As a DM it is not up to me to intervene with who gets what loot, but I have a situation now where things are getting out of hand.
One of my players is power playing hard. Not got an issue with that. However, this player does have a habit in games to want 'all the things'. They will almost exclusively play a rogue of some type to allow them to palm stuff off and have a reason to scout at the front of the party and search stuff, giving them the opportunity to sneak loot away from the party. They are now about to hit level 17 and 18 and the next couple of game sessions will see them face off against the big bad...potentially TWO of them...Vecna and Dispater. It's a long story, but Dispater has accurate intel that the party has been chosen by Vecna's disciples to breach the veil and thus release Vecna's spirit from it's confines and re-enter this realm, thus causing the Hand and the Eye of Vecna to be within Dispater's grasp, whilst he can also trap Vecna and nullify him as a threat...all in an effort to challenge Asmodeus.
Anyway...what I mean to say is, the next couple of games are going to be both deadly and epic in scale as the party can choose to help Vecna, Dispater...or go it alone and work out a way to foil them both. There is a chance to gain both the Hand and the Eye as well, but they need to be very smart and fast in working out how that might be possible early in the encounter.
This is basically end of campaign, with a chance of carrying on...maybe.
The other members of the party (they used to be 5 in number, now 4) are either unaware of the amount of loot this guy has or have just rolled over and let him have it. I think he must have 75% of the total magic treasure now and all of the best items. Ok, so the others have some good stuff too but the loot utilisation is far from optimal as half the stuff the hoarder has he can't attune to or is not really meant for rogues and would be much better off elsewhere.
I am worried that the party does not realise they are in for a very tough ride soon and without planning and optimising loot they are unlikely to survive the maelstrom that's about to unfold.
Should I intervene, make suggestions, or let them all die in a steaming pile of goo as a lesson?
Also, I think a couple of players are feeling less inclined to play as they have had the same gear for several levels now and are too polite to point out the treasure hoarding.
You have a few options, and none are mutually exclusive.
1. Talk to the hoarder privately. Be straightforward about the situation he's put the party (and players) in and that it may end very poorly for him and everyone if he keeps the loot for himself.
2. Warn the party. Use an NPC to communicate that things are real bad and they need to be prepared with specific kinds of magic items that you've already given the rogue. The other players will freak out about needing it and give the rogue a chance to cough it up.
3. Adjust the final encounter accordingly. You're the one in control, here. Dispater and Vecna can hit as hard as you need them to in order to make a good story. PCs don't have protective items equipped? The baddies roll fewer damage dice. Party won't survive the lair effects? Maybe the save DC gets knocked down a little. Your players have no idea what stats you're using, and you have every right to change things to suit your needs.
4. Give the other players stuff directly. A cleric of Pelor or the Raven Queen shows up with weapons and armor, saying their god gave them a vision of the future and told them to bequeath these heroes with special items. A beloved NPC hears about their plans and says, "Hey, found this in my basement. I think you'd like it."
Quite frankly, I think the attitude of "it's not my place to intervene" has done you and your players a disservice. It is absolutely your place to intervene if one player's behavior is causing issues for the group. And not all interventions need to be confrontations - they can simply be changes in how you run the game and what opportunities you give to players.
You, the DM, are in control of the game world. The items and information players get is entirely up to you. Rather than letting the rogue find and hoard it all, or relying on him to share, you could have the other players go through trials of worth and magically upgrade their current equipment. You can have otherworldly entities come to them in dreams and bestow them gifts that are real in the morning. You can have mysterious tattoos show up on their skin that grant them the same powers the magic items would. You are only limited by your imagination, here. Don't let one selfish player make you feel like you're powerless at your own table.
Regardless of what you decide about the hoarder situation, I recommend you check in with the polite players to make sure they're still having fun. Especially if you would like to keep playing with them in the future. Open communication, clear expectations, and enforced boundaries are critical to a happy table. It's never too late to start.
I wish you guys the best as you finish your campaign.
Sadly, sometimes confrontation, even if in private, is needed to restore everyone else’s fun - including yours.I would talk to the the hoarder in private explaining how they are ruining everyone else’s fun and abilities by hoarding (stealing from the party). I would also talk to the others about what is seems problematical at this point, letting them bring up the lack of magical loot they have gotten and their fears of not being powerful enough to handle the finale. If the hoarding is bothering you enough I might have the god of thieves visit the hoarder in a dream and “steal” and redistribute the loot to those that can best use it so the party is stronger while the hoarder actually has no real reduction in strength but is missing those items best used by others. Let each have their own versions of the communal dream as the gain or lose stuff.
I assume the other players know about this behavior. If they have expressed any resistance then I think it is your place as DM to say, "Hey, let's remember we're playing a game for everyone to enjoy."
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
How many of the items require attunement? Simply pointing out the character's hoard may exceed any practical utility might be one polite way for the character to come around. And is everything being squirreled into a bag of holding or portable hole? I'm not sure how RAW the action economy rules this, but to a certain level of common sense, secreting everything into a magical container means the character is not "equipped" with the item, so won't be as ready at hand for when the big fight comes. A DM can sort of speak to "thinking tactically" to the group to not break meta and maybe allow a throat clearing moment to civilly discuss characters being left high and dry while one character has become a magic shoppe.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
If you want to have them pulled up on the amount of magic items they have, have them go to a place where any magic items which enter are a possible means for an evil spirit to escape, and so they have to hand their magic items in for safe storage. Try to make it something they can't avoid easily, so that the rogue will have to show how many magic items they have. That should let the party resolve it for themselves. If they party is still cool with the rogue having all the things, then thatis how things go. Maybe talk to the hoarder, or just let them go with what they have. Failure should always be a risk.
As another option, if there is no magical storage item involved, make them have disadvantage on sneaking because of all those magical items jangling about!
If there is magical storage, have it get stolen. Give them a quest to get it back, and when they do find it, have the items all out and on display. A quick easy quest to find the fence who bought the bag, and it will reveal to everyone all the magic items they could have been using!
Constructive feedback, thanks. Yes, I hate any form of confrontation and it need not be like that.
You have done this to yourself by not saying anything just to avoid a confrontation. Regardless of how you feel about arguments there are times when this is the only recourse.
Not only should you warn the player that this behavior is not acceptable but be prepared to resort to banning this person from your table. You are not there to coddle people. You are running a game where there are several people involved. Everyone has the right to have fun, if the fun is missing you may lose all of your players because you can't control your table.
I have banned really close friends from games because they were being ***** to the rest of the party. Having fun at other's expense is not fun for the poor sap being shat on.
I'd suggest stepping into the man box long enough to deal with this. Distasteful as it seems, it is necessary some times.
Constructive feedback, thanks. Yes, I hate any form of confrontation and it need not be like that.
You have done this to yourself by not saying anything to avoid a confrontation. Regardless of how you feel about arguments there are times when this is the only recourse.
Not only should you warn the player that this behavior is not acceptable but be prepared to resort to banning this person from your table. You are not there to coddle people. You are running a game where there are several people involved. Everyone has the right to have fun, if the fun is missing you may lose all of your players because you can't control your table.
I have banned really close friends from games because they were being ***** to the rest of the party. Having fun at other's expense is not fun for the poor sap being shat on.
I'd suggest stepping into the man box long enough to deal with this. Distasteful as it seems, it is necessary some times.
I would absolutely agree.
As the DM - those who have gathered around the table (real or virtual) are here to have fun. They trust you as the DM to hopefully make that happen.
If a player is being disruptive - it's everyone's game - but you're there as the story teller. You should be pulling that player aside and discussing things with them.
At the very least, check in with your other players - get a feel for what they feel. If most of them are like, "Whatever. I am just here for the social aspect. The rolling dice is all secondary." Then not going to be a big deal. But if just even one of them reports that they are bothered by the behavior - it's worth talking to the troublesome player - and pulling them aside - and saying that you made the observation and not to sell out any of the players. Simply be like, "Hey I can tell that the others are losing interest in the game because you keep scouting ahead and palming all the good stuff that should be shared to benefit the rest of the party. Work with the party. I won't mind if from time to time, you do this - but it's being noticed and it's a detriment to the game."
And if it continues.
Go back to my mimics plan.
Keep the rest of the party busy fighting whatever.
While the rogue deals with being stuck to a mimic, who has extra health and regenerates.
And calls other mimics, so doors suddenly turn into mimics and come pounding on the rogue.
And the party can't save him.
Because they're fighting other things.
And say "If only they had some of the items you'd found, huh? Their fight would have ended sooner so they could help you." :D
I had a player with so much magic armor that I couldn't hit her character, with even the most powerful creatures.
I asked her to voluntarily down grade her ring and cloak so I had at least a little chance to inflict damage.
She said no, so I robbed her, then used a delayed blast fireball to destroy them. Not just the offending magic items but all of her gear.
This was a 14th level 1st edition cleric. Magic isn't candy in Ad&d, you work your arse off to earn even the weakest magic item, but she came from a monty haul campaign where the DM liked her so he bestowed presents. That game fell apart and I inherited the headache. She fumed for weeks but in the end realized I wasn't being mean I just wanted some fairness at the table.
When one of the other party members casts "Detect Magic", just emphasise how much of a glow of magic is coming from this particular person - and give the number of glowing items on each PC to the caster.
I had a player with so much magic armor that I couldn't hit her character, with even the most powerful creatures.
I asked her to voluntarily down grade her ring and cloak so I had at least a little chance to inflict damage.
She said no, so I robbed her, then used a delayed blast fireball to destroy them. Not just the offending magic items but all of her gear.
This was a 14th level 1st edition cleric. Magic isn't candy in Ad&d, you work your arse off to earn even the weakest magic item, but she came from a monty haul campaign where the DM liked her so he bestowed presents. That game fell apart and I inherited the headache. She fumed for weeks but in the end realized I wasn't being mean I just wanted some fairness at the table.
I generally look over PC from other games and make suggestions before I let the PC into my adventure, or have them roll a new PC and level on the spot. I have at times simply said no PC from other games because of house rules in other games can get in the way.
But in general 5e is fairly simple, heck even 1e is simple and as a GM it can take just a little time to look at a PC and say yes or no.
As a DM it is not up to me to intervene with who gets what loot, but I have a situation now where things are getting out of hand.
One of my players is power playing hard. Not got an issue with that. However, this player does have a habit in games to want 'all the things'. They will almost exclusively play a rogue of some type to allow them to palm stuff off and have a reason to scout at the front of the party and search stuff, giving them the opportunity to sneak loot away from the party. They are now about to hit level 17 and 18 and the next couple of game sessions will see them face off against the big bad...potentially TWO of them...Vecna and Dispater. It's a long story, but Dispater has accurate intel that the party has been chosen by Vecna's disciples to breach the veil and thus release Vecna's spirit from it's confines and re-enter this realm, thus causing the Hand and the Eye of Vecna to be within Dispater's grasp, whilst he can also trap Vecna and nullify him as a threat...all in an effort to challenge Asmodeus.
Anyway...what I mean to say is, the next couple of games are going to be both deadly and epic in scale as the party can choose to help Vecna, Dispater...or go it alone and work out a way to foil them both. There is a chance to gain both the Hand and the Eye as well, but they need to be very smart and fast in working out how that might be possible early in the encounter.
This is basically end of campaign, with a chance of carrying on...maybe.
The other members of the party (they used to be 5 in number, now 4) are either unaware of the amount of loot this guy has or have just rolled over and let him have it. I think he must have 75% of the total magic treasure now and all of the best items. Ok, so the others have some good stuff too but the loot utilisation is far from optimal as half the stuff the hoarder has he can't attune to or is not really meant for rogues and would be much better off elsewhere.
I am worried that the party does not realise they are in for a very tough ride soon and without planning and optimising loot they are unlikely to survive the maelstrom that's about to unfold.
Should I intervene, make suggestions, or let them all die in a steaming pile of goo as a lesson?
Also, I think a couple of players are feeling less inclined to play as they have had the same gear for several levels now and are too polite to point out the treasure hoarding.
Opinions?
Honestly, if he has that much stuff, where is he keeping it? Does he have a Winnebago? Encumbrance and common sense about the size of a backpack solve a lot of that. It's really hard to stash away something the size of a sword, much less armor. Where the heck does he hide a shield? A staff? So unless it's all rings, he could never have accumulated it or kept it hidden.
On tops of that, if he is hiding it somewhere else, all it takes is another scoundrel paying attention to the local competition and following him to the stash. Truthfully, you should probably have done this long ago. The other scoundrel follows him to the stash, there is a short fight. The other guy is losing so he says he will be back with friends and teleports out. When your hoarder needed to ask the party to help defend it, the truth would have come to light.
As a DM it is not up to me to intervene with who gets what loot, but I have a situation now where things are getting out of hand.
One of my players is power playing hard. Not got an issue with that. However, this player does have a habit in games to want 'all the things'. They will almost exclusively play a rogue of some type to allow them to palm stuff off and have a reason to scout at the front of the party and search stuff, giving them the opportunity to sneak loot away from the party. They are now about to hit level 17 and 18 and the next couple of game sessions will see them face off against the big bad...potentially TWO of them...Vecna and Dispater. It's a long story, but Dispater has accurate intel that the party has been chosen by Vecna's disciples to breach the veil and thus release Vecna's spirit from it's confines and re-enter this realm, thus causing the Hand and the Eye of Vecna to be within Dispater's grasp, whilst he can also trap Vecna and nullify him as a threat...all in an effort to challenge Asmodeus.
Anyway...what I mean to say is, the next couple of games are going to be both deadly and epic in scale as the party can choose to help Vecna, Dispater...or go it alone and work out a way to foil them both. There is a chance to gain both the Hand and the Eye as well, but they need to be very smart and fast in working out how that might be possible early in the encounter.
This is basically end of campaign, with a chance of carrying on...maybe.
The other members of the party (they used to be 5 in number, now 4) are either unaware of the amount of loot this guy has or have just rolled over and let him have it. I think he must have 75% of the total magic treasure now and all of the best items. Ok, so the others have some good stuff too but the loot utilisation is far from optimal as half the stuff the hoarder has he can't attune to or is not really meant for rogues and would be much better off elsewhere.
I am worried that the party does not realise they are in for a very tough ride soon and without planning and optimising loot they are unlikely to survive the maelstrom that's about to unfold.
Should I intervene, make suggestions, or let them all die in a steaming pile of goo as a lesson?
Also, I think a couple of players are feeling less inclined to play as they have had the same gear for several levels now and are too polite to point out the treasure hoarding.
Opinions?
You have a few options, and none are mutually exclusive.
1. Talk to the hoarder privately. Be straightforward about the situation he's put the party (and players) in and that it may end very poorly for him and everyone if he keeps the loot for himself.
2. Warn the party. Use an NPC to communicate that things are real bad and they need to be prepared with specific kinds of magic items that you've already given the rogue. The other players will freak out about needing it and give the rogue a chance to cough it up.
3. Adjust the final encounter accordingly. You're the one in control, here. Dispater and Vecna can hit as hard as you need them to in order to make a good story. PCs don't have protective items equipped? The baddies roll fewer damage dice. Party won't survive the lair effects? Maybe the save DC gets knocked down a little. Your players have no idea what stats you're using, and you have every right to change things to suit your needs.
4. Give the other players stuff directly. A cleric of Pelor or the Raven Queen shows up with weapons and armor, saying their god gave them a vision of the future and told them to bequeath these heroes with special items. A beloved NPC hears about their plans and says, "Hey, found this in my basement. I think you'd like it."
Quite frankly, I think the attitude of "it's not my place to intervene" has done you and your players a disservice. It is absolutely your place to intervene if one player's behavior is causing issues for the group. And not all interventions need to be confrontations - they can simply be changes in how you run the game and what opportunities you give to players.
You, the DM, are in control of the game world. The items and information players get is entirely up to you. Rather than letting the rogue find and hoard it all, or relying on him to share, you could have the other players go through trials of worth and magically upgrade their current equipment. You can have otherworldly entities come to them in dreams and bestow them gifts that are real in the morning. You can have mysterious tattoos show up on their skin that grant them the same powers the magic items would. You are only limited by your imagination, here. Don't let one selfish player make you feel like you're powerless at your own table.
Regardless of what you decide about the hoarder situation, I recommend you check in with the polite players to make sure they're still having fun. Especially if you would like to keep playing with them in the future. Open communication, clear expectations, and enforced boundaries are critical to a happy table. It's never too late to start.
I wish you guys the best as you finish your campaign.
Constructive feedback, thanks. Yes, I hate any form of confrontation and it need not be like that.
Sadly, sometimes confrontation, even if in private, is needed to restore everyone else’s fun - including yours.I would talk to the the hoarder in private explaining how they are ruining everyone else’s fun and abilities by hoarding (stealing from the party). I would also talk to the others about what is seems problematical at this point, letting them bring up the lack of magical loot they have gotten and their fears of not being powerful enough to handle the finale. If the hoarding is bothering you enough I might have the god of thieves visit the hoarder in a dream and “steal” and redistribute the loot to those that can best use it so the party is stronger while the hoarder actually has no real reduction in strength but is missing those items best used by others. Let each have their own versions of the communal dream as the gain or lose stuff.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
I assume the other players know about this behavior. If they have expressed any resistance then I think it is your place as DM to say, "Hey, let's remember we're playing a game for everyone to enjoy."
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
How many of the items require attunement? Simply pointing out the character's hoard may exceed any practical utility might be one polite way for the character to come around. And is everything being squirreled into a bag of holding or portable hole? I'm not sure how RAW the action economy rules this, but to a certain level of common sense, secreting everything into a magical container means the character is not "equipped" with the item, so won't be as ready at hand for when the big fight comes. A DM can sort of speak to "thinking tactically" to the group to not break meta and maybe allow a throat clearing moment to civilly discuss characters being left high and dry while one character has become a magic shoppe.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
If you want to have them pulled up on the amount of magic items they have, have them go to a place where any magic items which enter are a possible means for an evil spirit to escape, and so they have to hand their magic items in for safe storage. Try to make it something they can't avoid easily, so that the rogue will have to show how many magic items they have. That should let the party resolve it for themselves. If they party is still cool with the rogue having all the things, then thatis how things go. Maybe talk to the hoarder, or just let them go with what they have. Failure should always be a risk.
As another option, if there is no magical storage item involved, make them have disadvantage on sneaking because of all those magical items jangling about!
If there is magical storage, have it get stolen. Give them a quest to get it back, and when they do find it, have the items all out and on display. A quick easy quest to find the fence who bought the bag, and it will reveal to everyone all the magic items they could have been using!
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Mimics.
Non. Stop. Mimics.
Scouting ahead?
The door's a mimic.
See a treasure chest?
It's a mimic.
See a staff?
It's a mimic.
See a magic cloak?
It's a Cloaker.
Room seems empty?
It's Trapper.
Non. Stop.
Check out my publication on DMs Guild: https://www.dmsguild.com/browse.php?author=Tawmis%20Logue
Check out my comedy web series - Neverending Nights: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Wr4-u9-zw0&list=PLbRG7dzFI-u3EJd0usasgDrrFO3mZ1lOZ
Need a character story/background written up? I do it for free (but also take donations!) - https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?591882-Need-a-character-background-written-up
You have done this to yourself by not saying anything just to avoid a confrontation. Regardless of how you feel about arguments there are times when this is the only recourse.
Not only should you warn the player that this behavior is not acceptable but be prepared to resort to banning this person from your table. You are not there to coddle people. You are running a game where there are several people involved. Everyone has the right to have fun, if the fun is missing you may lose all of your players because you can't control your table.
I have banned really close friends from games because they were being ***** to the rest of the party. Having fun at other's expense is not fun for the poor sap being shat on.
I'd suggest stepping into the man box long enough to deal with this. Distasteful as it seems, it is necessary some times.
I would absolutely agree.
As the DM - those who have gathered around the table (real or virtual) are here to have fun. They trust you as the DM to hopefully make that happen.
If a player is being disruptive - it's everyone's game - but you're there as the story teller. You should be pulling that player aside and discussing things with them.
At the very least, check in with your other players - get a feel for what they feel. If most of them are like, "Whatever. I am just here for the social aspect. The rolling dice is all secondary." Then not going to be a big deal. But if just even one of them reports that they are bothered by the behavior - it's worth talking to the troublesome player - and pulling them aside - and saying that you made the observation and not to sell out any of the players. Simply be like, "Hey I can tell that the others are losing interest in the game because you keep scouting ahead and palming all the good stuff that should be shared to benefit the rest of the party. Work with the party. I won't mind if from time to time, you do this - but it's being noticed and it's a detriment to the game."
And if it continues.
Go back to my mimics plan.
Keep the rest of the party busy fighting whatever.
While the rogue deals with being stuck to a mimic, who has extra health and regenerates.
And calls other mimics, so doors suddenly turn into mimics and come pounding on the rogue.
And the party can't save him.
Because they're fighting other things.
And say "If only they had some of the items you'd found, huh? Their fight would have ended sooner so they could help you." :D
Check out my publication on DMs Guild: https://www.dmsguild.com/browse.php?author=Tawmis%20Logue
Check out my comedy web series - Neverending Nights: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Wr4-u9-zw0&list=PLbRG7dzFI-u3EJd0usasgDrrFO3mZ1lOZ
Need a character story/background written up? I do it for free (but also take donations!) - https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?591882-Need-a-character-background-written-up
I had a player with so much magic armor that I couldn't hit her character, with even the most powerful creatures.
I asked her to voluntarily down grade her ring and cloak so I had at least a little chance to inflict damage.
She said no, so I robbed her, then used a delayed blast fireball to destroy them. Not just the offending magic items but all of her gear.
This was a 14th level 1st edition cleric. Magic isn't candy in Ad&d, you work your arse off to earn even the weakest magic item, but she came from a monty haul campaign where the DM liked her so he bestowed presents. That game fell apart and I inherited the headache. She fumed for weeks but in the end realized I wasn't being mean I just wanted some fairness at the table.
When one of the other party members casts "Detect Magic", just emphasise how much of a glow of magic is coming from this particular person - and give the number of glowing items on each PC to the caster.
I generally look over PC from other games and make suggestions before I let the PC into my adventure, or have them roll a new PC and level on the spot. I have at times simply said no PC from other games because of house rules in other games can get in the way.
But in general 5e is fairly simple, heck even 1e is simple and as a GM it can take just a little time to look at a PC and say yes or no.
Good Luck
Honestly, if he has that much stuff, where is he keeping it? Does he have a Winnebago? Encumbrance and common sense about the size of a backpack solve a lot of that. It's really hard to stash away something the size of a sword, much less armor. Where the heck does he hide a shield? A staff? So unless it's all rings, he could never have accumulated it or kept it hidden.
On tops of that, if he is hiding it somewhere else, all it takes is another scoundrel paying attention to the local competition and following him to the stash. Truthfully, you should probably have done this long ago. The other scoundrel follows him to the stash, there is a short fight. The other guy is losing so he says he will be back with friends and teleports out. When your hoarder needed to ask the party to help defend it, the truth would have come to light.