Title: "How many people NEED Wotc to allow the UA Revised Ranger to be added NOW for their active groups"
Hopefully WotC uses this information
Can you explain what it is you feel the UA Revised Ranger needs to be added to? Do you mean the core D&D game, or D&D Beyond?
Unearthed Arcana is playtest rules and whilst Wizards have said a few times that they want to rework the Ranger class in some way, there hasn't been anything published yet.
There have been a few statements of intent from WotC on this recently.
Am I missing something. When I choose UA to be allowed in my classes when creating characters I expect UA contend. Is Revised Ranger UA content or not? If it is then allow it to be selected when I choose to allow UA content in character creation. If this is not the intent of UA content then we have a naming collision and need to either rename the option in the character creation or rename the Revised Ranger as 'Early' UA. What am I missing?
Currently, only the most recent UA is available.
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"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
Title: "How many people NEED Wotc to allow the UA Revised Ranger to be added NOW for their active groups"
Hopefully WotC uses this information
Can you explain what it is you feel the UA Revised Ranger needs to be added to? Do you mean the core D&D game, or D&D Beyond?
Unearthed Arcana is playtest rules and whilst Wizards have said a few times that they want to rework the Ranger class in some way, there hasn't been anything published yet.
There have been a few statements of intent from WotC on this recently.
Am I missing something. When I choose UA to be allowed in my classes when creating characters I expect UA contend. Is Revised Ranger UA content or not? If it is then allow it to be selected when I choose to allow UA content in character creation. If this is not the intent of UA content then we have a naming collision and need to either rename the option in the character creation or rename the Revised Ranger as 'Early' UA. What am I missing?
The addition of UA content to DnDBeyond is new for 2018 - it has been stated repeatedly that they aren't going to go back and add old UA stuff (ie anything posted before the first of this year) should there be a new revision of the ranger put out sometime in the future - then it will be incorporated in to Beyond.
Sorry - as someone playing a Beast Conclave Revised Ranger here in PbP I understand it can be frustrating at times.
Yeah, at least if they allowed us to add feats outside of normal level progression (which is standard, since it talks about training for them in the PHB/DMG), we could add it ourselves. But since they don't, those of us using Revised Ranger are SOL for using D&D Beyond.
What? Where does it talk about training feats in the core books?
Yeah, at least if they allowed us to add feats outside of normal level progression (which is standard, since it talks about training for them in the PHB/DMG), we could add it ourselves. But since they don't, those of us using Revised Ranger are SOL for using D&D Beyond.
What? Where does it talk about training feats in the core books?
DMG, way in the back of chapter 7, just before Epic Boons.
Yeah, at least if they allowed us to add feats outside of normal level progression (which is standard, since it talks about training for them in the PHB/DMG), we could add it ourselves. But since they don't, those of us using Revised Ranger are SOL for using D&D Beyond.
What? Where does it talk about training feats in the core books?
DMG, way in the back of chapter 7, just before Epic Boons.
That sections seems poorly thought out. A feat is not comparable to a skill proficiency.
I imagine that the idea is for different ones to be stand ins for different levels of reward, and take different amounts of downtime, but literally any guidance on it would be great.
That sections seems poorly thought out. A feat is not comparable to a skill proficiency.
I imagine that the idea is for different ones to be stand ins for different levels of reward, and take different amounts of downtime, but literally any guidance on it would be great.
It's hard to give guidance when quests can range from trivial things like tracking down a missing person to saving a city from complete destruction, and different players want different things. Knowing what's the most fun for your group and how much power creep you're willing to allow is part of the DM's job and highly subjective.
That section's mainly there to let new DMs know "Hey, your rewards don't have to be treasure every single time."
That sections seems poorly thought out. A feat is not comparable to a skill proficiency.
I imagine that the idea is for different ones to be stand ins for different levels of reward, and take different amounts of downtime, but literally any guidance on it would be great.
It's hard to give guidance when quests can range from trivial things like tracking down a missing person to saving a city from complete destruction, and different players want different things. Knowing what's the most fun for your group and how much power creep you're willing to allow is part of the DM's job and highly subjective.
That section's mainly there to let new DMs know "Hey, your rewards don't have to be treasure every single time."
And yet, there is treasure reward guidance in the same book, they had guidelines in mind for how many magic items of what rarity a group should have at any given level when they built the magic items and assigned rarity, and they could literally have just added a small table with skills, languages, tools, and feats and what sorts of magic items/treasure rewards they are roughly commensurate with.
No need to touch on what sort of quests deserve a given reward. The DM can either figure that out for treasure and magic items, or can't. If they can, then such a table helps the DM decide what sorts of alternate rewards are appropriate based on what the "loot" reward would have been.
I will say that I like the idea of reworking the features of the revised ranger into a set of alternate features that a player can choose to swap out PHB features for.
I would prefer to just replace the PHB ranger, and I disagree with those who think that the Revised Ranger core class features are too strong, but I think it's a good middle ground. In the game whrein my wife is playing a RR Beast Conclave, we swapped out Coordinated Attack with the traditional Extra Attack, because she didn't like that the pet was doing more than the actual character in a given round. Having the pet on it's own initiative and having it use part of the ranger's action to attack was just a bit too far in the opposite direction from the weak pet of the PHB version.
And yet, there is treasure reward guidance in the same book, they had guidelines in mind for how many magic items of what rarity a group should have at any given level when they built the magic items and assigned rarity, ...
Treasure and magic items are the traditional rewards for adventuring. Treasure and magic item tables are practically a requirement. Wizard's own adventure writers need to know what's an appropriate amount of treasure and magic items to put into official adventures.
... and they could literally have just added a small table with skills, languages, tools, and feats and what sorts of magic items/treasure rewards they are roughly commensurate with.
Even something as trivial as that would've probably required playtesting to publish.
Good enough starting point: treat skills, tools, languages and exploration/social feats as minor magic items (magic item tables A-E) and combat feats as major magic items (tables F and higher). Languages < tools < skills < feats.
Likewise, the changes to Natural Explorer and Primeval Awareness were a bit much.
Natural Explorer went a bit overboard. Having the list of bullet points be available for every terrain instead of just the favorite one would have been sufficient.
Primeval Awareness however is absolute bullcrap in vanilla. I would honestly never use it, because as a Ranger, you already have very few spell slots, and giving up on one of them, just to sit down for one minute and get the info that somewhere in your general area is at least one of a whole list of creatures... that's just useless. If it was a pinpoint magical radar you could turn on and then follow without the need for tracking or something... yes, I would get why this would need a spell slot. The way it is however is as if you would force the Paladin to use up one of their spell slots just to use their Divine Sense feature... because that is what Primeval Awareness boils down to. In fact, Primeval Awareness is even less usefull than Divine Sense, because with Divine Sense you're able to pinpoint the creatures location and you know what type of creature you're facing. You can even use it to identify those creatures. What does Primeval Awareness do in comparison? Somewhere in this wood/city/desert/whatever is at least one Abberation/Celestial/Dragon/Fey/Fiend/Undead, but you don't know the direction, distance, or what type of creature it is... so maybe it is the woman you've just helped, but maybe not. And maybe she might be a Dragon, but maybe she could also be a Vampire, or a Fiend in disguise, or whatever... and yes, she's just behind your back, uncomfortably close to your neck... but hey, thanks for throwing that spell slot away!
Likewise, the changes to Natural Explorer and Primeval Awareness were a bit much.
Primeval Awareness however is absolute bullcrap in vanilla. I would honestly never use it, because as a Ranger, you already have very few spell slots, and giving up on one of them, just to sit down for one minute and get the info that somewhere in your general area is at least one of a whole list of creatures... that's just useless.
Well first, I'd say you're doing it wrong. Primeval awareness tells you all the things in the area. Fey? check, Fiends? check. Beasts? Check. Humanoids? Check. Undead? Check. You don't sense any elemental, celestial, dragons, or abborations within 6 miles. So it's a lot more information than "there is something within 6 miles of me, it could be anything, oh well." Hell, if you are in a city, and you happen to sense an aberration or undead, that right there is an instant plot hook. At the very least, it gives the wizard, cleric, paladin and druid the opportunity to prep the right spells. It has other uses.
Second, the changes to PA WERE a bit much. Regardless of how crap you think vanilla was.
All they had to do was make it a limited feature comparable to divine sense and it would have been about right. I agree burning a spell slot was too much. So is having near perfect intel about a fortification thats 4.5 miles away that you've never seen, as well as near perfect knowledge of scouts in the area as an incidental byproduct of its use... oh, and if that's not bad enough you also can sense other potential enemies unrelated to the actual fortifications. Basically it's a free 6th or 7th (or 9th) level spell (at least as powerful as scrying imo; but without the chance of failure or component cost.) that you can activate as needed. "a bit much"
I have 3 rangers in my party (out of 6). 2 of which use the Revised Ranger, the other sticking with the old one. After looking at his skills and what he has, he wishes he would be the Revised Ranger (he went the hunter archetype), but won't switch due to familairty and doesn't want to mess with the DM. The only reason the entire group hasn't joined this (awesome) site is due to the Revised Ranger class missing. Myself and the DM are the only two on it right now, and I can confidently say if the Revised Ranger was added, the other 5 would be here very shortly after. And before anyone askes, its a Beast Conclave (a mounted gnome shooting a bow), Hunter Conclave (Dual-wielding scout), and a Gloom Stalker (Drow Bow-wielder).
Likewise, the changes to Natural Explorer and Primeval Awareness were a bit much.
Primeval Awareness however is absolute bullcrap in vanilla. I would honestly never use it, because as a Ranger, you already have very few spell slots, and giving up on one of them, just to sit down for one minute and get the info that somewhere in your general area is at least one of a whole list of creatures... that's just useless.
Well first, I'd say you're doing it wrong. Primeval awareness tells you all the things in the area. Fey? check, Fiends? check. Beasts? Check. Humanoids? Check. Undead? Check. You don't sense any elemental, celestial, dragons, or abborations within 6 miles. So it's a lot more information than "there is something within 6 miles of me, it could be anything, oh well." Hell, if you are in a city, and you happen to sense an aberration or undead, that right there is an instant plot hook. At the very least, it gives the wizard, cleric, paladin and druid the opportunity to prep the right spells. It has other uses.
Well, based on the wording, it can be read as "Is one of the following in the area? - Yes/No" or as "Do I sense one of those in the area? - Yes you can sense that..." and depending on how generous your DM is, it can be worth something or nothing at all. Fact is, there isn't any indicator on what exactly you get as information. It might literally be only a "yes".
Second, the changes to PA WERE a bit much. Regardless of how crap you think vanilla was.
All they had to do was make it a limited feature comparable to divine sense and it would have been about right. I agree burning a spell slot was too much. So is having near perfect intel about a fortification thats 4.5 miles away that you've never seen, as well as near perfect knowledge of scouts in the area as an incidental byproduct of its use... oh, and if that's not bad enough you also can sense other potential enemies unrelated to the actual fortifications. Basically it's a free 6th or 7th (or 9th) level spell (at least as powerful as scrying imo; but without the chance of failure or component cost.) that you can activate as needed. "a bit much"
I disagree. A Ranger was traditionally someone who is able to deal with beasts - similar to the Druid. And you don't get any knowledge about any structures. You get to know the rough distance and direction of your favored enemies, nothing more. It's basically a lesser version of locate creature, which is a 4th level spell. And if you excuse my bluntness, how you would compare this feature to scrying is honestly beyond me.
I disagree. A Ranger was traditionally someone who is able to deal with beasts - similar to the Druid. And you don't get any knowledge about any structures. You get to know the rough distance and direction of your favored enemies, nothing more. It's basically a lesser version of locate creature, which is a 4th level spell. And if you excuse my bluntness, how you would compare this feature to scrying is honestly beyond me.
First, if it were limited to beasts, that would be one thing... but it isn't. Humanoids is on the list, which encompasses a hell of a lot. Civilized races, monsterous races, interplaner entities.
Second, it's not "distance and direction and that's it" and you know it. It's, in order, number of (humanoids); number of groups that include at least one (humanoid); approximate size, distance and direction of EACH group that contains at least one humanoid. So, if you are 5 miles from the castle, you know: Approx 200 humanoids in group 1, 7 groups of humanoids (near the castle and along the road), and if there are any other humanoids out there, like a goblin war party, Orc camp, or wandering trash panda, you know about that too. If you wish to navigate around the patrols, you can do that. If you wish to track down and ambush each patrol in turn, you can pretty much do that too.
Third, locate creature allows you to locate 1 creature (specifically the nearest creature of that kind, and you have to be specific. You can't simply say I want to locate the nearest fey, beast or humanoid with the spell, you instead must attempt to locate the nearest "bear" or "saytr" or "Ralf the beggar".... AND it's only good to 300 yards as opposed to 5 MILES..) Primeval awareness is far, far, FAR superior in scope and power. The fact that you would even suggest that these spells are comparable is laughable.
Scrying and Primeval awareness might be used for different purposes, but in terms of their nearly game-breaking ability to gather intel at a distance, yeah, they are on the same level... and personally, I think that's being generous.
I disagree. A Ranger was traditionally someone who is able to deal with beasts - similar to the Druid. And you don't get any knowledge about any structures. You get to know the rough distance and direction of your favored enemies, nothing more. It's basically a lesser version of locate creature, which is a 4th level spell. And if you excuse my bluntness, how you would compare this feature to scrying is honestly beyond me.
First, if it were limited to beasts, that would be one thing... but it isn't. Humanoids is on the list, which encompasses a hell of a lot. Civilized races, monsterous races, interplaner entities.
I'm talking about the following part of Primeval Awareness:
You have an innate ability to communicate with beasts, and they recognize you as a kindred spirit. Through sounds and gestures, you can communicate simple ideas to a beast as an action, and can read its basic mood and intent. You learn its emotional state, whether it is affected by magic of any sort, its short-term needs (such as food or safety), and actions you can take (if any) to persuade it to not attack. You cannot use this ability against a creature that you have attacked within the past 10 minutes.
So yes, this is definitely restricted to beasts.
Of course, there's also the tracking part of the feature, which won't let you learn about any structures or anything but
you can sense whether any of your favored enemies are present within 5 miles of you. This feature reveals which of your favored enemies are present, their numbers, and the creatures’ general direction and distance (in miles) from you. If there are multiple groups of your favored enemies within range, you learn this information for each group.
So yes, you learn the number, general direction and general range of them, but for the 5 miles you get to scan, you get only increments of miles as distance, so if there are 2 groups of creatures in a keep, you learn that there are humanoids in the keep (wow, big surprize) and their number, but you don't know which humanoids those are and you can't pinpoint them. It more of a "Somewhere in this direction, roughly one or two miles away, are some kind of humanoids. Are they Humans? I don't know. Maybe they're Orcs! You wanna find out?" than your "Approx 200 humanoids in group 1, 7 groups of humanoids (near the castle and along the road), and if there are any other humanoids out there, like a goblin war party, Orc camp, or wandering trash panda, you know about that too"
Also, this version is restricted to your favored enemy. So while yes, the scope is larger and you learn if any one of your total of 2 kinds of favored enemy is in a general direction and how far, you can't use it to find every kind of creature out there. Locate Creature is therefore quite comparable to this feature, because while the range is much lower, you get far more utility out of it.
Especially since the new favored enemy and greater favored enemy will give you two very different kinds of sets that you need to choose one out of. From Favored enemy you can get any one out of "beasts, fey, humanoids, monstrosities, or undead." while the greater favored enemy will grant you one out of "aberrations, celestials, constructs, dragons, elementals, fiends, or giants." So you could get Beasts & Dragons, or Undead & Fiends, or Humanoids & Aberrations, but not Humanoids & Fey or Beasts & Monstrosities.
Although even IF you would get all the information you suggested, it would at least let the Ranger be able to do their effing job to circumvent or track down those creatures the Ranger specialized on, instead of giving them an omnious "There is either an aberration, or a celestial, or a dragon, or an elemental, or a fey, or a fiend, or an undead somewhere within 1-6 miles from your location, good luck finding out which one and where!"
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Sorry - as someone playing a Beast Conclave Revised Ranger here in PbP I understand it can be frustrating at times.
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I will say that I like the idea of reworking the features of the revised ranger into a set of alternate features that a player can choose to swap out PHB features for.
I would prefer to just replace the PHB ranger, and I disagree with those who think that the Revised Ranger core class features are too strong, but I think it's a good middle ground. In the game whrein my wife is playing a RR Beast Conclave, we swapped out Coordinated Attack with the traditional Extra Attack, because she didn't like that the pet was doing more than the actual character in a given round. Having the pet on it's own initiative and having it use part of the ranger's action to attack was just a bit too far in the opposite direction from the weak pet of the PHB version.
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I have 3 rangers in my party (out of 6). 2 of which use the Revised Ranger, the other sticking with the old one. After looking at his skills and what he has, he wishes he would be the Revised Ranger (he went the hunter archetype), but won't switch due to familairty and doesn't want to mess with the DM. The only reason the entire group hasn't joined this (awesome) site is due to the Revised Ranger class missing. Myself and the DM are the only two on it right now, and I can confidently say if the Revised Ranger was added, the other 5 would be here very shortly after.
And before anyone askes, its a Beast Conclave (a mounted gnome shooting a bow), Hunter Conclave (Dual-wielding scout), and a Gloom Stalker (Drow Bow-wielder).
So yes, this is definitely restricted to beasts.
Of course, there's also the tracking part of the feature, which won't let you learn about any structures or anything but
So yes, you learn the number, general direction and general range of them, but for the 5 miles you get to scan, you get only increments of miles as distance, so if there are 2 groups of creatures in a keep, you learn that there are humanoids in the keep (wow, big surprize) and their number, but you don't know which humanoids those are and you can't pinpoint them. It more of a "Somewhere in this direction, roughly one or two miles away, are some kind of humanoids. Are they Humans? I don't know. Maybe they're Orcs! You wanna find out?" than your "Approx 200 humanoids in group 1, 7 groups of humanoids (near the castle and along the road), and if there are any other humanoids out there, like a goblin war party, Orc camp, or wandering trash panda, you know about that too"
Also, this version is restricted to your favored enemy. So while yes, the scope is larger and you learn if any one of your total of 2 kinds of favored enemy is in a general direction and how far, you can't use it to find every kind of creature out there. Locate Creature is therefore quite comparable to this feature, because while the range is much lower, you get far more utility out of it.
Especially since the new favored enemy and greater favored enemy will give you two very different kinds of sets that you need to choose one out of. From Favored enemy you can get any one out of "beasts, fey, humanoids, monstrosities, or undead." while the greater favored enemy will grant you one out of "aberrations, celestials, constructs, dragons, elementals, fiends, or giants." So you could get Beasts & Dragons, or Undead & Fiends, or Humanoids & Aberrations, but not Humanoids & Fey or Beasts & Monstrosities.
Although even IF you would get all the information you suggested, it would at least let the Ranger be able to do their effing job to circumvent or track down those creatures the Ranger specialized on, instead of giving them an omnious "There is either an aberration, or a celestial, or a dragon, or an elemental, or a fey, or a fiend, or an undead somewhere within 1-6 miles from your location, good luck finding out which one and where!"