Ah my first consistent firm and organised campaign. Oh how long I have been waiting for this. I, the DM, have a group of 5 players, each with their own unique characters and have all had experience before except one. This one I know well in real life, and they are experiencing a few struggles so I want to ensure they have D&D to fall back on. Their character is an elf bard and they have limited experience in such roleplaying. Naturally, being a bard, their speciality is charisma, but there is a problem. There is another bard. The other bard plays very humorously and is somewhat sub-optimal except for his charisma, which bests our other bard's. This leaves our struggling player feeling kind of worthless, as they don't know entirely what they serve to the party that someone else doesn't do better. I've already put lots of work into trying to help and I'm getting somewhere (mostly relating to backstory and its affects on the campaign), but I thought I should also ask for some extra help.
My experience is that several characters trying to fill the same niche is a bad idea, unless the players are really experienced and responsive . My advice is to let the new player change class to something that the party needs, with abilities that doesn't compete with other characters, and that you help the player out with background etc to make shure it fits into your campaign.
Ah my first consistent firm and organised campaign. Oh how long I have been waiting for this. I, the DM, have a group of 5 players, each with their own unique characters and have all had experience before except one. This one I know well in real life, and they are experiencing a few struggles so I want to ensure they have D&D to fall back on. Their character is an elf bard and they have limited experience in such roleplaying. Naturally, being a bard, their speciality is charisma, but there is a problem. There is another bard. The other bard plays very humorously and is somewhat sub-optimal except for his charisma, which bests our other bard's. This leaves our struggling player feeling kind of worthless, as they don't know entirely what they serve to the party that someone else doesn't do better. I've already put lots of work into trying to help and I'm getting somewhere (mostly relating to backstory and its affects on the campaign), but I thought I should also ask for some extra help.
Thank you in advance.
If am reading this correctly, the player with the least experience (zero, is that correct?), took a complicated character class to play, right off the start. That already spells trouble. And if there is an experienced player already playing a Bard, yeah, this will be frustration for the new player. I would suggest the new player switch up to a Fighter class, with some magical abilities, like Eldritch Knight. I would steer them clear of the superior gish, the Hexblade, because, once again, a Warlock is so non-traditional in its mechanocs, it can mess with a new player.
You might be able to salvage some of the backstory.
My experience is that several characters trying to fill the same niche is a bad idea, unless the players are really experienced and responsive . My advice is to let the new player change class to something that the party needs, with abilities that doesn't compete with other characters, and that you help the player out with background etc to make shure it fits into your campaign.
We are already reasonably far into the campaign. As always in my experience everyone made their characters individually with no regard for the other's characters (maybe that's normal I wouldn't know). I have found a niche for them to fit, being a focus on inspiration. The plan hasn't been mobilised yet but I have hopes. Additionally (since elven souls reincarnate), I had the idea of roping a previous elven life into her current character, specifically a few vengeful side-villains who still want revenge against a dead elven adventurer, or that adventurer's reincarnation at least. From there I have the idea when the reincarnation thing is discovered, they will have the option to multiclass into a sorcerer, given other details unnecessary for this. I doubt the multiclassing will happen though, given they are new and don't really understand the other classes.
As for their background, yes it does fit, perhaps the best because the others' backgrounds are more... out there. But their background rather simple, uneventful, and I am at a loss at how to build on it (and I have tried a lot). Hence I came up with the idea of roping the reincarnation thing in.
Pre-planning is kind of out the window at this point sadly. Thank you for your advice, and if you have any other advice I would greatly appreciate it.
Ah my first consistent firm and organised campaign. Oh how long I have been waiting for this. I, the DM, have a group of 5 players, each with their own unique characters and have all had experience before except one. This one I know well in real life, and they are experiencing a few struggles so I want to ensure they have D&D to fall back on. Their character is an elf bard and they have limited experience in such roleplaying. Naturally, being a bard, their speciality is charisma, but there is a problem. There is another bard. The other bard plays very humorously and is somewhat sub-optimal except for his charisma, which bests our other bard's. This leaves our struggling player feeling kind of worthless, as they don't know entirely what they serve to the party that someone else doesn't do better. I've already put lots of work into trying to help and I'm getting somewhere (mostly relating to backstory and its affects on the campaign), but I thought I should also ask for some extra help.
Thank you in advance.
If am reading this correctly, the player with the least experience (zero, is that correct?), took a complicated character class to play, right off the start. That already spells trouble. And if there is an experienced player already playing a Bard, yeah, this will be frustration for the new player. I would suggest the new player switch up to a Fighter class, with some magical abilities, like Eldritch Knight. I would steer them clear of the superior gish, the Hexblade, because, once again, a Warlock is so non-traditional in its mechanocs, it can mess with a new player.
You might be able to salvage some of the backstory.
I wouldn't know that Bards are a complicated class. It is the only class I have felt "why does this exist? why do people enjoy this?" about. They do have a tiny bit of experience, but only as an elf bard. Both of those aspects particularly resonate with them, and they have little to no (presumable) interest in any other class, especially not a melee fighter.
Thank you for your advice, but I sadly don't believe I can apply it here. If you have any other advice that would be appreciated as well.
Ah my first consistent firm and organised campaign. Oh how long I have been waiting for this. I, the DM, have a group of 5 players, each with their own unique characters and have all had experience before except one. This one I know well in real life, and they are experiencing a few struggles so I want to ensure they have D&D to fall back on. Their character is an elf bard and they have limited experience in such roleplaying. Naturally, being a bard, their speciality is charisma, but there is a problem. There is another bard. The other bard plays very humorously and is somewhat sub-optimal except for his charisma, which bests our other bard's. This leaves our struggling player feeling kind of worthless, as they don't know entirely what they serve to the party that someone else doesn't do better. I've already put lots of work into trying to help and I'm getting somewhere (mostly relating to backstory and its affects on the campaign), but I thought I should also ask for some extra help.
Thank you in advance.
If am reading this correctly, the player with the least experience (zero, is that correct?), took a complicated character class to play, right off the start. That already spells trouble. And if there is an experienced player already playing a Bard, yeah, this will be frustration for the new player. I would suggest the new player switch up to a Fighter class, with some magical abilities, like Eldritch Knight. I would steer them clear of the superior gish, the Hexblade, because, once again, a Warlock is so non-traditional in its mechanocs, it can mess with a new player.
You might be able to salvage some of the backstory.
I wouldn't know that Bards are a complicated class. It is the only class I have felt "why does this exist? why do people enjoy this?" about. They do have a tiny bit of experience, but only as an elf bard. Both of those aspects particularly resonate with them, and they have little to no (presumable) interest in any other class, especially not a melee fighter.
Thank you for your advice, but I sadly don't believe I can apply it here. If you have any other advice that would be appreciated as well.
OK, so melee fighter is out. If I am reading your post correctly, this player has only experience playing in playing an Elf Bard, and you are sure they will play no other class, or at least enjoy it. Is that accurate?
Ah my first consistent firm and organised campaign. Oh how long I have been waiting for this. I, the DM, have a group of 5 players, each with their own unique characters and have all had experience before except one. This one I know well in real life, and they are experiencing a few struggles so I want to ensure they have D&D to fall back on. Their character is an elf bard and they have limited experience in such roleplaying. Naturally, being a bard, their speciality is charisma, but there is a problem. There is another bard. The other bard plays very humorously and is somewhat sub-optimal except for his charisma, which bests our other bard's. This leaves our struggling player feeling kind of worthless, as they don't know entirely what they serve to the party that someone else doesn't do better. I've already put lots of work into trying to help and I'm getting somewhere (mostly relating to backstory and its affects on the campaign), but I thought I should also ask for some extra help.
Thank you in advance.
If am reading this correctly, the player with the least experience (zero, is that correct?), took a complicated character class to play, right off the start. That already spells trouble. And if there is an experienced player already playing a Bard, yeah, this will be frustration for the new player. I would suggest the new player switch up to a Fighter class, with some magical abilities, like Eldritch Knight. I would steer them clear of the superior gish, the Hexblade, because, once again, a Warlock is so non-traditional in its mechanocs, it can mess with a new player.
You might be able to salvage some of the backstory.
I wouldn't know that Bards are a complicated class. It is the only class I have felt "why does this exist? why do people enjoy this?" about. They do have a tiny bit of experience, but only as an elf bard. Both of those aspects particularly resonate with them, and they have little to no (presumable) interest in any other class, especially not a melee fighter.
Thank you for your advice, but I sadly don't believe I can apply it here. If you have any other advice that would be appreciated as well.
OK, so melee fighter is out. If I am reading your post correctly, this player has only experience playing in playing an Elf Bard, and you are sure they will play no other class, or at least enjoy it. Is that accurate?
Well... I couldn't say if they would enjoy a different class, but neither could they. I don't think they will enjoy a different class much as bard is what they know and they aren't great with change. Additionally they have expressed that they don't want to change too much. They don't want the change to be too drastic to be unreasonable given the campaign (eg a background or character change in the middle of the campaign for no apparent in game reason). I have looked to work around this (reading other posts on this threat you may notice the elf soul reincarnation idea).
Ah my first consistent firm and organised campaign. Oh how long I have been waiting for this. I, the DM, have a group of 5 players, each with their own unique characters and have all had experience before except one. This one I know well in real life, and they are experiencing a few struggles so I want to ensure they have D&D to fall back on. Their character is an elf bard and they have limited experience in such roleplaying. Naturally, being a bard, their speciality is charisma, but there is a problem. There is another bard. The other bard plays very humorously and is somewhat sub-optimal except for his charisma, which bests our other bard's. This leaves our struggling player feeling kind of worthless, as they don't know entirely what they serve to the party that someone else doesn't do better. I've already put lots of work into trying to help and I'm getting somewhere (mostly relating to backstory and its affects on the campaign), but I thought I should also ask for some extra help.
Thank you in advance.
If am reading this correctly, the player with the least experience (zero, is that correct?), took a complicated character class to play, right off the start. That already spells trouble. And if there is an experienced player already playing a Bard, yeah, this will be frustration for the new player. I would suggest the new player switch up to a Fighter class, with some magical abilities, like Eldritch Knight. I would steer them clear of the superior gish, the Hexblade, because, once again, a Warlock is so non-traditional in its mechanocs, it can mess with a new player.
You might be able to salvage some of the backstory.
I wouldn't know that Bards are a complicated class. It is the only class I have felt "why does this exist? why do people enjoy this?" about. They do have a tiny bit of experience, but only as an elf bard. Both of those aspects particularly resonate with them, and they have little to no (presumable) interest in any other class, especially not a melee fighter.
Thank you for your advice, but I sadly don't believe I can apply it here. If you have any other advice that would be appreciated as well.
OK, so melee fighter is out. If I am reading your post correctly, this player has only experience playing in playing an Elf Bard, and you are sure they will play no other class, or at least enjoy it. Is that accurate?
Well... I couldn't say if they would enjoy a different class, but neither could they. I don't think they will enjoy a different class much as bard is what they know and they aren't great with change. Additionally they have expressed that they don't want to change too much. They don't want the change to be too drastic to be unreasonable given the campaign (eg a background or character change in the middle of the campaign for no apparent in game reason). I have looked to work around this (reading other posts on this threat you may notice the elf soul reincarnation idea).
Well, I see two options outside of the re-incarnation route:
1. Player moves into Elf Arcane Trickster, but this seems unlikely if you believe the player does not want to entertain changing classes.
2. The OTHER Bard switches classes. But that is an awfully big ask of another player. Only you know how that idea will be received.
Bards are quite wonderful. There is no other class that can fill as many roles. They take an already complete party and put on all the finishing touches to make a good party great. There's no other class that can have as many skills and be effective with them as the Jack Of All Trades And Master Of None that is the Bard.
Are they high enough level to have Colleges? A College of Swords Bard Is pretty competent in a fight. A College of Creation Bard gets a construct that can tank a little, slow enemies down or slam them for damage. An Eloquence Bard's Silver Tongue makes their attempts at social interaction more reliable. They cannot get less than a 10 on any social check. A Glamour Bard's Mantle of Inspiration gives a bunch of temporary hit points, and they can hold an audience spellbound for an hour with their Enthralling Performance. There are other colleges to chose from as well.
With all that going for Bards, can't you find something useful the two of them can do? What are the other three characters? Bards can fight at range and in melee, heal, cast spells for damage or defense... Two Bards would be able to give each-other Inspiration would they not? Or double up on one of the other characters? With Viscious Mockery, they can darned near sing people to death.
Could you give us a quick summary of both characters? Like College, a bit of backstory, and maybe their mechanical differences, if any? That might help with ideas to help differentiate them.
In general though, Charisma covers Persuasion, Intimidation, and Deception. Does the more experienced bard player cover all three bases? If not, maybe they could Good Cop/Bad Cop situations as a Help action if perhaps one of them is better in Persuasion and one is better in Intimidation.
Oft overlooked in social interactions is Insight. Does one of the bards have a better Wisdom score and/or Expertise in Insight? Maybe they could team up with one of them as the spotter, the silent observant one who passes on insights to the other via expression or hand gesture.
Often teaming up can help find someone's niche. They don't have to be wholly separate spheres. This does require cooperation on both players part, of course.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Have you just had a sit-down, you and the 2 bards, and talked about the situation outside of the game? Talking solves most issues. Maybe the other player will have some suggestions. Maybe the other player would offer to even switch classes or colleges. Maybe the player struggling has things he/she wants to do but is afraid to aslk.
Talk to the players.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
As Geann says, the Bard class is very broad and versatile (most classes are, really, and backgrounds help with that too). Two bards don't have to be alike. Charisma is presumably their strongest ability in both cases, but they can both employ different skills more, reach for different spells, have different alignments and different goals. Even with just Cha skills, one may be honest and prefer to persuade, while the other might be sly and tend to go with deception first and foremost.
Without knowing anything more about the characters, I'd suggest encouraging both players to focus on the aspects of their characters' personalities that set them apart. I'd also try to incorporate a bit of differentiation in how the setting/NPCs interact with them (and with other PCs, it can be nice to not always have the same players hog the social interactions). Indicate to them that NPCs of their own race (if they don't have the same one) might find them a bit more personable than the other. Obviously the same holds for NPCs they know from before, or who have a connection to an aspect of their background, or who have something in their backstory that either predisposes them towards or against one of the PCs (this could translate into small or not so small DC modifiers, making a check easier or harder for one than the other). It sounds like you're possibly already doing something like that; if so, keep it up. Work with those differences, and get them to work on those differences too.
Bard is a class that presents a lot of options for variety and different specializations. As Ophidimancer points out, the two could possibly act as a tag team in social situations if they have different proficiencies, though the one having a higher charisma score could lessen the use/need of that particularly at lower levels when an extra +2 to the ability modifier equals the difference of a proficiency bonus. If your game is heavy on roleplaying you could focus on the two having different approaches to a situation based on their personalities and apply ad hoc bonuses or penalties to individual skill checks based on the way they approach situations (lower the DC for a persuasion check if the NPC involved is more sympathetic to elves than whatever the other's race is, for example).
There isn't really a problem inherent to a simple background. I actually prefer that as opposed to a complex and filled out one, especially for characters starting out at first or even second or third level as they mechanically lack experience to justify much in the way of an "exciting" past. Seriously, you can get to third level after just a few basic encounters or even reasonably justify starting at that point with any significant amount of training with a mentor, basic military training, a few years of study at a mage academy or temple, or even with a traveling theater troupe that has to protect itself from bandits and/or beast while moving between more civilized areas (real world example: compare a modern army recruit after a 6-8 week boot camp to a typical civilian by their respective fighting ability and the soldier who hasn't seen any real combat would quite believably be at least a level 2 fighter compared to a level 1 commoner).
The thing I would focus on, as DM, to engage the player would be why their character adventures. Do they seek wealth, power, and or fame? As a bard, do they want to be a famous performer, or just use their abilities to achieve another end, like traveling the world, gaining knowledge of a particular subject, or even the stereotype of a bard and just get laid a lot? Find out what the player wants to do with their character, and work opportunities for that sort of thing into the game.
The issue has been resolved thanks to all your help.
Thank you for going out of your way to help other people in need. :)
Best regards, Naturelull
What was the outcome?
We discussed together, me, struggling bard, and the other bard (other bard is also a DM so he is my second opinion).
We discussed what the struggling bard could do, how they can do social interactions together (via help action), and noticed that they had a very good insight, perception, and investigation, which can be very useful.
As for how this works out, we'll have to wait and see.
As an extra which is just an easy boost, I'd recommend if they are different colleges to lean into their unique talents. As some of the other commenters said bards are so variable they can lean into many different areas, there's no reason just because they are the same class they need to be serving the same function/role.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Ah my first consistent firm and organised campaign. Oh how long I have been waiting for this. I, the DM, have a group of 5 players, each with their own unique characters and have all had experience before except one. This one I know well in real life, and they are experiencing a few struggles so I want to ensure they have D&D to fall back on. Their character is an elf bard and they have limited experience in such roleplaying. Naturally, being a bard, their speciality is charisma, but there is a problem. There is another bard. The other bard plays very humorously and is somewhat sub-optimal except for his charisma, which bests our other bard's. This leaves our struggling player feeling kind of worthless, as they don't know entirely what they serve to the party that someone else doesn't do better. I've already put lots of work into trying to help and I'm getting somewhere (mostly relating to backstory and its affects on the campaign), but I thought I should also ask for some extra help.
Thank you in advance.
My experience is that several characters trying to fill the same niche is a bad idea, unless the players are really experienced and responsive . My advice is to let the new player change class to something that the party needs, with abilities that doesn't compete with other characters, and that you help the player out with background etc to make shure it fits into your campaign.
If am reading this correctly, the player with the least experience (zero, is that correct?), took a complicated character class to play, right off the start. That already spells trouble. And if there is an experienced player already playing a Bard, yeah, this will be frustration for the new player. I would suggest the new player switch up to a Fighter class, with some magical abilities, like Eldritch Knight. I would steer them clear of the superior gish, the Hexblade, because, once again, a Warlock is so non-traditional in its mechanocs, it can mess with a new player.
You might be able to salvage some of the backstory.
We are already reasonably far into the campaign. As always in my experience everyone made their characters individually with no regard for the other's characters (maybe that's normal I wouldn't know). I have found a niche for them to fit, being a focus on inspiration. The plan hasn't been mobilised yet but I have hopes. Additionally (since elven souls reincarnate), I had the idea of roping a previous elven life into her current character, specifically a few vengeful side-villains who still want revenge against a dead elven adventurer, or that adventurer's reincarnation at least. From there I have the idea when the reincarnation thing is discovered, they will have the option to multiclass into a sorcerer, given other details unnecessary for this. I doubt the multiclassing will happen though, given they are new and don't really understand the other classes.
As for their background, yes it does fit, perhaps the best because the others' backgrounds are more... out there. But their background rather simple, uneventful, and I am at a loss at how to build on it (and I have tried a lot). Hence I came up with the idea of roping the reincarnation thing in.
Pre-planning is kind of out the window at this point sadly. Thank you for your advice, and if you have any other advice I would greatly appreciate it.
Thank you in advance.
I wouldn't know that Bards are a complicated class. It is the only class I have felt "why does this exist? why do people enjoy this?" about. They do have a tiny bit of experience, but only as an elf bard. Both of those aspects particularly resonate with them, and they have little to no (presumable) interest in any other class, especially not a melee fighter.
Thank you for your advice, but I sadly don't believe I can apply it here. If you have any other advice that would be appreciated as well.
OK, so melee fighter is out. If I am reading your post correctly, this player has only experience playing in playing an Elf Bard, and you are sure they will play no other class, or at least enjoy it. Is that accurate?
Well... I couldn't say if they would enjoy a different class, but neither could they. I don't think they will enjoy a different class much as bard is what they know and they aren't great with change. Additionally they have expressed that they don't want to change too much. They don't want the change to be too drastic to be unreasonable given the campaign (eg a background or character change in the middle of the campaign for no apparent in game reason). I have looked to work around this (reading other posts on this threat you may notice the elf soul reincarnation idea).
Well, I see two options outside of the re-incarnation route:
1. Player moves into Elf Arcane Trickster, but this seems unlikely if you believe the player does not want to entertain changing classes.
2. The OTHER Bard switches classes. But that is an awfully big ask of another player. Only you know how that idea will be received.
Bards are quite wonderful. There is no other class that can fill as many roles. They take an already complete party and put on all the finishing touches to make a good party great. There's no other class that can have as many skills and be effective with them as the Jack Of All Trades And Master Of None that is the Bard.
Are they high enough level to have Colleges? A College of Swords Bard Is pretty competent in a fight. A College of Creation Bard gets a construct that can tank a little, slow enemies down or slam them for damage. An Eloquence Bard's Silver Tongue makes their attempts at social interaction more reliable. They cannot get less than a 10 on any social check. A Glamour Bard's Mantle of Inspiration gives a bunch of temporary hit points, and they can hold an audience spellbound for an hour with their Enthralling Performance. There are other colleges to chose from as well.
With all that going for Bards, can't you find something useful the two of them can do? What are the other three characters? Bards can fight at range and in melee, heal, cast spells for damage or defense... Two Bards would be able to give each-other Inspiration would they not? Or double up on one of the other characters? With Viscious Mockery, they can darned near sing people to death.
I hope you are able to work something out.
<Insert clever signature here>
Could you give us a quick summary of both characters? Like College, a bit of backstory, and maybe their mechanical differences, if any? That might help with ideas to help differentiate them.
In general though, Charisma covers Persuasion, Intimidation, and Deception. Does the more experienced bard player cover all three bases? If not, maybe they could Good Cop/Bad Cop situations as a Help action if perhaps one of them is better in Persuasion and one is better in Intimidation.
Oft overlooked in social interactions is Insight. Does one of the bards have a better Wisdom score and/or Expertise in Insight? Maybe they could team up with one of them as the spotter, the silent observant one who passes on insights to the other via expression or hand gesture.
Often teaming up can help find someone's niche. They don't have to be wholly separate spheres. This does require cooperation on both players part, of course.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Have you just had a sit-down, you and the 2 bards, and talked about the situation outside of the game? Talking solves most issues. Maybe the other player will have some suggestions. Maybe the other player would offer to even switch classes or colleges. Maybe the player struggling has things he/she wants to do but is afraid to aslk.
Talk to the players.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
As Geann says, the Bard class is very broad and versatile (most classes are, really, and backgrounds help with that too). Two bards don't have to be alike. Charisma is presumably their strongest ability in both cases, but they can both employ different skills more, reach for different spells, have different alignments and different goals. Even with just Cha skills, one may be honest and prefer to persuade, while the other might be sly and tend to go with deception first and foremost.
Without knowing anything more about the characters, I'd suggest encouraging both players to focus on the aspects of their characters' personalities that set them apart. I'd also try to incorporate a bit of differentiation in how the setting/NPCs interact with them (and with other PCs, it can be nice to not always have the same players hog the social interactions). Indicate to them that NPCs of their own race (if they don't have the same one) might find them a bit more personable than the other. Obviously the same holds for NPCs they know from before, or who have a connection to an aspect of their background, or who have something in their backstory that either predisposes them towards or against one of the PCs (this could translate into small or not so small DC modifiers, making a check easier or harder for one than the other). It sounds like you're possibly already doing something like that; if so, keep it up. Work with those differences, and get them to work on those differences too.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
Bard is a class that presents a lot of options for variety and different specializations. As Ophidimancer points out, the two could possibly act as a tag team in social situations if they have different proficiencies, though the one having a higher charisma score could lessen the use/need of that particularly at lower levels when an extra +2 to the ability modifier equals the difference of a proficiency bonus. If your game is heavy on roleplaying you could focus on the two having different approaches to a situation based on their personalities and apply ad hoc bonuses or penalties to individual skill checks based on the way they approach situations (lower the DC for a persuasion check if the NPC involved is more sympathetic to elves than whatever the other's race is, for example).
There isn't really a problem inherent to a simple background. I actually prefer that as opposed to a complex and filled out one, especially for characters starting out at first or even second or third level as they mechanically lack experience to justify much in the way of an "exciting" past. Seriously, you can get to third level after just a few basic encounters or even reasonably justify starting at that point with any significant amount of training with a mentor, basic military training, a few years of study at a mage academy or temple, or even with a traveling theater troupe that has to protect itself from bandits and/or beast while moving between more civilized areas (real world example: compare a modern army recruit after a 6-8 week boot camp to a typical civilian by their respective fighting ability and the soldier who hasn't seen any real combat would quite believably be at least a level 2 fighter compared to a level 1 commoner).
The thing I would focus on, as DM, to engage the player would be why their character adventures. Do they seek wealth, power, and or fame? As a bard, do they want to be a famous performer, or just use their abilities to achieve another end, like traveling the world, gaining knowledge of a particular subject, or even the stereotype of a bard and just get laid a lot? Find out what the player wants to do with their character, and work opportunities for that sort of thing into the game.
Thank you for everyone's responses.
The issue has been resolved thanks to all your help.
Thank you for going out of your way to help other people in need.
:)
Best regards,
Naturelull
What was the outcome?
We discussed together, me, struggling bard, and the other bard (other bard is also a DM so he is my second opinion).
We discussed what the struggling bard could do, how they can do social interactions together (via help action), and noticed that they had a very good insight, perception, and investigation, which can be very useful.
As for how this works out, we'll have to wait and see.
Thank you again for your help.
As an extra which is just an easy boost, I'd recommend if they are different colleges to lean into their unique talents. As some of the other commenters said bards are so variable they can lean into many different areas, there's no reason just because they are the same class they need to be serving the same function/role.