My point with the second one is that Ribbon Features don't need to have combat applications to have a right to exist, but a lot of people seem to think that they should be deleted for exactly that reason.
Ribbon features should do something; it doesn't have to be a combat something, but it should at least be something that actually has some meaningful effect. The only ribbon feature I remember people complaining about losing was Tongue of the Sun and Moon -- and, well, by the time a party is 13th level, either the campaign doesn't do stuff with languages and the feature doesn't matter, or the PCs have already solved that problem ten levels ago and the feature barely does anything.
Regarding the third one:Easiest fix is to let players prep the stat blocks beforehand:That saves most people's issue. As for how to not bog down combat...it's really that simple:Have opponents target the character who's concentrating on the spells in question, & in general. It's a legit tactic.
Why yes, killing the summoner does prevent them from bogging down combat. So does fireballing all the summons before they ever get an action. So does anything else that means a summoner cannot actually summon anything. Basically, all you have to do to make summoners not bog down combat is... make playing a summoner so godawful to play that no-one plays one.
It was a selectively squicking idea.
I've found ways for ribbon features to be useful. But most people's issue is combat, so that's why people typically get critical(Minor Conjuration is AMAZING for social encounters, & Minor Alchemy saved my ass a few times)
I'm genuinely sorry if I struck a nerve. But what I've found is that the way to not bog down combat w/summons is to both have stat blocks prepped/accessible via a resource, and playing antagonists who'd realistically know that concentration is a thing as wanting to disrupt it. Barring that or targeting summons, I've found that, on a player's end, knowing what you're going to do with summons helps beforehand, which ties back into the prep angle.
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DM, player & homebrewer(Current homebrew project is an unofficial conversion of SBURB/SGRUB from Homestuck into DND 5e)
Once made Maxwell's Silver Hammer come down upon Strahd's head to make sure he was dead.
Always study & sharpen philosophical razors. They save a lot of trouble.
No matter how well you made a ribbon feature function for you it is still a ribbon. Someone else could try to do the same thing you did and just get shot down without a roll. Ribbons require DM fiat and are undefined in what they can do. That’s not good for new DMs or players. Players who game the game get far more out of ribbons than probably intended and many players ignore them all together. It’s not just about combat, but a feature needs to be defined in how it used in the game. If it’s a non combat feature it should be defined when I should be using it.
The revised UA Necromancer is much better. Also worth mentioning, for those enjoy using multiple undead, have your zombies give the help action in melee, use your skeletons as arches while also using them for 1/2 cover and let the other players roll to hit/damage to keep them in involved.
A ribbon feature is any feature that adds flavor more than actual mechanical substance. Typical they don’t work well in combat and you often have to manufacture reasons to use them outside of combat. Minor Alchemy and Minor Conjuration are the most well know. Minor conjuration goes out of its way to make sure you can’t conjure a usable weapon with it and every thing you conjure with it is noticeably magical. That means you can’t use it to trick people. The purpose of it is put a “ribbon” on your kit as a Conjuration Wizard. You can Conjure things a normal wizard couldn’t. Those things aren’t necessarily useful, but you can do it. The new UA Conjurer is awesome and doesn’t have the ribbon feature.
Make the familiar scale with Necromancer lvl. Find the sweet spot between weak and op. Now the new feature is good for npcs but I wonder what this zombie or skeleton is going to do in urban settings. It's flavorful true, but has no practical uses. Only downsides. And people saying it bogsdown combat, same can be said for people who want to seduce the dragon, swing on chandeliers and rule of cool everything. Or give ”ecromancers better undead but limit the amount, see leveled familiar. WotC and 5e players are afraid of Wizards.
I would like to preface this by saying that I know I'm not an expert and I don't think I know better than anyone else. I also favor flavor over optimizing but still like good balance. I understand that my view isn't the most powerfully amazing Necromancer but I feel that it's balanced and still can be fun and the new Necromancer should be balanced and good for flavor.
I like the way the Necromancer was first reworked for 5.5e. I immediately got a character idea that I loved. The second rework kind of ruined that. The main way its worse (at least for me) is the way Animate Undead replaces Summon Undead. I don't want to just summon Skeletons and Zombies, I'd like to be able to summon ghosts. Also my problem with Animate Dead is the fact that the DM has to provide you with corpses and it makes for a more clustered battlefield. Furthermore, it never looks good walking into a town with rotting corpses in tow. Why is that being force on me to have. Summon Undead is more open to interpretation.
I do like the Undead Familiar, except the Skeleton and Zombie part. They can't attack. So what's the point of them. Other familiars can recon or spy and have more utility. I would be fine with that if the normal familiars were also undead. They could be ghost, skeletons, zombie, etc. "Undead" could be anything. Ghost dog, zombie hawk, vampiric cat, skeleton rat and so on.
I would correct this sub class by making the above fix to Undead Familiar, keep Summon Undead but put Undead Fortitude and Withering Strike on it and remove the self heal part on Undead Tralls. Maybe you can also make two Summon Undeads by halfing the hit points of both. Reword Harvest Power to work with the first Grim Harvest. Aside from that, keep Necromancy Savant, Necromancy Spellbook, Grave Power, Undead Secrets, and Death's Master the same from the first version of the rework.
To summarize, I think a mix of both is fine. I like having the open interpretation of Summon Undead and Undead pets would be cool. I loved the original rework and the second version kind of killed my interest in it.
I do like the Undead Familiar, except the Skeleton and Zombie part. They can't attack. So what's the point of them. Other familiars can recon or spy and have more utility. I would be fine with that if the normal familiars were also undead. They could be ghost, skeletons, zombie, etc. "Undead" could be anything. Ghost dog, zombie hawk, vampiric cat, skeleton rat and so on.
I had completely forgotten about the clause in Find Familiar that says it can't attack!
Guess you can still use it for Harvest Undead for a rather expensive and very small bit of healing. Or for Death's Master to send it to it's death and make it explode for a massive 1d6 damage.
I'd also like to point out that I looked at the stats for Summon Undead and Animate Dead's Skeletons and Zombies. Summon Undead is better. Especially as you level up and up cast it. Skeletons and Zombies stay the same, the Undead Spirit can assume the form of a ghost, skeleton or zombie and up casting it makes it stronger. Up casting Animate Dead just makes more fragile skeleton and zombie. The base stats on Undead Spirit are better than the skeleton and zombie.
To put it plainly, Animate Dead just gives you more minions that aren't stronger than the Undead Spirit combined. That makes combat slow down and every time you need to get more you have to find a graveyard that your DM will hopefully give you.
Regardless you can still learn both spells, you just don't get the free cast of the one you don't get as part of Undead Thralls. I prefer Summon Undead but the second half of the Undead Thralls that gives you Animate Dead is better. It boosts all your Undead. The other Undead Thralls only works with Summon Undead.
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It was a selectively squicking idea.
I've found ways for ribbon features to be useful. But most people's issue is combat, so that's why people typically get critical(Minor Conjuration is AMAZING for social encounters, & Minor Alchemy saved my ass a few times)
I'm genuinely sorry if I struck a nerve. But what I've found is that the way to not bog down combat w/summons is to both have stat blocks prepped/accessible via a resource, and playing antagonists who'd realistically know that concentration is a thing as wanting to disrupt it. Barring that or targeting summons, I've found that, on a player's end, knowing what you're going to do with summons helps beforehand, which ties back into the prep angle.
DM, player & homebrewer(Current homebrew project is an unofficial conversion of SBURB/SGRUB from Homestuck into DND 5e)
Once made Maxwell's Silver Hammer come down upon Strahd's head to make sure he was dead.
Always study & sharpen philosophical razors. They save a lot of trouble.
No matter how well you made a ribbon feature function for you it is still a ribbon. Someone else could try to do the same thing you did and just get shot down without a roll. Ribbons require DM fiat and are undefined in what they can do. That’s not good for new DMs or players. Players who game the game get far more out of ribbons than probably intended and many players ignore them all together. It’s not just about combat, but a feature needs to be defined in how it used in the game. If it’s a non combat feature it should be defined when I should be using it.
The revised UA Necromancer is much better. Also worth mentioning, for those enjoy using multiple undead, have your zombies give the help action in melee, use your skeletons as arches while also using them for 1/2 cover and let the other players roll to hit/damage to keep them in involved.
I don't understand what a ribbon feature is?
A ribbon feature is any feature that adds flavor more than actual mechanical substance. Typical they don’t work well in combat and you often have to manufacture reasons to use them outside of combat. Minor Alchemy and Minor Conjuration are the most well know. Minor conjuration goes out of its way to make sure you can’t conjure a usable weapon with it and every thing you conjure with it is noticeably magical. That means you can’t use it to trick people. The purpose of it is put a “ribbon” on your kit as a Conjuration Wizard. You can Conjure things a normal wizard couldn’t. Those things aren’t necessarily useful, but you can do it. The new UA Conjurer is awesome and doesn’t have the ribbon feature.
Make the familiar scale with Necromancer lvl. Find the sweet spot between weak and op. Now the new feature is good for npcs but I wonder what this zombie or skeleton is going to do in urban settings. It's flavorful true, but has no practical uses. Only downsides. And people saying it bogsdown combat, same can be said for people who want to seduce the dragon, swing on chandeliers and rule of cool everything. Or give ”ecromancers better undead but limit the amount, see leveled familiar. WotC and 5e players are afraid of Wizards.
I was told you could use them for crafting which gives city value
I would like to preface this by saying that I know I'm not an expert and I don't think I know better than anyone else. I also favor flavor over optimizing but still like good balance. I understand that my view isn't the most powerfully amazing Necromancer but I feel that it's balanced and still can be fun and the new Necromancer should be balanced and good for flavor.
I like the way the Necromancer was first reworked for 5.5e. I immediately got a character idea that I loved. The second rework kind of ruined that. The main way its worse (at least for me) is the way Animate Undead replaces Summon Undead. I don't want to just summon Skeletons and Zombies, I'd like to be able to summon ghosts. Also my problem with Animate Dead is the fact that the DM has to provide you with corpses and it makes for a more clustered battlefield. Furthermore, it never looks good walking into a town with rotting corpses in tow. Why is that being force on me to have. Summon Undead is more open to interpretation.
I do like the Undead Familiar, except the Skeleton and Zombie part. They can't attack. So what's the point of them. Other familiars can recon or spy and have more utility. I would be fine with that if the normal familiars were also undead. They could be ghost, skeletons, zombie, etc. "Undead" could be anything. Ghost dog, zombie hawk, vampiric cat, skeleton rat and so on.
I would correct this sub class by making the above fix to Undead Familiar, keep Summon Undead but put Undead Fortitude and Withering Strike on it and remove the self heal part on Undead Tralls. Maybe you can also make two Summon Undeads by halfing the hit points of both. Reword Harvest Power to work with the first Grim Harvest. Aside from that, keep Necromancy Savant, Necromancy Spellbook, Grave Power, Undead Secrets, and Death's Master the same from the first version of the rework.
To summarize, I think a mix of both is fine. I like having the open interpretation of Summon Undead and Undead pets would be cool. I loved the original rework and the second version kind of killed my interest in it.
I had completely forgotten about the clause in Find Familiar that says it can't attack!
Guess you can still use it for Harvest Undead for a rather expensive and very small bit of healing. Or for Death's Master to send it to it's death and make it explode for a massive 1d6 damage.
Yeah....
I'd also like to point out that I looked at the stats for Summon Undead and Animate Dead's Skeletons and Zombies. Summon Undead is better. Especially as you level up and up cast it. Skeletons and Zombies stay the same, the Undead Spirit can assume the form of a ghost, skeleton or zombie and up casting it makes it stronger. Up casting Animate Dead just makes more fragile skeleton and zombie. The base stats on Undead Spirit are better than the skeleton and zombie.
To put it plainly, Animate Dead just gives you more minions that aren't stronger than the Undead Spirit combined. That makes combat slow down and every time you need to get more you have to find a graveyard that your DM will hopefully give you.
Regardless you can still learn both spells, you just don't get the free cast of the one you don't get as part of Undead Thralls. I prefer Summon Undead but the second half of the Undead Thralls that gives you Animate Dead is better. It boosts all your Undead. The other Undead Thralls only works with Summon Undead.