This is may be more appropriate for the DM channel, but it also applies to players, who should think long and hard on their actions.
This happened yesterday. I am playing online, as a player. It is a small crew, 3 players. All have played D&D 2nd ed, but two of the players are quite new to 5e. But they are experienced enough to know the various legacy spells from 2e. The DM uses theatre of the mind for much, and Powerpoint shared over Discord with some very limited graphics for the rest. It works brilliantly BTW, and far superior to Roll 20, since the DM can whip up a room / map in seconds, as opposed to the drudgery of Roll 20. But I digress.
The group is all 3rd and 4th level. DM has us fight a Young Black Dragon. No way the 3 of us can handle it alone, but we had some help. Anyway, this Dragon can cast some spells. The group is clustered together at a door. The Dragon drops a Darkness spell on us. He zips up a black circle of 20 foot radius in about 5 seconds and covers the char's icons (we are little circles with an initial of our name).
Now, remember, we are all 3rd or 4th level, and this is the first time any of us have encountered the Darkness spell. The first guy in the Initiative order makes a bee-line out of the circle of Darkness, so he can operate. How does his char:
a. Know it is a Darkness spell
b. Know the radius of a spell he has never encountered before?
Fortunately before it was my turn, the Light Cleric used his 2nd level sub-class feature to Dispel the Darkness, so I did not have to deal with the ethical quandry of "what does my char know, or see on a map?" And once again, how does the Light Cleric know to use this feature? I am certain that neither player even connected the thought they were meta-gaming, which the DM really frowns on.
I was not DM'ing, so not my place to say "wait a minute guys, you are meta-gaming". But I know that from now on, my players will get this: I will tell them "You see a caster mumble something and wave his hands. Make a Constitution Save" Even if they roll a 20, I will say "Suddenly, all you see is Blackness.", even if I actually used Darkness.
I am sure some will say "Have a conversation with the players first about what their chars can know, and what they can't." But in the heat of the game, things happen. Players either forget, or choose to ignore those restrictions on meta-gaming, or worse, don't know they are doing it.
There's a difference between being blinded and being in darkness, so it's perfectly logical that they try to leave it. [REDACTED]
How do they know the difference?
Darkness just creates darkness that can't be seen through with darkvision. You can still see enough in darkness to know that you're seeing something, even if you can't tell what. [REDACTED]
There's a difference between being blinded and being in darkness, so it's perfectly logical that they try to leave it. [REDACTED]
How do they know the difference?
Darkness just creates darkness that can't be seen through with darkvision. You can still see enough in darkness to know that you're seeing something, even if you can't tell what. [REDACTED]
Magical Darkness blocks all normal sight, and Darkvision. You are in effect, subject to the Blinded Condition. If you don't know basic rules of the game.......
No you said it right at the end there. If the DM had a problem with what PC1 did they could/would have stopped it.
The spell doesn't say you are blinded so it is very much the "walking to the bathroom at midnight sort of moment."
The character didn't know how big the darkness was, but do assume the the character would what, stand still, in the darkness when they just saw a dragon? If you saw the space as a character, it is not unreasonable to move in a straight line in the exact direction you want until you are free of the darkness.
the only instance of meta gaming I see is the cleric using their ability because how would they know to use their ability? The action clearly calls out magical darkness, and as you said none of you had experience with the spell so how would they know to use an ability that only effects magical darkness?
There's a difference between being blinded and being in darkness, so it's perfectly logical that they try to leave it. [REDACTED]
How do they know the difference?
Darkness just creates darkness that can't be seen through with darkvision. You can still see enough in darkness to know that you're seeing something, even if you can't tell what. [REDACTED]
Magical Darkness blocks all normal sight, and Darkvision. You are in effect, subject to the Blinded Condition. If you don't know basic rules of the game.......
Blinded
A blinded creature can't see and automatically fails any ability check that requires sight.
Attack rolls against the creature have advantage, and the creature's attack rolls have disadvantage.
Movement and Position
In combat, characters and monsters are in constant motion, often using movement and position to gain the upper hand.
On your turn, you can move a distance up to your speed. You can use as much or as little of your speed as you like on your turn, following the rules here.
Your movement can include jumping, climbing, and swimming. These different modes of movement can be combined with walking, or they can constitute your entire move. However you're moving, you deduct the distance of each part of your move from your speed until it is used up or until you are done moving.
No you said it right at the end there. If the DM had a problem with what PC1 did they could/would have stopped it.
The spell doesn't say you are blinded so it is very much the "walking to the bathroom at midnight sort of moment."
The character didn't know how big the darkness was, but do assume the the character would what, stand still, in the darkness when they just saw a dragon? If you saw the space as a character, it is not unreasonable to move in a straight line in the exact direction you want until you are free of the darkness.
the only instance of meta gaming I see is the cleric using their ability because how would they know to use their ability? The action clearly calls out magical darkness, and as you said none of you had experience with the spell so how would they know to use an ability that only effects magical darkness?
How does the Fighter know there is an edge to the spell? How does he know if it is 20 feet, 40 feet, or the entire room? How does he know he has not been Blinded? When I was a kid we went to a retired coal mine. We were warned, and the lights turned out. You WERE blind. It is the precisely the same effect.
5e basically tried to nerf the perception tricks by making it so you automatically know where things are unless they actually take an action to hide. It's not super realistic but it's a lot less annoying than 'pick a square and hope the target is in it'.
No you said it right at the end there. If the DM had a problem with what PC1 did they could/would have stopped it.
The spell doesn't say you are blinded so it is very much the "walking to the bathroom at midnight sort of moment."
The character didn't know how big the darkness was, but do assume the the character would what, stand still, in the darkness when they just saw a dragon? If you saw the space as a character, it is not unreasonable to move in a straight line in the exact direction you want until you are free of the darkness.
the only instance of meta gaming I see is the cleric using their ability because how would they know to use their ability? The action clearly calls out magical darkness, and as you said none of you had experience with the spell so how would they know to use an ability that only effects magical darkness?
How does the Fighter know there is an edge to the spell? How does he know if it is 20 feet, 40 feet, or the entire room? How does he know he has not been Blinded? When I was a kid we went to a retired coal mine. We were warned, and the lights turned out. You WERE blind. It is the precisely the same effect.
Why would the fighter not attempt to run? If I were suddenly enveloped in darkness I'd sure try and find a way out. These are also worlds where magic is very real so couldn't someone know what the darkness spell is?
Also, the Light Cleric's Channel Divinity: Radiance of the Dawn, which I presume is the feature you mean, specifically banishes magical darkness. Why would the cleric NOT know that?
I'm really interested to know what you thought that first player should have done.
I saw a thing recently that think fits in most situation. Magic is like an helicopter. Plus, it's a game, not a simulation. I think it's ok to allow that sort of things a little to speed up combats and make things less tedious. But that's only my opinion and how I play this game. You can play in your own way.
No you said it right at the end there. If the DM had a problem with what PC1 did they could/would have stopped it.
The spell doesn't say you are blinded so it is very much the "walking to the bathroom at midnight sort of moment."
The character didn't know how big the darkness was, but do assume the the character would what, stand still, in the darkness when they just saw a dragon? If you saw the space as a character, it is not unreasonable to move in a straight line in the exact direction you want until you are free of the darkness.
the only instance of meta gaming I see is the cleric using their ability because how would they know to use their ability? The action clearly calls out magical darkness, and as you said none of you had experience with the spell so how would they know to use an ability that only effects magical darkness?
How does the Fighter know there is an edge to the spell? How does he know if it is 20 feet, 40 feet, or the entire room? How does he know he has not been Blinded? When I was a kid we went to a retired coal mine. We were warned, and the lights turned out. You WERE blind. It is the precisely the same effect.
Why would the fighter not attempt to run? If I were suddenly enveloped in darkness I'd sure try and find a way out. These are also worlds where magic is very real so couldn't someone know what the darkness spell is?
Also, the Light Cleric's Channel Divinity: Radiance of the Dawn, which I presume is the feature you mean, specifically banishes magical darkness. Why would the cleric NOT know that?
I'm really interested to know what you thought that first player should have done.
How does the player KNOW it is the Darkness spell, when they have never encountered it before. We started at level 1, so I know precisely what the players have been exposed to. The player could just as easily think they are blind. And how do they know the size and shape of the Darkness spell, even if they guessed what it was.
Like Is said, the Cleric did his thing, so I did not have to deal with the meta-gaming issue. But I was going to have my char shout "I can't see, can anyone?", and then take a shot in the dark, literally, with the bow I had in my hands. My char had no idea what was happening, since he could be blind, or someone turned the lights out. I would not have a clue which way to run.
No you said it right at the end there. If the DM had a problem with what PC1 did they could/would have stopped it.
The spell doesn't say you are blinded so it is very much the "walking to the bathroom at midnight sort of moment."
The character didn't know how big the darkness was, but do assume the the character would what, stand still, in the darkness when they just saw a dragon? If you saw the space as a character, it is not unreasonable to move in a straight line in the exact direction you want until you are free of the darkness.
the only instance of meta gaming I see is the cleric using their ability because how would they know to use their ability? The action clearly calls out magical darkness, and as you said none of you had experience with the spell so how would they know to use an ability that only effects magical darkness?
How does the Fighter know there is an edge to the spell? How does he know if it is 20 feet, 40 feet, or the entire room? How does he know he has not been Blinded? When I was a kid we went to a retired coal mine. We were warned, and the lights turned out. You WERE blind. It is the precisely the same effect.
HE DOESN'T - he moves until he is out. If that is 20 then he moved twenty and "Saw the light." Sorry but we're talking about not small children, it is very easy to have seen a room for a few minutes and the lights go out and be able to navigate. If you are FIGHTING A DRAGON to then as the fighter has every right in their knowledge run in the direction of the dragon and either 1) some how be able to see again 2)run into the dragon. Neither of those are meta gaming.
Go turn off a light and attempt to navigate through that part of the house - chances are you'll be able to do it with minor issues.
RE: The title of the thread - Yes we all meta game, but I feel you're using that term as a negative when it's not inherently negative. There is good, sometimes necessary, metagaming and bad, sometimes toxic, metagaming. It depends on the situation.
As to the specific situation, yes I suppose it can be annoying when people seem to know things they should not, but it's also not unreasonable to say that it was perceivably a result of spellcasting and something that could theoretically be in character knowledge. Is it something that was annoying enough to you to bring up as a problem? If it's detracting from your experience maybe you should open up a discussion about it.
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Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
No you said it right at the end there. If the DM had a problem with what PC1 did they could/would have stopped it.
The spell doesn't say you are blinded so it is very much the "walking to the bathroom at midnight sort of moment."
The character didn't know how big the darkness was, but do assume the the character would what, stand still, in the darkness when they just saw a dragon? If you saw the space as a character, it is not unreasonable to move in a straight line in the exact direction you want until you are free of the darkness.
the only instance of meta gaming I see is the cleric using their ability because how would they know to use their ability? The action clearly calls out magical darkness, and as you said none of you had experience with the spell so how would they know to use an ability that only effects magical darkness?
How does the Fighter know there is an edge to the spell? How does he know if it is 20 feet, 40 feet, or the entire room? How does he know he has not been Blinded? When I was a kid we went to a retired coal mine. We were warned, and the lights turned out. You WERE blind. It is the precisely the same effect.
Why would the fighter not attempt to run? If I were suddenly enveloped in darkness I'd sure try and find a way out. These are also worlds where magic is very real so couldn't someone know what the darkness spell is?
Also, the Light Cleric's Channel Divinity: Radiance of the Dawn, which I presume is the feature you mean, specifically banishes magical darkness. Why would the cleric NOT know that?
I'm really interested to know what you thought that first player should have done.
How does the player KNOW it is the Darkness spell, when they have never encountered it before. We started at level 1, so I know precisely what the players have been exposed to. The player could just as easily think they are blind. And how do they know the size and shape of the Darkness spell, even if they guessed what it was.
Like Is said, the Cleric did his thing, so I did not have to deal with the meta-gaming issue. But I was going to have my char shout "I can't see, can anyone?", and then take a shot in the dark, literally, with the bow I had in my hands. My char had no idea what was happening, since he could be blind, or someone turned the lights out. I would not have a clue which way to run.
But how did the CLERIC know that it was magical darkness? Why is there "meta gaming" okay but the fighter's isn't? The cleric could have also "just been blind" so why did they use a channel divinity that ONLY works on magical darkness? You say that none of you have experience with the spell - so there is no way the cleric knew to use a channel divinity made for a magical darkness. If everyone was supposed to just "think they were blind" as you keep inferring everyone should have been thinking. The cleric was also meta gaming when they dispelled the darkness.
A lot of it depends on the campaign setting. In a High Magic world, there is going to be a fundamental level of understand of magic. A regular humanoid might not know the specifics of the spell, but is very likely to say, "Something's weird, must be magic".
While meta-gaming gets a bad wrap, we don't get the advantage of a 1st person perspective of the world. Our characters are going to be more insightful than we are simply because they can see the game world for what it is. There are patterns that can be intuited about magic, which don't require a genius to figure out. For example, a 20ft radius area effect is both common and on the larger side, so if in doubt, move 25ft in a random direction.
Beyond that a DM can freely declare how rare magic is in their world. If it's less common, then sure, players would do well to err on the side of ignorance. If a DM is worried about it, then they can do what you suggest, be vague, or modify the spells to defy expectation.
Further, note that the Darkness spell "expands outward from a point", so there is a transitional effect that a character could see, which would distinguish it from a targeted Blindness effect.
If you're playing with a battlemat, on powerpoint or a VTT you're metagaming period. Since most characters are presumed to have anthropomorphic cognition, they're not going to be processing space from a top down view, yet it's what so many of us do. When I used darkness I describe the characters affected suddenly standing in pitch black, if there are characters outside the darkness they can call out, or message etc. We don't use battle maps, but if directions are important and things need to be laid out, we use maps with "fog of war". I wouldn't inscribe a circle on the map for the players unless someone can witness the inscription anymore that I would draw a monster on the other side of a closed door.
That said, I don't think your DM did anything wrong. Sure when real people are thrust into darkness, their first move usually isn't to just run, but having had eyes on a black dragon, presume "magic" is probably a fair inference. When I have characters in smoke or darkness, I'll have them usually make some sort of check (athletics, perception, I'll take suggestions) to make sure the character keeps their bearing (advantage if there's audible assistance coming from one direction, disadvantage if multiple voices are kibitzing from different vectors). If they fail, they come out elsewhere within the 180 degree arc in front of the character. Would I insist the game be played this way if I was a character cast in darkness? No.
A Light cleric has been trained to cast magic to use light to confront all sorts of darkness, if you're going to claim metagaming you might as well cry foul about first level rangers having favored foes. Domains usually have identifiable antagonists. Like light and darkness. The reason why the Cleric has magical powers, channel divinity, and the armor and weapons training it has is because confronting that antagonist is part of the Cleric's job.
When it comes to the sort of meta-gaming "foul" you seem to be crying, it's ultimately up to the DM to adjudicate when player knowledge crosses the line. If you want something grittier, talk to you DM; but using the instance as some sort of "gotcha" indictment against players broadly? I just don't see it.
No you said it right at the end there. If the DM had a problem with what PC1 did they could/would have stopped it.
The spell doesn't say you are blinded so it is very much the "walking to the bathroom at midnight sort of moment."
The character didn't know how big the darkness was, but do assume the the character would what, stand still, in the darkness when they just saw a dragon? If you saw the space as a character, it is not unreasonable to move in a straight line in the exact direction you want until you are free of the darkness.
the only instance of meta gaming I see is the cleric using their ability because how would they know to use their ability? The action clearly calls out magical darkness, and as you said none of you had experience with the spell so how would they know to use an ability that only effects magical darkness?
How does the Fighter know there is an edge to the spell? How does he know if it is 20 feet, 40 feet, or the entire room? How does he know he has not been Blinded? When I was a kid we went to a retired coal mine. We were warned, and the lights turned out. You WERE blind. It is the precisely the same effect.
Why would the fighter not attempt to run? If I were suddenly enveloped in darkness I'd sure try and find a way out. These are also worlds where magic is very real so couldn't someone know what the darkness spell is?
Also, the Light Cleric's Channel Divinity: Radiance of the Dawn, which I presume is the feature you mean, specifically banishes magical darkness. Why would the cleric NOT know that?
I'm really interested to know what you thought that first player should have done.
How does the player KNOW it is the Darkness spell, when they have never encountered it before. We started at level 1, so I know precisely what the players have been exposed to. The player could just as easily think they are blind. And how do they know the size and shape of the Darkness spell, even if they guessed what it was.
Like Is said, the Cleric did his thing, so I did not have to deal with the meta-gaming issue. But I was going to have my char shout "I can't see, can anyone?", and then take a shot in the dark, literally, with the bow I had in my hands. My char had no idea what was happening, since he could be blind, or someone turned the lights out. I would not have a clue which way to run.
Good for you. An equally valid, reasonable, and logical response is to attempt to leave and find light.
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No you said it right at the end there. If the DM had a problem with what PC1 did they could/would have stopped it.
The spell doesn't say you are blinded so it is very much the "walking to the bathroom at midnight sort of moment."
The character didn't know how big the darkness was, but do assume the the character would what, stand still, in the darkness when they just saw a dragon? If you saw the space as a character, it is not unreasonable to move in a straight line in the exact direction you want until you are free of the darkness.
the only instance of meta gaming I see is the cleric using their ability because how would they know to use their ability? The action clearly calls out magical darkness, and as you said none of you had experience with the spell so how would they know to use an ability that only effects magical darkness?
How does the Fighter know there is an edge to the spell? How does he know if it is 20 feet, 40 feet, or the entire room? How does he know he has not been Blinded? When I was a kid we went to a retired coal mine. We were warned, and the lights turned out. You WERE blind. It is the precisely the same effect.
Why would the fighter not attempt to run? If I were suddenly enveloped in darkness I'd sure try and find a way out. These are also worlds where magic is very real so couldn't someone know what the darkness spell is?
Also, the Light Cleric's Channel Divinity: Radiance of the Dawn, which I presume is the feature you mean, specifically banishes magical darkness. Why would the cleric NOT know that?
I'm really interested to know what you thought that first player should have done.
How does the player KNOW it is the Darkness spell, when they have never encountered it before. We started at level 1, so I know precisely what the players have been exposed to. The player could just as easily think they are blind. And how do they know the size and shape of the Darkness spell, even if they guessed what it was.
Like Is said, the Cleric did his thing, so I did not have to deal with the meta-gaming issue. But I was going to have my char shout "I can't see, can anyone?", and then take a shot in the dark, literally, with the bow I had in my hands. My char had no idea what was happening, since he could be blind, or someone turned the lights out. I would not have a clue which way to run.
But how did the CLERIC know that it was magical darkness? Why is there "meta gaming" okay but the fighter's isn't? The cleric could have also "just been blind" so why did they use a channel divinity that ONLY works on magical darkness? You say that none of you have experience with the spell - so there is no way the cleric knew to use a channel divinity made for a magical darkness. If everyone was supposed to just "think they were blind" as you keep inferring everyone should have been thinking. The cleric was also meta gaming when they dispelled the darkness.
You are correct. Look at my initial post. Both were meta-gaming.
No you said it right at the end there. If the DM had a problem with what PC1 did they could/would have stopped it.
The spell doesn't say you are blinded so it is very much the "walking to the bathroom at midnight sort of moment."
The character didn't know how big the darkness was, but do assume the the character would what, stand still, in the darkness when they just saw a dragon? If you saw the space as a character, it is not unreasonable to move in a straight line in the exact direction you want until you are free of the darkness.
the only instance of meta gaming I see is the cleric using their ability because how would they know to use their ability? The action clearly calls out magical darkness, and as you said none of you had experience with the spell so how would they know to use an ability that only effects magical darkness?
How does the Fighter know there is an edge to the spell? How does he know if it is 20 feet, 40 feet, or the entire room? How does he know he has not been Blinded? When I was a kid we went to a retired coal mine. We were warned, and the lights turned out. You WERE blind. It is the precisely the same effect.
HE DOESN'T - he moves until he is out. If that is 20 then he moved twenty and "Saw the light." Sorry but we're talking about not small children, it is very easy to have seen a room for a few minutes and the lights go out and be able to navigate. If you are FIGHTING A DRAGON to then as the fighter has every right in their knowledge run in the direction of the dragon and either 1) some how be able to see again 2)run into the dragon. Neither of those are meta gaming.
Go turn off a light and attempt to navigate through that part of the house - chances are you'll be able to do it with minor issues.
Perhaps I should clarify one thing. The Fighter knew the original location of the Dragon before magic was cast. The Dragon remained stationary. The Fighter DID NOT move in a straight line towards the Dragon, but in a straight line at a 45 degree angle in relation to the Dragon. He moved solely to escape a spell he had zero knowledge of the mechanics of, and could not even know what spell it was. As I have said repeatedly, he could just as easily have failed a save for Blindness. The resultant condition would be identical.
It is incumbent on DM's to keep this kind of information hidden from the player as much as possible to avoid meta-gaming. In the online situation I originally described, it is virtually impossible for the DM to do so, and has to rely on the integrity of the players.
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This is may be more appropriate for the DM channel, but it also applies to players, who should think long and hard on their actions.
This happened yesterday. I am playing online, as a player. It is a small crew, 3 players. All have played D&D 2nd ed, but two of the players are quite new to 5e. But they are experienced enough to know the various legacy spells from 2e. The DM uses theatre of the mind for much, and Powerpoint shared over Discord with some very limited graphics for the rest. It works brilliantly BTW, and far superior to Roll 20, since the DM can whip up a room / map in seconds, as opposed to the drudgery of Roll 20. But I digress.
The group is all 3rd and 4th level. DM has us fight a Young Black Dragon. No way the 3 of us can handle it alone, but we had some help. Anyway, this Dragon can cast some spells. The group is clustered together at a door. The Dragon drops a Darkness spell on us. He zips up a black circle of 20 foot radius in about 5 seconds and covers the char's icons (we are little circles with an initial of our name).
Now, remember, we are all 3rd or 4th level, and this is the first time any of us have encountered the Darkness spell. The first guy in the Initiative order makes a bee-line out of the circle of Darkness, so he can operate. How does his char:
a. Know it is a Darkness spell
b. Know the radius of a spell he has never encountered before?
Fortunately before it was my turn, the Light Cleric used his 2nd level sub-class feature to Dispel the Darkness, so I did not have to deal with the ethical quandry of "what does my char know, or see on a map?" And once again, how does the Light Cleric know to use this feature? I am certain that neither player even connected the thought they were meta-gaming, which the DM really frowns on.
I was not DM'ing, so not my place to say "wait a minute guys, you are meta-gaming". But I know that from now on, my players will get this: I will tell them "You see a caster mumble something and wave his hands. Make a Constitution Save" Even if they roll a 20, I will say "Suddenly, all you see is Blackness.", even if I actually used Darkness.
I am sure some will say "Have a conversation with the players first about what their chars can know, and what they can't." But in the heat of the game, things happen. Players either forget, or choose to ignore those restrictions on meta-gaming, or worse, don't know they are doing it.
There's a difference between being blinded and being in darkness, so it's arguably logical that they try to leave it. [REDACTED]
I have a weird sense of humor.
I also make maps.(That's a link)
How do they know the difference?
Darkness just creates darkness that can't be seen through with darkvision. You can still see enough in darkness to know that you're seeing something, even if you can't tell what. [REDACTED]
I have a weird sense of humor.
I also make maps.(That's a link)
Magical Darkness blocks all normal sight, and Darkvision. You are in effect, subject to the Blinded Condition. If you don't know basic rules of the game.......
No you said it right at the end there. If the DM had a problem with what PC1 did they could/would have stopped it.
The spell doesn't say you are blinded so it is very much the "walking to the bathroom at midnight sort of moment."
The character didn't know how big the darkness was, but do assume the the character would what, stand still, in the darkness when they just saw a dragon? If you saw the space as a character, it is not unreasonable to move in a straight line in the exact direction you want until you are free of the darkness.
the only instance of meta gaming I see is the cleric using their ability because how would they know to use their ability? The action clearly calls out magical darkness, and as you said none of you had experience with the spell so how would they know to use an ability that only effects magical darkness?
Movement is not based on vision per the rules.
How does the Fighter know there is an edge to the spell? How does he know if it is 20 feet, 40 feet, or the entire room? How does he know he has not been Blinded? When I was a kid we went to a retired coal mine. We were warned, and the lights turned out. You WERE blind. It is the precisely the same effect.
5e basically tried to nerf the perception tricks by making it so you automatically know where things are unless they actually take an action to hide. It's not super realistic but it's a lot less annoying than 'pick a square and hope the target is in it'.
Why would the fighter not attempt to run? If I were suddenly enveloped in darkness I'd sure try and find a way out. These are also worlds where magic is very real so couldn't someone know what the darkness spell is?
Also, the Light Cleric's Channel Divinity: Radiance of the Dawn, which I presume is the feature you mean, specifically banishes magical darkness. Why would the cleric NOT know that?
I'm really interested to know what you thought that first player should have done.
Lightning Strike - A rebranded Fire Bolt for Wizards & Sorcerers.
Spirit Bomb - A holy fireball for Clerics, Paladins, & Divine Soul Sorcerers!
Sword Dancer - A Cleric subclass specifically for the Drow goddess Eilistraee.
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I saw a thing recently that think fits in most situation. Magic is like an helicopter. Plus, it's a game, not a simulation. I think it's ok to allow that sort of things a little to speed up combats and make things less tedious. But that's only my opinion and how I play this game. You can play in your own way.
How does the player KNOW it is the Darkness spell, when they have never encountered it before. We started at level 1, so I know precisely what the players have been exposed to. The player could just as easily think they are blind. And how do they know the size and shape of the Darkness spell, even if they guessed what it was.
Like Is said, the Cleric did his thing, so I did not have to deal with the meta-gaming issue. But I was going to have my char shout "I can't see, can anyone?", and then take a shot in the dark, literally, with the bow I had in my hands. My char had no idea what was happening, since he could be blind, or someone turned the lights out. I would not have a clue which way to run.
HE DOESN'T - he moves until he is out. If that is 20 then he moved twenty and "Saw the light." Sorry but we're talking about not small children, it is very easy to have seen a room for a few minutes and the lights go out and be able to navigate. If you are FIGHTING A DRAGON to then as the fighter has every right in their knowledge run in the direction of the dragon and either 1) some how be able to see again 2)run into the dragon. Neither of those are meta gaming.
Go turn off a light and attempt to navigate through that part of the house - chances are you'll be able to do it with minor issues.
RE: The title of the thread - Yes we all meta game, but I feel you're using that term as a negative when it's not inherently negative. There is good, sometimes necessary, metagaming and bad, sometimes toxic, metagaming. It depends on the situation.
As to the specific situation, yes I suppose it can be annoying when people seem to know things they should not, but it's also not unreasonable to say that it was perceivably a result of spellcasting and something that could theoretically be in character knowledge. Is it something that was annoying enough to you to bring up as a problem? If it's detracting from your experience maybe you should open up a discussion about it.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
But how did the CLERIC know that it was magical darkness? Why is there "meta gaming" okay but the fighter's isn't? The cleric could have also "just been blind" so why did they use a channel divinity that ONLY works on magical darkness? You say that none of you have experience with the spell - so there is no way the cleric knew to use a channel divinity made for a magical darkness. If everyone was supposed to just "think they were blind" as you keep inferring everyone should have been thinking. The cleric was also meta gaming when they dispelled the darkness.
A lot of it depends on the campaign setting. In a High Magic world, there is going to be a fundamental level of understand of magic. A regular humanoid might not know the specifics of the spell, but is very likely to say, "Something's weird, must be magic".
While meta-gaming gets a bad wrap, we don't get the advantage of a 1st person perspective of the world. Our characters are going to be more insightful than we are simply because they can see the game world for what it is. There are patterns that can be intuited about magic, which don't require a genius to figure out. For example, a 20ft radius area effect is both common and on the larger side, so if in doubt, move 25ft in a random direction.
Beyond that a DM can freely declare how rare magic is in their world. If it's less common, then sure, players would do well to err on the side of ignorance. If a DM is worried about it, then they can do what you suggest, be vague, or modify the spells to defy expectation.
Further, note that the Darkness spell "expands outward from a point", so there is a transitional effect that a character could see, which would distinguish it from a targeted Blindness effect.
If you're playing with a battlemat, on powerpoint or a VTT you're metagaming period. Since most characters are presumed to have anthropomorphic cognition, they're not going to be processing space from a top down view, yet it's what so many of us do. When I used darkness I describe the characters affected suddenly standing in pitch black, if there are characters outside the darkness they can call out, or message etc. We don't use battle maps, but if directions are important and things need to be laid out, we use maps with "fog of war". I wouldn't inscribe a circle on the map for the players unless someone can witness the inscription anymore that I would draw a monster on the other side of a closed door.
That said, I don't think your DM did anything wrong. Sure when real people are thrust into darkness, their first move usually isn't to just run, but having had eyes on a black dragon, presume "magic" is probably a fair inference. When I have characters in smoke or darkness, I'll have them usually make some sort of check (athletics, perception, I'll take suggestions) to make sure the character keeps their bearing (advantage if there's audible assistance coming from one direction, disadvantage if multiple voices are kibitzing from different vectors). If they fail, they come out elsewhere within the 180 degree arc in front of the character. Would I insist the game be played this way if I was a character cast in darkness? No.
A Light cleric has been trained to cast magic to use light to confront all sorts of darkness, if you're going to claim metagaming you might as well cry foul about first level rangers having favored foes. Domains usually have identifiable antagonists. Like light and darkness. The reason why the Cleric has magical powers, channel divinity, and the armor and weapons training it has is because confronting that antagonist is part of the Cleric's job.
When it comes to the sort of meta-gaming "foul" you seem to be crying, it's ultimately up to the DM to adjudicate when player knowledge crosses the line. If you want something grittier, talk to you DM; but using the instance as some sort of "gotcha" indictment against players broadly? I just don't see it.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Good for you. An equally valid, reasonable, and logical response is to attempt to leave and find light.
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Sword Dancer - A Cleric subclass specifically for the Drow goddess Eilistraee.
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You are correct. Look at my initial post. Both were meta-gaming.
Perhaps I should clarify one thing. The Fighter knew the original location of the Dragon before magic was cast. The Dragon remained stationary. The Fighter DID NOT move in a straight line towards the Dragon, but in a straight line at a 45 degree angle in relation to the Dragon. He moved solely to escape a spell he had zero knowledge of the mechanics of, and could not even know what spell it was. As I have said repeatedly, he could just as easily have failed a save for Blindness. The resultant condition would be identical.
It is incumbent on DM's to keep this kind of information hidden from the player as much as possible to avoid meta-gaming. In the online situation I originally described, it is virtually impossible for the DM to do so, and has to rely on the integrity of the players.