In the first chapter of descent into Avernus there is a level two dungeon that literally has a level 4 monster and a level 2 monster in the same room. The dungeon of the dead three is huge and has loads of stuff in, it is WAY to hard for level 2 characters
Which dungeon and which location? I've skimmed through it and there's nothing that seems too much for a party of 4 or 5 level two characters. A fair few of the encounters are also not meant to be resolved as straight up fights.
Yeah, I guessed that much, but which location? Like lunali said, the worst appears to be a cr4 and some cr1/2, nothing impossible.
You guys mean CR4 and CR1/4 right?
This would definitely be a tough fight for less than 6 level 2 characters, but it is off to the side of the map and retreat is always an option. And victory is not impossible.
Yeah, I guessed that much, but which location? Like lunali said, the worst appears to be a cr4 and some cr1/2, nothing impossible.
You guys mean CR4 and CR1/4 right?
This would definitely be a tough fight for less than 6 level 2 characters, but it is off to the side of the map and retreat is always an option. And victory is not impossible.
Not sure how I did that, calculated the fight difficulty off 4+1/4 but was convinced it was actually 4+1/2.
So we played this last night, and I have issue in the fact that you walk in and in the CR4 stat block they have fireball memorized... So yay for just instant death to anyone not a HP monster, secondly this is where the real discussion comes in, in her stat block under actions it list they do scorching ray as 3rd lvl spell burn up their other 3rd lvl spell slot as they were cast raise dead as you walked in. So my thing is this.. With their action block so well defined would they even default to their other spells? Several of us GM running at the place we are playing are discussing this because they are just op for lvl 2 group with one attack. Not to mention the yellow mold earlier wrecked some of us. I mean I know 5e in the monster manual states: "When a monster takes its action, it can choose from the options in the Actions section of its stat block or use one of the actions available to all creatures, such as the Dash or Hide action, as described in the Player's Handbook. " So does that mean they can only use their action block or can they cast spells the have memorized *getting in the weeds here and may not fit in this topic* because there other implications if that is true. In the end I know it up the DM and in all truth and I would casted the fireball also but it just felt more broken than not.
Can you point out which area of which dungeon you encountered this CR4 creature with fireball? I've gone through all the creatures in the Dungeon of the Dead Three and can't find anyone who knows fireball
Looking at that, sure it'd be a tough (ie deadly) fight, assuming the players aren't smart about it. But nothing impossible. But it's 2 creatures against an assumed party of 4 or 5, they're going to have the action economy on their side.
As for your other question, it just seems they've decide to present the most commonly used options as actions to save time. There's nothing stopping usual spellcasting
Looking at that, sure it'd be a tough (ie deadly) fight, assuming the players aren't smart about it. But nothing impossible. But it's 2 creatures against an assumed party of 4 or 5, they're going to have the action economy on their side.
As for your other question, it just seems they've decide to present the most commonly used options as actions to save time. There's nothing stopping usual spellcasting
As to the first part, yes she is drop-able, she is written as a glass cannon there is no argument there, but with the map layout, party assumed lvl and the other stuff in the dungeon leading into her room there seems a bit of disparity. Most characters at lvl 2 and fireball ( 8d6 avg damage 32 /half 16) are pretty much dead. Mean as I said the scorching ray using up her other 3rd lvl slot makes the fight seem more reasonable instead of dusting the party. I guess I am to much of a fair gm to not question something like this there.
As to part 2, that what I was figuring but wanted to make sure they didn't do some other change. I have fun trying to remember how diff 5e is from the others on things.
I'm not sure what you're asking? Are you saying you assume that each of the dead three has a presence in the dungeon represented by their associated monster type, but you can't find the monster "black gauntlet of bane"? If so, then maybe your assumption about each of the dead three having a 'representative' is incorrect
Wow great response. Yes that was my assumption. Since 2 of the gods are represented by a Leader i did assume that the 3rd god would also be represented. All i was asking is this correct or have missed a vital part. I have found when you come across the"black gauntlet of bane" so all good.
I think it was very poorly designed and by it I mean the entire Baldur's Gate part of the adventure. It feels tacked on and poorly play tested.
Level 1 parties shouldn't face 8 enemies one of which is CR 2 with 3 attacks. And the "they are supposed to recruit help from the npc's" is a garbage cop out. It is terribly balanced which means terrible design.
Level 2 parties shouldn't face a fireball slinging mage. If she wins initiative that is a TPK unless the DM shows mercy. Which means that is terrible design.
And if that fireball doesn't kill them let them walk a little farther down the path with a torch lit. Because that 2nd level party nursing wounds from that fight and others really needs to be blown up for some reason. That is terrible design.
And then for poop and grins lets give almost all the encounters advantage on all saves because this 2nd level party deserves to be crapped on some more. Oh yeah add in the lady that makes people vulnerable to piercing damage and give her 2 attacks, and the ability to turn invisible too because the twice blown up 2nd level party really needs to be taken down a peg.
Then lets take that lady and make her hit harder, give her a stun attack, and the ability to negate damage received 3 time s a day because screw that 2nd level party.
Oh they died in the first explosion...well here is a big stupid fighter at the very end to help out....Terrible design.
Yep, agree with everything mentioned above. I nerfed the Elfsong Tavern battle and I didn't allow fireball for the death cultist, because quite frankly a death cultist would just lure them all into a room and nuke it, bringing the roof down killing everyone, cultist included... I couldn't see how it wasn't going to kill them. They've made it to Avernus now and there are still later encounters that have been pretty tough but they've at least got a chance of bringing party members back. Indeed at this point they've blown through all their earnings on healing pots and spell ingredients to get other PCs back up becuase they've realised they're all dead if they don't.
Definitely the least balanced adventure I've run in a long time. It's a cool setting but the adventure itself I'm less enamoured with. It's very railroady early on and had I not tweaked some of the NPCs motivations (Mortlock being the biggy) and added some NPCs of my own, some of it just doesn't give the PCs enough motivation to progress.
In the first chapter of descent into Avernus there is a level two dungeon that literally has a level 4 monster and a level 2 monster in the same room. The dungeon of the dead three is huge and has loads of stuff in, it is WAY to hard for level 2 characters
Which dungeon and which location? I've skimmed through it and there's nothing that seems too much for a party of 4 or 5 level two characters. A fair few of the encounters are also not meant to be resolved as straight up fights.
Find my D&D Beyond articles here
The closest I could find is the morgue, which has a CR4 and a CR1/2. That makes it double deadly, but not insurmountable.
It’s the dungeons of the dead three
Yeah, I guessed that much, but which location? Like lunali said, the worst appears to be a cr4 and some cr1/2, nothing impossible.
Find my D&D Beyond articles here
You guys mean CR4 and CR1/4 right?
This would definitely be a tough fight for less than 6 level 2 characters, but it is off to the side of the map and retreat is always an option. And victory is not impossible.
Not sure how I did that, calculated the fight difficulty off 4+1/4 but was convinced it was actually 4+1/2.
So we played this last night, and I have issue in the fact that you walk in and in the CR4 stat block they have fireball memorized... So yay for just instant death to anyone not a HP monster, secondly this is where the real discussion comes in, in her stat block under actions it list they do scorching ray as 3rd lvl spell burn up their other 3rd lvl spell slot as they were cast raise dead as you walked in. So my thing is this.. With their action block so well defined would they even default to their other spells? Several of us GM running at the place we are playing are discussing this because they are just op for lvl 2 group with one attack. Not to mention the yellow mold earlier wrecked some of us. I mean I know 5e in the monster manual states: "When a monster takes its action, it can choose from the options in the Actions section of its stat block or use one of the actions available to all creatures, such as the Dash or Hide action, as described in the Player's Handbook. " So does that mean they can only use their action block or can they cast spells the have memorized *getting in the weeds here and may not fit in this topic* because there other implications if that is true. In the end I know it up the DM and in all truth and I would casted the fireball also but it just felt more broken than not.
Can you point out which area of which dungeon you encountered this CR4 creature with fireball? I've gone through all the creatures in the Dungeon of the Dead Three and can't find anyone who knows fireball
Find my D&D Beyond articles here
Sure, but first off her stated block isn't listed by name, she is listed as Master of souls or Mistress of Souls, I don't have the book at work.
Room 13
Looking at that, sure it'd be a tough (ie deadly) fight, assuming the players aren't smart about it. But nothing impossible. But it's 2 creatures against an assumed party of 4 or 5, they're going to have the action economy on their side.
As for your other question, it just seems they've decide to present the most commonly used options as actions to save time. There's nothing stopping usual spellcasting
Find my D&D Beyond articles here
As to the first part, yes she is drop-able, she is written as a glass cannon there is no argument there, but with the map layout, party assumed lvl and the other stuff in the dungeon leading into her room there seems a bit of disparity. Most characters at lvl 2 and fireball ( 8d6 avg damage 32 /half 16) are pretty much dead. Mean as I said the scorching ray using up her other 3rd lvl slot makes the fight seem more reasonable instead of dusting the party. I guess I am to much of a fair gm to not question something like this there.
As to part 2, that what I was figuring but wanted to make sure they didn't do some other change. I have fun trying to remember how diff 5e is from the others on things.
When we faced her with our party we managed to sneak on her enough that if she casted the fireball, she would have taken the damage also.
So the GM went with the decision of not using it, since she din't want to risk her own life like this.
"Normality is but an Illusion, Whats normal to the Spider, is only madness for the Fly"
Kain de Frostberg- Dark Knight - (Vengeance Pal3/ Hexblade 9), Port Mourn
Kain de Draakberg-Dark Knight lvl8-Avergreen(DitA)
The dungeon of the dead three
Area 13
Probably a stupid question. The Dungeon is "The dungeon of the dead three" referring to Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul.
Bhaal is represented by Vaaz (Death Head of Bhaal) found in room D29 and then again in room D33
Myrkul is represnetd by Flennis (Master of Souls) found in D13
I can not find "Black gauntlet of Bane" .......can someone please help me
I'm not sure what you're asking? Are you saying you assume that each of the dead three has a presence in the dungeon represented by their associated monster type, but you can't find the monster "black gauntlet of bane"? If so, then maybe your assumption about each of the dead three having a 'representative' is incorrect
Find my D&D Beyond articles here
Wow great response. Yes that was my assumption. Since 2 of the gods are represented by a Leader i did assume that the 3rd god would also be represented. All i was asking is this correct or have missed a vital part. I have found when you come across the"black gauntlet of bane" so all good.
I think it was very poorly designed and by it I mean the entire Baldur's Gate part of the adventure. It feels tacked on and poorly play tested.
Level 1 parties shouldn't face 8 enemies one of which is CR 2 with 3 attacks. And the "they are supposed to recruit help from the npc's" is a garbage cop out. It is terribly balanced which means terrible design.
Level 2 parties shouldn't face a fireball slinging mage. If she wins initiative that is a TPK unless the DM shows mercy. Which means that is terrible design.
And if that fireball doesn't kill them let them walk a little farther down the path with a torch lit. Because that 2nd level party nursing wounds from that fight and others really needs to be blown up for some reason. That is terrible design.
And then for poop and grins lets give almost all the encounters advantage on all saves because this 2nd level party deserves to be crapped on some more. Oh yeah add in the lady that makes people vulnerable to piercing damage and give her 2 attacks, and the ability to turn invisible too because the twice blown up 2nd level party really needs to be taken down a peg.
Then lets take that lady and make her hit harder, give her a stun attack, and the ability to negate damage received 3 time s a day because screw that 2nd level party.
Oh they died in the first explosion...well here is a big stupid fighter at the very end to help out....Terrible design.
Yep, agree with everything mentioned above. I nerfed the Elfsong Tavern battle and I didn't allow fireball for the death cultist, because quite frankly a death cultist would just lure them all into a room and nuke it, bringing the roof down killing everyone, cultist included... I couldn't see how it wasn't going to kill them. They've made it to Avernus now and there are still later encounters that have been pretty tough but they've at least got a chance of bringing party members back. Indeed at this point they've blown through all their earnings on healing pots and spell ingredients to get other PCs back up becuase they've realised they're all dead if they don't.
Definitely the least balanced adventure I've run in a long time. It's a cool setting but the adventure itself I'm less enamoured with. It's very railroady early on and had I not tweaked some of the NPCs motivations (Mortlock being the biggy) and added some NPCs of my own, some of it just doesn't give the PCs enough motivation to progress.