dual wield 2 hand crossbows? No. You still have to be able to load them. Get a bonus action attack with a single hand crossbow? Yes, you can do that, so the effect is the same.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Just wanted to clear this up because they're light weapons and with "crossbow expert" feat that'd be quite powerful - what do people think?
You could do it for one round, basically. The Crossbow Expert feat lets you ignore the "loading" property of the crossbows, which is what limits you to one attack per action. But it does not remove the "ammunition" property, which requires you to load(I know, Wizards makes some really poor word choices sometimes) the weapon before each shot, requiring a free hand to do so. But as was pointed out above, it's a moot point. The Crossbow Expert feat lets you take advantage of Extra Attack during the Attack action, AND gives you another attack as a Bonus action. In fact, it's even better because the bonus attack from Crossbow Expert lets you add your ability modifier to the damage, while the bonus attack from TWF does not. So if you want to be an 11th-level Fighter with Crossbow Expert firing that Hand Crossbow four times a round, knock yourself out. :)
Great! never sure whether that was OK - now I just need to figure out a way to get self-loading hand crossbows. I might resort to getting a wizard to make them for me in downtime as magic weapons
Actually - this will sound stupid by the way - what is an artificer? My party uses Xanathars and the players Handbook and they aren't mentioned anywhere in them (though maybe its just my editions)
Artificers are another character class. Rules for Artificers are found in Eberron: Rising From The Last War. They're a half caster with a focus on damage and party support, and they have a unique class ability called Infusions, which are powers that they can use to turn nonmagical weapons, armor, and equipment into temporary magic items. The Repeating Shot infusion can be used on a ranged weapon, giving it +1 to attack and damage rolls and allowing it to ignore the Loading property and also to create magical ammunition every time you ready the weapon to fire (effectively giving it infinite ammo, though the shots disappear immediately after you make the attack).
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
yeah there's really no benefit though. with the hand crossbow you can still get your extra shot in by only using one.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Except that if you have the Crossbow Mastery feat, you can already accomplish that with one hand crossbow- you ignore the Loading property so as long as you have ammunition and a free hand it's considered loaded, and when you attack you can use a bonus action to make an extra attack with it. There's no way to get more attacks than that.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
The idea would be to dual fight with 2 crossbows, gaining an extra shot as a bonus action, aka 2 weapon ranged fighting.
What I am saying is, with crossbow expert you get the benefit of the bonus action attack, you just do not need to use a second hand crossbow.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
my idea was to get hold of some self loading hand crossbows and be able to do 5 hand crossbow attacks every turn by 11th level (extra attack + the bonus action in crossbow wielder)
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
my idea was to get hold of some self loading hand crossbows and be able to do 5 hand crossbow attacks every turn by 11th level (extra attack + the bonus action in crossbow wielder)
It sounds to me like you're misunderstanding the action economy and bonus attacks. Off hand weapon attacks use your bonus action. So you would not get the bonus action from the feat as well, it's one or the other. So you're better off with just one hand crossbow and the mastery feat
my idea was to get hold of some self loading hand crossbows and be able to do 5 hand crossbow attacks every turn by 11th level (extra attack + the bonus action in crossbow wielder)
It sounds to me like you're misunderstanding the action economy and bonus attacks. Off hand weapon attacks use your bonus action. So you would not get the bonus action from the feat as well, it's one or the other. So you're better off with just one hand crossbow and the mastery feat
The reason for this is twofold:
First, loading. You still need a free hand to load and getting two hand crossbows set up for repeating shot is pointless since you don't get any benefit from doing so (aside from the visual!). Setting up one hand crossbow with repeating shot so you can wield a Shortsword or similar for OAs... that makes sense. Being able to equip a shield is another reason to get one set up.
Second, since you only get one bonus action, you have to choose between Two Weapon Fighting and Crossbow Expert. TWF doesn't get to add the (likely) dex modifier to the bonus action attack without two weapon fighting style while the Crossbow Expert bonus action does. Also, TWF doesn't work with the hand crossbow because it isn't a melee weapon. If you have Crossbow Expert and are only using your bonus action attack for the hand crossbow, two weapon fighting style is redundant and you'd be better off going with defensive fighting style, Archery fighting style, or protection fighting style (if you've got repeating shot and a shield, and really want to help protect a squishy friend). Duelling fighting style only works with melee weapons and any weapon in the other hand prevents the +2, so melee in one hand and hand crossbow in the other doesn't get the +2.
The idea would be to dual fight with 2 crossbows, gaining an extra shot as a bonus action, aka 2 weapon ranged fighting.
Doesn't two weapon fighting only effect melee weapons?
Yes,a lot of folks get confused on that though.
However, you can get a bonus action attack with the crossbow expert if you are using a hand crossbow...so effectively, you can do the same thing as a dual weapon martial (d6+dex mod) and bonus action (d6+dex mod), except you can do it at range. With archery fighting style, it can be very nice, and sharpshooter feat makes it even better.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
There are a number of elements to using a Hand Crossbow.
1. The actual Crossbow held in one hand.
2. The ammunition held in the other.
3. Loading the Crossbow.
Crossbow expert lets you ignore the Loading aspect but not the ammunition. You still need one free hand to feed the ammunition.
There are ways around the ammunition issue so we can ignore that.
That leaves the Bonus Action. You have ONE Bonsu Action per turn and Abilities or Feats that allow you to use that. But they cannot give you additional Bonus Actions, you have one.
Dual Wielder allows you to make a Single Attack with your Bonus Action if you are wielding two weapons and Crossbow Expert allows you to make a Single Attack with your Bonus Acton if you are wielding a Hand Crossbow. Both abilities are competing for the same Bonus Action, but you only have one you must choose one or the other.
Ultimately for what you want to do, Crossbow Expert is better as you can begin doing it immediately without any modified equipment and it works with Action Surge.
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Just wanted to clear this up because they're light weapons and with "crossbow expert" feat that'd be quite powerful - what do people think?
Chilling kinda vibe.
dual wield 2 hand crossbows? No. You still have to be able to load them. Get a bonus action attack with a single hand crossbow? Yes, you can do that, so the effect is the same.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
You could do it for one round, basically. The Crossbow Expert feat lets you ignore the "loading" property of the crossbows, which is what limits you to one attack per action. But it does not remove the "ammunition" property, which requires you to load(I know, Wizards makes some really poor word choices sometimes) the weapon before each shot, requiring a free hand to do so. But as was pointed out above, it's a moot point. The Crossbow Expert feat lets you take advantage of Extra Attack during the Attack action, AND gives you another attack as a Bonus action. In fact, it's even better because the bonus attack from Crossbow Expert lets you add your ability modifier to the damage, while the bonus attack from TWF does not. So if you want to be an 11th-level Fighter with Crossbow Expert firing that Hand Crossbow four times a round, knock yourself out. :)
Great! never sure whether that was OK - now I just need to figure out a way to get self-loading hand crossbows. I might resort to getting a wizard to make them for me in downtime as magic weapons
Chilling kinda vibe.
Make friends with an Artificer who's willing to put the Repeating Shot Infusion on the crossbow.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Actually - this will sound stupid by the way - what is an artificer? My party uses Xanathars and the players Handbook and they aren't mentioned anywhere in them (though maybe its just my editions)
Chilling kinda vibe.
Artificers are another character class. Rules for Artificers are found in Eberron: Rising From The Last War. They're a half caster with a focus on damage and party support, and they have a unique class ability called Infusions, which are powers that they can use to turn nonmagical weapons, armor, and equipment into temporary magic items. The Repeating Shot infusion can be used on a ranged weapon, giving it +1 to attack and damage rolls and allowing it to ignore the Loading property and also to create magical ammunition every time you ready the weapon to fire (effectively giving it infinite ammo, though the shots disappear immediately after you make the attack).
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
yeah there's really no benefit though. with the hand crossbow you can still get your extra shot in by only using one.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
The idea would be to dual fight with 2 crossbows, gaining an extra shot as a bonus action, aka 2 weapon ranged fighting.
Except that if you have the Crossbow Mastery feat, you can already accomplish that with one hand crossbow- you ignore the Loading property so as long as you have ammunition and a free hand it's considered loaded, and when you attack you can use a bonus action to make an extra attack with it. There's no way to get more attacks than that.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
What I am saying is, with crossbow expert you get the benefit of the bonus action attack, you just do not need to use a second hand crossbow.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
my idea was to get hold of some self loading hand crossbows and be able to do 5 hand crossbow attacks every turn by 11th level (extra attack + the bonus action in crossbow wielder)
Chilling kinda vibe.
even if your idea worked, it would only be 4 attacks. 3 from the attack action + one bonus action.
That's also what you get from just one hand xbow, with crossbow expert.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
It sounds to me like you're misunderstanding the action economy and bonus attacks. Off hand weapon attacks use your bonus action. So you would not get the bonus action from the feat as well, it's one or the other. So you're better off with just one hand crossbow and the mastery feat
The reason for this is twofold:
First, loading. You still need a free hand to load and getting two hand crossbows set up for repeating shot is pointless since you don't get any benefit from doing so (aside from the visual!). Setting up one hand crossbow with repeating shot so you can wield a Shortsword or similar for OAs... that makes sense. Being able to equip a shield is another reason to get one set up.
Second, since you only get one bonus action, you have to choose between Two Weapon Fighting and Crossbow Expert. TWF doesn't get to add the (likely) dex modifier to the bonus action attack without two weapon fighting style while the Crossbow Expert bonus action does. Also, TWF doesn't work with the hand crossbow because it isn't a melee weapon. If you have Crossbow Expert and are only using your bonus action attack for the hand crossbow, two weapon fighting style is redundant and you'd be better off going with defensive fighting style, Archery fighting style, or protection fighting style (if you've got repeating shot and a shield, and really want to help protect a squishy friend). Duelling fighting style only works with melee weapons and any weapon in the other hand prevents the +2, so melee in one hand and hand crossbow in the other doesn't get the +2.
Doesn't two weapon fighting only effect melee weapons?
Yes,a lot of folks get confused on that though.
However, you can get a bonus action attack with the crossbow expert if you are using a hand crossbow...so effectively, you can do the same thing as a dual weapon martial (d6+dex mod) and bonus action (d6+dex mod), except you can do it at range. With archery fighting style, it can be very nice, and sharpshooter feat makes it even better.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
There are a number of elements to using a Hand Crossbow.
1. The actual Crossbow held in one hand.
2. The ammunition held in the other.
3. Loading the Crossbow.
Crossbow expert lets you ignore the Loading aspect but not the ammunition. You still need one free hand to feed the ammunition.
There are ways around the ammunition issue so we can ignore that.
That leaves the Bonus Action. You have ONE Bonsu Action per turn and Abilities or Feats that allow you to use that. But they cannot give you additional Bonus Actions, you have one.
Dual Wielder allows you to make a Single Attack with your Bonus Action if you are wielding two weapons and Crossbow Expert allows you to make a Single Attack with your Bonus Acton if you are wielding a Hand Crossbow. Both abilities are competing for the same Bonus Action, but you only have one you must choose one or the other.
Ultimately for what you want to do, Crossbow Expert is better as you can begin doing it immediately without any modified equipment and it works with Action Surge.