I know there are already ranged dao warlock builds for this but I've been trying to figure out a melee build built around spike growth and forced movement.
I'm thinking point buy 8 str, 16 dex, (+2 racial bonus) 14 con (+1 crusher), 14 int, 9 wis, 14 cha
Custom Lineage (Crusher)
Level 1: Fighter 1
Level 2: Fighter 2
Level 3-5: Warlock (Dao Genie)
Level 6-11: Wizard (Bladesinger)
I'm starting fighter for action surge and to get proficiency in Con saves. Dao Genie Warlock gets me booming blade, the repelling blast and grasp of hadar invocations, eldritch blast, bludgeoning damage and spike growth. Bladesinger gets me the int bonuses from bladesong and then I get to use eldritch blast as one of my attacks but not until level 11.
The biggest problems I see are the length of time to get extra attack and fully optimized and that my spell casting is almost entirely utility based. I think I could get there fast if I went PAM and crusher with a strength build and punted on the bladesinger part of this (Maybe something like Hexblade (3) and Lore Bard (6) tacking on some levels of paladin on at the end). My other question is do I center spike growth on myself catching the enemies as they approach or do I center it so it's behind my enemies? I'm thinking the first option, especially if I'm the only tank/front line character in the party.
If you are building a Spike Growth melee build what do you think about making a grappling Druid that can just grab an opponent and run them back and forth over the Spike Growth? You want to center the spell behind the enemy, then run yourself around the radius of the spell, dragging them around and around inside it. Maybe start as a Variant Human with the Tavern Brawler feat. Then you can make a Moon Druid who either uses the Brown Bear form for it's high Strength or the various cats who can Pounce and knock the enemy prone to capitalize on the grapple.
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Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
You want to center the spell behind the enemy, then run yourself around the radius of the spell, dragging them around and around inside it.
Does this even work? Wouldn't you just drag them out of the effect at some point? They can be dragged behind you if you grapple them but that'll just pull them out of the area since you, presumably, are walking on the outside of the area. So dragging them behind you would just follow whatever route you took. No?
I thought the reason this trick works with some builds is that they can shove them around inside the thing. Seems dragging them behind you could only really work if you waded into it yourself but that'd be dangerous.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
The exact position of your grappled target when dragging it isn't specifically in the rules so I suppose it would be up to the DM, but physically you can side along drag people you've grabbed. I can see what you mean, but I just naturally interpreted that you could drag them off to the side if you wanted to.
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Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Huh, interesting. I don't think I ever even considered that an option, to drag them parallel to you. Is this actually allowed by the rules somewhere? In practice I know I always, when a player, move my token and the DM moves the monster/character I'm dragging to like, right behind me. And, when DMing I just naturally do basically the same thing. I don't think I've encountered anyone trying to steer them around laterally before. Would be good to brush up on these rules, is there anything specific that a player could leverage in justifying this sort of capability?
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I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Huh, interesting. I don't think I ever even considered that an option, to drag them parallel to you. Is this actually allowed by the rules somewhere?
As far as I know, the position of a dragee relative to a dragger is not dictated anywhere in the rules. So it's not a matter of if it's allowed, but rather how a DM rules it. "Dragee must follow path behind dragger" is also not in the rules as far as I'm aware.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Huh, interesting. I don't think I ever even considered that an option, to drag them parallel to you. Is this actually allowed by the rules somewhere?
As far as I know, the position of a dragee relative to a dragger is not dictated anywhere in the rules. So it's not a matter of if it's allowed, but rather how a DM rules it. "Dragee must follow path behind dragger" is also not in the rules as far as I'm aware.
Isn't that just what "dragging" is? Dunno.
Edit: Yeah checking the Combat section just says they get dragged with you, so I think just normal English definitions are being used here, when you drag em you pull them towards you/with you, as you move. It doesn't say you can steer them so presumably they would get to decide their exact path? Or, the DM does regardless who it is? Doesn't seem super clear who should be deciding the exact placement/pathing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Huh, interesting. I don't think I ever even considered that an option, to drag them parallel to you. Is this actually allowed by the rules somewhere?
As far as I know, the position of a dragee relative to a dragger is not dictated anywhere in the rules. So it's not a matter of if it's allowed, but rather how a DM rules it. "Dragee must follow path behind dragger" is also not in the rules as far as I'm aware.
Isn't that just what "dragging" is? Dunno.
I have definitely seen people and personally have dragged things parallel to me myself.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Huh, interesting. I don't think I ever even considered that an option, to drag them parallel to you. Is this actually allowed by the rules somewhere?
As far as I know, the position of a dragee relative to a dragger is not dictated anywhere in the rules. So it's not a matter of if it's allowed, but rather how a DM rules it. "Dragee must follow path behind dragger" is also not in the rules as far as I'm aware.
Isn't that just what "dragging" is? Dunno.
I have definitely seen people and personally have dragged things parallel to me myself.
Maybe. Imagine for a moment a 200lbs bag of sand. And, now you're going to try to drag it. Could you drag it 5 ft away from yourself to the side, keeping it perfectly parallel to your path of motion? Or, would you drag it along behind you? One seems far easier and natural than the other, for something "dragged". The amount of extra force necessary to overcome the sort of fulcrum action to keep it to the side of you is pretty high. Especially since the means of moving the other creature is just having a single hand holding them, and you moving while not letting go. That'd just force them to follow the path you took, as they get yanked behind you.
But, still, I guess the rules here are pretty vague. I wouldn't build this character without clearing it with my DM that grappling gave me the ability to freely reposition my enemies. This seems the sort of assumption that'll lead to disappointing game results when he rules otherwise.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
I know there are already ranged dao warlock builds for this but I've been trying to figure out a melee build built around spike growth and forced movement.
I'm thinking point buy 8 str, 16 dex, (+2 racial bonus) 14 con (+1 crusher), 14 int, 9 wis, 14 cha
Custom Lineage (Crusher)
Level 1: Fighter 1
Level 2: Fighter 2
Level 3-5: Warlock (Dao Genie)
Level 6-11: Wizard (Bladesinger)
I'm starting fighter for action surge and to get proficiency in Con saves. Dao Genie Warlock gets me booming blade, the repelling blast and grasp of hadar invocations, eldritch blast, bludgeoning damage and spike growth. Bladesinger gets me the int bonuses from bladesong and then I get to use eldritch blast as one of my attacks but not until level 11.
The biggest problems I see are the length of time to get extra attack and fully optimized and that my spell casting is almost entirely utility based. I think I could get there fast if I went PAM and crusher with a strength build and punted on the bladesinger part of this (Maybe something like Hexblade (3) and Lore Bard (6) tacking on some levels of paladin on at the end). My other question is do I center spike growth on myself catching the enemies as they approach or do I center it so it's behind my enemies? I'm thinking the first option, especially if I'm the only tank/front line character in the party.
If you are building a Spike Growth melee build what do you think about making a grappling Druid that can just grab an opponent and run them back and forth over the Spike Growth? You want to center the spell behind the enemy, then run yourself around the radius of the spell, dragging them around and around inside it. Maybe start as a Variant Human with the Tavern Brawler feat. Then you can make a Moon Druid who either uses the Brown Bear form for it's high Strength or the various cats who can Pounce and knock the enemy prone to capitalize on the grapple.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Does this even work? Wouldn't you just drag them out of the effect at some point? They can be dragged behind you if you grapple them but that'll just pull them out of the area since you, presumably, are walking on the outside of the area. So dragging them behind you would just follow whatever route you took. No?
I thought the reason this trick works with some builds is that they can shove them around inside the thing. Seems dragging them behind you could only really work if you waded into it yourself but that'd be dangerous.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
The exact position of your grappled target when dragging it isn't specifically in the rules so I suppose it would be up to the DM, but physically you can side along drag people you've grabbed. I can see what you mean, but I just naturally interpreted that you could drag them off to the side if you wanted to.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Huh, interesting. I don't think I ever even considered that an option, to drag them parallel to you. Is this actually allowed by the rules somewhere? In practice I know I always, when a player, move my token and the DM moves the monster/character I'm dragging to like, right behind me. And, when DMing I just naturally do basically the same thing. I don't think I've encountered anyone trying to steer them around laterally before. Would be good to brush up on these rules, is there anything specific that a player could leverage in justifying this sort of capability?
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
As far as I know, the position of a dragee relative to a dragger is not dictated anywhere in the rules. So it's not a matter of if it's allowed, but rather how a DM rules it. "Dragee must follow path behind dragger" is also not in the rules as far as I'm aware.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Isn't that just what "dragging" is? Dunno.
Edit: Yeah checking the Combat section just says they get dragged with you, so I think just normal English definitions are being used here, when you drag em you pull them towards you/with you, as you move. It doesn't say you can steer them so presumably they would get to decide their exact path? Or, the DM does regardless who it is? Doesn't seem super clear who should be deciding the exact placement/pathing.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
I have definitely seen people and personally have dragged things parallel to me myself.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Maybe. Imagine for a moment a 200lbs bag of sand. And, now you're going to try to drag it. Could you drag it 5 ft away from yourself to the side, keeping it perfectly parallel to your path of motion? Or, would you drag it along behind you? One seems far easier and natural than the other, for something "dragged". The amount of extra force necessary to overcome the sort of fulcrum action to keep it to the side of you is pretty high. Especially since the means of moving the other creature is just having a single hand holding them, and you moving while not letting go. That'd just force them to follow the path you took, as they get yanked behind you.
But, still, I guess the rules here are pretty vague. I wouldn't build this character without clearing it with my DM that grappling gave me the ability to freely reposition my enemies. This seems the sort of assumption that'll lead to disappointing game results when he rules otherwise.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
In my experience this would definitely depend on the DM. I'm in 2 games currently and I think both DMs would handle this differently.