Jeremy Crawford ( @JeremyECrawford) just posted this to twitter less than an hour ago and I thought I would share as there has been some discussion on this.
"In Tasha's Cauldron of Everything, the custom lineage option is chosen in lieu of a race, such as elf or dwarf. If you choose the custom lineage, you don't qualify for things in the game that require elf, dwarf, and the like."
Obviously you can play it how you like at your tables, but apparently this was the intent of the rules.
I mean - it was also pretty ovbious from the wording of the option but *shrug* some people chose to ignore the words.
Thought most people will simply say "A tweet is not an offical ruling" until this ends up in SAC, to which they'll then say "SAC is not RAW' and so on to justify their wants
In reality it is just as you say - you do you - but RAW is written as RAI
I would think that it would be obvious that taking the custom lineage option would preclude being one of the published races/lineages. That said, if a DM allowed it, I'm sure someone will want to be a "new" type of elf/dwarf/etc to still gain some sort of benefit.
Outside of racial feats and certain magic items, what would be the benefit of being considered a certain "race/lineage" (assuming that we exclude the typical racial/lineage traits)?
I would think that it would be obvious that taking the custom lineage option would preclude being one of the published races/lineages. That said, if a DM allowed it, I'm sure someone will want to be a "new" type of elf/dwarf/etc to still gain some sort of benefit.
Outside of racial feats and certain magic items, what would be the benefit of being considered a certain "race/lineage" (assuming that we exclude the typical racial/lineage traits)?
Most of the discussion I have seen and been part of comes down to just "Do they qualify for the Feats".
I don't know why anyone assumed anything different. Custom Lineage was obviously intended to account for edge cases like "I'm a haunted doll created by a lich to be his adopted daughter, but then Adventurers killed the lich and took me with them."
CL as a stand-in for existing species has never made sense.
I don't know why anyone assumed anything different. Custom Lineage was obviously intended to account for edge cases like "I'm a haunted doll created by a lich to be his adopted daughter, but then Adventurers killed the lich and took me with them."
CL as a stand-in for existing species has never made sense.
That is how I have always seen it as well.
Also
That would be a great backstory for a Reborn Lineage Character, may I borrow that?
Heh. To be fair, it's the backstory for a character a buddy of mine made. I can't give permission,. but he can. He's demanded a link to this thread so he'll be along shortly :P
I don't know why anyone assumed anything different. Custom Lineage was obviously intended to account for edge cases like "I'm a haunted doll created by a lich to be his adopted daughter, but then Adventurers killed the lich and took me with them."
CL as a stand-in for existing species has never made sense.
That is how I have always seen it as well.
Also
That would be a great backstory for a Reborn Lineage Character, may I borrow that?
Yes... good... *good* The legend continues. You may absolutely borrow Doll. This was her original build before the lineages released ... I'm going to have to take another look at that now .... https://ddb.ac/characters/26943242/IxxFyO
"I once knew this fella, Aasimar raised in the Underdark. Was like a brother to me. When he escaped we couldn't take much with us. Poor, emaciated husks of the living we were. 'ts okay though. We survived and made our ways. I'll never forget the way the people from my home looked at us when we walked in the archway. Though, I'm frighteningly certain the feelings they would have, had they but the opportunity ta see us leave." --Manolovo the Traitor, Memoirs of a Scoundrel
CL as a stand-in for existing species has never made sense.
I see this said a lot but it's also one of the most common uses I've seen for the option. Someone will want to play a Dragonborn or a weird elf but hates everything about their default mechanics so they ask me if they can use CL instead because they can tailor it to their liking plus feats are fun and 5e is horrifically stingy with them.
CL as a stand-in for existing species has never made sense.
I see this said a lot but it's also one of the most common uses I've seen for the option. Someone will want to play a Dragonborn or a weird elf but hates everything about their default mechanics so they ask me if they can use CL instead because they can tailor it to their liking plus feats are fun and 5e is horrifically stingy with them.
I don't like this idea. CL isn't meant to be a replacement because you want to make min-maxed variant human character but call it a dragonborn/halfling/tielfling. And don't argue that it's to avoid racial stereotypes/create racial traits that make sense for your character. The Customize Your Origin option does that just fine.
All stars fade. Some stars forever fall. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Homebrew (Mostly Outdated):Magic Items,Monsters,Spells,Subclasses ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If there was no light, people wouldn't fear the dark.
Might not be meant for it, but it's a great tool for divesting that mechanical concern and letting people create characters more freely and openly, which is neat.
All stars fade. Some stars forever fall. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Homebrew (Mostly Outdated):Magic Items,Monsters,Spells,Subclasses ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If there was no light, people wouldn't fear the dark.
I agree with Crawford but from content released perspective it's a weird shift. Ideally, you'd want each player to have a PHB, Xanathar, and Tashas. Both books for the most part are just 100% compatible, and this feature isn't.
CL as a stand-in for existing species has never made sense.
I see this said a lot but it's also one of the most common uses I've seen for the option. Someone will want to play a Dragonborn or a weird elf but hates everything about their default mechanics so they ask me if they can use CL instead because they can tailor it to their liking plus feats are fun and 5e is horrifically stingy with them.
This is what I use Custom Lineage for. You're still an Elf, but you're giving up the things that make you an Elf because of X Y Z reasons.
At my table, I'd be ok with either. If I was with another DM and they said hey, this means you aren't a Elf? I'd be okay with that too. The question then becomes well ok, WHAT am I. My race is humanoid, same as elf, half elf, orc, whatever. I get none of the elvish benefits or penalties, I just identify as an elf. If my backstory is I've been raised and trained by them, and I identify that way, who's to say I can't take Elven Accuracy.
I think the end game logic behind that tweet, which again, perfectly happy with? It just opens way too many What if scenarios from a rules perspective and creates far too many adjudication issues. End of the day, run your tables how you want. I honestly don't think Crawford should have tweeted that. It's going to be misconstrued the absolute wrong way.
Edit: Final note, makes Rangers even more worthless. Can't "favored enemy" custom lineage anything.
To be fair, I'm not opposed to using Custom Lineage as a stand-in for existing species. Or rather, my brain is not opposed to it. My gut doesn't like it, it smacks of nonsense to me, but I understand why people do it and it'd be mighty hypocritical of me to tell folks "NUHH SCREW YER COMFERT" when I fight so hard for the Tasha's rules in the first place, so my gut is firmly overruled. But yeah. I never understood why people thought that was the default, designer-intended use of Custom Lineage.
To be fair, I'm not opposed to using Custom Lineage as a stand-in for existing species. Or rather, my brain is not opposed to it. My gut doesn't like it, it smacks of nonsense to me, but I understand why people do it and it'd be mighty hypocritical of me to tell folks "NUHH SCREW YER COMFERT" when I fight so hard for the Tasha's rules in the first place, so my gut is firmly overruled. But yeah. I never understood why people thought that was the default, designer-intended use of Custom Lineage.
I'm pretty sure the Customize Your Origin option in Tasha's was created for adapting existing races. Using CL to do the exact same thing but with more optimized features doesn't seem right to me.
All stars fade. Some stars forever fall. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Homebrew (Mostly Outdated):Magic Items,Monsters,Spells,Subclasses ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If there was no light, people wouldn't fear the dark.
To be fair, I'm not opposed to using Custom Lineage as a stand-in for existing species. Or rather, my brain is not opposed to it. My gut doesn't like it, it smacks of nonsense to me, but I understand why people do it and it'd be mighty hypocritical of me to tell folks "NUHH SCREW YER COMFERT" when I fight so hard for the Tasha's rules in the first place, so my gut is firmly overruled. But yeah. I never understood why people thought that was the default, designer-intended use of Custom Lineage.
So this is the book's description of Custom Lineage:
The description of a race might suggest various things about the behavior and personality of that people’s archetypal adventurers. You may ignore those suggestions, whether they’re about alignment, moods, interests, or any other personality trait. Your character’s personality and behavior are entirely yours to determine.
CUSTOM LINEAGE
Instead of choosing one of the game’s races for your character at 1st level, you can use the following traits to represent your character’s lineage, giving you full control over how your character’s origin shaped them:
Creature Type. You are a humanoid. You determine your appearance and whether you resemble any of your kin.
Size. You are Small or Medium (your choice).
Speed. Your base walking speed is 30 feet.
Ability Score Increase. One ability score of your choice increases by 2.
Feat. You gain one feat of your choice for which you qualify.
Variable Trait. You gain one of the following options of your choice: (a) darkvision with a range of 60 feet or (b) proficiency in one skill of your choice.
Languages. You can speak, read, and write Common and one other language that you and your DM agree is appropriate for your character.
That's it. So it never specifically calls out what race you might be, just that you're humanoid. I like the concept! Races, as they exist, are a hardcoded concept, and if there's a player that wants to really explore something unique this gives them a chance to do that, but, at the end of the day, you are a sum of parts. You have ancestry. You might not like it, but it still exists.
So while the verbiage specifically states "You don't choose a race at level 1", it's just extremely vague with what that really means.
If my backstory is I've been raised and trained by them, and I identify that way, who's to say I can't take Elven Accuracy.
This is the exact sort of thing the system as is is not set up to handle. It's easily houseruled/handled through DM fiat, which is what I'd do, but exactly because racial qualities are not set up as a buffet of options using CL as a way to rebuild existing races doesn't work right. Doing this in an official/standardized way would require a big overhaul of the ruleset. I don't really want to rehash the pros and cons of that approach again here, so I'm just going to reiterate that without that overhaul the most convenient approach here is to simply have a conversation with your DM instead of trying to make the rules do what they're not intended or created to do.
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She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
I mean - it was also pretty ovbious from the wording of the option but *shrug* some people chose to ignore the words.
Thought most people will simply say "A tweet is not an offical ruling" until this ends up in SAC, to which they'll then say "SAC is not RAW' and so on to justify their wants
In reality it is just as you say - you do you - but RAW is written as RAI
I would think that it would be obvious that taking the custom lineage option would preclude being one of the published races/lineages. That said, if a DM allowed it, I'm sure someone will want to be a "new" type of elf/dwarf/etc to still gain some sort of benefit.
Outside of racial feats and certain magic items, what would be the benefit of being considered a certain "race/lineage" (assuming that we exclude the typical racial/lineage traits)?
Most of the discussion I have seen and been part of comes down to just "Do they qualify for the Feats".
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
I don't know why anyone assumed anything different. Custom Lineage was obviously intended to account for edge cases like "I'm a haunted doll created by a lich to be his adopted daughter, but then Adventurers killed the lich and took me with them."
CL as a stand-in for existing species has never made sense.
Please do not contact or message me.
That is how I have always seen it as well.
Also
That would be a great backstory for a Reborn Lineage Character, may I borrow that?
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
Heh. To be fair, it's the backstory for a character a buddy of mine made. I can't give permission,. but he can. He's demanded a link to this thread so he'll be along shortly :P
Please do not contact or message me.
Yes... good... *good* The legend continues. You may absolutely borrow Doll.
This was her original build before the lineages released ... I'm going to have to take another look at that now ....
https://ddb.ac/characters/26943242/IxxFyO
"I once knew this fella, Aasimar raised in the Underdark. Was like a brother to me. When he escaped we couldn't take much with us. Poor, emaciated husks of the living we were. 'ts okay though. We survived and made our ways. I'll never forget the way the people from my home looked at us when we walked in the archway. Though, I'm frighteningly certain the feelings they would have, had they but the opportunity ta see us leave." --Manolovo the Traitor, Memoirs of a Scoundrel
I see this said a lot but it's also one of the most common uses I've seen for the option. Someone will want to play a Dragonborn or a weird elf but hates everything about their default mechanics so they ask me if they can use CL instead because they can tailor it to their liking plus feats are fun and 5e is horrifically stingy with them.
I don't like this idea. CL isn't meant to be a replacement because you want to make min-maxed variant human character but call it a dragonborn/halfling/tielfling. And don't argue that it's to avoid racial stereotypes/create racial traits that make sense for your character. The Customize Your Origin option does that just fine.
All stars fade. Some stars forever fall.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Homebrew (Mostly Outdated): Magic Items, Monsters, Spells, Subclasses
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If there was no light, people wouldn't fear the dark.
Might not be meant for it, but it's a great tool for divesting that mechanical concern and letting people create characters more freely and openly, which is neat.
I dOn'T cArE wHaT hE sAyS! I'm going to make Blane the &%#!@ who's grand parents were a dwarf, an elf, an orc, and a tiefling.
I have questions... but if that's what you want to play, then by all means, play it.
All stars fade. Some stars forever fall.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Homebrew (Mostly Outdated): Magic Items, Monsters, Spells, Subclasses
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If there was no light, people wouldn't fear the dark.
So it's interesting, right.
I agree with Crawford but from content released perspective it's a weird shift. Ideally, you'd want each player to have a PHB, Xanathar, and Tashas. Both books for the most part are just 100% compatible, and this feature isn't.
This is what I use Custom Lineage for. You're still an Elf, but you're giving up the things that make you an Elf because of X Y Z reasons.
At my table, I'd be ok with either. If I was with another DM and they said hey, this means you aren't a Elf? I'd be okay with that too. The question then becomes well ok, WHAT am I. My race is humanoid, same as elf, half elf, orc, whatever. I get none of the elvish benefits or penalties, I just identify as an elf. If my backstory is I've been raised and trained by them, and I identify that way, who's to say I can't take Elven Accuracy.
I think the end game logic behind that tweet, which again, perfectly happy with? It just opens way too many What if scenarios from a rules perspective and creates far too many adjudication issues. End of the day, run your tables how you want. I honestly don't think Crawford should have tweeted that. It's going to be misconstrued the absolute wrong way.
Edit: Final note, makes Rangers even more worthless. Can't "favored enemy" custom lineage anything.
To be fair, I'm not opposed to using Custom Lineage as a stand-in for existing species. Or rather, my brain is not opposed to it. My gut doesn't like it, it smacks of nonsense to me, but I understand why people do it and it'd be mighty hypocritical of me to tell folks "NUHH SCREW YER COMFERT" when I fight so hard for the Tasha's rules in the first place, so my gut is firmly overruled. But yeah. I never understood why people thought that was the default, designer-intended use of Custom Lineage.
Please do not contact or message me.
I'm pretty sure the Customize Your Origin option in Tasha's was created for adapting existing races. Using CL to do the exact same thing but with more optimized features doesn't seem right to me.
All stars fade. Some stars forever fall.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Homebrew (Mostly Outdated): Magic Items, Monsters, Spells, Subclasses
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If there was no light, people wouldn't fear the dark.
So this is the book's description of Custom Lineage:
That's it. So it never specifically calls out what race you might be, just that you're humanoid. I like the concept! Races, as they exist, are a hardcoded concept, and if there's a player that wants to really explore something unique this gives them a chance to do that, but, at the end of the day, you are a sum of parts. You have ancestry. You might not like it, but it still exists.
So while the verbiage specifically states "You don't choose a race at level 1", it's just extremely vague with what that really means.
Using customize tools to create an Elf is silly. Just be an Elf.
If you want to be part Elf-ish and part something else then you shouldn't be surprised that Elf stuff doesn't work for you. (Elf Stones of Shannara)
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
this is the line that makes you not a dwarf, elf, tiefling:
You chose a set of features to represent you, however the CL calls out that you are not a game race - hence why you can't get racial feats.
This is the exact sort of thing the system as is is not set up to handle. It's easily houseruled/handled through DM fiat, which is what I'd do, but exactly because racial qualities are not set up as a buffet of options using CL as a way to rebuild existing races doesn't work right. Doing this in an official/standardized way would require a big overhaul of the ruleset. I don't really want to rehash the pros and cons of that approach again here, so I'm just going to reiterate that without that overhaul the most convenient approach here is to simply have a conversation with your DM instead of trying to make the rules do what they're not intended or created to do.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].