Counterpoint: what a thing that would be to see in-game.
Dhampir: "Lawrence of the Law, we need to make this count. Give me just a taste of your blood and I can all but guarantee that door will not block us." Lawrence of Law: "It goes against everything my god believes in to sully myself on your fangs, monster."
That constant tension, the undercurrent of corruption and slow withering, and the temptation of this dhampir to simply...finish the job when a party member proves too obstinate or opposed to the dhampir's methods. In the hands of responsible players who can keep their shit together, the idea of the dhampir feeding from party members to bolster its own abilities in service to the party could be deliciously gothic.
Lawrence of Law: "I don't try to force you to participate in my kinks, stop involving me in yours."
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Well, it does indeed look like they are cramming this lineage system down our throats. It might be time to consider if this is the beginning of the end of 5e for me, or if the end already happened and I can stop paying attention to new content.
I don't think it was ever a doubt that this was going to get jammed down our throats.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Well, it does indeed look like they are cramming this lineage system down our throats. It might be time to consider if this is the beginning of the end of 5e for me, or if the end already happened and I can stop paying attention to new content.
I don't think it was ever a doubt that this was going to get jammed down our throats.
Agreed. Time to do what we did since the early 2000s - take a pen and write our own rules if we don't like the pregenerated stuff.
They've made it clear that their idea of "inclusiveness" and "diversity" is to whitewash everything so there are no cultures at all.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
I find the Dhampir to be a very attractive addition. But I think it might be a little OP. I'd really only make one small change to balance that though. You can only empower yourself with your bite or use the spider climb ability when not in direct sunlight.
That's genius. Dhampirs need sunlight sensitivity. I just wonder if that would justify retaining the spider climb.
That's a great point. They have WAY to much positive IMO.
While I agree about them having too much, I don't know if Sunlight Sensitivity would be a good pick. Isn't the main shtick of Dhampirs in fiction that they are NOT affected by sunlight?
And quite frankly, I find Sunlight Sensitivity to be a real playing hindrance for characters, and not just a "flavor" one.
Just need to check, Dhampir bite counts as a proper weapon "Your fanged bite is a natural weapon, which counts as a simple melee weapon with which you are proficient". This means that Hexblade should be able to replace the CON scaling with CHA. Combine this with oathbreaker paladin to get your CHA added to your damage as you have an undead creature type to synergize with your own aura. Pump that CHA up to 20 and you get your modifier twice for 1d4+10 along with the already mentioned divine smite synergy. After going the 7 paladin/1 warlock you can go into college of swords bard to get to add your bardic inspiration to your damage too.
Just need to check, Dhampir bite counts as a proper weapon "Your fanged bite is a natural weapon, which counts as a simple melee weapon with which you are proficient". This means that Hexblade should be able to replace the CON scaling with CHA. Combine this with oathbreaker paladin to get your CHA added to your damage as you have an undead creature type to synergize with your own aura. Pump that CHA up to 20 and you get your modifier twice for 1d4+10 along with the already mentioned divine smite synergy. After going the 7 paladin/1 warlock you can go into college of swords bard to get to add your bardic inspiration to your damage too.
The funny thing about how it's worded now you just ADD Con mod to both attack and damage.
This means that you would replace the STR for CHA in your build but still add CON on top of that.
So you could be doing d4 +CHA + CHA (Life drinker) + CON
What friggin stats are you running where you have 2 stats at 20 at level 1? for 99.9999% of players they will have between 16-18 in their main stat and 14-16 in their secondary. so thats a max of 1d4+con (2 or 3), IDK why your even adding Int here. No where is a casting stat involved in the bite. So to hit would be 2(prof)+2/3(con) to hit. So max +5, even a swole wizard with max con AT LEVEL 1 would be 2+5 (7) to hit and 2.5+5 to damage. So max plus to skill would be the damage 1d4 (2.5)+5. 7.5 to one ability check per day. Thats not that bad. and ONLY HAPPENS AT LEVEL 1 IF YOU HAVE 20 IN A STAT.
1st) We roll for stats since 2001. 99.9999% they won't get lucky and roll two 18s, but it has happened more than once.
2nd) I and my Co-DM give a Feat at first level. Take a half-Feat and you get two 20s.
3rd) I hope you include your ability modifier and proficiency into your skill checks. That +7.5 might be a +14.5 - maybe its a +11.5 if you roll on something you don't have high stats in.
4th) you can do it TWICE per day at lvl 1.
5th) nothing that I see says that you can't nibble your friends before a skill check.
6th) It stacks with Bardic Inspiration. DCs of 15? 20? At character level 1? *yawn*
But with a 20 constitution your friend might be dead. Any player willing to take that damage is metagaming, and your bonus’ include a house rule, incredible luck, and a bard. If you’re proficient in a skill and you can rely on those rolls, why do you need to be a Dhampir to make a DC of 20 at 1st?
Why should he be dead? Bite damage is 1D4+CON. Lets say a lvl 1 Dhampir Rogue with 18 DEX, 16 CON, and Prof: Lockpicking Tools wants to open a locked door. He'd roll 1D20 and add +6 to the skill check. With a DC of 15 that would be reasonably hard, while a DC of 20 would be quite challenging at this point.
If he chooses to nibble on his Paladin friend - who gets 10 + CON mod in Hitpoints at lvl 1, he would do 1D4+3 damage. Lets say he rolls max and does 7 damage. Pally Buddy is still fine, and now he gets +7 to his 1D20+6 for Lockpicking skill check. Suddenly that DC of 15 is laughably easy, and even the 20 is not hard. Even should you roll low, with average stats like these you almost DOUBLE your number.
And I already showed a high Attribute example WITHOUT Bardic Inspiration or Expertise. All included that would be +5 Attribute +12 Expertise +1D4+5 Bite + 1D12 Bardic Inspiration + 1D20 + Advantage. Thats +22 without rolling a single die, 26 if only 1s are rolled and the D20 is a 2, and 58 if all die roll max. Thats some 3.5 edition BS numbers right there.
I just find this to be a VERY poorly designed ability.
Yes, but the example you gave here is different with reasonable modifiers. The original version had a twenty and the rest of your party will almost definitely take damage from other sources. At 1st 1d4 +5 hit points matters.
I dislike this new direction to Race that WotC has taken. Ability scores, Language and Alignment are important details when determining whether to player that character and homebrewing a place for them in your world. AS represent the average skills of the race (I.e. if the AS of every “wood elf” was checked, they’d have a +2DEX,+1WIS), language is the expectation that every elf knows how to speak to each other, and alignment explains their average state of being (do they hunt anyone for sport? CE. Do they make treaties with their allies to better the world? LG).
Onto the races themselves.
Dhampier: Good race. Easy and solid.
Hexblood: The Magic Token is far too wordy to be a race effect. It should so easy to understand so even some with a 3 for INT can understand it.
Reborn: Wow, an undead Warforged. BORING!!
HOWEVER, these “races” feel better as templates, where I can chose a base race then replace certain abilities and stats. You did this with the Half-Dragon template in the Monster Manual and people loved that.
Finally, ONE TYPE PER RACE. Don’t confuse the players with multiple types. If a character is an undead humanoid, guess what? It’s biology is different than a humanoid’s! Same if it’s an ooze humanoid, or celestial humanoid!
In conclusion: Don’t be lazy, better as templates, and ONE TYPE PER CREATURE!!
If there's a problem I do have with this UA, is this: Should this go pass the playtest and become official, this technically makes Hags and Vampires officially playable in a way. Technically.
That's not my problem. My problem is that gnolls are apparently too 'demonic' to ever be playable, and yet those are okay? What?
(Please don't pay any attention to this, this is just me and that extremely petty, eternal question I always have. 🤣)
I mean, I want a playable Gnoll as well.
Well the UA's aren't vampires and hags so much as derivatives of vampires and hags, so using this UA's logic to satisfy the Gnoll cravings would actually give us Gnollish or Knolls or something.
Not too long back there was a thread that either started or got centered on Gnolls as a playable race, it's not really too hard to build out. Frankly, if they really wanted to assert Tasha style lineages as de facto Rules Going Forward, as both the praise and dread on this forum seems to be reading the UA, something more setting neutral/versatile like the Gnoll "redeemed and de-eviled" would have been a better way to go about it than these gothic monster lineages. Of course, that might have been too pedestrian for the product calendar and presumably these lineages are tacked into or came out of some gothic book intending to include this Shadowfellowship of player options.
EDIT: As for the UA itself, these seem all right. I was fine with the Tasha's customization and lineage options. I do question the imposition of lineages as the "new normal" so that going forward, any PHB player picking up a new sourcebook is going to be told "oh, btw, the cool kids aren't as cool with the way we handle race in the PHB, so there's this thing called lineage, catch up if you want to use any of our new stuff." By that, I mean, if they're going in this direction they really do need a revised PHB so that new players are playing with the same systems out of the box rather than have de facto two tiers of play. I've said 2024 would probably be a good time to do a D&D Reconsolidated where Xanathar and Tasha's are merged with a PHB so that all the options (including old school races perhaps provided as lineage examples) are in play to the beginner.
It’s good that it’s a simple weapon that you have proficiency with, and is a natural weapon...I might even like it if the final product makes it a finesse weapon, so that a Rogue Dhampir can Sneak Attack with it...good for a skulking, predatory vampire.
On that subject, however...they perhaps should specify that any excess damage from “Smites”, “Divine Strikes”, potential “Sneak Attacks”, or any class-based damage bonuses don’t increase the healing or ability boosts.
If they keep the bite bonuses to the 1d4 + Constitution...I think that’s a more balanced ability; and likely what was intended.
Advantage when you’re bloodied also increases the likelihood of a critical; which can double those bite bonuses, too...so even a d4 die + Con can provide a good chunk of healing in a pinch.
Also, I like the potential of a critical failure with a bite...
”You bite the enemies’s armor; cracking your tooth.”
It’s good that it’s a simple weapon that you have proficiency with, and is a natural weapon...I might even like it if the final product makes it a finesse weapon, so that a Rogue Dhampir can Sneak Attack with it...good for a skulking, predatory vampire.
On that subject, however...they perhaps should specify that any excess damage from “Smites”, “Divine Strikes”, potential “Sneak Attacks”, or any class-based damage bonuses don’t increase the healing or ability boosts.
If they keep the bite bonuses to the 1d4 + Constitution...I think that’s a more balanced ability; and likely what was intended.
Advantage when you’re bloodied also increases the likelihood of a critical; which can double those bite bonuses, too...so even a d4 die + Con can provide a good chunk of healing in a pinch.
Also, I like the potential of a critical failure with a bite...
”You bite the enemies’s armor; cracking your tooth.”
Critical failure effects are terrible IMO....
Especially on attacks when the more attacks you have its more and more likely you will proc one. It punishes those who would want multiple attacks for no real reason.
It's great to see that they are adding more undead options to the game. I hope that DnDBeyond will implement the Hollow One before placing priority on this UA.
HOWEVER, these “races” feel better as templates, where I can chose a base race then replace certain abilities and stats. You did this with the Half-Dragon template in the Monster Manual and people loved that.
I'm curious about this, as I've only glossed over the Half-Dragon in the MM and wasn't aware of this template to your post. Looking at the Half Dragon Veteran example and the Veteran NPC it builds off of, I just see traits layered on top, so I was wondering what you meant by replacing certain abilities and stats. I don't think it's really designed for PC construction, but it's presented in a way a table could readily adapt.
As a template, the Half Dragon seems basically a build up or complete add to whatever you're attaching it to. These UA lineages are designed to integrate with other PC races/lineages so that players can play vampish haggish PCs without dominating the party (though I think the Dhamphyr as its being interpreted is a bit much).
It’s good that it’s a simple weapon that you have proficiency with, and is a natural weapon...I might even like it if the final product makes it a finesse weapon, so that a Rogue Dhampir can Sneak Attack with it...good for a skulking, predatory vampire.
On that subject, however...they perhaps should specify that any excess damage from “Smites”, “Divine Strikes”, potential “Sneak Attacks”, or any class-based damage bonuses don’t increase the healing or ability boosts.
If they keep the bite bonuses to the 1d4 + Constitution...I think that’s a more balanced ability; and likely what was intended.
Advantage when you’re bloodied also increases the likelihood of a critical; which can double those bite bonuses, too...so even a d4 die + Con can provide a good chunk of healing in a pinch.
Also, I like the potential of a critical failure with a bite...
”You bite the enemies’s armor; cracking your tooth.”
Since it's a simple weapon, it should be effected by Monk martial arts, no?
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Lawrence of Law: "I don't try to force you to participate in my kinks, stop involving me in yours."
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I don't think it was ever a doubt that this was going to get jammed down our throats.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Agreed. Time to do what we did since the early 2000s - take a pen and write our own rules if we don't like the pregenerated stuff.
#OpenDnD
They've made it clear that their idea of "inclusiveness" and "diversity" is to whitewash everything so there are no cultures at all.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Oh, here we go again.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I'm just gonna start reporting them if I were you.
I find the Dhampir to be a very attractive addition. But I think it might be a little OP. I'd really only make one small change to balance that though. You can only empower yourself with your bite or use the spider climb ability when not in direct sunlight.
That's genius. Dhampirs need sunlight sensitivity. I just wonder if that would justify retaining the spider climb.
That's a great point. They have WAY to much positive IMO.
But I assume that the lineages will be powerful as I think they will be the main draw for people for this book.
While I agree about them having too much, I don't know if Sunlight Sensitivity would be a good pick. Isn't the main shtick of Dhampirs in fiction that they are NOT affected by sunlight?
And quite frankly, I find Sunlight Sensitivity to be a real playing hindrance for characters, and not just a "flavor" one.
#OpenDnD
Just need to check, Dhampir bite counts as a proper weapon "Your fanged bite is a natural weapon, which counts as a simple melee weapon with which you are proficient". This means that Hexblade should be able to replace the CON scaling with CHA. Combine this with oathbreaker paladin to get your CHA added to your damage as you have an undead creature type to synergize with your own aura. Pump that CHA up to 20 and you get your modifier twice for 1d4+10 along with the already mentioned divine smite synergy. After going the 7 paladin/1 warlock you can go into college of swords bard to get to add your bardic inspiration to your damage too.
The funny thing about how it's worded now you just ADD Con mod to both attack and damage.
This means that you would replace the STR for CHA in your build but still add CON on top of that.
So you could be doing d4 +CHA + CHA (Life drinker) + CON
Yes, but the example you gave here is different with reasonable modifiers. The original version had a twenty and the rest of your party will almost definitely take damage from other sources. At 1st 1d4 +5 hit points matters.
I have a weird sense of humor.
I also make maps.(That's a link)
I hate this UA.
I dislike this new direction to Race that WotC has taken. Ability scores, Language and Alignment are important details when determining whether to player that character and homebrewing a place for them in your world. AS represent the average skills of the race (I.e. if the AS of every “wood elf” was checked, they’d have a +2DEX,+1WIS), language is the expectation that every elf knows how to speak to each other, and alignment explains their average state of being (do they hunt anyone for sport? CE. Do they make treaties with their allies to better the world? LG).
Onto the races themselves.
Dhampier: Good race. Easy and solid.
Hexblood: The Magic Token is far too wordy to be a race effect. It should so easy to understand so even some with a 3 for INT can understand it.
Reborn: Wow, an undead Warforged. BORING!!
HOWEVER, these “races” feel better as templates, where I can chose a base race then replace certain abilities and stats. You did this with the Half-Dragon template in the Monster Manual and people loved that.
Finally, ONE TYPE PER RACE. Don’t confuse the players with multiple types. If a character is an undead humanoid, guess what? It’s biology is different than a humanoid’s! Same if it’s an ooze humanoid, or celestial humanoid!
In conclusion: Don’t be lazy, better as templates, and ONE TYPE PER CREATURE!!
Well the UA's aren't vampires and hags so much as derivatives of vampires and hags, so using this UA's logic to satisfy the Gnoll cravings would actually give us Gnollish or Knolls or something.
Not too long back there was a thread that either started or got centered on Gnolls as a playable race, it's not really too hard to build out. Frankly, if they really wanted to assert Tasha style lineages as de facto Rules Going Forward, as both the praise and dread on this forum seems to be reading the UA, something more setting neutral/versatile like the Gnoll "redeemed and de-eviled" would have been a better way to go about it than these gothic monster lineages. Of course, that might have been too pedestrian for the product calendar and presumably these lineages are tacked into or came out of some gothic book intending to include this Shadowfellowship of player options.
EDIT: As for the UA itself, these seem all right. I was fine with the Tasha's customization and lineage options. I do question the imposition of lineages as the "new normal" so that going forward, any PHB player picking up a new sourcebook is going to be told "oh, btw, the cool kids aren't as cool with the way we handle race in the PHB, so there's this thing called lineage, catch up if you want to use any of our new stuff." By that, I mean, if they're going in this direction they really do need a revised PHB so that new players are playing with the same systems out of the box rather than have de facto two tiers of play. I've said 2024 would probably be a good time to do a D&D Reconsolidated where Xanathar and Tasha's are merged with a PHB so that all the options (including old school races perhaps provided as lineage examples) are in play to the beginner.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Regarding the dhampir bite...
It’s good that it’s a simple weapon that you have proficiency with, and is a natural weapon...I might even like it if the final product makes it a finesse weapon, so that a Rogue Dhampir can Sneak Attack with it...good for a skulking, predatory vampire.
On that subject, however...they perhaps should specify that any excess damage from “Smites”, “Divine Strikes”, potential “Sneak Attacks”, or any class-based damage bonuses don’t increase the healing or ability boosts.
If they keep the bite bonuses to the 1d4 + Constitution...I think that’s a more balanced ability; and likely what was intended.
Advantage when you’re bloodied also increases the likelihood of a critical; which can double those bite bonuses, too...so even a d4 die + Con can provide a good chunk of healing in a pinch.
Also, I like the potential of a critical failure with a bite...
”You bite the enemies’s armor; cracking your tooth.”
Critical failure effects are terrible IMO....
Especially on attacks when the more attacks you have its more and more likely you will proc one. It punishes those who would want multiple attacks for no real reason.
It's great to see that they are adding more undead options to the game. I hope that DnDBeyond will implement the Hollow One before placing priority on this UA.
I'm curious about this, as I've only glossed over the Half-Dragon in the MM and wasn't aware of this template to your post. Looking at the Half Dragon Veteran example and the Veteran NPC it builds off of, I just see traits layered on top, so I was wondering what you meant by replacing certain abilities and stats. I don't think it's really designed for PC construction, but it's presented in a way a table could readily adapt.
As a template, the Half Dragon seems basically a build up or complete add to whatever you're attaching it to. These UA lineages are designed to integrate with other PC races/lineages so that players can play vampish haggish PCs without dominating the party (though I think the Dhamphyr as its being interpreted is a bit much).
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Since it's a simple weapon, it should be effected by Monk martial arts, no?