I am actually a fan of the Wondrous Invention feature of the 2017 Artificer UA. Text from the feature states... "When you gain a magic item from this feature, it reflects long hours of study, tinkering, and experimentation that allowed you to finally complete the item. You are assumed to work on this item in your leisure time and to finish it when you level up."
The instantaneous crafting is one of the reasons why I don't like the Infuse Item feature of the 2019 Artificer UA. There is no crafting, you just touch a nonmagical item after a long sleep and poof you have a magic item.
I completely agree. 2017's wonderous invention, while it was limited (perhaps overly so) for balance reasons and the power of at-will selection of magic gear, was substantially better than the infusions mechanic. In fact, aside from the mechanical servant that doesn't really tie into the class at all, I had no complaints about the 2017 artificer.
You may not be aware of the 3 major No Go feedbacks for the 2017 Artificer: (For context there maybe outliers and you may be one of them but WOTC has to listen to the overwhelming majority as anyone disagreeing can always rule differently but that should be minority)
1. Wonderous Invention included Items that had charges, it was literally the only feature that eventually completely disappeared for you. EG imagine if Warlock’s Hexblade curse said “You can cast this Charisma times in your life! never recharging...”
Also it even held high risk as you could be disarmed of the items permanently, which is a high probability for an Artificer, Imagine if Warlock’s Pact of the Blade said “You have a Pact Weapon which does amazing magic cool stuff, if ever disarmed of it Haha you idiot you don’t get anything anymore”
Most people just wanted a small change along the lines of “You are a master at creating X item, you get it now and if it ever runs out of charges or you are disarmed of it you can recraft within one week/long rest” (again imagine Pact Weapon took a Week! to bond a new weapon....) But this runs into realism issues (why not craft many, etc) and that is how we got current Infuse Items, every long rest, with more use of magic to solve the issues.
2. Infuse Magic/Spell Storing Item. These were well received in general but playtested badly, the spell slot spent before combat meant you cut your own spell casting ability off in combat. While by instinct it felt like it was increasing the versatility of the Artificer or at least the group he was in it actually vastly decreased the Artificers versatility while giving his group a minor boost in Group versatility.
And in addressing the main comparison, It’s not just Team dependant like Bardic Inspiration because that at least doesn’t take anything away from your team members, just pure benefit as it doesn’t take up any of the users resources. While SSI takes their action, and a martial class already has a lot of options of what to do with their action. IE. SSI for Artificer reduces options by 50% while SSI for holder only increases options by 20%.
As there were many solutions proposed in this thread I won’t list them but the solution has to do something along the lines of don’t use spell slot until SSI used. And 2019 solution was just horrible, they felt it was a headache so effectively remove SSI, you can’t just show us such a goldmine of opportunity and then take it away and think we won’t mind.
3. Subclasses, they were just very poorly written and way too overtuned to a point no other feature was. For Gunsmith you had some number change at 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, 15, 17, 19 and multiple feature updating at every level. They needed to tighten it up a lot. Same for Alchemist, and if you look closely it is just equal to Sneak Attack... a rewrite or Rogue mechanics does not deserve its own class.
While the theme seemed fun there was not one out of combat feature, you don’t actually feel like an Alchemist by choosing the subclass just by your choices in core which you can still choose while being a Gunsmith. And the theme was so in your face you couldn’t escape it into a proper fantasy world like you can with most other classes (except somewhat Monks)
In Conclusion please if you mention one of the above 3, give it some extra thought in case you didn’t realise one of the above. (I didn’t realise the SSI issue till DnDPaladin spelled it out to me early in this thread) And add a few suggestions on how you would fix the issues as the 2017 version is not good enough. Thanks
I think this is just one of those things that's going to be entirely at the hands of the DM. For my table, I am planning on having moments of extended downtime for the PCs (I'm having it right now that the BBEG is operating on information roughly equivalent to what the players have) but I've seen others where the DM has made it clear that the BBEG is operating nonstop, and if the players want to stop them from getting even more powerful and destroying the PC's allies, then they'd better keep up.
Downtime has never been an issue in my campaigns unless the player's themselves insist on rushing things.
In my campaigns I have made a Battle-Smith variant which gets a suit of arcano-mechanical armor instead of the pet. The armor is based on the pet instead of the one from the School of Invention from UA.
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Watch your back, conserve your ammo, and NEVER cut a deal with a dragon!
I'm not disagreeing with anyone, I'm just saying the pace really does depend on the DM, and not on the players.
"As you arrive back from your latest adventure, a messenger arrives with urgent notice that your allies in Suchandsuchtown are in need of your assistance." "Well, before we move onto there, I was hoping my fighter could use the iron we got from our last adventure to craft himself a new set of plate armor." "Fine. You spend two months crafting a set of sturdy and well made plate armor, and Suchandsuchtown has fallen and become infested with vampires during the meantime and all of your allies are dead." ".......huh?"
In terms of downtime: as Mezzurah said, DM dependent. In his given example the DM comes off as a dick, but it's also quite possible that the game could've played out with the DM using several methods of messaging to his players "this is urgent. It's happening now, and every day you dawdle I'm going to roll the Apocalypse Dice to see who lives." The initial messenger, news elsewhere of Evil Forces moving in the area of Suchandsuchtown, foreboding visions delivered to the party's clerics, palladalladingdongs or warlocks. If the players decide to take two months' downtime to build some platemail when they've got that sort of messaging going on, or if their campaign has previously been on the faster-paced, get-your-shit-and-go sort? Then the DM isn't being an ******* when the players show up two months later and Suchandsuchtown has fallen to the vampires.
He told you, the players, that would happen if you didn't get your asses in gear.
Nevertheless. Back on the original topic...the artificer has to be able to work at whatever pace the DM sets. Infuse Item works for that because you get one long rest per day unless you're on a real Death March, so the DM can't say 'you have no time'. And to be fair, Arutha is quite correct. Wondrous Invention was unacceptable as a class feature for the reasons he laid out. If, as a player, you're in a position where your game moves fast and you generally can't afford more than a few days of downtime at a time? Ask your DM if you can try and rush whatever you're crafting, do it in significantly less time at the cost of having to pass a skill check (or several) to accomplish in days what takes others weeks.
Which, by the way, is a great reason to have tool expertise, as well as a great potential set-up for an Awesome Moment.
Player: "I know building this +2 MacGuffin is supposed to take three weeks. I want to do it in three days." DM: "Hmm. Normally that would be impossible...but you are an artificer, I suppose. All right. You won't be able to sleep while you're working on this, and anything your party can do to boost you will only work for one roll since this is spreading their efforts out over three days, too. You'll have to eat three levels of exhaustion to even make the attempt, and anyone who helps you has to eat a level of exhaustion too, to represent you pushing them as well as yourself. This is going to be a pretty ugly skill challenge. Do you do it?" Player: "Damn right I do. Bring it, Big Man. These tools were made for makin', and that's just what they'll do." Cue the Iron Man Building The Armor montage and a tense skill challenge to see if the artificer can beat the odds and save the party two and a half weeks.
Depending on what you're trying to build, how important it is, and how much time you're trying to slice off, this would absolutely qualify as an encounter on its own. I'm recalling the forging of the Prime Trammels in CR; that was purely a tools and ability challenge, and it was awesome. There's no reason an artificer can't strive for the same, ne?
Yes I prefer 4-5 arcs to level 20 but usually each arc takes just a couple of days to a week, and crafting in between depending on the next BBEG.
I don’t usually have a BBEG last long unless he is a political one. Imagine if in the Avengers it took them a month to stop Loki or Ultron, instead have gaps between BBEGs.
it actually took them weeks to get to ultron ! in movies or cinematics they usually dont give you any indication of time, but characters suddently being in literally other places the next scene makes no sense and is a way to pass time, aka Downtimes !
exemple, your bbeg is a figther, can't always be a wizard right ? without any teleportation methods, he has to travel still, thats downtime. the same happens in movies, where you see not the downtime, it is there as scenes breaks off. they are not simulataneously happenning with characters suddently teleporting to the next scene. the same is true for transformations. people in power rangers have been degrading the fact that power rangers takes a hell of along time transforming and the enemy just stand there. but reality is... they are not transforming one at a time either, they are all transforming at the same time, yet for show, we see each one hapenning independently. that is also a time stretching moment.
Fact is, may it be in video games or movies, there is always a downtime somewhere, may it be shown to the public, or hidden. but it is always there. the exemple of the DM who says his villain is always actively trying to dominate the world or do his things... of course he is, but he still requires to move, he still requires to eat or drink, he still requires sleeping time. your bbeg is not actively using every single nano seconds of his life toward his very goal. otherwise there is no reasons for your players to hunt a god they can't stop in time. may you want it or not, your bbeg uses the downtime as well. may it be to read informations or receive brifings by his spies, it is downtimes !
sorry but any DMs who tells me the world is in danger every single seconds of his world. i'd say... you need more then 1 band of adventurer man, you need a god to take this quest. someone who can stop evil every seconds.
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I thought we were drawing a distinction between travel time and downtime. A lot of crafting wouldn’t be possible while travelling. Take Mezzurah’s example slightly edited:
Someone wants to craft plate armor but as soon as the party arrive home they receive a letter an army is moving to a strategic village. Either they start moving now for 2 weeks travel time or wait 2 weeks and 2 weeks travel time and be late.
Building plate armor on the go is very unrealistic, only really Tinkering is likely to work on the go and even that would work better at a workshop.
I just never run a bad guy who acts before every aspect of his plan is complete and has 2-3 back up plans. Ie. Thanos. You could say he was BBEG since Avengers but he never showed himself and retreated. And no temp bad guy ever stopped for spy info, Ultron had all internet knowledge before moving and Loki had a goal tesseract open portal.
For a final bit of context on how I get around these issues in my next planned game:
1. I have been editing the Stars without Number Faction turns to a Fantasy setting, where monthly each faction will be moving or trying to do something that the players will only hear in rumours, like the above moving army.
2. I want to run a hybrid West Marches game even if I only have one player group, I make each person create two or more characters and rotate them in a final fantasy group composition. Eg party A go raid a dungeon in the mean time X faction is doing Y thing so party B have to go fix it.
I expect there will be at least one Artificer in group B, but he will have to get levels to keep up crafting: ie he has to be lvl10+ to make rares.I’ll also likely give them airships similar to FF9 so they can craft on the move, which are just 3 times faster than walking (where horses are 2 times).
You all act as if those villains you speak were ready to go as soon as they were able to... Thanos had a lot of complications and had to wait often. Youve seen that since the first avengers.
Loki had the same problems... Again youve seen that way before avengers.
Ultron didnt instantly know everything. If he did wed have had the real age of ultron like the comics where he actually defeats the avengers. They greatly diminished ultron in the movie.
If you think bbeg dont have downtimes... Your call... But mines have and players have time to deal with them or get something going. Those who always put pressure by adding a timer really just want the story to move on without players doing their things. Timers are great... But its not all there is to adventuring. Exploration is where its at and exploration cannot happens if you always force the players into rushing your bbeg.
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So this isn't a solution to an underlying issue on whether or not a DM is giving players a reasonable amount of downtime, but more of a trick the artificer might use to eke out extra days/hours/minutes of crafting in the face of travel times. It comes at the cost of splitting the party (almost never a good idea), can't be done at level one and there are likely much better methods (like some kind of mobile workshop). This is just something I started thinking about while reading this discussion.
Many-Handed Pouch plus Gaseous Form (or Enlarge/Reduce if you're a small race, or Polymorph if you have it, etc). The pouch works to transfer items across a distance of 100 miles. It could just as easily transfer a living creature sized or formed appropriately.
As long as the straight line distance is less than 100 miles or maybe 500 miles with multiple many-handed pouches chained in sequence (or even farther using a certain RAW exploit) an Artificer can join the party later on in the journey by just turning themselves into a gas and wafting through a bag. All that's needed is to just send a note through the pouch to say they are needed.
Travel Pace states a normal pace covers a distance of roughly 24 miles per day so at the end of day 4 the party will have traveled 96 miles giving The Artificer in this scenario an extra 4 days of crafting time. That's almost an entire workweek which is even more significant with subclass faster crafting.
At level 14 an Archivist can keep one infused item at home, one on a party member and just commute as needed instantly regardless of distance. Granted at that point the party's methods of travel may well have changed to be drastically different and travel times might be almost non-existant.
my beef with all of this is that most of the feedback they received, is from conceived kids/adults who were abused by video games where crafting is instantaneous. so thats what they want, instant magical gears to get best in slots, because thats what video games do. pushing this game into a whole new, video game vibe where the game can be finished in one sessions and we can go to the next content. where the game is really a simulation game about adventuring where a campaign isn't just 1 adventure, its numerous adventures. unlike in video games where your world is constantly in danger... the one these adventurers live in isn't. there isn't a mage or necromancer every single villages. often time adventurers travels and can pass days without finding anything of value. making their money go down because they are not finding the next fix.
but most people just want the aretificer to be like in 3e where they could just craft all the best in slot for the group on the go as they were adventuring. because thats what they were trained to do. find gear, trade it for better gear. they stumble as soon as you tell them no because the merchant knows what he has in his pocket. it leads to applayers strickly wanting to kill your NPC to get their stuff instead. showing even more that they care for nothing of your world. they just want the loot and gear.
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Look, Paladin. If you want eighty percent of your adventure to be downtime makework or uneventful travel montages, go for it. It's your table, run it any way you please and if your players are on board then more power to ya. But yelling at everyone else who wants their class features to be class features, the same as every other class, instead of items that can be broken, stolen, or simply CONSUMED THROUGH ORDINARY USE that they're being a bunch of entitled vidya-gaem brats is counterproductive. Some tables want a sense of tension at the table, a sense that the world is alive and changing even when they're not directly engaging with it, rather than spending a year of downtime faffing off between every basic dungeon delve.
There isn't a black mage or necromancer in every podunk village, no. There's no evil chromatic dragon at the bottom of every hole in the ground, no lich lurking in every abandoned keep. But there absolutely are black mages, necromancers, chromatic dragons, or liches out there. And if'n you adventuring lot don't go and find them, they're gonna find you, and you'll be the worse off for it.
I have no desire for an artificer to be able to craft "best in slot gear" (what does that even mean in D&D, anyways?) without putting best-in-slot effort into it. Nobody crafts a Staff of the Magus in the back of a wagon between cave dives, and nobody wants to except idiots. What everybody else in this thread wants is a class that feels fun, exciting, and most of all complete to play. If you hate it so much, use the 2017 rules. They're still out there.
The rest of us are going to hope the artificer gets better instead of worse.
Yurei... seriously... i have not said a word about any of what you said. i simply said that what most people want here, exemple fo the new artificer who made the cut... is that they do not want any wait whatsoever in the creation of things. and the only answer i have gotten about crafting is always the same, change the system cause it doesn't work. while on the contrary it works like a charm. it sjust that people do not like downtimes.
as for me going all the way downtimes by 80% of my games... how would you know that if not for the fact its false... much like adventurers league, my downtimes are at the end of an adventure. i consider the charcaters to have a few weeks in between adventures depending on the situation they left the adventure in or where they go next. and i allow them to do stuff during that downtime. i suggest you go read downtimes, there is a lot of information in that section about how character can just do stuff including potions of healing for themselves with the herbs kit. what i do is exactly what downtime is reffered to. but by what people tell me in this thread, and i'm just interpretting it that way... they are playing video games where something happens every seconds of the game. with no time for healing, no time for sleep, no time for anything. just pure actions and adventure at all times.
just saying here, this game is not a video game, nor is it a movie. unlike movies, the players actually affect the scenes by their ideas, and unlike a video game, the players are not limited to anything. if they want to pee on the NPC they can, if they want to behead the NPC they can, if they want to throw a barrel of monkey at a bunch of goblins, they can.
but downtimes is downtimes, and downtimes is the time between adventures. that time is necessary and encompasses everything including travel times. passing thru local villages as you go, buying more rations and the likes. i highly suggest people stop bypassing that section, there is a lot of information about how the game works during such downtimes.
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Yurei it is best to agree with DnDPaladin in the end, he does tend to play reasonably differently from a more generalist approach, but in no way does that make his way any more wrong than ours. In fact it guaranteed is a more old school way of play and it is nice to have that moderator voice in the debate.
In conclusion I do think there is a perfect place for the rules as written crafting as an aside benefit however I know that anyone that builds a character around it is bound for disappointment specifically because he only gets to play when the rest of his group are not playing. And building a class around the rules as written just means that 1/13 of the player base “only get to play when the rest of the group are not playing.”
In my opinion the Artificer Should be Prodigy level of crafting, not just double but 1 long rest as long as you get your hands on materials, and I know that is gamey but that’s what people sign up for when they invest everything into being a crafter. And if you craft something you never have before you lose a point of exhaustion for the rush. Just let it be gamey otherwise it becomes pure magical.
But at this point I am not trying to convince anyone just throwing out opinions and ideas, and happy to discuss other aspects to see if there is a different POV I haven’t considered on something in Artificer.
Then why the hell do you keep sassing people in this thread about being stupid brain-derp vidya gaem zombie people who expect 'instant' crafting? if you hand out fat chunks of downtime at the end of every session and expect your players to tell you what they do with them at the start of the next, what does it matter how the crafting rules work? Your players are 'instantly' crafting in the sense that they tell you what they want, you tell them what to roll and what happens when they succeed/fail, and then bookkeeping's done huzzah. If it takes three months of in-game time, who cares - it took ten minutes of session time. Which is, by the way, the same assumption many of the Vidya Gaems you keep sassing make, they just don't spell it out.
Are you seriously just peeved by the fact that Infuse Item doesn't create single permanent objects at set character levels anymore? That was a terrible waste of character levels, and as has been pointed out it was equivalent to other class features simply disappearing forever through normal play. Imagine if your wizard could only ever use his ninth-level spell slot once EVER, and then it was expended and would never recharge again. That would feel like a horrible waste of a class level, ne?
Otherwise I have no idea why you're on this giant crusade against tension when you are admitting that you handle downtime the same way everyone else does - i.e. doling it out between sessions and saving precious game time for actual adventuring - and don't really care which crafting rules are in effect?
"Imagine if your wizard could only ever use his ninth-level spell slot once EVER, and then it was expended and would never recharge again."
Yurei, I think you've summed up my feelings about the Wish spell perfectly, lol.
In seriousness though, we're all arguing over something that is entirely subjective and in the hands of the DM, and probably also the setting depending on its levels of magic or tech. There's a lot of leeway for us to go about it here, and if the Artificer is coming out in a new book based on the Eberron setting, then that might be a good opportunity for WotC to go about introducing new crafting rules for a high magitech setting such as that where you can go crafting a set of plate armor in a way that's expedited.
I understand the point you are trying to make. However, what you are wanting out of spell storing makes it sound overpowered in my opinion. You need to think of Spell Storing as a modified version of the 3rd level spell Glyph of Warding (Spell Glyph). The first sentence for Spell Glyph states... "You can store a prepared spell of 3rd level or lower in the glyph by casting it as part of creating the glyph." You need to cast that spell in conjunction with casting Glyph of Warding. So you are using two spell slots.
Spell Storing allows you to imbue the arcane properties of a spell into a nonmagical object that can be used at a latter time. In order to imbue those properties you will need to cast the spell. But what you are talking about is essentially using that nonmagical item that has a spell stored in it as a remote control to activate the spell. This way the Artificer still has the spell slot if they need it.
What if the player with the nonmagical item that has been imbued with a spell uses it and the Artificer doesn't know about? Then the Artificer thinks they have three 1st level spell slots in reality they have two. Or the Artificer uses up all their 1st level spell slots and the character that was given the nonmagical item that has been imbued with a 1st level spell and tries to use it but they can't because the spell slot is gone.
At least with the spell slot being used in conjunction with using spell storing, you will not run into the above situation.
The Artificer is not supposed to be a 100% spellcaster. Spellcasting is supposed to be an ability that assists the Artificer. The Artificer has subclasses that contain abilities that aid them in combat. If you want to rely on the spellcasting ability when you are in combat, they maybe you should play a cleric, sorcerer, or wizard. They have plenty of spell slots and access to plenty of direct damaging spells.
I am actually a fan of the Wondrous Invention feature of the 2017 Artificer UA. Text from the feature states... "When you gain a magic item from this feature, it reflects long hours of study, tinkering, and experimentation that allowed you to finally complete the item. You are assumed to work on this item in your leisure time and to finish it when you level up."
The instantaneous crafting is one of the reasons why I don't like the Infuse Item feature of the 2019 Artificer UA. There is no crafting, you just touch a nonmagical item after a long sleep and poof you have a magic item.
I completely agree. 2017's wonderous invention, while it was limited (perhaps overly so) for balance reasons and the power of at-will selection of magic gear, was substantially better than the infusions mechanic. In fact, aside from the mechanical servant that doesn't really tie into the class at all, I had no complaints about the 2017 artificer.
You may not be aware of the 3 major No Go feedbacks for the 2017 Artificer: (For context there maybe outliers and you may be one of them but WOTC has to listen to the overwhelming majority as anyone disagreeing can always rule differently but that should be minority)
1. Wonderous Invention included Items that had charges, it was literally the only feature that eventually completely disappeared for you. EG imagine if Warlock’s Hexblade curse said “You can cast this Charisma times in your life! never recharging...”
Also it even held high risk as you could be disarmed of the items permanently, which is a high probability for an Artificer, Imagine if Warlock’s Pact of the Blade said “You have a Pact Weapon which does amazing magic cool stuff, if ever disarmed of it Haha you idiot you don’t get anything anymore”
Most people just wanted a small change along the lines of “You are a master at creating X item, you get it now and if it ever runs out of charges or you are disarmed of it you can recraft within one week/long rest” (again imagine Pact Weapon took a Week! to bond a new weapon....) But this runs into realism issues (why not craft many, etc) and that is how we got current Infuse Items, every long rest, with more use of magic to solve the issues.
2. Infuse Magic/Spell Storing Item. These were well received in general but playtested badly, the spell slot spent before combat meant you cut your own spell casting ability off in combat. While by instinct it felt like it was increasing the versatility of the Artificer or at least the group he was in it actually vastly decreased the Artificers versatility while giving his group a minor boost in Group versatility.
And in addressing the main comparison, It’s not just Team dependant like Bardic Inspiration because that at least doesn’t take anything away from your team members, just pure benefit as it doesn’t take up any of the users resources. While SSI takes their action, and a martial class already has a lot of options of what to do with their action. IE. SSI for Artificer reduces options by 50% while SSI for holder only increases options by 20%.
As there were many solutions proposed in this thread I won’t list them but the solution has to do something along the lines of don’t use spell slot until SSI used. And 2019 solution was just horrible, they felt it was a headache so effectively remove SSI, you can’t just show us such a goldmine of opportunity and then take it away and think we won’t mind.
3. Subclasses, they were just very poorly written and way too overtuned to a point no other feature was. For Gunsmith you had some number change at 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, 15, 17, 19 and multiple feature updating at every level. They needed to tighten it up a lot. Same for Alchemist, and if you look closely it is just equal to Sneak Attack... a rewrite or Rogue mechanics does not deserve its own class.
While the theme seemed fun there was not one out of combat feature, you don’t actually feel like an Alchemist by choosing the subclass just by your choices in core which you can still choose while being a Gunsmith. And the theme was so in your face you couldn’t escape it into a proper fantasy world like you can with most other classes (except somewhat Monks)
In Conclusion please if you mention one of the above 3, give it some extra thought in case you didn’t realise one of the above. (I didn’t realise the SSI issue till DnDPaladin spelled it out to me early in this thread) And add a few suggestions on how you would fix the issues as the 2017 version is not good enough. Thanks
I will be one of the first ones to say that the 2017 Artificer UA was flawed and overpowered.
1. Wondrous Invention while a great idea was extremely limited. That is why I played around with it and wrote this way...
Wondrous Invention - At 2nd level, you gain the use of a magic item that you crafted. Choose an item from the list of common or uncommon magic items (DM discretion).
Crafting a magic item is a difficult task. When you gain a magic item from this feature, it reflects long hours of study, tinkering and experimentation that allowed you to finally complete the item. You are assumed to work on this item in your leisure time and to finish it when you level up. Due to your training, crafting times and costs for common through rare magic items are halved. These magic items are detailed in the Dungeon Master’s Guide & Xanathar’s Guide to Everything.
You complete another magical item of your choice when you reach certain levels in this class: 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th (uncommon items at 5th level, rare at 10th and very rare at 15th). The item you choose must be of the specified rarity level or lower (DM discretion). Additional magic items can be created but crafting times and costs are normal.
I wrote my version of Wondrous Invention in this way as it expanded on the number of magic items that can be crafted and it allowed the DM to have a say in what items they would allow. Also, the rarity level increased as you gained experience. I never liked the fact that you had to be level 20 in order to craft Eyes of the Eagle (2017 Artificer UA).
2. Infuse Magic/ Spell Storing was also extremely limited and here is my take on it.....
Spell Storing - At 3 level, you gain the ability to channel your artificer spells into objects for later use. When you cast an Artificer spell (1 level or higher) with a casting time of 1 action, bonus action or reaction, you can increase its casting time to 1 minute. If you do and hold a nonmagical item throughout the casting, you expend a spell slot, but none of the spell’s effects occur. Instead, the spell transfers into that item for later use (if the item doesn’t already contain a spell from this feature).
Any creature holding the item thereafter can use an action, bonus action, or reaction (depending on the spell) to activate the spell (if the creature has an Intelligence score of at least 6). The spell is cast using your spellcasting ability. If the spell targets more than one creature, the creature that activates the item selects the additional targets. If the spell has an area of effect, it is centered on the item. If the spell’s range is self, it targets the creature that activates the item.
When you infuse a spell in this way, it must be used before the beginning of your next long rest. After that time, its magic fades and is wasted. You can have a limited number of infused spells at the same time. You gain additional spells stored when you reach certain levels in this class, as shown in the Spells Stored Column of the Artificer table (3rd - 6th 2 spells, 7th - 11th 3 spells, 12th - 16th 4 spells, and 17th and up 5 spells).
I wrote Spell Storing like this to make it more viable without being overpowered (my version of the Artificer doesn't have direct damaging or healing spells).
3. The subclasses from the 2017 Artificer UA was extremely overpowered. Depending on the Alchemical Formula, the Alchemist could do up to 10d6 damage or restore 10d8 hit points. The Gunsmith could also deal up to 11d6 damage with a single shot. Also, the Alchemist never ran out of raw alchemical components and the gunsmith didn't need any raw materials to craft ammunition. Below are my takes on both of these issues.
Alchemist - Alchemist’s Satchel. You craft an Alchemist’s Satchel, a bag of reagents that you use to create a variety of concoctions. The bag weighs 5 pounds and both the bag and its contents are magical. This magic allows you to pull out exactly the right materials you need for your Alchemical Formulas (described below). After you use one of those formulas the materials are spent (only you can pull anything from the satchel, to everyone else it is an empty satchel).
If you lose this satchel, you can create a new one over the course of three days of work (8 hours each day) by expending 100gp worth of leather, glass, and other raw materials. Once every thirty days, 15 pounds of alchemy components needs to be added to the bag.
Formulas (examples)
Alchemical Acid. As an action, you can reach into your Alchemist’s Satchel, pull out a vial of acid, and hurl the vial at a creature or object within range of you (the vial and its contents disappear if you don’t hurl the vial by the end of the current turn). Make a ranged attack against the target. On a hit, the vial shatters. The creature and/or object takes 2d6 acid damage. An object automatically takes max damage.
At 7th level you can expend a 2nd level spell slot as you pull a vial from your satchel to increase damage to 3d6, at 11th level you can expend a 3rd level spell slot to increase the damage to 4d6, at 15th level you can expend a 4th level spell to increase the damage to 5d6, and at 19th level you can expend a 5th level spell slot to increase the damage to 6d6.
Healing Draught. As an action, you can reach into your Alchemist’s Satchel and pull out a vial of healing liquid. A creature can drink it as an action to regain 2d8 hit points. The vial then disappears. Once a creature regains hit points from this alchemical formula, the creature can’t do so again until it finishes a short rest. If not used, the vial and its contents disappear after 1 hour. While the vial exists, you can’t use this formula.
At 7th level you can expend a 2nd level spell slot as you pull a vial from your satchel to increase the healing draught to 3d8, at 11th level you can expend a 3rd level spell slot to increase it to 4d8, at 15th level you can expend a 4th level spell to increase it to 5d8, and at 19th level you can expend a 5th level spell slot to increase it to 6d8.
In both of the above examples the formulas do a base amount of damage or restore hit points. But to increase the damage or restore more hit point, a spell slot would need to be used. Also, I required additional alchemy components to be added to the Alchemist's bag, to show use.
Gunsmith - Arcane Magazine. At 3 level, you craft a leather satchel that weigh 10 pounds. It is used to carry your tools and ammunition for your Thunder Cannon. Your Arcane Magazine includes the powders, lead shot, and other materials needed to keep that weapon functioning (it holds 40 rounds of ammunition). You can use the Arcane Magazine to produce ammunition for your gun. At the end of each long rest, you can magically produce up to 40 rounds of ammunition with this magazine. At the end of a short rest, you can produce 10 rounds. If you lose your Arcane Magazine, you can create a new one as part of a long rest, using 25gp of leather and other raw materials. Once every thirty days, 10 pounds of raw material needs to be added to the bag.
Thunder Cannon - At 3rd level, you forge a deadly firearm using a combination of arcane magic and your knowledge of engineering and metallurgy. This firearm is called a Thunder Cannon. It is a ferocious weapon that fires leaden projectiles that can punch through armor with ease. You are proficient with the Thunder Cannon. The firearm is a two-handed ranged weapon weighing 5 pounds that deals 2d6 piercing damage and has a normal range of 150 feet and maximum range of 500 feet. Once fired, an action must be used to reload the Thunder Cannon.
Thunder Monger - At 3rd level, you learn to channel thunder energy into your Thunder Cannon. As an action, you can expend a 1 level spell slot to make this special attack with your Thunder Cannon that deals an extra 1d6 thunder damage on a hit.
At 7th level you can expend a 2nd level spell slot to increase the damage to 2d6, at 11th level you can expend a 3rd level spell slot to increase the damage to 4d6, at 15th level you can expend a 4th level spell to increase the damage to 6d6, and at 19th level you can expend a 5th level spell slot to increase the damage to 8d6.
Piercing Round - Starting at 14th level, you can shoot lightning energy through your Thunder Cannon. As an action, you can expend a 4th level spell slot to make this special attack with it. Rather than making an attack roll, you cause the gun to unleash a bolt of lightning, 30-feet long and 5-feet wide. Each creature in that area must make a Dexterity saving throw. A creature takes 6d6 lightning damage on a failed save and half as much on a successful one. At 19th level you can expend a 5th level spell slot the damage increases to 8d6. The lightning ignites flammable objects in the area that aren’t being worn or carried.
The above information for the Alchemist and Gunsmith is how I see them and while I provided example for both subclasses, they are balances in similar ways.
My takes on Wondrous Inventions, Infuse Magic/Spell Storing & the 2 subclasses are just MY views on balancing them. I don't expect anyone or everyone to agree with what I did. Again, these are just my takes on the issues you brought up.
Thinking about it, I have come to the conclusion that the subclass should be chosen at level 1 granting them the tools of the trade for that subclass. but have them gain the rest of the subclasses abilities at level 3, this has no effect on infusions gained at level 2 of course. I thought this thinking how like the battlesmith when they choose it at level 3 boom they gain martial weapon proficiency and the ability to use Int as a modifier for physical attacks. With this they won't get the defender till level 3, but will be more combat oriented from level 1. Then for example the Alchemist is doing his stuff and can create his familiar at level 3, and along those lines for each of the subclasses.
Thinking about it, I have come to the conclusion that the subclass should be chosen at level 1 granting them the tools of the trade for that subclass. but have them gain the rest of the subclasses abilities at level 3, this has no effect on infusions gained at level 2 of course. I thought this thinking how like the battlesmith when they choose it at level 3 boom they gain martial weapon proficiency and the ability to use Int as a modifier for physical attacks. With this they won't get the defender till level 3, but will be more combat oriented from level 1. Then for example the Alchemist is doing his stuff and can create his familiar at level 3, and along those lines for each of the subclasses.
This has been my thought since the beginning. Though, I also think they should get the I infusions at level 1 and spellcasting at level 2 (like a normal half caster) along with their subclass spells. They can still get cantrips at level 1 (through a feature not named spellcasting) or cantrips can be limited to certain subclasses.
Has anyone else noticed that when you multiclass Artificer with another spellcaster you round your Artificer class levels UP for the purposes of spell slots? That's an interesting difference from the other half casters, in my opinion.
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Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
You may not be aware of the 3 major No Go feedbacks for the 2017 Artificer: (For context there maybe outliers and you may be one of them but WOTC has to listen to the overwhelming majority as anyone disagreeing can always rule differently but that should be minority)
1. Wonderous Invention included Items that had charges, it was literally the only feature that eventually completely disappeared for you. EG imagine if Warlock’s Hexblade curse said “You can cast this Charisma times in your life! never recharging...”
Also it even held high risk as you could be disarmed of the items permanently, which is a high probability for an Artificer, Imagine if Warlock’s Pact of the Blade said “You have a Pact Weapon which does amazing magic cool stuff, if ever disarmed of it Haha you idiot you don’t get anything anymore”
Most people just wanted a small change along the lines of “You are a master at creating X item, you get it now and if it ever runs out of charges or you are disarmed of it you can recraft within one week/long rest” (again imagine Pact Weapon took a Week! to bond a new weapon....) But this runs into realism issues (why not craft many, etc) and that is how we got current Infuse Items, every long rest, with more use of magic to solve the issues.
2. Infuse Magic/Spell Storing Item. These were well received in general but playtested badly, the spell slot spent before combat meant you cut your own spell casting ability off in combat. While by instinct it felt like it was increasing the versatility of the Artificer or at least the group he was in it actually vastly decreased the Artificers versatility while giving his group a minor boost in Group versatility.
And in addressing the main comparison, It’s not just Team dependant like Bardic Inspiration because that at least doesn’t take anything away from your team members, just pure benefit as it doesn’t take up any of the users resources. While SSI takes their action, and a martial class already has a lot of options of what to do with their action. IE. SSI for Artificer reduces options by 50% while SSI for holder only increases options by 20%.
As there were many solutions proposed in this thread I won’t list them but the solution has to do something along the lines of don’t use spell slot until SSI used. And 2019 solution was just horrible, they felt it was a headache so effectively remove SSI, you can’t just show us such a goldmine of opportunity and then take it away and think we won’t mind.
3. Subclasses, they were just very poorly written and way too overtuned to a point no other feature was. For Gunsmith you had some number change at 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, 15, 17, 19 and multiple feature updating at every level. They needed to tighten it up a lot. Same for Alchemist, and if you look closely it is just equal to Sneak Attack... a rewrite or Rogue mechanics does not deserve its own class.
While the theme seemed fun there was not one out of combat feature, you don’t actually feel like an Alchemist by choosing the subclass just by your choices in core which you can still choose while being a Gunsmith. And the theme was so in your face you couldn’t escape it into a proper fantasy world like you can with most other classes (except somewhat Monks)
In Conclusion please if you mention one of the above 3, give it some extra thought in case you didn’t realise one of the above. (I didn’t realise the SSI issue till DnDPaladin spelled it out to me early in this thread) And add a few suggestions on how you would fix the issues as the 2017 version is not good enough. Thanks
Downtime has never been an issue in my campaigns unless the player's themselves insist on rushing things.
In my campaigns I have made a Battle-Smith variant which gets a suit of arcano-mechanical armor instead of the pet. The armor is based on the pet instead of the one from the School of Invention from UA.
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I'm not disagreeing with anyone, I'm just saying the pace really does depend on the DM, and not on the players.
"As you arrive back from your latest adventure, a messenger arrives with urgent notice that your allies in Suchandsuchtown are in need of your assistance." "Well, before we move onto there, I was hoping my fighter could use the iron we got from our last adventure to craft himself a new set of plate armor." "Fine. You spend two months crafting a set of sturdy and well made plate armor, and Suchandsuchtown has fallen and become infested with vampires during the meantime and all of your allies are dead." ".......huh?"
In terms of downtime: as Mezzurah said, DM dependent. In his given example the DM comes off as a dick, but it's also quite possible that the game could've played out with the DM using several methods of messaging to his players "this is urgent. It's happening now, and every day you dawdle I'm going to roll the Apocalypse Dice to see who lives." The initial messenger, news elsewhere of Evil Forces moving in the area of Suchandsuchtown, foreboding visions delivered to the party's clerics, palladalladingdongs or warlocks. If the players decide to take two months' downtime to build some platemail when they've got that sort of messaging going on, or if their campaign has previously been on the faster-paced, get-your-shit-and-go sort? Then the DM isn't being an ******* when the players show up two months later and Suchandsuchtown has fallen to the vampires.
He told you, the players, that would happen if you didn't get your asses in gear.
Nevertheless. Back on the original topic...the artificer has to be able to work at whatever pace the DM sets. Infuse Item works for that because you get one long rest per day unless you're on a real Death March, so the DM can't say 'you have no time'. And to be fair, Arutha is quite correct. Wondrous Invention was unacceptable as a class feature for the reasons he laid out. If, as a player, you're in a position where your game moves fast and you generally can't afford more than a few days of downtime at a time? Ask your DM if you can try and rush whatever you're crafting, do it in significantly less time at the cost of having to pass a skill check (or several) to accomplish in days what takes others weeks.
Which, by the way, is a great reason to have tool expertise, as well as a great potential set-up for an Awesome Moment.
Player: "I know building this +2 MacGuffin is supposed to take three weeks. I want to do it in three days."
DM: "Hmm. Normally that would be impossible...but you are an artificer, I suppose. All right. You won't be able to sleep while you're working on this, and anything your party can do to boost you will only work for one roll since this is spreading their efforts out over three days, too. You'll have to eat three levels of exhaustion to even make the attempt, and anyone who helps you has to eat a level of exhaustion too, to represent you pushing them as well as yourself. This is going to be a pretty ugly skill challenge. Do you do it?"
Player: "Damn right I do. Bring it, Big Man. These tools were made for makin', and that's just what they'll do."
Cue the Iron Man Building The Armor montage and a tense skill challenge to see if the artificer can beat the odds and save the party two and a half weeks.
Depending on what you're trying to build, how important it is, and how much time you're trying to slice off, this would absolutely qualify as an encounter on its own. I'm recalling the forging of the Prime Trammels in CR; that was purely a tools and ability challenge, and it was awesome. There's no reason an artificer can't strive for the same, ne?
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it actually took them weeks to get to ultron !
in movies or cinematics they usually dont give you any indication of time, but characters suddently being in literally other places the next scene makes no sense and is a way to pass time, aka Downtimes !
exemple, your bbeg is a figther, can't always be a wizard right ?
without any teleportation methods, he has to travel still, thats downtime.
the same happens in movies, where you see not the downtime, it is there as scenes breaks off. they are not simulataneously happenning with characters suddently teleporting to the next scene. the same is true for transformations. people in power rangers have been degrading the fact that power rangers takes a hell of along time transforming and the enemy just stand there. but reality is... they are not transforming one at a time either, they are all transforming at the same time, yet for show, we see each one hapenning independently. that is also a time stretching moment.
Fact is, may it be in video games or movies, there is always a downtime somewhere, may it be shown to the public, or hidden. but it is always there.
the exemple of the DM who says his villain is always actively trying to dominate the world or do his things... of course he is, but he still requires to move, he still requires to eat or drink, he still requires sleeping time. your bbeg is not actively using every single nano seconds of his life toward his very goal. otherwise there is no reasons for your players to hunt a god they can't stop in time. may you want it or not, your bbeg uses the downtime as well. may it be to read informations or receive brifings by his spies, it is downtimes !
sorry but any DMs who tells me the world is in danger every single seconds of his world. i'd say... you need more then 1 band of adventurer man, you need a god to take this quest. someone who can stop evil every seconds.
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I thought we were drawing a distinction between travel time and downtime. A lot of crafting wouldn’t be possible while travelling. Take Mezzurah’s example slightly edited:
Someone wants to craft plate armor but as soon as the party arrive home they receive a letter an army is moving to a strategic village. Either they start moving now for 2 weeks travel time or wait 2 weeks and 2 weeks travel time and be late.
Building plate armor on the go is very unrealistic, only really Tinkering is likely to work on the go and even that would work better at a workshop.
I just never run a bad guy who acts before every aspect of his plan is complete and has 2-3 back up plans. Ie. Thanos. You could say he was BBEG since Avengers but he never showed himself and retreated. And no temp bad guy ever stopped for spy info, Ultron had all internet knowledge before moving and Loki had a goal tesseract open portal.
For a final bit of context on how I get around these issues in my next planned game:
1. I have been editing the Stars without Number Faction turns to a Fantasy setting, where monthly each faction will be moving or trying to do something that the players will only hear in rumours, like the above moving army.
2. I want to run a hybrid West Marches game even if I only have one player group, I make each person create two or more characters and rotate them in a final fantasy group composition. Eg party A go raid a dungeon in the mean time X faction is doing Y thing so party B have to go fix it.
I expect there will be at least one Artificer in group B, but he will have to get levels to keep up crafting: ie he has to be lvl10+ to make rares.I’ll also likely give them airships similar to FF9 so they can craft on the move, which are just 3 times faster than walking (where horses are 2 times).
You all act as if those villains you speak were ready to go as soon as they were able to... Thanos had a lot of complications and had to wait often. Youve seen that since the first avengers.
Loki had the same problems... Again youve seen that way before avengers.
Ultron didnt instantly know everything. If he did wed have had the real age of ultron like the comics where he actually defeats the avengers. They greatly diminished ultron in the movie.
If you think bbeg dont have downtimes... Your call... But mines have and players have time to deal with them or get something going. Those who always put pressure by adding a timer really just want the story to move on without players doing their things. Timers are great... But its not all there is to adventuring. Exploration is where its at and exploration cannot happens if you always force the players into rushing your bbeg.
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So this isn't a solution to an underlying issue on whether or not a DM is giving players a reasonable amount of downtime, but more of a trick the artificer might use to eke out extra days/hours/minutes of crafting in the face of travel times. It comes at the cost of splitting the party (almost never a good idea), can't be done at level one and there are likely much better methods (like some kind of mobile workshop). This is just something I started thinking about while reading this discussion.
Many-Handed Pouch plus Gaseous Form (or Enlarge/Reduce if you're a small race, or Polymorph if you have it, etc). The pouch works to transfer items across a distance of 100 miles. It could just as easily transfer a living creature sized or formed appropriately.
As long as the straight line distance is less than 100 miles or maybe 500 miles with multiple many-handed pouches chained in sequence (or even farther using a certain RAW exploit) an Artificer can join the party later on in the journey by just turning themselves into a gas and wafting through a bag. All that's needed is to just send a note through the pouch to say they are needed.
Travel Pace states a normal pace covers a distance of roughly 24 miles per day so at the end of day 4 the party will have traveled 96 miles giving The Artificer in this scenario an extra 4 days of crafting time. That's almost an entire workweek which is even more significant with subclass faster crafting.
At level 14 an Archivist can keep one infused item at home, one on a party member and just commute as needed instantly regardless of distance. Granted at that point the party's methods of travel may well have changed to be drastically different and travel times might be almost non-existant.
my beef with all of this is that most of the feedback they received, is from conceived kids/adults who were abused by video games where crafting is instantaneous. so thats what they want, instant magical gears to get best in slots, because thats what video games do. pushing this game into a whole new, video game vibe where the game can be finished in one sessions and we can go to the next content. where the game is really a simulation game about adventuring where a campaign isn't just 1 adventure, its numerous adventures. unlike in video games where your world is constantly in danger... the one these adventurers live in isn't. there isn't a mage or necromancer every single villages. often time adventurers travels and can pass days without finding anything of value. making their money go down because they are not finding the next fix.
but most people just want the aretificer to be like in 3e where they could just craft all the best in slot for the group on the go as they were adventuring. because thats what they were trained to do. find gear, trade it for better gear. they stumble as soon as you tell them no because the merchant knows what he has in his pocket. it leads to applayers strickly wanting to kill your NPC to get their stuff instead. showing even more that they care for nothing of your world. they just want the loot and gear.
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Look, Paladin. If you want eighty percent of your adventure to be downtime makework or uneventful travel montages, go for it. It's your table, run it any way you please and if your players are on board then more power to ya. But yelling at everyone else who wants their class features to be class features, the same as every other class, instead of items that can be broken, stolen, or simply CONSUMED THROUGH ORDINARY USE that they're being a bunch of entitled vidya-gaem brats is counterproductive. Some tables want a sense of tension at the table, a sense that the world is alive and changing even when they're not directly engaging with it, rather than spending a year of downtime faffing off between every basic dungeon delve.
There isn't a black mage or necromancer in every podunk village, no. There's no evil chromatic dragon at the bottom of every hole in the ground, no lich lurking in every abandoned keep. But there absolutely are black mages, necromancers, chromatic dragons, or liches out there. And if'n you adventuring lot don't go and find them, they're gonna find you, and you'll be the worse off for it.
I have no desire for an artificer to be able to craft "best in slot gear" (what does that even mean in D&D, anyways?) without putting best-in-slot effort into it. Nobody crafts a Staff of the Magus in the back of a wagon between cave dives, and nobody wants to except idiots. What everybody else in this thread wants is a class that feels fun, exciting, and most of all complete to play. If you hate it so much, use the 2017 rules. They're still out there.
The rest of us are going to hope the artificer gets better instead of worse.
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Yurei... seriously... i have not said a word about any of what you said. i simply said that what most people want here, exemple fo the new artificer who made the cut... is that they do not want any wait whatsoever in the creation of things. and the only answer i have gotten about crafting is always the same, change the system cause it doesn't work. while on the contrary it works like a charm. it sjust that people do not like downtimes.
as for me going all the way downtimes by 80% of my games... how would you know that if not for the fact its false...
much like adventurers league, my downtimes are at the end of an adventure. i consider the charcaters to have a few weeks in between adventures depending on the situation they left the adventure in or where they go next. and i allow them to do stuff during that downtime. i suggest you go read downtimes, there is a lot of information in that section about how character can just do stuff including potions of healing for themselves with the herbs kit. what i do is exactly what downtime is reffered to. but by what people tell me in this thread, and i'm just interpretting it that way... they are playing video games where something happens every seconds of the game. with no time for healing, no time for sleep, no time for anything. just pure actions and adventure at all times.
just saying here, this game is not a video game, nor is it a movie.
unlike movies, the players actually affect the scenes by their ideas, and unlike a video game, the players are not limited to anything. if they want to pee on the NPC they can, if they want to behead the NPC they can, if they want to throw a barrel of monkey at a bunch of goblins, they can.
but downtimes is downtimes, and downtimes is the time between adventures. that time is necessary and encompasses everything including travel times. passing thru local villages as you go, buying more rations and the likes. i highly suggest people stop bypassing that section, there is a lot of information about how the game works during such downtimes.
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Yurei it is best to agree with DnDPaladin in the end, he does tend to play reasonably differently from a more generalist approach, but in no way does that make his way any more wrong than ours. In fact it guaranteed is a more old school way of play and it is nice to have that moderator voice in the debate.
In conclusion I do think there is a perfect place for the rules as written crafting as an aside benefit however I know that anyone that builds a character around it is bound for disappointment specifically because he only gets to play when the rest of his group are not playing. And building a class around the rules as written just means that 1/13 of the player base “only get to play when the rest of the group are not playing.”
In my opinion the Artificer Should be Prodigy level of crafting, not just double but 1 long rest as long as you get your hands on materials, and I know that is gamey but that’s what people sign up for when they invest everything into being a crafter. And if you craft something you never have before you lose a point of exhaustion for the rush. Just let it be gamey otherwise it becomes pure magical.
But at this point I am not trying to convince anyone just throwing out opinions and ideas, and happy to discuss other aspects to see if there is a different POV I haven’t considered on something in Artificer.
Then why the hell do you keep sassing people in this thread about being stupid brain-derp vidya gaem zombie people who expect 'instant' crafting? if you hand out fat chunks of downtime at the end of every session and expect your players to tell you what they do with them at the start of the next, what does it matter how the crafting rules work? Your players are 'instantly' crafting in the sense that they tell you what they want, you tell them what to roll and what happens when they succeed/fail, and then bookkeeping's done huzzah. If it takes three months of in-game time, who cares - it took ten minutes of session time. Which is, by the way, the same assumption many of the Vidya Gaems you keep sassing make, they just don't spell it out.
Are you seriously just peeved by the fact that Infuse Item doesn't create single permanent objects at set character levels anymore? That was a terrible waste of character levels, and as has been pointed out it was equivalent to other class features simply disappearing forever through normal play. Imagine if your wizard could only ever use his ninth-level spell slot once EVER, and then it was expended and would never recharge again. That would feel like a horrible waste of a class level, ne?
Otherwise I have no idea why you're on this giant crusade against tension when you are admitting that you handle downtime the same way everyone else does - i.e. doling it out between sessions and saving precious game time for actual adventuring - and don't really care which crafting rules are in effect?
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"Imagine if your wizard could only ever use his ninth-level spell slot once EVER, and then it was expended and would never recharge again."
Yurei, I think you've summed up my feelings about the Wish spell perfectly, lol.
In seriousness though, we're all arguing over something that is entirely subjective and in the hands of the DM, and probably also the setting depending on its levels of magic or tech. There's a lot of leeway for us to go about it here, and if the Artificer is coming out in a new book based on the Eberron setting, then that might be a good opportunity for WotC to go about introducing new crafting rules for a high magitech setting such as that where you can go crafting a set of plate armor in a way that's expedited.
I understand the point you are trying to make. However, what you are wanting out of spell storing makes it sound overpowered in my opinion. You need to think of Spell Storing as a modified version of the 3rd level spell Glyph of Warding (Spell Glyph). The first sentence for Spell Glyph states... "You can store a prepared spell of 3rd level or lower in the glyph by casting it as part of creating the glyph." You need to cast that spell in conjunction with casting Glyph of Warding. So you are using two spell slots.
Spell Storing allows you to imbue the arcane properties of a spell into a nonmagical object that can be used at a latter time. In order to imbue those properties you will need to cast the spell. But what you are talking about is essentially using that nonmagical item that has a spell stored in it as a remote control to activate the spell. This way the Artificer still has the spell slot if they need it.
What if the player with the nonmagical item that has been imbued with a spell uses it and the Artificer doesn't know about? Then the Artificer thinks they have three 1st level spell slots in reality they have two. Or the Artificer uses up all their 1st level spell slots and the character that was given the nonmagical item that has been imbued with a 1st level spell and tries to use it but they can't because the spell slot is gone.
At least with the spell slot being used in conjunction with using spell storing, you will not run into the above situation.
The Artificer is not supposed to be a 100% spellcaster. Spellcasting is supposed to be an ability that assists the Artificer. The Artificer has subclasses that contain abilities that aid them in combat. If you want to rely on the spellcasting ability when you are in combat, they maybe you should play a cleric, sorcerer, or wizard. They have plenty of spell slots and access to plenty of direct damaging spells.
I will be one of the first ones to say that the 2017 Artificer UA was flawed and overpowered.
1. Wondrous Invention while a great idea was extremely limited. That is why I played around with it and wrote this way...
Wondrous Invention - At 2nd level, you gain the use of a magic item that you crafted. Choose an item from the list of common or uncommon magic items (DM discretion).
Crafting a magic item is a difficult task. When you gain a magic item from this feature, it reflects long hours of study, tinkering and experimentation that allowed you to finally complete the item. You are assumed to work on this item in your leisure time and to finish it when you level up. Due to your training, crafting times and costs for common through rare magic items are halved. These magic items are detailed in the Dungeon Master’s Guide & Xanathar’s Guide to Everything.
You complete another magical item of your choice when you reach certain levels in this class: 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th (uncommon items at 5th level, rare at 10th and very rare at 15th). The item you choose must be of the specified rarity level or lower (DM discretion). Additional magic items can be created but crafting times and costs are normal.
I wrote my version of Wondrous Invention in this way as it expanded on the number of magic items that can be crafted and it allowed the DM to have a say in what items they would allow. Also, the rarity level increased as you gained experience. I never liked the fact that you had to be level 20 in order to craft Eyes of the Eagle (2017 Artificer UA).
2. Infuse Magic/ Spell Storing was also extremely limited and here is my take on it.....
Spell Storing - At 3 level, you gain the ability to channel your artificer spells into objects for later use. When you cast an Artificer spell (1 level or higher) with a casting time of 1 action, bonus action or reaction, you can increase its casting time to 1 minute. If you do and hold a nonmagical item throughout the casting, you expend a spell slot, but none of the spell’s effects occur. Instead, the spell transfers into that item for later use (if the item doesn’t already contain a spell from this feature).
Any creature holding the item thereafter can use an action, bonus action, or reaction (depending on the spell) to activate the spell (if the creature has an Intelligence score of at least 6). The spell is cast using your spellcasting ability. If the spell targets more than one creature, the creature that activates the item selects the additional targets. If the spell has an area of effect, it is centered on the item. If the spell’s range is self, it targets the creature that activates the item.
When you infuse a spell in this way, it must be used before the beginning of your next long rest. After that time, its magic fades and is wasted. You can have a limited number of infused spells at the same time. You gain additional spells stored when you reach certain levels in this class, as shown in the Spells Stored Column of the Artificer table (3rd - 6th 2 spells, 7th - 11th 3 spells, 12th - 16th 4 spells, and 17th and up 5 spells).
I wrote Spell Storing like this to make it more viable without being overpowered (my version of the Artificer doesn't have direct damaging or healing spells).
3. The subclasses from the 2017 Artificer UA was extremely overpowered. Depending on the Alchemical Formula, the Alchemist could do up to 10d6 damage or restore 10d8 hit points. The Gunsmith could also deal up to 11d6 damage with a single shot. Also, the Alchemist never ran out of raw alchemical components and the gunsmith didn't need any raw materials to craft ammunition. Below are my takes on both of these issues.
Alchemist - Alchemist’s Satchel. You craft an Alchemist’s Satchel, a bag of reagents that you use to create a variety of concoctions. The bag weighs 5 pounds and both the bag and its contents are magical. This magic allows you to pull out exactly the right materials you need for your Alchemical Formulas (described below). After you use one of those formulas the materials are spent (only you can pull anything from the satchel, to everyone else it is an empty satchel).
If you lose this satchel, you can create a new one over the course of three days of work (8 hours each day) by expending 100gp worth of leather, glass, and other raw materials. Once every thirty days, 15 pounds of alchemy components needs to be added to the bag.
Formulas (examples)
Alchemical Acid. As an action, you can reach into your Alchemist’s Satchel, pull out a vial of acid, and hurl the vial at a creature or object within range of you (the vial and its contents disappear if you don’t hurl the vial by the end of the current turn). Make a ranged attack against the target. On a hit, the vial shatters. The creature and/or object takes 2d6 acid damage. An object automatically takes max damage.
At 7th level you can expend a 2nd level spell slot as you pull a vial from your satchel to increase damage to 3d6, at 11th level you can expend a 3rd level spell slot to increase the damage to 4d6, at 15th level you can expend a 4th level spell to increase the damage to 5d6, and at 19th level you can expend a 5th level spell slot to increase the damage to 6d6.
Healing Draught. As an action, you can reach into your Alchemist’s Satchel and pull out a vial of healing liquid. A creature can drink it as an action to regain 2d8 hit points. The vial then disappears. Once a creature regains hit points from this alchemical formula, the creature can’t do so again until it finishes a short rest. If not used, the vial and its contents disappear after 1 hour. While the vial exists, you can’t use this formula.
At 7th level you can expend a 2nd level spell slot as you pull a vial from your satchel to increase the healing draught to 3d8, at 11th level you can expend a 3rd level spell slot to increase it to 4d8, at 15th level you can expend a 4th level spell to increase it to 5d8, and at 19th level you can expend a 5th level spell slot to increase it to 6d8.
In both of the above examples the formulas do a base amount of damage or restore hit points. But to increase the damage or restore more hit point, a spell slot would need to be used. Also, I required additional alchemy components to be added to the Alchemist's bag, to show use.
Gunsmith - Arcane Magazine. At 3 level, you craft a leather satchel that weigh 10 pounds. It is used to carry your tools and ammunition for your Thunder Cannon. Your Arcane Magazine includes the powders, lead shot, and other materials needed to keep that weapon functioning (it holds 40 rounds of ammunition). You can use the Arcane Magazine to produce ammunition for your gun. At the end of each long rest, you can magically produce up to 40 rounds of ammunition with this magazine. At the end of a short rest, you can produce 10 rounds. If you lose your Arcane Magazine, you can create a new one as part of a long rest, using 25gp of leather and other raw materials. Once every thirty days, 10 pounds of raw material needs to be added to the bag.
Thunder Cannon - At 3rd level, you forge a deadly firearm using a combination of arcane magic and your knowledge of engineering and metallurgy. This firearm is called a Thunder Cannon. It is a ferocious weapon that fires leaden projectiles that can punch through armor with ease. You are proficient with the Thunder Cannon. The firearm is a two-handed ranged weapon weighing 5 pounds that deals 2d6 piercing damage and has a normal range of 150 feet and maximum range of 500 feet. Once fired, an action must be used to reload the Thunder Cannon.
Thunder Monger - At 3rd level, you learn to channel thunder energy into your Thunder Cannon. As an action, you can expend a 1 level spell slot to make this special attack with your Thunder Cannon that deals an extra 1d6 thunder damage on a hit.
At 7th level you can expend a 2nd level spell slot to increase the damage to 2d6, at 11th level you can expend a 3rd level spell slot to increase the damage to 4d6, at 15th level you can expend a 4th level spell to increase the damage to 6d6, and at 19th level you can expend a 5th level spell slot to increase the damage to 8d6.
Piercing Round - Starting at 14th level, you can shoot lightning energy through your Thunder Cannon. As an action, you can expend a 4th level spell slot to make this special attack with it. Rather than making an attack roll, you cause the gun to unleash a bolt of lightning, 30-feet long and 5-feet wide. Each creature in that area must make a Dexterity saving throw. A creature takes 6d6 lightning damage on a failed save and half as much on a successful one. At 19th level you can expend a 5th level spell slot the damage increases to 8d6. The lightning ignites flammable objects in the area that aren’t being worn or carried.
The above information for the Alchemist and Gunsmith is how I see them and while I provided example for both subclasses, they are balances in similar ways.
My takes on Wondrous Inventions, Infuse Magic/Spell Storing & the 2 subclasses are just MY views on balancing them. I don't expect anyone or everyone to agree with what I did. Again, these are just my takes on the issues you brought up.
Thinking about it, I have come to the conclusion that the subclass should be chosen at level 1 granting them the tools of the trade for that subclass. but have them gain the rest of the subclasses abilities at level 3, this has no effect on infusions gained at level 2 of course. I thought this thinking how like the battlesmith when they choose it at level 3 boom they gain martial weapon proficiency and the ability to use Int as a modifier for physical attacks. With this they won't get the defender till level 3, but will be more combat oriented from level 1. Then for example the Alchemist is doing his stuff and can create his familiar at level 3, and along those lines for each of the subclasses.
This has been my thought since the beginning. Though, I also think they should get the I infusions at level 1 and spellcasting at level 2 (like a normal half caster) along with their subclass spells. They can still get cantrips at level 1 (through a feature not named spellcasting) or cantrips can be limited to certain subclasses.
Has anyone else noticed that when you multiclass Artificer with another spellcaster you round your Artificer class levels UP for the purposes of spell slots? That's an interesting difference from the other half casters, in my opinion.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Still no homebrew Subclass Support, is there a mechanical error stopping you guys from adding that in?