the boss. I'm sure some people have their cool story or two about valiantly standing at the frontlines as one, but at the end of the day they don't actually have the resources to even keep up with a Rogue or Monk for it if they're fighting anything but trash mobs en mass.
And you'll have 3 or more free casts of Hex, so it's not like you're burning spell slots on it.
Ultimately, you are missing the most important point of the new Hexblade- it's not just for melee builds. All of it's features work on any attack roll you make, such as Eldritch Blast. And, handily, since you'll be SAD if you took Pact of the Blade, if you're so scared you're going to get hit on a given round you can stay back and blast and still get all the perks of your sublcass.
To be very, very clear- 2024 Hexblade is not a gish subclass. It is not a frontliner. It's a debuff subclass that works equally well whether you're using Pact of the Blade or Eldritch Blast.
Notably, Rogues and Monks can’t toss a pair of wide spread AoEs twice per Short Rest plus one times per day at 5th level. Or just teleport 30 ft away as a Bonus Action at 3rd. No, Bladelocks don’t have constant use disengage options. They’ve got spell slots for burst damage or emergency eject buttons.
We are talking about medium armor and you guys are talking about survival that dont need armor. So thats the point.
point is warlock does not need medium armor and a shield to be viable at an attacker martial role. You and others have implied they need medium armor and shields to be competitive, and they really dont.
Whether or not it's need is not relevant because this is an update subclass. My current character (and I am certain I am not the only Hexblade with this issue) would not function without those proficiencies. You cannot design an update the same way you update a brand new subclass, and they absolutely designed this as a new subclass instead of an update. If using an updated subclass renders a current user of that subclass non-functional, it's a bad design, and that's the issue here.
Gee, if only the legacy content were still completely viable for play with the updated rules, so they could actually make a Warlock subclass every build can look at, rather than one that's only good for people who took Pact of the Blade...
Notably, Rogues and Monks can’t toss a pair of wide spread AoEs twice per Short Rest plus one times per day at 5th level. Or just teleport 30 ft away as a Bonus Action at 3rd. No, Bladelocks don’t have constant use disengage options. They’ve got spell slots for burst damage or emergency eject buttons.
We are talking about medium armor and you guys are talking about survival that dont need armor. So thats the point.
point is warlock does not need medium armor and a shield to be viable at an attacker martial role. You and others have implied they need medium armor and shields to be competitive, and they really dont.
Whether or not it's need is not relevant because this is an update subclass. My current character (and I am certain I am not the only Hexblade with this issue) would not function without those proficiencies. You cannot design an update the same way you update a brand new subclass, and they absolutely designed this as a new subclass instead of an update. If using an updated subclass renders a current user of that subclass non-functional, it's a bad design, and that's the issue here.
its not possible to change things and everything works the same, they altered the nature of the warlock class, and made oct of the blade nd invocations do most of what hexblade does. You can use the old subclass if you wish btw, it just has redunancies.
gwm totally changed, sharpshooter totally changed, wildshape and moon druid totally changed, many builds that used to work great are not so great now. There are reasons and overall improvments that effected various builds, thats normal and even intentional.
if you really want a oldschool hexblade, ask the dm, the subclass functions
you can also take the feat, if medium armor is extremely important, or multiclass.
the base features of a subclass/class represent the basic things that subclass needs to function, or seem like that archetype.
and to be honest, they probably should never had baseline access to shields. No class, not even fighter, get baseline access to four d10+mod attacks while being able to get shield AC. And since eldritch blast one handed is baseline, shields probably shouldnt be baseline.
i dont think eldritch blast should be the most effective shield user
Giving Medium Armor and no shield proficiency seems the way to go.
Add in a Fighting Style, and you're good to go - you want more AC? Defense. More offense? Dueling or Great Weapon Fighting. More spell focused? Blessed Warrior. Heck, even Blindfighting or Interception could be viable options. And the cool thing? It's all customizable, which is the hallmark of the Warlock class.
I think that increased armor should have more of a cost than just getting it for free with a subclass. I'd rather that they revisit the old UA that provided increased armor via invocation, than just slap it on Hexblade. I should want to be a Hexblade because the subclass is cool and offers me neat features, rather than being a patch for gaining abilities that I should arguably be able to access through some other means other than multi-class.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
For those like me who think Hexblades should be able to use a shield but also like me are frustrated with the need to take a feat giving them armor training they already have to get shield training....
If the Hexblade isn’t meant to be a weapon focused subclass It doesn’t have a purpose at all. It would be like making a bladesinger that focused on singing. Making Hexblade focused only on hex is silly from my perspective.
I dont mind it being focused on hex; it needs to enhance hex though. Hex alone is simply not worth it. On my last warlock I quit casting it fairly soon because I had better things to use my spell slots/conc on. Make hex worth my time.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
I dont mind it being focused on hex; it needs to enhance hex though. Hex alone is simply not worth it. On my last warlock I quit casting it fairly soon because I had better things to use my spell slots/conc on. Make hex worth my time.
Hexblade can absolutely be a viable and fun subclass in 2025. The 2024 core changes haven’t made Hexblade worse or obsolete in any meaningful way. What we need now is an update that addresses current issues and restores the subclass’s martial identity.
Baldur’s Gate 3 is a great example of how this can be done right—they implemented weapon mastery to the weapon and also tied the curse directly to the weapon, reinforcing the Hexblade’s unique flavor and playstyle.
To the D&D Beyond team: I sincerely hope you listen to the community and ensure that one of the game’s most popular Warlock subclasses doesn’t get left behind. The recent update to the Great Old One is a perfect example of how a thoughtful revision can bring a subclass back to life—we’d love to see the same care given to the Hexblade.
Saying that it was a stretch implied that it couldn't be done. I showed that it could. Never said anything about how good it is.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
We are talking about medium armor and you guys are talking about survival that dont need armor. So thats the point.
See above regarding burst damage and teleporting out of danger. There's also a bonus action self heal. No, a Warlock does not get the resources to attempt to just walk in and out of combat at will. But both the class in general and this subclass have multiple resources for staying power. Is there any particular reason so many people are fixated on Medium Armor and a shield besides appeals to tradition and/or powergaming?
I think retaining the Medium Armor & Shields are a compromise regarding the old & the new(I also want some kind of points for these maneuver-style moves instead of the features being tied to a crappy spell like Hex).
But for others, it's about preserving the spirit of the(totally valid as a general style)powergaming in the form of dipping into a class that got their subclass at Level 1, that 2024 has purged successfully at the cost of some degree of narrative cohesion(Cleric & Sorcerer being the most egregious examples).
Still more remember the Hexblade when it was its own class from a past edition, & itch for that in particular.
The common ground being that Medium Armor & Shields proficiencies are needed for this to be enjoyed to a reasonable degree.
DM, player & homebrewer(Current homebrew project is an unofficial conversion of SBURB/SGRUB from Homestuck into DND 5e)
Once made Maxwell's Silver Hammer come down upon Strahd's head to make sure he was dead.
Always study & sharpen philosophical razors. They save a lot of trouble.
monk using a BA gives up 1/2 to 3/5 of its damage to use step of the wind. a warlock can do 3x GWM with charisma and stll have its BA free, or 4x eldritch blast. So in actuality, if you want to use step of the wind to escape, you did trash damage, and should just have used ranged attacks. (which warlock is better at) truth is step of the wind is mostly for chasing, or an emergency misplay, or utility.
you are describing the sequence of events or warlock like its bad/ hard.
warlock is designed to get 3-4 attacks with its magic/attack action alone with no spell cost. you will, as a hexblade 80 % of the time hex a target and hit it 3-4 times, draining slash has no cost. this means essentially 50% of the time you can escape while doing close to full damage. Now personally id get rid of the saves on most of these features, but fact remains, they are built with a disenage, monk has pay half of its dpr to do that.
And i never claimed its S teir, i said that the class has competitive tools for disengaging and approaching. Point isnt that its S teir, its that its inline with other classes.
and warlocks don't have infinite spell slots, and monks dont have infinite ki points, Warlocks have invocations, pact magic. and a pact magic recovery feature. they arent a rogue who just has uncanny dodge and hit dice for mitigation/recovery.
rogue and monk are living with less defensive options than warlock. Its a really hard sell to suggest they MUST have medium armor and shields to do their job, when other classes do the job with less.
point is warlock does not need medium armor and a shield to be viable at an attacker martial role. You and others have implied they need medium armor and shields to be competitive, and they really dont.
Whether or not it's need is not relevant because this is an update subclass. My current character (and I am certain I am not the only Hexblade with this issue) would not function without those proficiencies. You cannot design an update the same way you update a brand new subclass, and they absolutely designed this as a new subclass instead of an update. If using an updated subclass renders a current user of that subclass non-functional, it's a bad design, and that's the issue here.
So go ahead—explain to me what their AC is supposed to be, and how exactly they’re supposed to maintain concentration on Hex while getting hit on the front line. Please, enlighten me.
Like MaverickWolf said—mine doesn’t work that way either.
Well, let's see. There's this crazy idea that a gish isn't supposed to be trying to hold the front lines like a Barbarian, Fighter, or Paladin. The AC is nice, but there's no mitigation, reliable self healing, or soaking to back it up on the 2014 class. It's good for singling out a particular opponent or stacking up extra damage when the whole party is dog piling the boss. I'm sure some people have their cool story or two about valiantly standing at the frontlines as one, but at the end of the day they don't actually have the resources to even keep up with a Rogue or Monk for it if they're fighting anything but trash mobs en mass.
And you'll have 3 or more free casts of Hex, so it's not like you're burning spell slots on it.
Ultimately, you are missing the most important point of the new Hexblade- it's not just for melee builds. All of it's features work on any attack roll you make, such as Eldritch Blast. And, handily, since you'll be SAD if you took Pact of the Blade, if you're so scared you're going to get hit on a given round you can stay back and blast and still get all the perks of your sublcass.
To be very, very clear- 2024 Hexblade is not a gish subclass. It is not a frontliner. It's a debuff subclass that works equally well whether you're using Pact of the Blade or Eldritch Blast.
Gee, if only the legacy content were still completely viable for play with the updated rules, so they could actually make a Warlock subclass every build can look at, rather than one that's only good for people who took Pact of the Blade...
its not possible to change things and everything works the same, they altered the nature of the warlock class, and made oct of the blade nd invocations do most of what hexblade does. You can use the old subclass if you wish btw, it just has redunancies.
gwm totally changed, sharpshooter totally changed, wildshape and moon druid totally changed, many builds that used to work great are not so great now. There are reasons and overall improvments that effected various builds, thats normal and even intentional.
if you really want a oldschool hexblade, ask the dm, the subclass functions
you can also take the feat, if medium armor is extremely important, or multiclass.
the base features of a subclass/class represent the basic things that subclass needs to function, or seem like that archetype.
and to be honest, they probably should never had baseline access to shields. No class, not even fighter, get baseline access to four d10+mod attacks while being able to get shield AC. And since eldritch blast one handed is baseline, shields probably shouldnt be baseline.
i dont think eldritch blast should be the most effective shield user
Giving Medium Armor and no shield proficiency seems the way to go.
Add in a Fighting Style, and you're good to go - you want more AC? Defense. More offense? Dueling or Great Weapon Fighting. More spell focused? Blessed Warrior. Heck, even Blindfighting or Interception could be viable options. And the cool thing? It's all customizable, which is the hallmark of the Warlock class.
I think that increased armor should have more of a cost than just getting it for free with a subclass. I'd rather that they revisit the old UA that provided increased armor via invocation, than just slap it on Hexblade. I should want to be a Hexblade because the subclass is cool and offers me neat features, rather than being a patch for gaining abilities that I should arguably be able to access through some other means other than multi-class.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
For those like me who think Hexblades should be able to use a shield but also like me are frustrated with the need to take a feat giving them armor training they already have to get shield training....
https://www.dndbeyond.com/feats/1813318-shielded
If the Hexblade isn’t meant to be a weapon focused subclass It doesn’t have a purpose at all. It would be like making a bladesinger that focused on singing. Making Hexblade focused only on hex is silly from my perspective.
I dont mind it being focused on hex; it needs to enhance hex though. Hex alone is simply not worth it. On my last warlock I quit casting it fairly soon because I had better things to use my spell slots/conc on. Make hex worth my time.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
BRING BACK HEXBLADE CURSE.....Please.......
Hexblade can absolutely be a viable and fun subclass in 2025. The 2024 core changes haven’t made Hexblade worse or obsolete in any meaningful way. What we need now is an update that addresses current issues and restores the subclass’s martial identity.
Baldur’s Gate 3 is a great example of how this can be done right—they implemented weapon mastery to the weapon and also tied the curse directly to the weapon, reinforcing the Hexblade’s unique flavor and playstyle.
To the D&D Beyond team: I sincerely hope you listen to the community and ensure that one of the game’s most popular Warlock subclasses doesn’t get left behind. The recent update to the Great Old One is a perfect example of how a thoughtful revision can bring a subclass back to life—we’d love to see the same care given to the Hexblade.
The D&D Beyond Team isn't developing the game. That would be the WOTC team.
So, common ground:
Weapon Mastery(1 choice)
Medium Armor
Shields
Less Hex Dependency
Am I correct?
DM, player & homebrewer(Current homebrew project is an unofficial conversion of SBURB/SGRUB from Homestuck into DND 5e)
Once made Maxwell's Silver Hammer come down upon Strahd's head to make sure he was dead.
Always study & sharpen philosophical razors. They save a lot of trouble.