i just watched a YouTube vide where they mention the echo are defined as objects. does that mean it could be affected by catapult? If it can how much do echoes weigh? i cant locate that stat. could i launch an echo 90ft finish out its movement by moving 30ft then swap places with the echo in the same round? could i still summon an echo? obviously catapult would take up your action. this would help my understanding of the class. thank you
I think that, functionally, the only reason an echo would be defined as an object is just to make clear that it is not a Creature and can't be targeted by any spell or ability that requires the target to be a creature. Within the actual text of the ability, it's referred to as an "Image", which I think defines it more as an illusion than anything else, but I think that term wasn't used because Illusions also have specific rules about them that it might have weird overlap with.
I think that, functionally, the only reason an echo would be defined as an object is just to make clear that it is not a Creature and can't be targeted by any spell or ability that requires the target to be a creature. Within the actual text of the ability, it's referred to as an "Image", which I think defines it more as an illusion than anything else, but I think that term wasn't used because Illusions also have specific rules about them that it might have weird overlap with.
Indeed. The actual rules do not define the echo as anything other than an image, particularly not as an object nor as a creature - abilities targeting either of the latter two shouldn't work (and an image is weightless, for whatever that's worth given that Catapult is not an option). The YouTube video may not be a reliable source here.
Even if you could Catapult the Echo - it would disappear immediately. Catapult damages the creature targetted - and the object being catapulted - and Echos have 1 hp. It would not 'survive' the experience.
Even if you could Catapult the Echo - it would disappear immediately. Catapult damages the creature targetted - and the object being catapulted - and Echos have 1 hp. It would not 'survive' the experience.
This is not correct. Catapult only damages the object being catapulted if and when that object strikes something.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
I watched Fighting Yourself by The geek pantheon which referred to a tweet by Jeremy Crawford. And yes because of this YouTube vid I’m well aware that the book does not make a clear delineation. Thus a question. But thank all for weighing in, I’ll have my sorcerer cast featherfall. No damage provoked, no foul.
Personally, if I was DM'ing I wouldn't allow this to work. For one, the Echo already has crazy mobility, to the point that it verges on being broken. The Critrole classes, on average, have contributed pretty significantly to the power creep in 5e (not that I'm necessarily complaining... I'll take a class that overdelivers on its features over one that underdelivers any day). But for another, Catapult requires any object targeted by the spell to weigh at least 1 pound. I'm sure there are arguments for or against it, but to my mind the Echo has no weight. The fact that it's described as an Image says to me that it doesn't function as like... a second person standing whereever it is, even though it does occupy its space. I think I would compare it to an Unseen Servant, which is described as a shapeless force... maybe there's some kind of energy in that area that makes it impossible to occupy that same space, but it's not the same as an object with weight.
Just sayin, wasn’t trying to be controversial, I wasn’t pulling this out of the air, he said it, so I’ll stay open to the idea of using catapult because it’s neat and I’m not looking to break the game
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
i just watched a YouTube vide where they mention the echo are defined as objects. does that mean it could be affected by catapult? If it can how much do echoes weigh? i cant locate that stat. could i launch an echo 90ft finish out its movement by moving 30ft then swap places with the echo in the same round? could i still summon an echo? obviously catapult would take up your action. this would help my understanding of the class. thank you
It is an image with 1 hp. I would rule that is weighs practically nothing. Definitely less than 1 pound. No Catapulting.
I think that, functionally, the only reason an echo would be defined as an object is just to make clear that it is not a Creature and can't be targeted by any spell or ability that requires the target to be a creature. Within the actual text of the ability, it's referred to as an "Image", which I think defines it more as an illusion than anything else, but I think that term wasn't used because Illusions also have specific rules about them that it might have weird overlap with.
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
Indeed. The actual rules do not define the echo as anything other than an image, particularly not as an object nor as a creature - abilities targeting either of the latter two shouldn't work (and an image is weightless, for whatever that's worth given that Catapult is not an option). The YouTube video may not be a reliable source here.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
Even if you could Catapult the Echo - it would disappear immediately. Catapult damages the creature targetted - and the object being catapulted - and Echos have 1 hp. It would not 'survive' the experience.
Mega Yahtzee Thread:
Highest 41: brocker2001 (#11,285).
Yahtzee of 2's: Emmber (#36,161).
Lowest 9: JoeltheWalrus (#312), Emmber (#12,505) and Dertinus (#20,953).
This is not correct. Catapult only damages the object being catapulted if and when that object strikes something.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
I watched Fighting Yourself by The geek pantheon which referred to a tweet by Jeremy Crawford. And yes because of this YouTube vid I’m well aware that the book does not make a clear delineation. Thus a question. But thank all for weighing in, I’ll have my sorcerer cast featherfall. No damage provoked, no foul.
Personally, if I was DM'ing I wouldn't allow this to work. For one, the Echo already has crazy mobility, to the point that it verges on being broken. The Critrole classes, on average, have contributed pretty significantly to the power creep in 5e (not that I'm necessarily complaining... I'll take a class that overdelivers on its features over one that underdelivers any day). But for another, Catapult requires any object targeted by the spell to weigh at least 1 pound. I'm sure there are arguments for or against it, but to my mind the Echo has no weight. The fact that it's described as an Image says to me that it doesn't function as like... a second person standing whereever it is, even though it does occupy its space. I think I would compare it to an Unseen Servant, which is described as a shapeless force... maybe there's some kind of energy in that area that makes it impossible to occupy that same space, but it's not the same as an object with weight.
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
Found the tweet. Unusual for JC not to follow strict RAW, although I suppose there's no RAW defining "objects".
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
Just sayin, wasn’t trying to be controversial, I wasn’t pulling this out of the air, he said it, so I’ll stay open to the idea of using catapult because it’s neat and I’m not looking to break the game