I don't mean D&D will go away or anything, just that it will change. Drastically. From a large community of hobbyists to just another brand to buy.
It's the death of D&D... as a real cultural thing. Because the change to D&D as a 'cultural thing' is about to go from a cultural thing to just another IP. That's what the new OGL 2.0 and WoTCs business plans mean. That's the real danger, and exactly what Chris Cocks and Co. are intent on doing. After all, it's standard legal practice for a company that makes it's money from it's IPs.
That's not Vecna. Fight me.
The new OGL 2.0 is designed to turn WoTC into a sort of Marvel comics company. I hear it's a popular corporate model, and it's all about legal ownership. Where they own an IP and they can create products that sell because of the brand. Toys, minis, and especially digital content, video games, DNDB, VTTs, and AND no one else. Period. Now, they have to make the brand popular enough one needs to sell, well, like Marvel does. Hey, good luck on betting the popularity of the new D&D movie and tv show might produce all that IP cash. And thus investors invest and make the company rich, yay! Oh but the core rules and adventures exist only to maintain the IP.
Just like Marvel comics. Because hey... No one makes a dime off comic books these days! They exist to maintain the IP copyright. That's all.
See, that business model has no room for the vast OGL community that has been organically formed over the last decades. A community that has brought a lot of value to D&D. Which we all argue adds value to D&D that this OGL and business model ignores, and thus kills D&D as a 'thing'. So, I am pissed off that WoTC just doesn't care about the community and sees them as irrelevant. And WoTC really don't, the ****s, their every PR attempt up to today's has been arrogant and pathetic.
What this means is; the new OGL 2.0 will be explicitly tied to the new 6e rules, legally. No one in the D&D community will write material for it, 6e will die no matter how good it is because of that. And thus DNDB, which will change every book you "bought" on here into the 6e rules, will change to this walled in garden too. Shame that.
Because all the 5e books I have will disappear on DNDB, and become 6e. But without the community out there doing there thing, 6e is useless to me. And thus DNDB will become irrelevant to me. So, in spite of spending hundreds of dollars on digital books and a sub here, there's no point. And yes, I'm pissed off about that!
Hey, I loved DNDBeyond. Meant a lot to me. But I can just keep with the library of 5e books I have now. Or Pathfin... *stabbed and poisoned* ... I rolled a Save of 4. lol
My biggest concern is Dndbeyond right now. It's easy enough to pick up any good ttrpg system and "play DnD" with your friends, but dndbeyond makes keeping track of everything so much easier.
Eventually someone will have a competitive product though.
I've been saying it for a while now: D&D 5e has been riding high on a series of fortunate waves that cannot be replicated (in one case hope isn't replicated); the ascension of "geek sheik" in pop culture, the publication of Stranger Things, the massive success of Critical Role, unprecedented third party support, and of course the global pandemic. A significant contraction was going to happen eventually... I didn't even start to predict it would come by WOTC's own hand though.
I've been saying it for a while now: D&D 5e has been riding high on a series of fortunate waves that cannot be replicated (in one case hope isn't replicated); the ascension of "geek sheik" in pop culture, the publication of Stranger Things, the massive success of Critical Role, unprecedented third party support, and of course the global pandemic. A significant contraction was going to happen eventually... I didn't even start to predict it would come by WOTC's own hand though.
Yes, well said. And hey, let's not forget Chris Cocks looked really great as D&D made big gains during the pandemics first years. Can't predict a pandemic, last I looked. So, totally agree, D&D has been on a roll!
WotC is a business, I never expected anything more from them, now I know all the so called "creators" are too. None over them have my respect any more, and that above all is what has tainted DnD for me.
My biggest concern is Dndbeyond right now. It's easy enough to pick up any good ttrpg system and "play DnD" with your friends, but dndbeyond makes keeping track of everything so much easier.
Eventually someone will have a competitive product though.
They've been working on a Pathfinder version of it for a while now, called Pathfinder Nexus, which I personally can't wait for.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Cancelled my Master Tier Subscription because of OGL 1.1
I've got in on DND late, and the online atmosphere is how I play with all my friends. Beyond was a lifesaver, the accessibility and ease of use. I will admit being a crit role baby, coming in thanks to them and I've gotten myself a fun little group that we take turns dming and playing. Now with all these recent stuff going on with the OGL, I will say this.
Firstly, I cannot blame WOTC and Hasbro for thinking profits ahead of anything, they -are- a business. I can respect that money speaks more to them than us. However, at the very same time, I can sit back and just laugh at the audacity. One, to think this would even work and Two, to claim this was their plan all along. As one of the twitter responded pointed out, it's utterly petulant and out of touch, to the point of a Saturday morning cartoon villainy.
I'm already looking for alternatives for my group, Hasbro/WOTC can continue to, as they should, to seek profit at all cost, I'm sure it won't be pretty for them.
Hasbro is actually doing quite well in the last month /days on the stock markets. It seams like investors do not care about a minor upset in customer satisfaction.
WotC declared D&D is a lifestyle brand, much like Marvel did (and others I'm sure). As the OP indicated, Marvel comic books does not bring in the money, it exists in order to make money based on its IP. WotC thinks D&D can do the same. There is a ton of stuff for Marvel out there to consume, but what utlimately was diminished was the quality of the comic book, much to the dismay of comic book fans. Hopefully, D&D (the actual game) won't suffer a steep decline in quality as WotC continues to spread it into a lifestyle brand.
Well, that's not entirely true. One of the reasons for the existence of the OGL is that WoTC intended to fill D&D content with the contributions of third parties. And success was resounding. In the 2000s they took over the market in a brutal way.
With 5e D&D it has grown a lot, and for many reasons. And it generates more profit than ever. But in the 2000s everything, absolutely everything, regardless of the system it had, was also published for D20.
Thus the phrase "unprecedented third party support" cannot be considered true. It is true that with 5e a lot of third-party material has come out, but that had already happened with 3e and the birth of the OGL.
thing is, the OGL came into being to HELP the big daddy corporate owner of D&D make money. D&D corporate was LOSING MONEY creating the panoply of content needed to have a vibrant and growing TTRPG community. The OGL let big daddy corporate focus on the things that make bank and do them well, while smaller companies under the OGL are making the shiny things that make the community thrive and grow and be there to purchase the big money making projects from corporate central that show those bottom line results.
D&D makes money when third party creators are THRIVING. And doesnt when "OFFICIAL D&D CORPORATE" is the only game in town.
This attempt to crack down on the community is BAD for Hasbro's chances of continuing to make money.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
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I don't mean D&D will go away or anything, just that it will change. Drastically. From a large community of hobbyists to just another brand to buy.
It's the death of D&D... as a real cultural thing. Because the change to D&D as a 'cultural thing' is about to go from a cultural thing to just another IP. That's what the new OGL 2.0 and WoTCs business plans mean. That's the real danger, and exactly what Chris Cocks and Co. are intent on doing. After all, it's standard legal practice for a company that makes it's money from it's IPs.
That's not Vecna. Fight me.
The new OGL 2.0 is designed to turn WoTC into a sort of Marvel comics company. I hear it's a popular corporate model, and it's all about legal ownership. Where they own an IP and they can create products that sell because of the brand. Toys, minis, and especially digital content, video games, DNDB, VTTs, and AND no one else. Period. Now, they have to make the brand popular enough one needs to sell, well, like Marvel does. Hey, good luck on betting the popularity of the new D&D movie and tv show might produce all that IP cash. And thus investors invest and make the company rich, yay! Oh but the core rules and adventures exist only to maintain the IP.
Just like Marvel comics. Because hey... No one makes a dime off comic books these days! They exist to maintain the IP copyright. That's all.
See, that business model has no room for the vast OGL community that has been organically formed over the last decades. A community that has brought a lot of value to D&D. Which we all argue adds value to D&D that this OGL and business model ignores, and thus kills D&D as a 'thing'. So, I am pissed off that WoTC just doesn't care about the community and sees them as irrelevant. And WoTC really don't, the ****s, their every PR attempt up to today's has been arrogant and pathetic.
What this means is; the new OGL 2.0 will be explicitly tied to the new 6e rules, legally. No one in the D&D community will write material for it, 6e will die no matter how good it is because of that. And thus DNDB, which will change every book you "bought" on here into the 6e rules, will change to this walled in garden too. Shame that.
Because all the 5e books I have will disappear on DNDB, and become 6e. But without the community out there doing there thing, 6e is useless to me. And thus DNDB will become irrelevant to me. So, in spite of spending hundreds of dollars on digital books and a sub here, there's no point. And yes, I'm pissed off about that!
Hey, I loved DNDBeyond. Meant a lot to me. But I can just keep with the library of 5e books I have now. Or Pathfin... *stabbed and poisoned* ... I rolled a Save of 4. lol
My biggest concern is Dndbeyond right now. It's easy enough to pick up any good ttrpg system and "play DnD" with your friends, but dndbeyond makes keeping track of everything so much easier.
Eventually someone will have a competitive product though.
Foundry VTT is leaps and bounds better than. this website. Plus it's only one time fee of $50!
There were competitive products before. They took a cease and desist from WotC to leave a clear field to DnDBeyond xD
I Cancelled my Master Tier Subscription January 12th 2023 because of "OGL" 1.1
#OpenDnD
I've been saying it for a while now: D&D 5e has been riding high on a series of fortunate waves that cannot be replicated (in one case hope isn't replicated); the ascension of "geek sheik" in pop culture, the publication of Stranger Things, the massive success of Critical Role, unprecedented third party support, and of course the global pandemic. A significant contraction was going to happen eventually... I didn't even start to predict it would come by WOTC's own hand though.
Solution: buy physically. Ideally from local game stores.
[REDACTED]
Yes, well said. And hey, let's not forget Chris Cocks looked really great as D&D made big gains during the pandemics first years. Can't predict a pandemic, last I looked. So, totally agree, D&D has been on a roll!
Shame to throw it away ... and roll that die.
Failed their death save.
The journalist who first broke the leaked document has posted another story. The death spiral continues...
https://gizmodo.com/dungeons-dragons-ogl-license-wizards-of-the-coast-wotc-1849985196
Another interesting article from CNBC: https://www.cnbc.com/2023/01/13/hasbro-delays-new-dungeons-dragons-licensing-rules.html
D&D won't die, but the brand was dealt a critical hit. Wotc roll for damage.
WoTC; roll a Save... with Disadvantage.
They rolled a 1, that's two death saves. Here comes an ORC to behead them while they flounder.
WotC is a business, I never expected anything more from them, now I know all the so called "creators" are too. None over them have my respect any more, and that above all is what has tainted DnD for me.
They've been working on a Pathfinder version of it for a while now, called Pathfinder Nexus, which I personally can't wait for.
Cancelled my Master Tier Subscription because of OGL 1.1
I've got in on DND late, and the online atmosphere is how I play with all my friends. Beyond was a lifesaver, the accessibility and ease of use. I will admit being a crit role baby, coming in thanks to them and I've gotten myself a fun little group that we take turns dming and playing. Now with all these recent stuff going on with the OGL, I will say this.
Firstly, I cannot blame WOTC and Hasbro for thinking profits ahead of anything, they -are- a business. I can respect that money speaks more to them than us. However, at the very same time, I can sit back and just laugh at the audacity. One, to think this would even work and Two, to claim this was their plan all along. As one of the twitter responded pointed out, it's utterly petulant and out of touch, to the point of a Saturday morning cartoon villainy.
I'm already looking for alternatives for my group, Hasbro/WOTC can continue to, as they should, to seek profit at all cost, I'm sure it won't be pretty for them.
Hasbro is actually doing quite well in the last month /days on the stock markets. It seams like investors do not care about a minor upset in customer satisfaction.
Attack: [roll]3d20dl2+6[/roll] Damage: [roll](if([roll:-1:critical], =0, 1d8, 2{1d8}.expand()))+4[/roll] Sneakattack: [roll](if([roll:-2:critical], =0, 2d6, 2{2d6}.expand()))[/roll]WotC declared D&D is a lifestyle brand, much like Marvel did (and others I'm sure). As the OP indicated, Marvel comic books does not bring in the money, it exists in order to make money based on its IP. WotC thinks D&D can do the same. There is a ton of stuff for Marvel out there to consume, but what utlimately was diminished was the quality of the comic book, much to the dismay of comic book fans. Hopefully, D&D (the actual game) won't suffer a steep decline in quality as WotC continues to spread it into a lifestyle brand.
Well, that's not entirely true. One of the reasons for the existence of the OGL is that WoTC intended to fill D&D content with the contributions of third parties. And success was resounding. In the 2000s they took over the market in a brutal way.
With 5e D&D it has grown a lot, and for many reasons. And it generates more profit than ever. But in the 2000s everything, absolutely everything, regardless of the system it had, was also published for D20.
Thus the phrase "unprecedented third party support" cannot be considered true. It is true that with 5e a lot of third-party material has come out, but that had already happened with 3e and the birth of the OGL.
Hence why people should be buying from them.
[REDACTED]
thing is, the OGL came into being to HELP the big daddy corporate owner of D&D make money. D&D corporate was LOSING MONEY creating the panoply of content needed to have a vibrant and growing TTRPG community. The OGL let big daddy corporate focus on the things that make bank and do them well, while smaller companies under the OGL are making the shiny things that make the community thrive and grow and be there to purchase the big money making projects from corporate central that show those bottom line results.
D&D makes money when third party creators are THRIVING. And doesnt when "OFFICIAL D&D CORPORATE" is the only game in town.
This attempt to crack down on the community is BAD for Hasbro's chances of continuing to make money.